(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[Imperial Magala]

Doesn't explain the other crack dex entries like a blackhole for Gardevoir, or Onix only being 400lbs

Blackhole Gardevoir does makes an appearance in Pokken Tournament as its burst move.

 

[Coronis]

Why? Kadabra's been free since last year

I know, just making a reference…

 

[Nokocchi]

\


So, I did some looking around, and I think I might know what Barrage's deal is: It's meant to be an alternative to Tackle. Here is how I got to that conclusion:

1. I noticed Exeggcute learns Barrage at Level 1 (so does Exeggutor but you can't catch them). In Gen I, Exeggcute's next 4 moves are Hypnosis (also Lvl 1), Reflect (Lvl 25), Leech Seed (Lvl 28), and Stun Spore (Lvl 32). For Exeggcute to have Barrage, it would need to be caught below Level 32.
   
   
2. So, where do you get Exeggcute? The Safari Zone! And it's between Levels 24 & 25. This means Exeggcute will only have Barrage, Hypnosis, and Reflect. Barrage is its only attacking move when you first catch it.
   
   
3. Now in Gen I Tackle was 35 Power. Barrage is 15, so if it hit only 2 times it would only be 5 points off, but if it hit 3 or more it would be doing more. So it's a (forced) risk vs reward, Barrage is 85% accurate and even if it hits may do less damage than Tackle, BUT if it hits its likely to hit 3 times thus doing more damage.

As for why they would do this instead of just giving it Tackle or something like Absorb and/or Confusion? Well, crack it to early design thoughts they had for Pokemon at the time they sorta no longer hold themselves to. In Gen I most Pokemon start with a weak Normal-type Physical move like Tackle or Pound cause that's the most basic thing a creature can do. However, while most Pokemon were just on relatively solid being, Exeggcute was SIX fragile eggs/seeds. The thought was probably "they're basic attack would be them tossing themselves at the target one-after-the-other, they'll do less damage because they're soft but we'll make it so if more than half hit they'll do more damage than Tackle". As for how Exeggutor does it, it probably just tries whacking you with its 3 heads. Also I imagine the max hits was 5 due to memory limit for multi-hit moves, though we can imagine its because one Exeggcute is designated with the job of directing where the others throw themselves.

Things stayed roughly the same in Gen II, but things got interesting in Gen III. Gen III introduced the mechanic of "Contact", some Moves made contact with the target, some don't, and this was an important for the just introduced Abilities. With Barrage being a "Tackle" alternative, you'd think it would be a Contact Move. But no, Barrage was considered a Move that doesn't make Contact! So, if the Exeggcute family wasn't directly hitting the opponent with their faces, what were they doing? Solid energy balls? Well, it didn't really matter. Exeggcute's movepool was changed though the change wasn't noticeable until FRLG. This time, Exeggcute caught in the Safari Zone knew the following Moves: Hypnosis (if Level 24), Reflect, Leech Seed, Confusion, & Stun Spore (if Level 25). Yup, Barrage was only accessible as a Move it you used a Move Reminder or hatched it... along with Hypnosis and Uproar! So, yeah, no matter what way you slice it, Barrage become obsolete at this point.

And then Gen VIII it was no longer selectable.

(TBC)

In Japanese, the move is Called "Ball Throw". As a result, it is blocked by Bulletproof.

Additionally, in the Gold and Silver 1997 Space World Demo, there was a Fire/Water Seal that balanced a flaming ball on its nose that could also learn Barrage.

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

So what you're saying in other monster collecting games, if they want to "be good", you gotta give up on the weaker monster you may like to train get those "harder to obtain because they're strong" monsters (which would then lean me to thinking that at end game a lot of players teams are probably looking the same) whereas Pokemon will let you keep those early route mons for quite a while in not throughout the whole game cause you may have dared to form a bond with them and made it your favorite (and thus letting players have a wider range of teams they could have beat the game with). Got it.

No, you really haven't got it. If you're actually good at teambuilding, you can easily make use of the early stuff in some way and because the game is harder, it's made more meaningful what you carry to the end and teams become extremely varied because of how greatly pure skill is rewarded.


Here's a pretty good example that proves my point. Despite being a kid's game, Yo-Kai Watch Busters Red Cat Corps and White Dog Squad get exceptionally brutal. Bosses in this game are no stranger to taking bad teams and bad players with no awareness and shredding them like a sheet. This guy is using Sailornyan. Sailornyan has no offensive options due to being a Healer. Plus, it's not even good as a Healer. It's heavily outclassed for that by things like Spoilerina and Elder Bloom. Despite that, this player is soloing some of the hardest bosses in the game as a time trial. Bosses that are no stramger to teamwiping the average four player party. How is this accomplished? Pure, unadulterated skill. You can brag about this because the game is actually hard abd even moreso if Sailornyan is one if your favorite monsters. It's nowhere near on the same level as soloing a Pokemon game with any low tier monster either. There's really no such thing as "overlevelling" especially in Yo-Kai Watch games and ESPECIALLY in Busters because even Ultra difficulty bosses are designed in a way that makes it so even teams at a max level of 99 with the top tier gear will get ripped apart if they make a mistake. Hence, using what you want in this context is made all the more meaningful and bragworthy because you went through tough training and proved yourself. Kinda like the stuff Pokemon emphasizes.

