Ubers Lugia

[OVERVIEW]

* Lugia's typing grants it an immunity to Ground-type moves and a resistance to Psychic-type moves, which in conjunction with fantastic bulk and a useful ability in Multiscale allows it to check a multitude of attackers, such as Mega Salamence, Primal Groudon, Arceus-Ground, Deoxys-A, and Mewtwo.
* Lugia has a good matchup against offense teams, being able to phaze, status, or KO common attackers such as Mega Salamence, Extreme Killer Arceus, and Xerneas.
* A decent Speed tier allows Lugia to outspeed slower attackers such as Primal Groudon and most Ho-Oh variants, which is helpful in situations where Lugia will need to Roost or Toxic stall these foes.
* It is susceptible to Toxic, which breaks Multiscale and ruins its ability to continuously switch into threats.
* The introduction of Lunala gives Lugia another threat to worry about in the metagame due to Lunala's prominence on offense, a playstyle Lugia usually does well against.
* It is weak to increasingly prominent Dark-types, such as Yveltal and Arceus-Dark.
* Poor offensive stats leave it with little offensive presence, meaning it is deadweight against stall and is easily checked or walled by Pokemon that are not vulnerable to being worn down by Toxic, such as Ferrothorn and Kyogre.
* Lugia needs solid anti-hazard support to adequately check threats.
* It is vulnerable to being trapped by Mega Gengar, which takes little damage from Ice Beam and can status or heavily damage Lugia in return.

[SET]
name: Wall
move 1: Roost
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Whirlwind
move 4: Ice Beam / Substitute
item: Leftovers
ability: Multiscale
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Roost gives Lugia reliable recovery, helping it maintain longevity.
* Toxic puts a timer on Pokemon that are not immune to it, severely hindering offensive teams.
* Whirlwind phazes setup sweepers such as Extreme Killer Arceus, Xerneas, and Mega Salamence.
* Ice beam hits Mega Salamence and Zygarde-C super effectively.
* Substitute allows Lugia to avoid status and utility moves such as Leech Seed, which aids with its walling capabilities by giving it more breathing room when Toxic stalling foes. However, this leaves Lugia as complete Taunt bait and unable to touch Pokemon that are unfazed by Toxic.
* Alternatively, Psychic can be used for a more powerful STAB move and the ability to hit Mega Lucario, preventing it from freely setting up.

Set Details
========

* Maximum HP investment allows Lugia's HP to be divisible by 16, which grants it 25% of its HP after four turns of Leftovers and thus makes it easier to continue using Substitute.
* The Defense investment with a Bold nature enables Lugia to check a multitude of physical attackers, giving it a good chance to avoid the KO from Adamant +2 Arceus-Normal's Shadow Claw, +2 Arceus-Ground's Stone Edge, and +1 Mega Salamence's Double Edge after Stealth Rock.
* The Speed investment allows it to outspeed everything up to neutral-natured base 90s.
* The Speed EVs can alternatively be shifted to Special Defense to allow Lugia to tank hits more easily.

Usage Tips
========

* If Stealth Rock is not up, Lugia can switch in liberally on more or less any non-boosted physical attacker.
* Make sure to remove Stealth Rock before bringing Lugia in on a powerful hit such as Mega Salamence's Double Edge, as it has a chance to 2HKO Lugia without its Multiscale intact.
* Try to poison unboosted setup sweepers or powerful attackers, such as Xerneas and Swords Dance Arceus formes, with Toxic and proceed to Roost stall.
* On the other hand, if facing boosted setup sweepers that are able to 2HKO Lugia through Multiscale, such as +2 Xerneas, phaze them and use Roost on something that does not threaten Lugia.
* Avoid status, especially poison, as it breaks Multiscale and can quickly wear Lugia down, making it unable to continuously use Roost.
* Keep Lugia as healthy as possible to keep its Multiscale intact. Ideally, it should be at full each time it switches out.
* If Lugia is statused, try to heal it with a cleric before switching it back in.

