chi-yu with ~194 effective SpA, Incineroar typing, and the fact that it's literally a goldfish cracker
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I ranked all 171 type combinations
- Thread starter Cancel cult
- Start date
im done with the new draft
now to color code it
now to color code it
- Awesome, but Impractical:
- The "Rampardos Theorem" that is frequently discussed is a demonstration of this trope, as many Pokemon are described as having monstrous, unstoppable power on paper, but in practice range from merely average (such as Porygon-Z or Xurkitree) or downright useless (such as Slaking or the titular Rampardos) for one reason or another. Not even the Ubers Tier are immune to this effect; Reshiram boasts the unresisted note STAB combo of Dragon/Fire, and can 2-hit KO just about anything in Gen 5. However, its inability to switch in safely, vulnerability to entry hazards, and middling speed (which only got worse over the generations) rendered it impractical to use. And when Kyurem-White was released and did everything Reshiram did but better, Reshiram was rendered unviable.
this is a backup, incase i do anything stupid.
thank you for that. it was a huge help.
also, i think steel fairy is overrated. still very good, but not top three material.
i have a spreadsheet for this, but in order to provide it i have to do a whole song and dance to make sure i dont leak my identity.
ill probably supply it this afternoon.
ill probably supply it this afternoon.
So in a vacuum, that is, valuing weakness/resistance against each type as equal (i.e. resistance against Rock is valued as useful as resistance against Normal for example, which may not be the case in practice with things like Stealth Rock), Steel/Fairy is probably the best defensive typing, as it has the highest number of resistances/immunities minus number of weaknesses with 9 (11 minus 2). It's tied with Normal/Steel and Steel/Electric, but unlike the two, Steel/Fairy has no double weakness.
Offensively it'd be Ground/Ice, which hits super effective against 109/171 typings and is only resisted by 2 typings (x0.5 against Bug/Water and Bug/Ice). The only typing resisted by 1 typing is Fighting/Ghost, but it's a x0 against Normal/Ghost.
You can check the full statistics here.
Now, evaluating at both defensive and offensive aspects is rather tricky. My idea is to have each of the 171 typings face off one another. During each matches, say between typing A/B against typing C/D (A the same as B and C the same as D, to account monotypes), I calculate which of A and B has the better effectiveness (x4, x2, x1, x0.5, x0.25, or x0) against typing C/D, let's call this effectiveness as max(A/B). Likewise I calculate max(C/D), then compare max(A/B) with max(C/D). If max(A/B)>max(C/D) then typing A/B wins the match, and if vice versa then typing C/D wins the match, otherwise it's a draw.
With number of wins minus number of losses as the basis for the ranking, the best typings are Flying/Steel (96 minus 35, also the highest number of wins), Flying/Ground, and Ground/Fire (both 91 minus 30). The lowest number of losses is Water/Dragon with 17.
The full table can be checked here.
All of the above are somewhat impractical, but I still find them interesting to share.
Offensively it'd be Ground/Ice, which hits super effective against 109/171 typings and is only resisted by 2 typings (x0.5 against Bug/Water and Bug/Ice). The only typing resisted by 1 typing is Fighting/Ghost, but it's a x0 against Normal/Ghost.
You can check the full statistics here.
Now, evaluating at both defensive and offensive aspects is rather tricky. My idea is to have each of the 171 typings face off one another. During each matches, say between typing A/B against typing C/D (A the same as B and C the same as D, to account monotypes), I calculate which of A and B has the better effectiveness (x4, x2, x1, x0.5, x0.25, or x0) against typing C/D, let's call this effectiveness as max(A/B). Likewise I calculate max(C/D), then compare max(A/B) with max(C/D). If max(A/B)>max(C/D) then typing A/B wins the match, and if vice versa then typing C/D wins the match, otherwise it's a draw.
With number of wins minus number of losses as the basis for the ranking, the best typings are Flying/Steel (96 minus 35, also the highest number of wins), Flying/Ground, and Ground/Fire (both 91 minus 30). The lowest number of losses is Water/Dragon with 17.
The full table can be checked here.
All of the above are somewhat impractical, but I still find them interesting to share.
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This is really cool, even if I can understand the concept behind both yours and OP’s methodology. This version reminds me a lot of my comparative ranking for the single Types that I worked on at one point. The way I measured the Types, I looked at W-L-D (win-loss-draw) percentage and head-to-head matchups between any potential tiebreakers. Could I have your (and possibly OP’s) permission to work with these statistics you found? I want to see if I can use my methodology to find the best and worst dual types too.
Edit: I just noticed that me doing so would require me to have edit access, so scratch that request.