... So, Disc Creatures look to be a straight up homage to the days of Gen 1 and 2. You know, games which didn't have as much content as current Pokemon games do now and graphics which you could literally count the pixels. Modest content, old graphics... two things which you keep wailing on Pokemon about.

Nothing against Disc Creatures, I'm sure if you played Gen 1 & 2 fully through and still have an itching for that style of game Disc Creatures will fill that itch, but I'm failing to see how Disc Creatures is any "better" than Pokemon Gen 1 & 2 or any future Pokemon games if you don't care about the graphic style. And being its a straight homage there's nothing "new" or innovative about it either.

Probably because it has more leeway due to being an indie game made by one person at a cheaper price versus a game 6 times more expensive by a company worth billions. Context is key.

Actually the way they handle MP recharge is pretty new and innovative as well as general tanking, skill inheritance, skill pools and money grinding. Can't say I've seen anything like it from the many games I played.

Wait, are you thinking of the quote where the reason they gave to no longer include the Battle Frontier is because they did research showing most players stopped playing the game after becoming Champion thus an entire Battle Frontier felt like a waste of resources to do?

What do you mean by that? Okay, yeah, we complain ORAS is missing the Emerald content, notably the Battle Frontier, but it's not due to lack of content. There is quite a few things to do post game before the only thing left to do is just the Battle Maison.

I'm gonna need a source for that "research" they talked about. That doesn't change the Battle Frontier being a highly regarded postgame feature and in your words, one where players that would want difficulty could get it.

I like Pokemon. I don't care about Yokai Watch or the other monster collector games that keep being brought up. I'm glad they're better balanced and prettier than Pokemon, good for them, good for their fans. But its really reading like DrCoeloCephalo is advocating people should abandon Pokemon to play another monster collecting game because of that. And, no. I would have done so already if I wanted to. Anyway of us would have. While I keep saying this is a Pokemon forum, this is also a COMPETETIVE Pokemon forum, we're all VERY aware of Pokemon's shortcomings. But to us the answer isn't abandoning it, because we would have, instead we want and demand it to be better.

I don't understand why everyone assumes you have to abandon anything like it's some kind of cult where you can only pledge loyalty to one thing (Joke exaggeration but I hope you get my point) . Of course you don't have to abandon Pokemon to play another monster collector. That's stupid and silly and I never said that. In fact, I've articulated numerous times that I myself continue to play new Pokemon games (albeit used or borrowed to avoid giving support) while still playing other monster collectors. These days, I'm borrowing Legends Arceus and bouncing between that and Coromon depending on my mood and will likely be playing TemTem on my Switch while I wait on borrowing Scarlet and Violet. I clearly did not have to """""""abandon""""""" Pokemon to do that, so I don't understand what you're basing that claim on. Japan loves Pokemon more than any other country. They certainly didn't throw a hissy fit over the idea of playing other games in the genre and still don't. They didn't have to """"""""abandon""""""""" Pokemon to enjoy Digimon. They certainly never """"""""""abandoned""""""""""" Dragon Quest to play Pokemon in spite of Dragon Quest having monster collecting and battling before Pokemon was even in development. Why shouldn't I adopt a similar practice? I get to play more games I like that way. It's the exact same thing I do with Sonic and other platformers. I can continue to love and play platformer games like Sonic 2006 while still criticizing its poor quality in reference to games like Mario 64, Wario Land 4, Crumble, Freedom Planet and Spark the Electric Jester 3. I also do the same with class based shooters as I adore playing Team Fortress 2, Plants vs. Zombies Battle For Neighborville and watching Overwatch highlights now and again. There's nothing wrong with observing how games that share a genre tackle overlapping concepts. Plants Vs. Zombies Battle for Neighborville doesn't have as much of a balancing issue with its sniper classes as TF2 does.

I prefer Sonic 06 as a game over certain others for many a reason. It doesn't mean I'm about to put it above criticism or expressing my annoyances with it especially with so many other platformers to look for reference on how to tackle certain concepts especially since I want Sonic games to be at their best because I love Sonic. The same logic applies to Pokemon for me. It's just that simple.

I don't expect you to care about any of the games I bring up. Doesn't mean I can't use them as an example.

Okay, dude, this is just becoming an obsession. It was funny once or twice, but like you can't go a single post without slamming on Pokemon. You make some insightful comments on how another monster collecting game does things, you don't even need to mention Pokemon is what it's being compared to because that goes without question (you know you're on a Pokemon forum, right?).

And then, for absolutely no reason, you feel the need to make a "jab" at Pokemon.

Like, right here is a Yokai Watch forum, you don't need to be here if you really feel Pokemon isn't up to your standards.

I'm already on a plethora of servers and sites where I discuss Yo-Kai Watch because I love it. It doesn't prevent me from being on a site discussing Pokemon because I love it. Why should it? I can play more than one game of a genre and criticize it.

I'm vouching for the exact same thing in that I want Pokemon to be better. Playing other games just gives me a broader scope on what CAN be handled better and how. For example, how these other games tend to have a fast forward button feature and uses more visual UI when hitting for weakness as opposed to "it's super-effective" text to speed up certain battles while still retaining animation. Given how the simulation this site is dedicated to does pretty much exactly that by making UI snappier with visuals instead of slowing it down with a text box, that hardly seems unjust to use as reference.