Team Options
========

* Partners to remove or discourage entry hazards are mandatory. Support Arceus formes, Giratina-O, Mega Salamence, and Mega Sableye can all fill this role.
* Status absorbers or clerics can mitigate the effect of status on Lugia. Examples include Chansey, Clefable, defensive Primal Kyogre, and Zygarde-C. Chansey can also take on Lunala and Darkrai, and Clefable can check Yveltal.
* Alolan Muk is able to cover Lugia's crippling weakness to Dark- and Ghost-types, notably Pursuit trapping Lunala and Mega Gengar. Lugia in return is able to cover Alolan Muk's unimpressive physical bulk.
* Arceus-Dark and Yveltal can deal with Arceus-Ghost, one of the only offensive Arceus formes Lugia is unable to effectively deal with.
* Pokemon that are vulnerable to certain setup sweepers, such as support Arceus formes, Alolan Muk, Zygarde-C, and Solgaleo, appreciate Lugia's ability to phaze them.
* Frailer attackers or Pokemon without reliable recovery such as Ho-Oh, Giratina-O, and Primal Groudon appreciate Lugia's ability to switch into Pokemon that can otherwise severely weaken them and potentially prevent them from accomplishing their purpose.
* Klefki and Ferrothorn are able to set Spikes to make Lugia's phazing more effective.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Dragon Tail deals a small amount of damage and can be used as an alternative to Whirlwind, but it has a small chance to miss and leaves Lugia unable to deal with Geomancy Xerneas.
* An offensive Calm Mind set with Flyinium Z can be used to surprise opponents and net a KO here and there, but this detracts largely from Lugia's defensive capabilities.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Steel-types**: Steel-types, such as Klefki, Solgaleo, Mega Scizor, and Ferrothorn easily wall Lugia and can set entry hazards on it or status it. Mega Lucario can set up on Lugia and beat it one-on-one.

**Mega Gengar**: Mega Gengar takes little from Ice Beam and can trap and eliminate Lugia, giving the opposing team a much better chance to sweep late-game.

**Mega Sableye**: Mega Sableye is able to bounce back Toxic and takes little from Ice Beam while wearing down Lugia with status in return.

**Dark- and Ghost-types**: Dark- and Ghost-types, notably Lunala, Darkrai, Arceus-Ghost, Yveltal, and Arceus-Dark, can hit Lugia super effectively and easily take it on one-on-one it if Stealth Rock is up. However, Swords Dance Arceus-Ghost can be Roost stalled if it switches into Toxic, and Yveltal loses to Lugia one-on-one if it comes in on a Toxic or is slower than Lugia. Alolan Muk is immune to Toxic and can cripple Lugia with Knock Off or a Toxic of its own.

**Status Users**: Pokemon that carry status moves, especially Toxic, are able to cripple Lugia, removing its effectiveness against strong attackers.

**Ingrain Geomany Xerneas**: Ingrain Geomancy Xerneas cannot be phazed by Whirlwind, can heal off status with Rest, and uses Lugia as setup fodder.

**Ice- and Electric-types**: Ice- and Electric-types can both hit Lugia super effectively. Arceus-Ice and Arceus-Electric are able to set up on Lugia with Calm Mind, although they do not appreciate Toxic if not carrying Refresh. Kyurem-W and Zekrom are both able to KO Lugia through Multiscale with their abilities, and Tapu Koko can Taunt Lugia to prevent it from recovering or using Toxic and whittle it down with Thunderbolt or Nature's Madness.
 
