Hole Punchers, Inc.

[anti404]

hi all, I have been working on variants of this team for about a month and a half now, but I can still not seem to burst over the 1350+CRE hump consistently.
the overall strategy of this team has remained fairly consistent: use typing synergy to wear down the similar counters of Pokemon(e.g. Milotic/Slowbro wall Hitmonlee/Arcanine/Azumarill to some extent, and using all three to wear them down until I can crack through and perform a sweep).
this was somewhat based on the idea of OU 'heavy offense', but in UU things don't hit quite as hard and so some changes were needed, e.g. placing a specially based attacker to more readily handle Tangrowth/Hitmontop/Regirock/etc.

Intro the breach, meatbags; eh, or not, whatever.​

Margot
252HP/252SpA/4Spe, Modest, @Lum Berry (Levitate)
Psychic, Grass Knot, Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave
this is a pretty standard Mesprit lead, with enough bulk to reliably set up the Pointed Stones and enough firepower to massively dent leads such as Hariyama, Kabutops, and Omastar. Thunder Wave is pretty much my most useless move; however, not much else is really worthwhile, though I am thinking of using Reflect or maybe Healing Wish instead. versus Ambipom I will generally switch to Spiritomb to take the Fake Out and leave a massive dent with Pursuit. Spiritomb leads are a problem that I am not sure how to address. against most others I set up Rocks and then move along. Lum Berry is an awesome item that I run on all leads I've used, as it allows them to either take a Sleep Powder from Venusaur/Jumpluff/Venomoth/Butterfree leads or to come back and absorb a crippling W-o-W.

Silas
252HP/252Atk/4SpD, Adamant, @Leftovers (Pressure)
Pursuit, Will-o-Wisp, Shadow Sneak, Sucker Punch
Spiritomb often functions as my scout, due to it's solid bulk, large amount of priority attacks, and Pursuit. it helps to beat other 'Sprit and Uxie leads, as well as Alakazam and Ambipom; with all of the Alakazam and CM Uxie/Mesprit leads running around, this guy proves invaluable to the team. his primary fault lies in his ease of being set up on.

Arden
32HP/252Atk/224Spe, Jolly, @Life Orb (Flash Fire)
ExtremeSpeed, Flare Blitz, Morning Sun, Toxic
Arcanine is a Poke who rarely seems to not be on a team of mine; not only does he have great synergy due to Flash Fire for my other sweepers, but he can pick off foes with ExtremeSpeed if necessary; Houndoom, Moltres, Venusaur are pretty annoying in this tier, and Arcanine is a decent check to them all. Toxic functions to not only wear down annoying Milotic who think they can switch in whenever they want and do whatever they want, but also helps with Slowbro, who beats the brakes off much of my team. I generally Toxic the first switch in and move accordingly afterwards. the speed EVs function to outspeed Timid Rotom.

Hiliard
4HP/252Atk/252Spe, Adamant, @Black Belt (Limber)
Close Combat, Mach Punch, Stone Edge, Sucker Punch
Hitmonlee is my pseduo wall-breaker if necessary, as his Close Combat busts through a majority of the physical walls in the tier, such as Milotic and Registeel, paving the way for others to sweep. Stone Edge hits any Moltres switch ins very hard, but also is useful to break unsuspecting ghosts who try to Substitute up, after which they often take a Sucker Punch to the face. Mach Punch helps to revenge certain defensive threats, such as weakened Milotic and Regirock; it can also OHKO Swellow after 2x Stealth Rock damage, which is very useful to this team indeed. this guy has proved to be the most useless on my team up to this point, however, dumb misplays are often the cause of this(and Stone Edge; how you miss with a HUGE EFFING STONE is beyond me). eating well predicted Thunder Waves and then turning into a wrecking ball is my best chance to switch in, but often I've mispredicted prior to this and cost him his fragile, fragile existence.