I, for one, am a pretty simple person. I'm here cuz I like Pokemon. I don't waste my time on a game or series I don't care about. I don't have that kind of free time.

It's clearly not just me or "my standards" either given many on this thread voice many of tehe exact same complaints. A similar question could be thrown back at you now that I've given my own answer. Why are you on a thread criticizing Pokemon if you don't want to read someone's criticisms of Pokemon? There are plenty of other threads NOT doing that that you can choose to engage in as well. I choose to be here cuz I like Pokemon, am obsessed with Pokemon but wish it was better.

Doesn't mean they're right either, or at the very least the way they're carrying themselves. Many of their posts contain "jabs" as Pokemon even when its not necessary. There been a few instances where I felt they've been rude to other members simply for preferring Pokemon over another monster collector series (on a Pokemon forum).

Then provide counterarguments. It seems you've actually been taking the time to put your thoughts together and I highly applaud you for it. It certainly makes for more respectful discussion than nothing burger comments like "He's REALLY comparing a monster collector to another monster collector? OMG" (a gross exaggeration but I hope you get my point. You're not resorting to anything that petty.) It's funny you claim I'M being rude when all I've done is sardonically criticize Pokemon by calling it a shallow, unbalanced, poorly written, brainless game on a thread where people are listing their annoyances with Pokemon. Criticizing a game is not rude nor is it a personal attack unless it's just that tied to your personality. Meanwhile, others have only resorted to off-hand ad hominem and I respect you for not sinking to that. Thank you.

Complaining the Pokemon games don't really give you other career paths aside from trainer is like complaining in Mario you only do platforming instead of stealth or in Legend of Zelda you only action & adventure instead of raising & leading an army. Yes, that's something those characters could supposedly do, and in some games may have some segments where they do that, but that's not the main focus of the game, a game you bought knowing what you were buying it for.

This criticism doesn't really work or maybe nust not the examples you're using because these games gives you alternate options throughout main series to solve certain solutions. There are many ways to fly or guide or use projectiles in any Mario game or some kind of magic item that changes drastically on how you play Zelda. Also, I'm pretty sure Mario 64 lets you sneak up on sleeping Piranha Plants and Goombas. Not to mention, you use Pokemon spinoffs to back up your point and Hyrule Warriors is a Zelda game even if it is Zelda over a Dynasty Warriors game where you have an army.

Unfortunately game mechanics & graphic assets are a hurdle when it comes to that. Now to give credit to GF, they have done some interesting things reworking the basic battling system for things like Pokemon Contests and PokeStar Studios. They've also done interesting things with the graphics assets they had on hand such as using the "Walking Sprites" for the Pokeathlon and the battling sprites in Pokemon Musicals. However, at the end of the day, it mostly connects back to the battling system which prime use is, well, Pokemon Battles. And we're now just seeing how the jump to 3D models are impacting on GF's ability to do this. Gen III Contests didn't straw away too far from the battling system so ORAS's Pokemon Contests were fine. However Gen IV's Contests were a tad more complicated by having rounds where the Pokemon was dancing, and while in sprite form, this did not translate well in 3D in BDSP. The models needed like some dancing animations and they obviously did not have time to do any of that. Now imagine the problems they'll have with Pokemon Musicals, especially with giving Pokemon props. Pokeathlon was fine when they were just small overworld sprites, but its hard to overlook a Pokemon doing stuff in a 3D model without the model having an animation reflecting the action being done (jumping, ducking, falling, dodging, etc.). PokeStar Studios should technically be fine, but it requires a lot of additional work as they'll now need to make models for all the special opponents & trainers (and players may not expect to see an animated scripted scene from the movie instead of the comic-like still shots).

And this is another good example that proves some of my points where other games shine. Yo-Kai Watch had all its animation work already implemented which allowed them to do more with it, mainly having the game include a real time action roguelike that made good use of their walking and running animations to trek around dungeons in a main series game (complete with dodging animations too, mind you). Meanwhile, Pokemon couldn't even properly implement walking and running animation on the 3DS. The files just remain unused in the game. You dob't have to like or care about Yo-Kai Watch. I don't expect you to. Regardless of your feelings, the above statement remains a fact.

It doesn't matter which game I like more or which you like more. That's not the point as given by my previous point.

Again, this is a thread where one expresses their annoyances with Pokemon. There is no rule saying I cannot do so in a sardonic manner nor is there a rule saying I cannot use other games of the same genre in context of good game design. I'm allowed to express my thoughts freely especially as long as it falls within the rules of said forum site. It's funny how people get annoyed at me for THAT and my usual counterargument is how VGC Champion Wolfey uses Monopoly and Mario Kart on why he thinks random crits are good. Last I checked, both those games fall WAY outside the realm of the same genre and no one complains about that and it's especially dumb because you can turn off items in Mario Kart, so his comparison falls flat. Generally, no one ever says squat when I bring that up.

While many players would like a "Hard Mode" for the main story, at the same time the main story is meant to be winnable by kids as long as they can read. If you want challenge and see where the game's battling mechanics shine then that's in the (usually) post game Battling Facilities (and sometimes bonus bosses).