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Can't you File->Download it? You can use them.
i abandoned this project a while ago, but if people are still interested in it, i might continue it. im currently redoing the offence part.
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ive decided i will just redo the entire tier list, as my metric for grading it has changed. i will tell you this metric now.
defence: this is the most important category, as unless you have a speed of at least 105, you are almost guarenteed to have to worry about this greatly. ice ground might be a good offencive typing, but if you arent fast enough to go first, that fighting weakness is a serious liability. weakness in general is part of this metric, but there are five types that have priority over the rest.
1. ground. ground is almost universally considered to be the best offensive type in the game, mostly because of its incredible matchup chart, but also because everyone and their mother learns earthquake. almost any physical attacker that can run earthquake will, and about a fifth of all pokemon are capable of running it. out of the 45 pokemon in ou at the time of writing this, 19 can learn earthquake. thats almost half of all pokemon in ou. being weak to ground is very bad if you plan on taking attacks.
2. fighting. fighting is kind of like grounds younger brother. they are the only types to be supereffective against five types, and they are both on a lot of pokemon. however, fighting is a bit two similar to ground, as two of the types it hits supereffectively are also hit supereffectively by ground, meaning it often competes with ground. in adition, the most commonly run fighting move is close combat, which has 120 base power at the cost of lowering your defences. while this is great for fast sweepers, it is less great for slow wallbreakers. and if you dont run close combat, you usually have to settle for brick break or drain punch, which are both 75 base power. and if you are a special attacker, you probobly have to rely on focus blast, and focus blast is anything but reliable. still, a lot of pokemon will have fighting moves, so you dont want to be caught with a fighting weakness.
3. rock. rock is a great attacking type, but unfortunately every physical rock move that is known by more than one pokemon has a big flaw of some sort, and every special rock move that is known by more than one pokemon is known by two pokemon. rock still has a meta presence though, thanks to stealth rocks. while resisting stealth rocks isnt that big of a deal, being weak to stealth rocks often is. you wont notice a 6% decreace, but you very much will notice a 12% increase. but thanks to the recent rise in minimum wage, boots are now afordable, and the amount of unfortunate pokemon who have died due to foot infections has fallen dramatically. still, the world would be a far more dangerous place if volcarona could run focus sash.
4. ice. ice is a pretty good offensive type, hitting four types for super effective damage. what seperates it from fire is its synergy with ground. ground and ice together hit half of all pokemon, and only seven pokemon in the game (that cant levitate) resists it. and if the ice move is freeze dry, god help you. unfortunately, while not rare, ice is not a particularly common type, and physical ice moves are notoriously sub-par. still, a special atacker that can learn ice beam will usually do so.
5. bug. a bug weakness might as well just be called a u-turn weakness. a fairly large amount of pokemon run u-turn, and while being weak to it isnt the end of the world, because u turn is rather weak, it certainly is annoying. good luck switching into your sneasler counter if you lose half your health to u turn while sneasler gets to run away, idiot. being weak to u turn turns chip damage into real damage and real damage into death.
offence:offence is rated by how many type combos you can hit for stab super effective damage, and how many pokemon resist your stab. in general, a high weak% is good for wallbreakers, while a low resist% is good for sweepers. i ranked the type combos instead of the pokemon because 1, i dont want to redo this tier list every gen, 2, because tera, and 3, because not all 500 water types are actually good, and people probobly wont have all ten ground types in ou on one team, because focusing on the identical niches majority leaves you blind to the only pokemon capable of performing a very important niche. no type combos are in order of particular importance, because while you want to attack with a type that is good against many pokemon, all pokemon will be attacked, so choosing what defensive types are the best wont help you that much when choosing your coverage.
defence: this is the most important category, as unless you have a speed of at least 105, you are almost guarenteed to have to worry about this greatly. ice ground might be a good offencive typing, but if you arent fast enough to go first, that fighting weakness is a serious liability. weakness in general is part of this metric, but there are five types that have priority over the rest.
1. ground. ground is almost universally considered to be the best offensive type in the game, mostly because of its incredible matchup chart, but also because everyone and their mother learns earthquake. almost any physical attacker that can run earthquake will, and about a fifth of all pokemon are capable of running it. out of the 45 pokemon in ou at the time of writing this, 19 can learn earthquake. thats almost half of all pokemon in ou. being weak to ground is very bad if you plan on taking attacks.