Afton
252HP/240Atk/16Spe, Adamant, Leftovers (Huge Power)
Substitute/Focus Punch/Aqua Jet/Ice Punch
SubPunch Azumarill is currently being inserted over Poliwrath, because he covers Moltres far better, and because Priority is so necessary in this metagame. also, pure Water is a better defensive typing offering Afton more chances to set up(e.g. Moltres, Psychics lacking Grass Knot, etc.)

Madalyn
4HP/252SpA/252Spe, Timid, @Life Orb (Static)
Flamethrower/Thunderbolt/Hidden Power(Grass)/Substitute
this is a Poke I've been placing onto my mostly physical and slower teams lately due to his amazing type coverage and high speed. he helps break down thick defensive walls such as Tangrowth and Leafeon, who are otherwise problematic to this team. furthermore, 105 base Speed is quite a blessing, as Manetric can easily take down such annoying threats as Moltres and Articuno. STAB Thunderbolt is one of the better attacks in this meta, also, as it easily disposes of most Slowbro and Milotic, who are quite troublesome to Arcanine and Poliwrath. Substitute is fantastic, because Manectric will often force a switch allowing for an easy setup, thus protecting it from Dugtrio and strong priority abusters in Absol, Houndoom, Arcanine, etc. this gal often wreaks the most havoc for my team, and thus has easily been MVP during this short testing phase.

Currently Testing:

Afton
252HP/240Atk/16Spe, Adamant, Leftovers (Huge Power)
Substitute/Focus Punch/Aqua Jet/Ice Punch
SubPunch Azumarill is currently being inserted over Poliwrath, because he covers Moltres far better, and because Priority is so necessary in this metagame. also, pure Water is a better defensive typing offering Afton more chances to set up(e.g. Moltres, Psychics lacking Grass Knot, etc.)

Flash Fire---> Intimidate: Arcanine can still absorb W-o-W, but being able to absorb random Fire Blasts may be too invaluable.
Thunder Wave is only rarely used on Mesprit; any advice?

Noticeable Threats(note: I'm not really sure how to write one of these, so I hope it's OK)
Offensive:
Absol: checked through priority, rarely gets a chance to set up.
Arcanine: Azumarill is my premiere check.
Aggron: Hitmonlee and Azumarill work around it.
Alakazam: Spiritomb checks.
Ambipom: Spiritomb checks this cat(monkey?) well.
Azumarill: Manectric hits it hard.
Blaziken: beaten through priority, Azumarill.
Drapion: SD variants are generally frail enough that Priority seems to hurt.
Feraligatr: rarely given a chance to set up, Manectric hurts.
Hariyama: Mesprit hits it hard.
Hitmonlee: Scarf variants with Earthquake are problematic.
Houndoom: Arcanine, Hitmonlee, Azumarill.
Kabutops: Hitmonlee and Azumarill punch through it.
Leafeon: SD variants hurt with Quick Attack, but Manectric can run through it.
Ludicolo: ?
Mismagius: Spiritomb, Stone Edge/Sucker Punch from Hitmonlee often beat through it.
Moltres: Azumarill, priority wear it down; SubRoost takes out my team if it gets a chance to Toxic Azumarill on the switch.
Nidoking: priority via Azumarill; lead variants can be brought down by Psychic.
Poliwrath: Mesprit, Manectric hit it pretty hard.
Rhyperior: checked through priority, Hidden Power: Grass if not set up.
Rotom: most often will expect a free switch in to Choiced Hitmonlee and is then taken care of via Stone Edge-->Sucker Punch; priority hurts it.
Scyther: checked via Stealth Rocks; anticipating the middling U-Turn is another option.
Sceptile: rarely do they carry Quick Attack, and can thus be dispatched via priority.
Spiritomb: annoying, but generally does not like taking Flare Blitz to the face.
Swellow: Spiritomb, Arcanine can take care of it via priority.
Torterra: fat and annoying; doesn't like getting smacked with priority or Close Combat.
Toxicroak: Arcanine is often my best check.
Venusaur: Arcanine and Manectric often serve as my best check; Scarfed variants can be annoying.
Defensive:
Blastoise: doesn't like eating Thunder Bolts or Grass Knots.
Chansey: Hitmonlee, Azumarill, Arcanine.
Clefable: similar to Chansey if using a defensive set.
Milotic: a skank that can be dealt with via Manectric and hit with Toxic on the switch.
Miltank: Hitmonlee, Azumarill, Arcanine can break through.
Regirock: annoying in the sand(can be hit with Toxic), not too hard to wear down outside of the sand.
Registeel: Hitmonlee, Azumarill can manage it.
Slowbro: Manectric and Toxic are my best options; Mesprit can do well, also.
Slowking: ?
Steelix: Azumarill, Hitmonlee.
Tangrowth: really can only rely on Manectric here.
Uxie: annoying as all hell; Spiritomb can hope to wear it down.
Weezing: Mesprit and Manectric are my best options.