This also holds zero water. I think I expressed in this thread earlier how Dragon Quest Monsters and Yo-Kai Watch are also aimed at younger demographics yet don't suffer from half the game design issues on top of being way harder as games. Kids today adore Fortnite, where they're regularly challenged by other players. It seems safe to assume kids aren't as scared of difficulty as some wish to believe.

I mean, can you really say that Pikachu's situation is different than Jibanyan?

Yes, because there are many versions of Jibanyan that are viable in high ladder. Pikachu isn't. Not to mention thanks to the anime having more of a sense of humor and actual character flaws, Jibanyan loses alot of battles, gets beaten up or is just too lazy to help from wanting to eat some chocolate or attend his regular catgirl idol concerts. He doesn't fall back on dumb plot armor like Pikachu.

This kinda plays into what I mean since playing other games or at least doing some research gives me the scope to point that out.

DrCoeloCephalo, I don't like your tone here. We get it, you like the other monster collecting games more than Pokemon and believe they've done certain things better. That's all well and good, but you can get that point across without being condescending to people who still prefer Pokemon.

Another monster collecting game has mechanics and systems which is more balanced than Pokemon. Alright, good for it; I'm happy for the fans of those games. I still prefer Pokemon. I like the Pokemon designs. I like the turn-based battling system and the various nuances the years have added upon it to make it more complex.

There's nothing "shallow" about that, infact "shallowness" doesn't even factor in at all. I like Pokemon. I want the Pokemon franchise to improve where there are faults be them mechanics or graphics. If I wanted more balanced mechanics or better graphics, I would have gone to a different game. But I don't want to play a different game as, for me, Pokemon fills more/most of the boxes which those those other monster collecting game don't. And if that makes me "shallow", well, I guess I'm certainly on the right forum for it.

Pokemon also preaches about going with what you like and that's alright. Also respecting people and their opinion, that's another thing too.

Also, when a new Pokemon game comes out, you are going on a new journey, cause its a new region. Heck, the newest region in the upcoming game is even encouraging playing with friends in a new multiplayer mode where you get to travel around the region with them!

It kinda does have to do with being shallow because Pokemon kinda preaches a point about being ABOVE judging others based on appearances. This in particular is a lesson I took to heart from Pokemon and am very obsessed with cuz I love the series so much.

Again, Pokemon also puts an emphasis on training what you like to be strong but it doesn't actually work that way.

No idea what disrespecting the thoughts of others has to do with it cuz I never put anyone down here.

You're more than free to keep playing Pokemon games and nothing else if you wish. You have the right to and I can't stop you and you certainly don't need my permission. I'm just a critic on the internet.

You're not obligated to read anything I write or care about it. I'm just expressing my own thoughts.

Don't then?

Exactly lol.

 

[DrumstickGaming]

Remember how we dunk on Flint for having 2 Fire mons on the coldest region in the franchise?

Meet his partner in crime.

If you don't remember her, Glacia claims to have traveled to Hoenn to further hone her Ice skills and her mons are 2 Glalie, 2 Sealeo and a Walrein.

Now, ceal might find this roster appealing, but Glalie has a flat 80 in every base stat and Sealeo is a NFE mon. This is the 3rd E4 member in Hoenn.

Level differences aside, this might be the most pathetic E4 member EVER. Who greenlit this?

Nope, Glacia isn't the worst not when the following exist:

Poison type user, literally only one offensive Poison move

More evasion strats (especially when the pool of Pokemon you get here feel weaker), so much fun to fight

Agatha, the RNG simulator:

Black and White 2 version of Caitlin: AKA "literally any setup sweeper with a Chesto Berry beats this in a game where Work Up exists for so many Pokemon"

Phoebe is also especially obnoxious in RSE, mostly due to bad game design regarding Dark type stats / moves (Absol is like, the only thing in the original versions that can sweep Phoebe off the top of my head outside of meme picks like Taunt Howl Shadow Ball Mightyena):

Everyone can complain about bosses not having enough mons to fulfill their type (it's not a particularly original comment tbh, you're gonna have type imbalances here and there sometimes) but I'll take that stuff any day over "will the game finally let me deal damage?" simulator. Even Sidney has elements of this with Double Team Swagger (related: why do so many things in Kanto have Sand-Attack?)

Also in terms of actual worst Elite Four member not counting RNG stuff...that's definitely any version of Bruno in Kanto. In HGSS Machamp can be mildly threatening but you seriously have to try to lose to Bruno in RBY.

 

[Hugin]

I mean, RNG simulators aren't fun, but they're a strategy, that's coherent across their entire team, uses mons of the appropriate types, and provides a challenge. That to me is better than RBY Bruno/RSE Glacia. If the E4 isn't tough, then what's the point?

 

[Bakugames]

I mean, RNG simulators aren't fun, but they're a strategy, that's coherent across their entire team, uses mons of the appropriate types, and provides a challenge. That to me is better than RBY Bruno/RSE Glacia. If the E4 isn't tough, then what's the point?

I just feel like difficulty in RNG is bad game design IMO. There's a difference between someone like Cynthia or Kukui or whatever where you can strategize to beat them (bring in better mons, use this type of move, etc), and someone like Agatha or Sydney, where your strategies are either out-RNG them or out level and one shot them, both very unfun paths.

