(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[QuentinQuonce]

What other parallels are there? Honestly curious

I was mainly thinking about how Kanto and Sinnoh both - initially - have a Pokedex of 151 Pokemon (I've always thought that the Sinnoh dex in DP was made this number as an intentional callback to the Kanto dex) and how the level spread of opponents in Kanto and Sinnoh is broadly similar: the first gym leader has their team at level 12/14, going up to the final gym leader at level 50 while the Elite Four start off in their early/mid-50s and cap out in the mid-60s. Just a small thing I noticed since Hoenn and Johto are quite similar on the second point, too, with both their final gyms capping out at 40/early 40s while their Elite Four go from the 40s to the 50s (though Hoenn is a little ahead of Johto in this regard, starting at 46 and ending at 58 while Johto starts at 40 and ends at 50).

 

[Leif98]

The meloetta post by QuentinQuonce in the other thread made me realize once again how much I dislike battle-only form changes.

I can tolerate castform (since the stats are the real issue here) and Minior, but Cherrim, both Darmanitans and Meloetta annoy me to no end, because they waste cool designs and what would be additional intersting mons by being bad both ingame and in competetive.
Meloetta has to run a suboptimal special move to change into a physical-oriented form, and poor Darmanitan goes from a fast and frail physical attacker to a bulky and slow special attacker...when under half health. Did they expect you to run a half physical and half special moveset for a thing that will probably not activate anyway because Darmanitan has paper defenses? Not to mention when it does activate it probably dies anyway because it has 55 Base Speed.
Galar version fares a bit better but in that case the stats are super similar and the typing is the only unique thing (and why run Zen Mode when you can have a free Choice Band?)

If these were permanent form changes you'd have some cool stuff to play around with. I doubt Zen Mode Darmanitan would be any good but it seems fun to use ingame if it wasn't so cumbersome to use. Zen Mode being a post game thing in BW felt laughable since it is a complete downgrade

 

[R_N]

If I had a nickle for every time a weird mid-battle form change clashed with battle design, i'd probably have several nickles but it's weird it happened twice in the same generation.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Cherrim is an especially annoying one since, even despite the fact that you HAVE to see one at some point in DPP because every Pokemon in the Sinnoh Dex bar Unown is used by an NPC, I can never once recall seeing the Sunshine Form in-game. Gardenia uses one in rematches in Platinum but other than that the only NPC who has one, iirc, is a girl in Iron Island - I assume it knows Sunny Day given its level, but I've presumably always beaten it too quickly to find out.

Outside of that I think a couple of foes make use of it in PBR and I occasionally see it in Pokemon Go, but that's about it. And the way Pokemon Go handles Cherrim is also crap - Overcast is generally the default form when there's non-sunny weather, so you'd be forgiven for assuming that Cherubi can be evolved into Sunshine Form when the weather's sunny, the way it works for Goodra in rain. No such luck. It's apparently just completely random.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I was mainly thinking about how Kanto and Sinnoh both - initially - have a Pokedex of 151 Pokemon (I've always thought that the Sinnoh dex in DP was made this number as an intentional callback to the Kanto dex) and how the level spread of opponents in Kanto and Sinnoh is broadly similar: the first gym leader has their team at level 12/14, going up to the final gym leader at level 50 while the Elite Four start off in their early/mid-50s and cap out in the mid-60s. Just a small thing I noticed since Hoenn and Johto are quite similar on the second point, too, with both their final gyms capping out at 40/early 40s while their Elite Four go from the 40s to the 50s (though Hoenn is a little ahead of Johto in this regard, starting at 46 and ending at 58 while Johto starts at 40 and ends at 50).

You know, this is actually true. The Elite Four levels of both, at least in DP, are also similar and progress in the same way with each Elite Four being two levels higher and then the Champion is three levels higher.

The only difference is DP Sinnoh's E4+Cynthia levels of their aces at least are exactly one level higher than the aces of RB Kanto's E4+Blue.

RGB Elite Four

DP Sinnoh Elite Four

That's in addition to the level curves of the Gym Leaders being relatively similar too yeah, not to mention the first Gym is Rock and the second is a starter type with a very strong fully evolved Pokemon as the ace (Starmie or Roserade).

There are a few other parallels out there too. Namely Barry's team composition mirroring Blue's, using a FWG core including his starter and having two of three set Pokemon based on that, and always leading with the regional bird (Barry's Staraptor and Blue's Pidgeot). Staraptor itself was the first regional bird to actually closely follow Pidgeot's design ethos from a gameplay standpoint.

Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf are also met at Level 50 like Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres and pretty late into the game, and then both RGB and DP also unlock post-game dungeons that have you meet a Level 70 Legendary (Cerulean Cave's Mewtwo vs Turnback Cave+Stark Mountain Giratina+Heatran) after you beat the Champion.

