And the circle continues.Make that Skarmory wear a Rocky Helmet. Also, Ferrothorn/Umbreon can do the job with a Rocky Helmet.
And the circle continues.Make that Skarmory wear a Rocky Helmet. Also, Ferrothorn/Umbreon can do the job with a Rocky Helmet.
Umbreon can't take anything from Kanga, not even gonna bother calcing that. Skarmory is two hit koed by +2 return, Ferrothorn just dies.Make that Skarmory wear a Rocky Helmet. Also, Ferrothorn/Umbreon can do the job with a Rocky Helmet.
No, Ferrothorn does NOT get the job done if it has to die just to weaken it.Make that Skarmory wear a Rocky Helmet. Also, Ferrothorn/Umbreon can do the job with a Rocky Helmet.
You're also calc'ing against a regular Kangaskhan (I did too and edited). So these percentages are even lower.252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 189-223 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 189-223 (45.6 - 53.8%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO (The set I run)
252+ SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kangaskhan: 346-408 (98.5 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kangaskhan: 346-408 (83.5 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So these require kanga to have already taken damage and gengar cannot take a sucker punch at all and even if kanga is not running sucker punch, a 252 hp kanga from full health survives a focus blast and retaliates killing gengar.
its worth it to lose part of your defensive core just to get Swept by something that loves having that mon or two gone? you have fun with that.sacrifice a wall to kill their mega? pretty worth it for me. im not saying its not broken, just saying there are ways to counter it as well.
Talonflame can't KO Khan and gets raped by ReturnLoads of pokémons can really counter Kangaskhan. A offensive threat for him is Talonflame.
Talonflame, with is high HP EVs + high ATK EVs can KO Kangas easily because he have his OP Gale Wing... Brave Bird/Acrobatics can do tons of damage to Kangas.
Gengar can also do damage to Kangas. He levitate, and it is Ghost, wich means that eliminates 3 of 4 attacks from Kangaskhan (If he cast Focus Blast can OHKO that Mega Kanga).
Well, this is my oppinion. Kengas should stay in Overused tier.
...........Make that Skarmory wear a Rocky Helmet. Also, Ferrothorn/Umbreon can do the job with a Rocky Helmet.
I just posted the calculations for BOLD FERROTHORN with Rocky Helmet, MegaKanga survives, badly damaged, but it survives. Why people never read? Umbreon gets trashed by PUP and Skarmory the better thing can do is to Whirlwind MegaKanga, not that it matters, because she can come in easily next turn.Make that Skarmory wear a Rocky Helmet. Also, Ferrothorn/Umbreon can do the job with a Rocky Helmet.
Make that Skarmory wear a Rocky Helmet. Also, Ferrothorn/Umbreon can do the job with a Rocky Helmet.
Umbreon can do the job with a Rocky Helmet.
Umbreon
Well, looks like I got to the party when it's going full steam.
I think that Mega Kangaskhan should not be banned.
I have personally made at least 5 teams around this guy in Pokebank, and Mega Kanga far from guarantees a win. It operates similar to any other sweeper, and has just as many checks. Volcarona has Heatran, M-Kanga has Keldeo. Keldeo resits its only source of priority, and outspeeds and OHKOs it. All you have to do to stop a M-Kanga sweep is put in a Keldeo, and go for the Sacred Sword. STAB+ Super Effective will do Kanga in.
For non-anecdotal evidence, let me reference the last ban debate. Gengarite was banned for its capability to offer next to perfect support, without anything able to effectively oppose it. As the metagame has evolved up to this point, it seems to be leaning strongly towards physical defense. Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Forretress, and others are becoming more and more prevalent than ever, while special cannons like Latios and special walls like Blissey are being substituted for things that can handle physical hits as well, like Heatran. This is due in no small part to the physical threats of this generation, like Talonflame, M-Luke, Char-X, M-Kanga, Aegislash, and others. This means that removing a physical threat like Kanga will not fix or alter the flow of the meta. It will simply be one less threat for teams to deal with, instead of something that can help shape the meta due to how teams prepare for it.