Agatha and Phoebe are even worse for being hard to counter as a type (and phoebe's mons can be tanky as hell too), so the over levelling will need to be somewhat excessive, or you'll just have to pray for luck

 

[Coronis]

Trying to hit that tiny little minimized icon in the first 2 Gens really pissed me off. Probably my most hated Pokemon move just cos of that.

 

[Imperial Magala]

I mean, RNG simulators aren't fun, but they're a strategy, that's coherent across their entire team, uses mons of the appropriate types, and provides a challenge. That to me is better than RBY Bruno/RSE Glacia. If the E4 isn't tough, then what's the point?

Especially considering Koga is ninja, whose whole gimmick is concealment and fighting dirty.

 

[Worldie]

You guys must be glad you didn't play Let's Go and didn't have to deal with Koga's followers...

Evasion spam but with actually good movesets... my brain still hurts...

 

[Coronis]

You guys must be glad you didn't play Let's Go

Yes, yes we are

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

You guys must be glad you didn't play Let's Go and didn't have to deal with Koga's followers...

Evasion spam but with actually good movesets... my brain still hurts...

I think I trampled through that with Lovely Kiss Jynx. Can't say I can relate.

 

[DrumstickGaming]

I think I trampled through that with Lovely Kiss Jynx. Can't say I can relate.

Jynx is a slept on Pokémon, one of my favorites in Kanto, controversy be screwed

it’s a shame that in literally any game besides Kanto, Jynx falls victim to movepool issues (Psychic is postgame in GSC, just kinda bad all around in HGSS) or power creep (XY). I’m a big Jynx fan and hope it gets good again in-game sometime. Lovely Kiss is an amazing move and it’s notable in the fact that it is one of the few reliable STAB Dream Eater users.

 

[Coronis]

Jynx is a slept on Pokémon, one of my favorites in Kanto, controversy be screwed

Agreed. I remember somehow doing a runthrough of Crystal with Jynx Magmar and Electabuzz (may have involved some VBA cheating shenanigans) and it was one of my funnest play throughs. Was thoroughly disappointed when Jynx didn’t get an evolution alongside the others in Gen 4.

 

[Scorpio]

Jynx is a slept on Pokémon, one of my favorites in Kanto, controversy be screwed

it’s a shame that in literally any game besides Kanto, Jynx falls victim to movepool issues (Psychic is postgame in GSC, just kinda bad all around in HGSS) or power creep (XY). I’m a big Jynx fan and hope it gets good again in-game sometime. Lovely Kiss is an amazing move and it’s notable in the fact that it is one of the few reliable STAB Dream Eater users.

Think it’s fine in USUM, you can get a Smoochum fairly early along with Frost Breath and Psychic

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Jynx is superb in B2W2, can be transferred from the Dream Radar as early as you like and has Dry Skin which it really appreciates. Really underrated mon all round.

 

[Pikachu315111]

The way some UBs have the identical Pokedex entry “Although it’s alien to this world and a danger here, it’s apparently a common organism in the world where it normally lives” is boring

• Buzzwole: A reckless alien in this world, its home world is a jungle with muscle tone trees it wrestles against and active volcanoes it trains in.
• Pheromosa: A hasty alien in this world, its home world is a desert where it uses its super speed to turn sand to crystal which it uses to build.
• Xurkitree: A power-draining alien in this world, its home world is a tangle of cable-like vines it plugs itself into to connect with others.
• Celesteele: A combusting alien in this world, its home world is a valley filled with craters which contain a liquid it uses as fuel to launch off.
• Kartana: A severing alien in this world, its home world is a forest where human-like beings train to use them as a samurai does with a sword.
• Guzzlord: A devouring alien in this world, its home world is a desolate planet because of it, but no one knows where it came from.

There GF, was that so hard to do?

What is a Legendary Pokémon?
According to Bulbapedia... It's any Pokémon Game Freak/TPCi/whoever is in charge of the franchise slaps the "Legendary" label on.

Is anyone else confused by the lack of consistency among this group of Pokémon? Because nothing fully unifies Legendary Pokémon and makes them fully distinct from non-Legendary Pokémon

Hm, you know, I feel "Legendary" is more of an arbitrary title. Comparing it to something in the real world, what we count as a "God" vastly differs from culture/religion to culture/religion.

Some only have the one god, some have a set of gods, some have a god for every day of the week. Some have powerful spirits BUT they are not considered deities.
Some gods are human, some gods have heads of animals, some gods are just the element they control, some gods don't have a set form if any.
Some gods are forces of a nature and have no connection with people, some gods exist to help the people, some have evil gods who harm the people.

Like with classifying real world "Gods", what classifies a "Legendary" Pokemon is going to depend on the culture(s) of that Region and what position that Legendary is in. While "power, rarity, and lore" are three usual good parameters to work with, a Legendary neither needs all three and some can just get by with one. The only "unifying" thing I can really think that relates them is that you're not gonna see a trainer without considerable ranking using them as if they're like any other Pokemon not considered Legendary. You gotta go through them one-by-one (or in groups of two/three/four which many are in) to discuss why it's been called a Legendary (and for some the reason may be flimsy, Phione).