 

[magic.]

Well,

As I was testing your team, there were a few things I discovered.
For one, as you yourself pointed out, you are immensely Swellow weak. While you do have the ability to weaken it and take it out with your abundance of priority users, if you lack the abilty to utilize the priority, you are done as half of your team is weak to the type. The threat carries over to Moltres, but not as much as Azumarill is a solid check to it and most of the time they switch out to a bulky water which works very favorably for you as from there you can start the switching around from Arcanine to Toxicroak.

When facing Rain Dance teams, I suggest you focus on two things. One, keep Toxicroak alive at all costs. Toxicroak is a valuable rain check as it can take on a vast majority of the opposing sweepers and recover great amount of HP every turn do to its ability. Next, focusing on stalling out rain is key, as usually Rain Dance users spam water attacks, make sure you do a good amount of switching to draw out the turns, and nail the incoming rain refresher for a good amount of damage. Without the refreshers the sweepers are too slow to wreak as much havok.

I would like to suggest somethings.
Firstly, change Sceptile's nature to Jolly. With Adamant you tie with Max+ 105's. Which can cause some unwanted headache when you lose necessary speed ties you should be able to easily win.
Second, Toxicroak does not really need Lum. WoW's are easy to see coming and isn't that what Arcanine is for? Exchange for Life Orb to net some more power.
Thirdly, DON'T get rid of Morning Sun. When I was testing, it proved invaluable more often than not. Gaining momentum is good, but throwing away your team members is not.

For your Sceptile I suggest running this set instead.

Sceptile @ Life orb / Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

While you lose 7% damage on Venusaur, you gain a solid attack to hit Moltres with. Thus you're not just relying on Azumarill to net the KO. On top of this, Sceptile does not really have a place taking on Venusaur as there are so many special variants running around with Sludge Bomb.

One threat I found threatening was :
- Absol.
If it gets off a swords dance, you're done. It's sucker punches and general coverage moves will rip apart your team which lacks needed defense. Even if you get a burn on it, it can and will bypass it with more SD's. Watch out.

As a whole your team is very solid, it got me a win on a very high ranked player and if played right can do you very well.

 

[anti404]

Well,

As I was testing your team, there were a few things I discovered.
For one, as you yourself pointed out, you are immensely Swellow weak. While you do have the ability to weaken it and take it out with your abundance of priority users, if you lack the abilty to utilize the priority, you are done as half of your team is weak to the type. The threat carries over to Moltres, but not as much as Azumarill is a solid check to it and most of the time they switch out to a bulky water which works very favorably for you as from there you can start the switching around from Arcanine to Toxicroak.

When facing Rain Dance teams, I suggest you focus on two things. One, keep Toxicroak alive at all costs. Toxicroak is a valuable rain check as it can take on a vast majority of the opposing sweepers and recover great amount of HP every turn do to its ability. Next, focusing on stalling out rain is key, as usually Rain Dance users spam water attacks, make sure you do a good amount of switching to draw out the turns, and nail the incoming rain refresher for a good amount of damage. Without the refreshers the sweepers are too slow to wreak as much havok.