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Has the 120 Def / 136 Spe spread of ORAS fallen off in favor of a bulkier spread, or is it simply not an urgent speed to hit anymore?
 
can't Aeroblast be used over Psychic? It is more powerful and also hits Mega Lucario quite hard
While Psychic isn't the greatest attacking type in Ubers, Flying isn't all that great either, and when talking about Lugia's Aeroblast, it's much worse for it than Psychic and Ice Beam. With only 8 PP and a chance to miss, it can be easily PP-stalled, especially by the many Pressure mons in the tier, such as Dialga, Palkia, Giratina-A, Mewtwo and any of the Deoxys formes. Once your PP is up, you're huge Taunt bait.

Aeroblast also hits next to nothing that is relevant in Ubers for super effective damage. Funnily enough, Flying is strong against two types that are already covered by Ice Beam (vs Grass types such as Shaymin-Sky and Grassceus) and Psychic (vs Fighting types such as Blaziken, Buzzwole and Pheromosa), and both of those have better applications than Aeroblast.

As a bonus for Psychic, it also hits Mega Gengar for super effective damage, and it does a surprising amount:

0 SpA Lugia Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Gengar: 186-218 (71.2 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As for Psychic vs Aeroblast against Mega Luke, the difference in power is about 5%. Not worth it tbh:

0 SpA Lugia Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Lucario: 118-141 (41.9 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

0 SpA Lugia Aeroblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Lucario: 132-156 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
 
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shrang

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CM Z-Aeroblast Lugia in OO would be cool. It's actually surprisingly strong at +1 - you OHKO standard Yveltal from 100% most of the time, making a really nice lure. With Multiscale, you can clutch a bunch of sweepers like Mega Mence and Ekiller by whacking a huge hole in them. Fits on offensive teams that have like Rapid Spin lead + Lunala.
 
Overview: in general very vauge

* excellent bulk combined with a fantastic ability in multiscale allows it to tank a variety of physical and special attacks, making it relatively easy to fit on bulky offense and stall

be more specific regarding what it can check

* good matchup vs offense, being able to phaze out, status or ko common attackers such as mence, ekiller, and xern, esp with darkrai's reduced potency

this is more specific but I'd avoid mentioning darkrai (because comparing to past metas is generally not good).

* typing grants it a ground immnuity and a resistance to psychic-types, allowing it to check the likes of pdon, groundceus, deo-a, mewtwo, and tapu lele lacking taunt

ok now I'm confused as to why your first bullet point is even needed, just remove that tbh.

* decent speed tier allows it to outspeed slower attackers such as pdon and xern, which is helpful in situations where lugia will need to roost/toxic stall

ok

* susceptible to status, especially poison

probably just poison at this rate in specific so just say toxic is a problem.

* introduction of sumo cover legends does not help its viability

you can't word it like this, if it has problems with lunala (because I don't see how solgaleo is a problem for any team lugia would be on) then you should just write that.

* weakness to increasingly prominent dark-types

Which are? lugia isn't exactly darkceus bait but yveltal is an issue I agree.

* poor offensive stats leaves it with little offensive pressure

which consequently leads to???? not having offensive presence in itself doesn't matter, it's what happens surrounding that lack of offensive presence that matters. Is it that things can set up on it? No, it is that things that are immune to toxic and does not rely on attacks to break through easily handle lugia. It also means lugia can't do anything to stall.

* weakness to sr leaves it in need of reliable hazard removal, a problem compounded by the lati nerf

skip the lati thing it doesn't even make sense as there was no lati+lugia team of calibre last gen. Word it in terms of "in order to fully check threats, it needs anti hazard support).

gengar needs to be mentioned in this part.

Set:

Sub slashed with ice beam. Psychic to moves.

Regarding 252 hp you can mention it is divisible by 16 meaning it's also divisible by 4, lugia regains exactly 25 % from 4 turns of leftovers and is thus able to sub more efficiently. People who run 248 hp aren't very clever so you should make sure 252 hp comes off as important.

CC:

How can ingrain geoxern which is also ready a fat gimick be above gengar? Just remove xerneas from this part. Put in msab at the top.
 
I'd add Kyurem-W to C&C, as its Turboblaze doesn't care about Multiscale and it can deal a lot of damage with Ice Beam.
 