Going back to Ultra Beasts for a second, they would usually have the checkmarks for a Legendary, but they're not. They're considered their own thing simply because they're exclusively from another dimension (and travelling from that other dimension seem to have given them certain related quicks like prime stat numbers and the Beast Boost Ability). And the dex further goes on to explain even in their home world they may not be considered Legendary because they're a common species. The Cosmog family seem to escape this as they seemingly are rare and, because they have visited the Pokemon World in the past, people have seen them and written legends on them thus get the title of Legendary. And Necrozma I don't even know, it's not an Ultra Beast, its apparently questionable if its even considered a "Pokemon" at least as we know it.

Also them deciding to separate legendaries and mythicals. The only difference between the two is the method of obtaining them in the games. But in the Pokémon universe that's not really a thing, so the mythical classification literally has no relevance there.

Mythical is even more arbitrary as this one feels like its completely meta. I don't even know how to fit it into an in-world arbitrary title concept without it sounding like the reason someone would call a Pokemon "Legendary". There Japanese name is "Illusionary Pokemon", and I don't recall the term "Mythical/Illusionary" ever really being used in the game as official terms for them. They're just referred to as super rare Pokemon if it ever comes up (though I don't think they're even considered Legendaries unless attached to a Legendary group such as Keldeo). So, I would actually say "Mythical" is PURELY a meta term, it does not exist in-world, similar to "Pseudo Legendary" or "Pikaclone" except Mythical is a official term for marketing purposes. Looking through the batch of them, if I were to give them a more descriptive umbrella term it would be "Aloof Pokemon", get rid of the vagueness of "Mythical" and while explaining these Pokemon are just very rare to see or reach or maybe even know about.

Right off the bat they introduce him as "The strongest trainer in the entire world!" whichin itself isn't really an issue but imo the problem is that they don't explore this.

Most have said what I would have about Leon (essentially being a mirror of the protag), though this one point actually does bother me (and why the recent Diantha battle really bugs me).

In the games, Leon is the strongest trainer in GALAR. That's it. Maybe he battled other notable trainers outside Galar, we aren't really told, but one thing Leon wants to do as Champion is show the world how strong Galar trainers are. If Leon was already the world champion, why would he even need to do that? Wouldn't the world's strongest trainer being from Galar naturally lead to many thinking Galar trainers are strong? This could also go hand-to-hand with Rose's focus so being on Galar that he could have advertised and marketed the Galar League to the world years ago, but he kept the Galar League pretty much secluded to the region. Thus, despite Leon being a mirror of the player, we don't really know how he would measure up against other Champions. I have never gotten the sense in the games that Leon has faced Lance, Steven, Wallace, Cynthia, Alder, Iris, or Diantha, let alone others like Elite Four members and Frontier Brains.

Infact, with the strongest trainers he battled being in Galar, is it that he's unstoppable because he's a really good strategist, or is it because he has battled against essentially the same opponents so many times he just knows how to counter them (not to mention most of them are the Gym Leaders who are all Type Specialists).

Yes, I'm oversimplifying things, though what I'm saying is, no anime, against an actual other Champion like Diantha, Leon should be sharing knock outs. Leon should have lost at least four of his Pokemon against Diantha if he kept from using his Charizard until Diantha sent out her Gardevoir. Like, they skipped more than half the match anyway so it's not like they had to animate the other battles they weren't already planning to show. Leon was already feeling like a Gary Stu with his battle against Alain, which I just let go as them wanting to build up tension of Leon for Ash personally, but this was not the case with Diantha and all they did was make Leon look like a writer's pet and did Diantha dirty (and being she's a Champion that didn't really receive much attention in the games, this felt like it would have been an opportunity to really show what she got and why she's a Champion; but NOPE, we gotta make Leon look invincible until he verses Ash when he would conveniently forget his plot armor so will have an even match with him).

It's also why I really like the first episode of Pokemon Evolutions which focuses in on Leon just before his Champion Battle with the protag. He doesn't say a word, but you can just tell from his expression and slight motions that the battle with Eternatus REALLY shook him. Leon is always acting in charge and unfazed by any setbacks, but here we finally get to see Leon in a vulnerable moment which shows he truly is good guy, he's afraid of not being strong enough to protect those he care about, & possibly feels guilty he needed to be the one that was saved. It shows there is a human character underneath all that bravado and those sponsor logos.

(TBC)

TBC two weeks later, I r gud at managing time.

I mean, since the initial trailer and starter reveal, thats basically what I’ve done.

Man, major kudos to you! Part of me would like to do that, but the other part of me also wants to know what to be expecting. I guess it's my personal form of FOMO, I don't get it from stuff like missing out playing a game event or not watching a certain new show, but when it comes to new Pokemon info I want to learn about it asap (hey, at least its free FOMO). I do try to keep away from spoilers though, that's a bit too much, but trailers and stuff revealed via website is free game (to me, and of course kept on the thread dedicated to discussing the new game).

Drake demands more respect than Leon.

For the short time we had with Drake, and the Orange Island crew in general, I liked them; they definitely had a lot of personality put into them, sometimes even moreso than characters in the game (they probably are leagues ahead of several Kalos League trainers). I can see why fan hacks to try and remake the Orange Islands is a popular project.

if a given area is the first area an evolutionary line appears in the game, imo that line should need to spawn the unevolved form first, thats how they did it in the early gens.