I could go on and on there but there's seemingly a lot of mirrors between Sinnoh and Kanto in all sorts of places.

While not expressly a parallel there was one reference in DPP of some guard at a gate claiming to be thirsty which is an obvious shoutout to the Saffron guards.

The Kanto references actually run pretty deep and even earlier than most think, looking at it. Kanto's influence shows itself a lot even in earlier generations.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Running around on Koraidon is a CHORE in SV.

There's only one reason why tbh. All those annoying small mons in the way.

 

[R_N]

Running around on Koraidon is a CHORE in SV.

There's only one reason why tbh. All those annoying small mons in the way.

From running around the region for hundreds of hours, it's really funny the stark contrast in running around the early areas whicha re full of tall grass and tiyn pokemon vs anywhere else which often have less grass and larger pokemon where you generally only run into a Pokemon if it's Tauros and hates you, specifically

 

[Leif98]

Cherrim is an especially annoying one since, even despite the fact that you HAVE to see one at some point in DPP because every Pokemon in the Sinnoh Dex bar Unown is used by an NPC, I can never once recall seeing the Sunshine Form in-game. Gardenia uses one in rematches in Platinum but other than that the only NPC who has one, iirc, is a girl in Iron Island - I assume it knows Sunny Day given its level, but I've presumably always beaten it too quickly to find out.

I remember seeing the Sunny Form in prerelease media and when I got the game I was curious as to why it seemingly was not present.
Cherubi being a honey tree encounter does not help its availability either. And the ability itself is also a mess because they decided to make it a weird gimmick by boosting attack and special defense, which makes no sense considering its stats
maybe it was a coding error and they just ran with it

 

[R_N]

I remember seeing the Sunny Form in prerelease media and when I got the game I was curious as to why it seemingly was not present.
Cherubi being a honey tree encounter does not help its availability either. And the ability itself is also a mess because they decided to make it a weird gimmick by boosting attack and special defense, which makes no sense considering its stats
maybe it was a coding error and they just ran with it

Probably aimed at helping Groudon its allies since they also get the Attack & Sp Def boost
And generally i think raising special defense is never a bad thing to lean in on. Feels like grass types like special defense anyway


Honestly I think the misstep was "boosting attack despite higher special attack" and more "boosting attack without giving it any physical moves". Poor thing only really had Nature Gift (a one use shot) and Razor Leaf (by egg move only) to really use with the boost in DP; Seed Bomb was at least added in Platinum and it has a handful of others these days.

 

[Cobalt Empoleon]

Cherrim is an especially annoying one since, even despite the fact that you HAVE to see one at some point in DPP because every Pokemon in the Sinnoh Dex bar Unown is used by an NPC, I can never once recall seeing the Sunshine Form in-game. Gardenia uses one in rematches in Platinum but other than that the only NPC who has one, iirc, is a girl in Iron Island - I assume it knows Sunny Day given its level, but I've presumably always beaten it too quickly to find out.

Outside of that I think a couple of foes make use of it in PBR and I occasionally see it in Pokemon Go, but that's about it. And the way Pokemon Go handles Cherrim is also crap - Overcast is generally the default form when there's non-sunny weather, so you'd be forgiven for assuming that Cherubi can be evolved into Sunshine Form when the weather's sunny, the way it works for Goodra in rain. No such luck. It's apparently just completely random.

I've seen Gardenia activate Flower Gift in her initial Platinum battle (she has Cherrim instead of Cherubi and leads with a Sunny Day Turtwig) but yeah it's not a common occurrence.

 

[Coronis]

You know, this is actually true. The Elite Four levels of both, at least in DP, are also similar and progress in the same way with each Elite Four being two levels higher and then the Champion is three levels higher.

The only difference is DP Sinnoh's E4+Cynthia levels of their aces at least are exactly one level higher than the aces of RB Kanto's E4+Blue.

RGB Elite Four

View attachment 626744
View attachment 626745
View attachment 626746

DP Sinnoh Elite Four

View attachment 626748
View attachment 626749
View attachment 626750

That's in addition to the level curves of the Gym Leaders being relatively similar too yeah, not to mention the first Gym is Rock and the second is a starter type with a very strong fully evolved Pokemon as the ace (Starmie or Roserade).

There are a few other parallels out there too. Namely Barry's team composition mirroring Blue's, using a FWG core including his starter and having two of three set Pokemon based on that, and always leading with the regional bird (Barry's Staraptor and Blue's Pidgeot). Staraptor itself was the first regional bird to actually closely follow Pidgeot's design ethos from a gameplay standpoint.

Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf are also met at Level 50 like Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres and pretty late into the game, and then both RGB and DP also unlock post-game dungeons that have you meet a Level 70 Legendary (Cerulean Cave's Mewtwo vs Turnback Cave+Stark Mountain Giratina+Heatran) after you beat the Champion.

I could go on and on there but there's seemingly a lot of mirrors between Sinnoh and Kanto in all sorts of places.

While not expressly a parallel there was one reference in DPP of some guard at a gate claiming to be thirsty which is an obvious shoutout to the Saffron guards.

The Kanto references actually run pretty deep and even earlier than most think, looking at it. Kanto's influence shows itself a lot even in earlier generations.

Boy… I sure am thirsty…

 

[VividBunnie]

This is something that only really matters if you're the sort who is taking up ribbon acquisition but it's been itching at me lately, which involves with how the Footprint Ribbon, the original max friendship ribbon, is handled. In Generation VI, to distinguish itself from the Best Friend ribbon, the acquisition method was changed so a mon could qualify to receive it provided they were 30 levels above since they were caught/received. Meaning any mon in Gen VI/VII as well as able to be in BDSP that is lv 71 or above when encountered is automatically unable to qualify. While there are rarely Pokemon encountered beyond lv 70 (the cap post-game mons are generally set at), they still come up such as ORAS Deoxys and BDSP Arceus (Notable for not having a shiny lock).

But at least BDSP did introduce it so a mon can qualify instead if they have max friendship... provided they are in the "voiceless" category, that is. Not sure why they didn't just have both options from the get go.

 

[R_N]

A fascinating list because while most make sense (no feet/only floats = no voice, because thats how Dr Footstep works) and a few are basically just jokes (the regi are weird not-robots, xatu is Mysterious, Shelgon has feet but is an honorary cocoon, paras(ect) is consumed by mushrooms) then you have Nincada (who has feet, a literal mouth) on the list but not Shedinja the pokemon who can't eat, can't walk and indeed can barely move.

 

[Codename C.A.T]

That CERULEDGE has zero CERULEAN in the design.

That shit is purple, TPCI, a very deep blue AT BEST. Do not even try to fool me with this one. It sucks because this design is actually be so cool and it just HAS to be inconsistent with the name in the coloring.

 

[AztecCroc]

That CERULEDGE has zero CERULEAN in the design.
View attachment 628159That shit is purple, TPCI, a very deep blue AT BEST. Do not even try to fool me with this one. It sucks because this design is actually be so cool and it just HAS to be inconsistent with the name in the coloring.

Well, what other purple/blue color were they gonna use that had a non-silent E?

 

[R_N]

Well, what other purple/blue color were they gonna use that had a non-silent E?

Violedge probably could have worked though would definitely have a different connotation. It's definitely not Lavender but it is purple so Lavendedge also works.

Could have just gone for a silent e and just have it become a regular one for the sake of portmanteau. Purpledge does unfortunately sound very stupid.


Feel like if we dug through enough shades of purple or dark blue we could find one that goes with Edge or Blades or Swords well enough.



That said I think Ceruledge has enough blue on it that I didn't really think twice about the name.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I think they wanted a contrast with Armarouge as well. Armarouge has "rouge" in it and when you look at it, admittedly it...doesn't really have that much "rouge" in its design, since rouge is a more pinkish red. Armarouge is more orange and yellow.

Violedge would've worked but Armarouge would've had to be named after scarlet in equivalence (since the games are named Scarlet and Violet) and I don't think there was a good way there.

It's worth noting their Japanese names are named after crimson and azure, however. Gurenarma (グレンアルマ) is "crimson"+"armor" and Soublades (ソウブレイズ) is "azure"+"blades". Make of that as you will.

 

[DreamPrince]

Calyrex.

I’m not talking about how ugly it looks or how broken its forms are. I’m talking about its absence in SV. Both forms are extremely good in Regulation G right now, and look like to be one of the dominant threats.

The problem lies in its aforementioned absence. If you want Calyrex is SV, you have to pay 90$ for SwSh DLC, then complete the game ( You can’t catch it until you have become champion ) and then finally finish the scenario. This is blatantly pay to win, made worse by the time investment.

The most common counterpoint is you can trade, whether by friends or GTS. Let’s look at latter. You risk getting a hacked Pokémon through GTS, and even if you did, it may not have the IVs you want. It’s very common for Calyrex-I to have 0 IVs for TR and it’s most optimal for Calyrex-S to run 0 IV in attack to reduce Foul Play damage. And considering the wide variance of stats, it’s not reliable method to use the GTS for a Calyrex with the stats you need.