CM Z-Aeroblast Lugia in OO would be cool. It's actually surprisingly strong at +1 - you OHKO standard Yveltal from 100% most of the time, making a really nice lure. With Multiscale, you can clutch a bunch of sweepers like Mega Mence and Ekiller by whacking a huge hole in them. Fits on offensive teams that have like Rapid Spin lead + Lunala.
So I tried this set, and it's actually kinda fun.

Replays:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-530508996 (had Roost over Earth Power at the time, then I switched it to EP after this since Steels like Magearna were starting to get annoying and it chunks Pdon a lot harder)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-530545980 (also changed some of my teammates. replaced Yveltal and Megagar for scarf Lunala and specs xern. it's been working much better since).

While it didn't get to do as much as I wanted it to do the first game, it still killed Lunala which would have been a pain late-game for Pdon. The second match was an outright sweep for Lugia, and demonstrates how strong a +1 SS can be coming from Lugia, of all things. Admittedly, it's not its best set at all and Mega Mence could fill this slot a lot better, but it can catch a lot of players off-guard, especially when they bring in mons like Waterceus and see it just die to SS when it's in range.

It's, imo, a worthy entry as an OO: can catch foes off-guard, but it requires extensive support (hazard removal and mons like MegaGar/Yveltal/Lunala/ect dead) and there are much better sweepers out there.

Set I used:

Lugia @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Aeroblast
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power/Roost

There's probably a better EV spread out there, but I wanted this to at least outpace Jolly Ray and bulkier, un-boosted Mega Mence builds so I could OHKO with Ice Beam as well as outpacing the Primals, neutral Xerneas/Yveltal and Modest Palkia. Also, it needs to be as strong as possible, as base 90 SpA is mediocre at best.
 
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Fireburn

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Alolan Muk needs greater emphasis here. It's one of Lugia's best partners if not THE best partner it has for getting rid of those pesky Ghost-types with Pursuit, especially Gengar, and Lugia covers its general weakness to physical mons, You can also add Alolan-Muk as a check since it cant be poisoned and has Knock Off + Poison Touch to cripple Lugia's walling ability.

Tapu Lele in Ubers is pretty much always going to have Taunt so you can likely just take that out of the overview.

Klefki and Ferrothorn are good teammates for Spikes to make Lugia's phazing more potent. Clefable should be mentioned as a cleric since it can check Yveltal.

Mega Lucario can be mentioned as a check - Lugia can't beat it in a last mon scenario.

QC 1/3
 
Mega Absol can also be a threat to any Lugia trying to run the wall set up due to its magic bounce and lugia's lack of offensive moves with that set in addition it outspeed meaning even if it attempts to whirlwind it will land at least one hit and it could cripple lugia with a stab dark pulse especially if it flinches
 
Mega Absol can also be a threat to any Lugia trying to run the wall set up due to its magic bounce and lugia's lack of offensive moves with that set in addition it outspeed meaning even if it attempts to whirlwind it will land at least one hit and it could cripple lugia with a stab dark pulse especially if it flinches
Mega Absol is not viable in ubers in any way, as it is greatly outclassed by the dark-types viable in the tier.
 

Lemonade

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* try to poison unboosted setup sweepers or powerful attackers with toxic and proceed to roost stall

Add examples for this.
 
ya, make sure the added examples extends across the usage tips because i see more notes without clarification. the z-move set can probably see a mention in other options. z-geo could probably get bumped up in c&c a spot, actual ice/elec mons are pretty rare, its mostly coverage that does it whereas z-geo xern (or just ingrain xern in general) is annoying as hell.

QC 2/3
 

Minority

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decent speed tier allows it to outspeed slower attackers such as pdon and xern, which is helpful in situations where lugia will need to roost/toxic stall
I don't think this is very applicable to Xern, especially when the main spread is slower than Specs / Scarf Xern and Geo Xern is something you just Whirl. I'd pick a different example to use here.