Or at the very least have the unevolved form as an encounter, heck make it a common encounter with the evo a slightly more uncommon encounter. I think we've been shown that just because a Pokemon is at evo level that doesn't mean it needs to have evolved. For Wild Pokemon it could be the Pokemon just naturally aged to that Level or there's something about that species social structure where they would only want a few of the evolution while the others remain unevolved. Also, whose to say evo Levels aren't boosted by having a bond with a trainer and in the Wild a Pokemon evolves in different ways which either means evolving later or, some rare cases, able to evolve early.

Let's change the subject to stat-enhancing items. (...) Some are more useful than others, and sometimes it depends on the generation (RIP Soul Dew's viability), but there are three of these that are just plain useless: the Lucky Punch and Ditto's Powders.

I agree all these items, if they want to keep them, should receive an upgrade.

Lucky Punch: Now from the effect alone it feels completely random. Why bother with an item to increase its Critical Hit Ratio when it's a Special wall? Checking it, I see it was introduced all the way back in Gen II and with that I could MAYBE see what GF was thinking. Back in Gen I, Chansey wasn't just a Special wall Pokemon but a Special powerhouse; it soaked up Special moves and could deliver them back because Special was a singular stat. When Gen II was introduced, Special was split into Sp. Atk & Sp. Def, redefining many Pokemon which were Special-focused. With Chansey being made into a Special wall, GF maybe were felt it would alienate players who liked Chansey. Sure, they also were making Blissey which is better in every way, but to get Blissey you needed high friendship which takes a while to grind and best way to increase is leveling up which Chansey now has a harder time doing. So, they decided to give it a Held Item, but instead of doing something simple like doubling Special Attack, they decided to be cute. You see, Chansey's name in Japanese is "Lucky", with the idea of seeing one, let alone catching one, was lucky. So, Lucky Punch (the name itself a pun) focuses on Critical Hit Ratio cause Chansey would naturally be more "lucky" to score one (this is also probably why it gets the Ability Serene Grace).
So, how to improve it? While normally I like to keep with the "spirit" of the item, I'm going to do a twist with this: On a turn Chansey uses a punching move, it'll use its Special Defense stat instead of Attack for damage calculation, the Move's Power is increased by 20%, and there's a 50/50 chance Chansey will move first. Now that's what I call a "Lucky Punch".

Ditto Powders: Yeah, you already went over what the basic thought of these items were (and why they didn't work), so skipping to my upgrade suggestion: Both Powders make Ditto move last BUT protects it from everything except damage from moves (so its unaffected by Status Moves, secondary effects, status ailments, & indirect damage). When Ditto uses Transform, at the end of the turn after having Transformed, if its holding Metal Powder it increases both Defense & Special Defense by +1 stage; if it's holding Quick Powder it increases Speed by +1 stage each turn. Both items are consumed afterwards. Now only does this give a reason for the Powders to exist, but also a reason to even use a non-Imposter Ditto. Heck, I'd even maybe suggest making a "Power Powder" to increase Atk & Sp. Atk and change its normal Ability from Limber to Sticky Hold.

When I'm watching a Nuzlocke and the person is very overlevelled.

That is why nuzlockes need a leveling rule.

Eh, I more think it should be generally agreed just to play the game and not grind unless absolutely necessary. Part of the fun of the Nuzlocke is working with that you get; sometimes you're lucky and you have the right Pokemon for the right job, sometimes you aren't and got to think your way to a victory. And while you of course don't want a Pokemon to faint, that's as much part of a Nuzlocke as the "only catch first mon on route" rule. It can be tragic and sometimes unfair, but that what makes Nuzlockes interesting from a narrative prospective. If you're just gonna grind levels so your Pokemon has little chance of fainting, why are you even playing a Nuzlocke?

Wtf was even that Squirtle biting scene? You never see anything that again in Origins and feels like it was added as a hook to keep people invested. Like I remember in Generations Bryce kicking Plasma grunts and Essentia kicking Mimi, but you don't see stuff like Charamander screaming bloody murder in its first battle anywhere else.

I guess they wanted to show how inexperienced & unprepared Red was? During the whole time Charmander was being bit, Red was just standing there in shock until he noticed Charmander's tail flame weakening and he recalls it. An experience trainer would have commanded their Pokemon to counterattack and toss Squirtle off them after the initial bite. But Red just stood there, so Charmander could do nothing but withstand Bite and the increasing damage. It's more violent than anything else we've seen because Red is failing as a trainer to respond to their Pokemon in a distressing situation.

How Would It Usually Go

*Squirtle Bite Charmander*
Charmander: GAH!
Red: Charmander, it's head it out, use a Scratch!
*Charmander scratches Squirtle causing it to let go and back off*

What Red Did

*Squirtle Bite Charmander*
Charmander: GAH!
Red: What...
Charmander: AAAH! MASTER GIVE ME AN ORDER! IT'S BITING DOWN HARDER!
Red: Ugh...
Charmander: AAAAAH! MASTER HELP! I CAN'T TAKE THE PRESSURE!
Red: Oh, Charmander's tail is weakening!
Charmander: AAAAAAAH! NO S*** SHERLOCK! DO SOMETHING! ANYTHING! WHILE I STILL HAVE A CHEEK!
*Red returns Charmander*
Charmander: ... If we don't have my favorite meal tonight I'm setting your sleeping bag on fire.

Now, ceal might find this roster appealing, but Glalie has a flat 80 in every base stat and Sealeo is a NFE mon. This is the 3rd E4 member in Hoenn.