The second method involves trading with a friend you know, but even on a site like Smogon, it’s very unlikely that someone is going to give you their only Calyrex and will offer you a clone. Which despite being ok and Smogon and being legally acceptable, still runs risks on being hacked and getting you disqualified. So the only method is to buy the game and get the Pokémon yourself to ensure proper stats and legality.

So conclusion, there is going to be more hacking when G goes live in a few days. And it all falls into the TPC’s and GF’s new business model: Create Problems and sell solutions

 

[R_N]

The most charitable read is they figured most people participating in the big events already had the old games so its not a big deal.

Incompetence rather than malice, basically. They did bother granting access to Urshifu, the more broad top dog, rather than throw it also in the "pay up" bin with Zacian & Calyrex.

it would be funny if finally catching people at Worlds because it was in Japan so they decided to care more got them to go back to the regular way of having all the legends available in a single game next gen, though.

 

[pika pal]

The most charitable read is they figured most people participating in the big events already had the old games so its not a big deal.

Incompetence rather than malice, basically. They did bother granting access to Urshifu, the more broad top dog, rather than throw it also in the "pay up" bin with Zacian & Calyrex.

it would be funny if finally catching people at Worlds because it was in Japan so they decided to care more got them to go back to the regular way of having all the legends available in a single game next gen, though.

The more cynical interpretation I have is that they put Urshifu access in the DLC to get people in the door with the top dog after a year or two, but now they have to spend on the previous games to get the big wigs for Restricted Format once they've already shown an interested and gone past one barrier to entry by buying the current DLC. In this case a Sunk Cost mentality.

The exclusions are blatantly arbitrary at the minimum considering almost all the other Restricted Mons are in Gen 8/9 DLC alongside most of the Gen 8 DLC debuts. It's literally just the Gen 8 Mascots and Calyrex to actually ride the Horses.

That said, what DOES make me think this is incompetence is the fact that the cases where this happens are mons that require finishing the entire game. Stuff like Hidden Ability access or Move Tutors could at least be accessed significantly earlier in their respective games than clearing main game AND the post-game story just to START rolling for the Mon

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

So conclusion, there is going to be more hacking when G goes live in a few days. And it all falls into the TPC’s and GF’s new business model: Create Problems and sell solutions

Ah yes, the good old days when people could easily get a Deoxys...

 

[Sonikku A]

The fact this could potentially happen

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1768520046895136837

B E A S T
B O O S T, Perma Truant, Perms Slow Start, Proto Crackythis, Intimmmmmmidate...

The possibilities to destroy meta is way too fucking plausible

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

The fact this could potentially happen

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1768520046895136837

B E A S T
B O O S T, Perma Truant, Perms Slow Start, Proto Crackythis, Intimmmmmmidate...

The possibilities to destroy meta is way too fucking plausible

Could be a fun item, but a move?

haha double Intimidate go brrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Ah yes, the good old days when people could easily get a Deoxys...
View attachment 628306

If we're talking about the availability specifically for competitions, then the one saving grace of this mess is that Deoxys and other Pokemon of its specific class were never permitted in official tournaments anyway, so they can at least be excluded from any "pay2win" argument.

But man.

I do not really miss the era when some Pokemon were tied to distribution events that were so rare that they sometimes didn't even happen at all. (Unless I've overlooked something, Celebi literally wasn't distributed outside of Japan at all in 3rd gen, in any game, through any means.)

I am several months into a 3rd gen revisit and am toying with the idea of "100%ing" Emerald and FireRed, since I'm already kind of close at this point. I'm not too far away from getting all of the trainer card stars and completing a living dex in at least one of the games. But holy crap is that last hump an absurd timesink, even with the means to transfer saves between cart and emulator and even with the ability to inject wondercards and other modern perks. Like, if you don't want to play XD but still want to get the Johto starters and legendary trio, then you gotta complete Emerald and FRLG three times each and do more work on top of that in each of those 6 playthroughs. (And yes, it specifically has to be Emerald three times and not just any of the Hoenn games; can't do three separate runs of R/S/E for just a little less monotony.) No, thanks.

Honestly, I think the update to HOME that killed the ability to transfer movesets from one game to another is one of the only things I've seen out of TPC in recent years that makes me think that they're even a little bit serious about blunting the incentives to hack mons. I'm sitting here using a Seismic Toss Blissey in the Emerald Battle Frontier and contemplating that if you also wanted to legitimately use this mon/move combo in any of the 5th gen games, then you'd have to obtain it in 3rd gen and jump through all of the hoops to transfer it forward two generations. Even modern Game Freak recognizes that this sort of practice is untenable and absurd.

 

[AztecCroc]

(Unless I've overlooked something, Celebi literally wasn't distributed outside of Japan at all in 3rd gen, in any game, through any means.)

Colosseum Bonus Disc.