2. fighting. fighting is kind of like grounds younger brother. they are the only types to be supereffective against five types, and they are both on a lot of pokemon. however, fighting is a bit two similar to ground, as two of the types it hits supereffectively are also hit supereffectively by ground, meaning it often competes with ground. in adition, the most commonly run fighting move is close combat, which has 120 base power at the cost of lowering your defences. while this is great for fast sweepers, it is less great for slow wallbreakers. and if you dont run close combat, you usually have to settle for brick break or drain punch, which are both 75 base power. and if you are a special attacker, you probobly have to rely on focus blast, and focus blast is anything but reliable. still, a lot of pokemon will have fighting moves, so you dont want to be caught with a fighting weakness.
3. rock. rock is a great attacking type, but unfortunately every physical rock move that is known by more than one pokemon has a big flaw of some sort, and every special rock move that is known by more than one pokemon is known by two pokemon. rock still has a meta presence though, thanks to stealth rocks. while resisting stealth rocks isnt that big of a deal, being weak to stealth rocks often is. you wont notice a 6% decreace, but you very much will notice a 12% increase. but thanks to the recent rise in minimum wage, boots are now afordable, and the amount of unfortunate pokemon who have died due to foot infections has fallen dramatically. still, the world would be a far more dangerous place if volcarona could run focus sash.
4. ice. ice is a pretty good offensive type, hitting four types for super effective damage. what seperates it from fire is its synergy with ground. ground and ice together hit half of all pokemon, and only seven pokemon in the game (that cant levitate) resists it. and if the ice move is freeze dry, god help you. unfortunately, while not rare, ice is not a particularly common type, and physical ice moves are notoriously sub-par. still, a special atacker that can learn ice beam will usually do so.
5. bug. a bug weakness might as well just be called a u-turn weakness. a fairly large amount of pokemon run u-turn, and while being weak to it isnt the end of the world, because u turn is rather weak, it certainly is annoying. good luck switching into your sneasler counter if you lose half your health to u turn while sneasler gets to run away, idiot. being weak to u turn turns chip damage into real damage and real damage into death.
offence:offence is rated by how many type combos you can hit for stab super effective damage, and how many pokemon resist your stab. in general, a high weak% is good for wallbreakers, while a low resist% is good for sweepers. i ranked the type combos instead of the pokemon because 1, i dont want to redo this tier list every gen, 2, because tera, and 3, because not all 500 water types are actually good, and people probobly wont have all ten ground types in ou on one team, because focusing on the identical niches majority leaves you blind to the only pokemon capable of performing a very important niche. no type combos are in order of particular importance, because while you want to attack with a type that is good against many pokemon, all pokemon will be attacked, so choosing what defensive types are the best wont help you that much when choosing your coverage.
Normal/Steel type combination mentioned. Having Steel's resists PLUS a Ghost immunity will always be badass.
ive finished the draft for the new rankings. keep in mind these may be subject to change. they can be found in the attached pdf.
I take personal offense at goddamn MALMAR being ranked above MY lokix you fix this right now I stg
did i hear you besmirch our cephalopod overlords? this blasphemy will not be taken lightly.
in all seriousness, the ranking is based off the type, not the pokemon. volcarona works in spite of its type, not because of it.
ive finished the tier list. once i get the draft ready, we will have our new tier list.
also, while I was working on it, i noticed some things about the chart i made for this that were incorect. I fixed those, but i did not check the entire chart for errors, as this project already took long enough. so keep in mind that there is a small chance that some of the numbers i present in my explenations may be incorrect. this wont matter that much in the long run, but it is important to be honest. if anyone does feel like checking the entire chart, let me know, and i will give you a copy of it.
also, while I was working on it, i noticed some things about the chart i made for this that were incorect. I fixed those, but i did not check the entire chart for errors, as this project already took long enough. so keep in mind that there is a small chance that some of the numbers i present in my explenations may be incorrect. this wont matter that much in the long run, but it is important to be honest. if anyone does feel like checking the entire chart, let me know, and i will give you a copy of it.
i created a poll because i cant decide what order the types should be in on the combos, so you decide for me.
what the heck is book order?
when i was younger, there was a big pokemon book i had. It looked like this.
in the book, there was a section where it listed all the types, but it was in an order i have not seen anywhere else except future editions of this book. this was how i memorized the types, and to this day, the types go in this order in my head:
Fire, Grass, Water, Normal, Electric, Bug, Ghost, Flying, Fighting, Psychic, Steel, Rock, Ground, Ice, Poison, Dark, Dragon, Fairy.
ok, the book order thing was put there as a joke, im changing the pole so you can vote for 2 options, that way you can clown on me and give me data at the same time.
oh my god i had that book too; I used to be able to quote their entries from heart. the nostalgia