In reference to the "Portrait of an Uber" thread, this is what is listed as the qualities for an offensive Uber:
Kanga has the "capable of sweeping through a signifigant portion of teams" part down pat, and that is where all of the adversion to it seems to be coming from. However, it is unable to follow through on the integral "little effort" section. As with most sweepers, certian threats on the opposing team must be dealt with before attempting a sweep. For Volcarona, it is Stealth Rocks, Rock Types, and Heatran. For Dragonite, it's status setters, Faries, Ice Shard carriers, and things like Vaporeon. For Aegislash, it's WoW carriers, Normal types, and faster mons with Earthquake. You get the point. For Kanga, the list is no shorter. Before you can get to sweeping, you need to get rid of the opponent's Sableyes, Quagsires, Ferrothorns, Rocky Helmet (and Roar) Skarmory, M-Lucario, Fighting types with priority (Read Mach Punch), and Ghost types. If there is a Ghost type still alive, Kanga CANNOT sweep (assuming it is played well). Many ghosts carry WoW, which cripples Kanga without PuP, and ones with it cannot use it on a ghost type. Jellicent, Sableye, Dusclops can all do this well. Then, their only fear is a Shadow Claw, but if Kanga is carrying that, it allows Ferrothorn to take it to meet its maker. If the opposing team is running any good form of physical defense on their team, a large ammount of effort is required for Kanga to sweep, which, by definition, makes it not Ubers.
Kanga is also very susceptible to passive damage. With Drain Punch as it's only form of effective (offensive) recovery, it has a hard time staying the battle unless it can pull of a sweep. Priority, status (Esp. Burn), Stealth Rocks, and Spikes all keep Kanga's number of switch-ins limited. If it chooses to run Drain Punch it must give up one of the things that makes it such a potent sweeper: Priority, Strong STAB, Boosting, or Coverage. "But what about Wish/Seismic Toss?" By definition, that is not a sweeper. It hits hard, yes. However, it does not have the sweeping prowess of normal M-Kanga. Seismic Toss is also reasonably gimmicky, since it (again) cannot deal with Ghosts, anything with a reasonable amount of bulk that runs substitute (and let's be honest; most things with a large ammount of HP bulk love to run sub). It also has to 2HKO, since almost nothing in OU has less than 200 HP. This allows opponents to switch in Ghosts, Recover, or hit Kanga with status.
In closing, Kanga is good, but it is nothing new. I would support suspect testing it, but under no circumstances should it be insta-banned. It does not have the ability to sweep the Meta unopposed, and therefore does not fit the qualification for an Uber. It is not uncounterable. If it wants to live long enough to take advantage of its bulk, it has to diminish its sweeping capabilities. If it goes defensive, it becomes easier to counter, and only succeeds in changing its counters, not removing them.
sacrifice a wall to kill their mega? pretty worth it for me. im not saying its not broken, just saying there are ways to counter it as well.
Ha. Ha. Ha.there are ways to counter it as well.
Yeh, when Umbreon gets brought up as a physical wall (which it sucks at, it's much better specially defensive), with rocky helmet no less, you know somethings very wrong XD!
can i like this more than once?Ha. Ha. Ha.
Countering means you can come in 100% of the time on a set, survive 2/3+ hits and force it out because of it, while also having possible instant recovery in order to this repeatedly. Remember that and then decide if ferro "counters" MKhan.
And as I was typing another can of already used crappy arguments was opened.
Guys, if the fact that all is already said doesn't deter you, at least read the first ten pages of this thread before posting, gdi.
as i fucking say it.I don't feel Mega-Kanga should be ubers. It can easily be countered by Mega-Lucario and Skarmory.
Kanga runs Crunch far more than EQ, And Trevenant gets destroyed by it.Trevenant is a perfect example of a kangaskhan counter. Switch it into an easily predictable power-up-punch, (all kangas carry this now) use will-o-wisp on the even more predictable sucker punch or switch. If he stays, he's burned and has no ability to boost against trev. If he switches, whatever he decided to switch in is now burned. If he stayed in that turn, then you can either switch and take whatever he dishes, or stay, and set up a leech seed/attack. Kangaskhan is great, he has fair bulk, crazy attack, and a decent moveset. Not a movepool; a moveset. One moveset. There is no variety, so prediction is easy as taking candy from a baby. In addition; Aegislash exists now. I don't believe that I need to explain.
You switch Trevenant into Pup, except it's crunch. You will-o-wisp next turn, but get crunched again and are now dead. Mega Khan has taken 0 damage. Now what?Trevenant is a perfect example of a kangaskhan counter. Switch it into an easily predictable power-up-punch, (all kangas carry this now) use will-o-wisp on the even more predictable sucker punch or switch. If he stays, he's burned and has no ability to boost against trev. If he switches, whatever he decided to switch in is now burned. If he stayed in that turn, then you can either switch and take whatever he dishes, or stay, and set up a leech seed/attack. Kangaskhan is great, he has fair bulk, crazy attack, and a decent moveset. Not a movepool; a moveset. One moveset. There is no variety, so prediction is easy as taking candy from a baby. In addition; Aegislash exists now. I don't believe that I need to explain.