Most of everything else seems okay.


QC: 3/3
 

Lumari

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remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 1/1
[OVERVIEW]

* Lugia's typing grants it an immunity to Ground-type moves and a resistance to Psychic-type moves, which in conjunction with fantastic bulk and a useful ability in Multiscale allows it to check a multitude of attackers, such as Mega Salamence, Primal Groudon, Arceus-Ground, Deoxys-A, and Mewtwo.
* Lugia has a good matchup against offense teams, being able to phaze, status, (AC) or KO common attackers such as Mega Salamence, Extreme Killer Arceus, and Xerneas.
* A decent Speed tier allows Lugia to outspeed slower attackers such as Primal Groudon and most Ho-Oh variants, which is helpful in situations where Lugia will need to Roost or Toxic stall these foes.
* It is susceptible to Toxic, which breaks Multiscale and ruins its ability to continuously switch into threats.
* The introduction of Lunala gives Lugia another threat to worry about in the metagame. (the way you phrased it this applies to literally all Ubers though, why is this one significant?)
* It is weak to increasingly prominent Dark-types, such as Yveltal and Arceus-Dark.
* Poor offensive stats leave it with little offensive presence, meaning it is deadweight against stall and is easily checked or walled by Pokemon that are not vulnerable to being worn down by Toxic, such as Ferrothorn and Kyogre.
* Lugia needs solid anti-hazard support to adequately check threats.
* It is vulnerable to being trapped by Mega Gengar, which takes little damage from Ice Beam and can status or heavily damage Lugia in return.

[SET]
name: Wall
move 1: Roost
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Whirlwind
move 4: Ice Beam / Substitute
item: Leftovers
ability: Multiscale
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Roost gives Lugia reliable recovery, helping it maintain longevity.
* Toxic puts a timer on Pokemon that are not immune to it, severely hindering offensive teams.
* Whirlwind phazes setup sweepers such as Extreme Killer Arceus, Xerneas, and Mega Salamence.
* Ice beam hits Mega Salamence and Zygarde-C super effectively.
* Substitute allows Lugia to avoid status and utility moves such as Leech Seed, which aids with its walling capabilities by giving it more breathing room when Toxic stalling foes. However, this leaves Lugia as complete Taunt bait and unable to touch Pokemon that are unfazed by Toxic.
* Alternatively, (AC) Psychic can be used for a more powerful STAB move and the ability to hit Mega Lucario, preventing it from freely setting up.

Set Details
========

* Maximum HP investment allows Lugia's HP to be divisible by 4 16, (being divisible by 4 doesn't guarantee this, investment is correct though) which grants it 25% of its HP after four turns of Leftovers and thus makes it easier to use continue using) Substitute.
* The Defense investment with a Bold nature enables Lugia to check a multitude of physical attackers, giving it a good chance to avoid the KO from Adamant +2 Arceus-Normal's Shadow Claw, +2 Arceus-Ground's Stone Edge, and +1 Mega Salamence's Double Edge after Stealth Rock.
* The Speed investment allows it to outspeed everything up to neutral-natured base 90s.
* The Speed EVs can alternatively be shifted to Special Defense to allow Lugia to tank hits easier more easily.

Usage Tips
========

* If Stealth Rock is not up, Lugia can switch in liberally on more or less any non-boosted physical attacker.
* Make sure to remove Stealth Rock before bringing Lugia in on a powerful hit such as Mega Salamence's Double Edge, as it has a chance to 2HKO Lugia without its Multiscale intact.
* Try to poison unboosted setup sweepers or powerful attackers, such as Xerneas and Swords Dance Arceus formes, with Toxic and proceed to Roost stall.
* On the other hand, if facing boosted setup sweepers that are able to 2HKO Lugia through Multiscale, such as +2 Xerneas, phaze them out and use Roost on something that does not threaten Lugia.
* Avoid status, especially poison, as it breaks Multiscale and can quickly wear Lugia down, making it unable to continuously use Roost.
* Keep Lugia as healthy as possible to keep its Multiscale intact. Ideally, it should be at full each time it switches out.
* If Lugia is statused, try to heal it with a cleric before switching it back in.