Would have been so easy to throw in Shellder on Route 109, Sneasel in Mt. Pyre, and Jynx also in Shoal Cave.

A bunch of Megas should've been straight up evos. Any mon that wasn't a 3rd stage one shouldn't even have gotten one in the first place.

(...)

Now Mawile is probably stuck as a terrible mon until Megas return. What a boneheaded idea.

If they weren't afraid to change things, maybe they could give Houndoom, Mawile, Medicham, Manectric, Banette, Absol, Sableye, Glalie, Lopunny, & Audino a new evo which resembles their Mega Evo but isn't so "fancy". Then retcon the Mega for being the new Evo, you would only need to change the names of the Mega, Stones, and also readjust the stats (heck, maybe also slightly redesign the Mega).

Then again, I guess this is what Regional Variants are for now?

In Japanese, the move is Called "Ball Throw". As a result, it is blocked by Bulletproof.

Additionally, in the Gold and Silver 1997 Space World Demo, there was a Fire/Water Seal that balanced a flaming ball on its nose that could also learn Barrage.

I know, doesn't change my observation, though interesting the Fire/Water Seal was going to get it. Does that mean I'm off with my thinking or by Gen II they were thinking differently/more openly about what the concept of the Move was.

(Finally caught up to the recent page, though gonna stop here as next post is gonna take some time)

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Buzzwole: A reckless alien in this world, its home world is a jungle with muscle tone trees it wrestles against and active volcanoes it trains in.

The flexing trees were already hilarious. The idea that Buzzwole picks fights with these trees just because it can is even better.

 

[DrumstickGaming]

Think it’s fine in USUM, you can get a Smoochum fairly early along with Frost Breath and Psychic

Oh yeah, I forgot it was in USUM.

if I remember correctly Smoochum isn’t the best Mon there because of its fragility (not helped by the shaky defensive type).

It’s not so much Jynx itself is a bad Pokémon so much as the game is really, REALLY unkind to glass cannons for the most part (Speed buffs for Totems make them unreliable) unless they have an amazing type like Hawlucha. I mean, one of the best Pokémon in those games is Mudbray, a slow tank after all.

 

[Coronis]

Man, major kudos to you! Part of me would like to do that, but the other part of me also wants to know what to be expecting. I guess it's my personal form of FOMO, I don't get it from stuff like missing out playing a game event or not watching a certain new show, but when it comes to new Pokemon info I want to learn about it asap (hey, at least its free FOMO). I do try to keep away from spoilers though, that's a bit too much, but trailers and stuff revealed via website is free game (to me, and of course kept on the thread dedicated to discussing the new game).

Yeah idk I might end up watching the other trailers like the day prior to release to hype myself up even more for the games or just continue ignoring and go in completely blind. Haven’t decided yet.

 

[Samtendo09]

A bunch of Megas should've been straight up evos. Any mon that wasn't a 3rd stage one shouldn't even have gotten one in the first place.

Mawile, Sableye, Glalie and Audino really stand out because of this. Barring lol Huge Power, Mega Mawile would be perfectly ok as a standard evo for Mawile.

Now Mawile is probably stuck as a terrible mon until Megas return. What a boneheaded idea.

I second it wholeheartedly. This is why I vehemently disagree with giving Mega Evolution for Pokémon that have yet to reached third stage in the first place unless their BST is already pretty high (i.e. Aerodactyl, Gyarados), since all it succeeded is to pressure yourself to stick with the best of the best Mega Evolution instead of trying out a full party of the new additions.

Mega Evolution should not be treated as a full solution. Especially now that it won’t stick around in mainline games for a long time.

 

[Worldie]

Mega Evolution should not be treated as a full solution. Especially now that it won’t stick around in mainline games for a long time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt there one of the interviews regarding SM development, where the original plan was to actually not have the megas in the game at all (so basically, the mechanic was never meant to be available in future gens), and it was only changed later in the development?

 

[Samtendo09]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt there one of the interviews regarding SM development, where the original plan was to actually not have the megas in the game at all (so basically, the mechanic was never meant to be available in future gens), and it was only changed later in the development?

Either way, they likely obliged due to how massively popular Mega Evolution were at the time, but it’s only when they realized the balance issues it will cause even more if Mega Evolution stuck around that they just can’t keep it around in long term, especially since Game Freak wanted to try a new super gimmick each generation from Gen 6 forward.

It’s telling not even Dynamax have made quite an impact popularity-wise, even if it were ultimately more balanced in VGC, even if slightly. Though that have more to do with the issues it caused in other official competitive scenes like Battle Spots and Smogon.

 

[R_N]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt there one of the interviews regarding SM development, where the original plan was to actually not have the megas in the game at all (so basically, the mechanic was never meant to be available in future gens), and it was only changed later in the development?

I don't recall them mentioning this.

I'm not fulling ruling it out, but also it reads exactly like weird fan theory that just gets passed around as fact

 

[QuentinQuonce]

I always just took it as read that Gen VII maintained Mega Evolution because, being on the same hardware as Gen VI, it was simpler to leave it in than cut it out. Much as BW were likely built off a heavily modified version of DPP (which in turn was built off the Gen III engine), SM were probably developed using XY or ORAS as a starting point.