Please people, it was mentioned already, just use crunch and all those ghosts disappear except one : SableyeTrevenant is a perfect example of a kangaskhan counter. Switch it into an easily predictable power-up-punch, (all kangas carry this now) use will-o-wisp on the even more predictable sucker punch or switch. If he stays, he's burned and has no ability to boost against trev. If he switches, whatever he decided to switch in is now burned. If he stayed in that turn, then you can either switch and take whatever he dishes, or stay, and set up a leech seed/attack. Kangaskhan is great, he has fair bulk, crazy attack, and a decent moveset. Not a movepool; a moveset. One moveset. There is no variety, so prediction is easy as taking candy from a baby. In addition; Aegislash exists now. I don't believe that I need to explain.
Oh, God, I cannot deal with these circular arguments... I don't know if laugh or cry. Trevenant cannot counter MegaKanga and it gets killed by Crunch.Trevenant is a perfect example of a kangaskhan counter. Switch it into an easily predictable power-up-punch, (all kangas carry this now) use will-o-wisp on the even more predictable sucker punch or switch. If he stays, he's burned and has no ability to boost against trev. If he switches, whatever he decided to switch in is now burned. If he stayed in that turn, then you can either switch and take whatever he dishes, or stay, and set up a leech seed/attack. Kangaskhan is great, he has fair bulk, crazy attack, and a decent moveset. Not a movepool; a moveset. One moveset. There is no variety, so prediction is easy as taking candy from a baby. In addition; Aegislash exists now. I don't believe that I need to explain.
I don't feel Mega-Kanga should be ubers. It can easily be countered by Mega-Lucario and Skarmory.
That One Moveset is enough to destroy most of the metagame. Aegislash is destroyed by EQ and Crunch.Trevenant is a perfect example of a kangaskhan counter. Switch it into an easily predictable power-up-punch, (all kangas carry this now) use will-o-wisp on the even more predictable sucker punch or switch. If he stays, he's burned and has no ability to boost against trev. If he switches, whatever he decided to switch in is now burned. If he stayed in that turn, then you can either switch and take whatever he dishes, or stay, and set up a leech seed/attack. Kangaskhan is great, he has fair bulk, crazy attack, and a decent moveset. Not a movepool; a moveset. One moveset. There is no variety, so prediction is easy as taking candy from a baby. In addition; Aegislash exists now. I don't believe that I need to explain.
Crunch and Trevenant will be gooooooooooooooneTrevenant is a perfect example of a kangaskhan counter. Switch it into an easily predictable power-up-punch, (all kangas carry this now) use will-o-wisp on the even more predictable sucker punch or switch. If he stays, he's burned and has no ability to boost against trev. If he switches, whatever he decided to switch in is now burned. If he stayed in that turn, then you can either switch and take whatever he dishes, or stay, and set up a leech seed/attack. Kangaskhan is great, he has fair bulk, crazy attack, and a decent moveset. Not a movepool; a moveset. One moveset. There is no variety, so prediction is easy as taking candy from a baby. In addition; Aegislash exists now. I don't believe that I need to explain.
Thanks God, someone with common sense.Why do people think throwing something at MKhan like throwing a Virgin Sacrifice to a Pagan god is a counter pokemon?
OH NOT AGAIN WITH THAT.Please pick a random number between 1 and 32 go to the corresponding page of this thread, read some post on that page and you'll find why you're WRONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG.I don't feel Mega-Kanga should be ubers. It can easily be countered by Mega-Lucario and Skarmory.
Welcome brother, we've been waiting for you lol.You know what? You bastards have actually managed to convince me that it is banworthy. In practice, it doesn't seem that bad, since you can usually kill it with team support.
But that's the problem:
You can't kill this thing without team support. Whatever would be considered a traditional "counter" it has a way around. If you go for defense, it can carry something to push through it, without much harm. You'll need to sacrifice anything short of Sableye/Evio Dusclops (Thanks, Edgar81539) to be able to kill it with the next thing you send in. I don't think anything short of a fully setup sweeper could do that Gen V. If you go for offense, it can, and will kill you on the switch in. Offensive countering to it is not reactionary, it must be preset to deal with Kanga. If the opponent can predict your Lucario or Terrak switch-in, your counter is dead to a PuP, and you're sunk. The only way for you to win that matchup is to get them to mispredict, or be in before Kanga bears its face. Sorry anti-banners, I just can't justify keeping it OU.