Team Options
========

* Partners to remove or discourage entry hazards are mandatory. Support Arceus formes, Giratina-O, Mega Salamence, and Mega Sableye can all fill this role.
* Status absorbers or clerics can mitigate the effect of status on Lugia. Examples include Chansey, Clefable, defensive Primal Kyogre, and Zygarde-C. Chansey can also take on Lunala and Darkrai, and Clefable can check Yveltal.
* Alolan Muk is able to cover Lugia's crippling weakness to Dark- and Ghost-types, notably Pursuit trapping Lunala and Mega Gengar. Lugia in return is able to cover Alolan Muk's unimpressive physical bulk.
* Arceus-Dark and Yveltal can deal with Arceus-Ghost, one of the only offensive Arceus formes Lugia is unable to effectively deal with.
* Pokemon that are vulnerable to certain setup sweepers, such as support Arceus formes, Alolan Muk, Zygarde-C, and Solgaleo, appreciate Lugia's ability to phaze them out.
* Frailer attackers or Pokemon without reliable recovery (RC) such as Ho-Oh, Giratina-O, and Primal Groudon appreciate Lugia's ability to switch into Pokemon that can otherwise severely weaken them and potentially prevent them from accomplishing their purpose.
* Klefki and Ferrothorn are able to set Spikes to make Lugia's phazing more effective.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Dragon Tail deals a small amount of damage and can be used as an alternative to Whirlwind, but it has a small chance to miss and leaves Lugia unable to deal with Geomancy Xerneas.
* An offensive Calm Mind set with Flyinium Z can be used to surprise opponents and net a KO here and there, but this detracts largely from Lugia's defensive capabilities.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Steel-types**: Steel-types, such as Klefki, Solgaleo, Mega Scizor, and Ferrothorn easily wall Lugia and can set entry hazards on it or status it. Mega Lucario can set up on Lugia and beat it 1v1 one-on-one.

**Mega Gengar**: Mega Gengar takes little from Ice Beam and can trap and eliminate Lugia, giving the opposing team a much better chance to sweep late-game. (AH)

**Mega Sableye**: Mega Sableye is able to bounce back Toxic and takes little from Ice Beam (RC) while being able to wear wearing down Lugia with status in return.

**Dark- and Ghost-types**: Dark- and Ghost-types, notably Lunala, Darkrai, Arceus-Ghost, Yveltal, and Arceus-Dark, can hit Lugia super effectively and easily 1v1 it take it on one-on-one if Stealth Rock is up. However, Swords Dance Arceus-Ghost can be Roost stalled if it switches into Toxic, and Yveltal loses to Lugia one-on-one (AH) if it comes in on a Toxic or is slower than Lugia. Alolan Muk is immune to Toxic and can cripple Lugia with Knock Off or a Toxic of its own.

**Status Users**: Pokemon that carry status moves, especially Toxic, are able to poison cripple Lugia, removing its effectiveness against strong attackers.

**Ingrain Geomany Xerneas**: Ingrain Geomancy Xerneas cannot be phazed by Whirlwind, can heal off status with Rest, and uses Lugia as setup fodder.

**Ice- and Electric-types**: Ice- and Electric-types can both hit Lugia super effectively. Arceus-Ice and Arceus-Electric are able to setup set up on Lugia with Calm Mind, although they do not appreciate Toxic if not carrying Refresh. Kyurem-W and Zekrom are both able to KO Lugia through Multiscale with their abilities, and Tapu Koko can Taunt Lugia to prevent it from recovering or using Toxic and whittle it down with Thunderbolt or Nature's Madness.
 
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