I would like to suggest somethings.
Firstly, change Sceptile's nature to Jolly. With Adamant you tie with Max+ 105's. Which can cause some unwanted headache when you lose necessary speed ties you should be able to easily win.
Second, Toxicroak does not really need Lum. WoW's are easy to see coming and isn't that what Arcanine is for? Exchange for Life Orb to net some more power.
Thirdly, DON'T get rid of Morning Sun. When I was testing, it proved invaluable more often than not. Gaining momentum is good, but throwing away your team members is not.

For your Sceptile I suggest running this set instead.

Sceptile @ Life orb / Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

While you lose 7% damage on Venusaur, you gain a solid attack to hit Moltres with. Thus you're not just relying on Azumarill to net the KO. On top of this, Sceptile does not really have a place taking on Venusaur as there are so many special variants running around with Sludge Bomb.

One threat I found threatening was :
- Absol.
If it gets off a swords dance, you're done. It's sucker punches and general coverage moves will rip apart your team which lacks needed defense. Even if you get a burn on it, it can and will bypass it with more SD's. Watch out.

As a whole your team is very solid, it got me a win on a very high ranked player and if played right can do you very well.

firstly, thanks for the in-depth rate.
now, I use Lum on Toxicroak primarily due to how I use him in my general game-plan; that is, he will often go in on an early Milotic/CB Azumarill/Blastoise switch, forcing them out and setting up SD. their switch in will generally try to put me to sleep, or inflict some other form of status, at which point I can most likely 2HKO them. in my first draft of the team, Life Orb was attached to 'Croak, but I have found Lum to be ridiculously invaluable.
my general idea with Swellow is to switch in Spiritomb on a likely attack, then Sucker Punch the likely U-Turn out.
I'll definitely test Jolly on Sceptile, as I thought he outsped 105s with Adamant(guess I was wrong...>_>); I'll also play around with Rock Slide, but Double-Edge has just been a wrecking ball in my matches, netting KOs versus opposing Venusaurs, Sceptiles, Moltres, etc. on another team I used Rock Slide, and I noticed that I have used D-E far more.
Morning Sun will probably be kept on Arcanine for two main reasons: it helps out versus Sucker Punch users and his move pool is so very shallow.
SD Absol is quite a threat once set up, but the basic idea of this team is to keep pressure on the opposing team so that set-up doesn't occur; should this ideal plan go awry, I have included W-o-W on 'Tomb(SD Absol was one of the biggest reasons, to be honest).

thanks again.

 

[IronBullet]

Hi,

First off, a pretty solid team. However, I can see that strong Rock Polishers such as Aggron and Torterra are likely to run through this team, along with DD Feraligatr. You don't pack a reliable check to them, as Spiritomb will likely not be able to survive an LO Head Smash or Wood Hammer. So, I'd suggest replacing Spiritomb with a Scarf Rotom. It provides you with an excellent check to speed boosters, Swellow, and Rain, while providing you with an important Ground immunity:

Rotom@Choice Scarf
252 Sp Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Timid
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
- HP Ice/Will-O-Wisp

On Pinsir, SD seems a bit iffy as Pinsir's primary job is to set up SR, and defeat common leads, which usually doesn't require a boost. So, I'd suggest changing the item to Focus Sash and replacing Swords Dance with Quick Attack, which allows you to finish off frail leads such as Alakazam and Kabutops.

Azumarill is your main check to Fire types, but with a Life Orb and Double-Edge it's not likely to last very long. So, I'd suggest replacing it with a set with better survivability, namely the SubPunch set. It doesn't lose important KOs on any Fire type, and allows Azumarill to switch in continuosly throughout the game.

On Arcanine, try Toxic over Thunder Fang. Thunder Fang does too less to Bulky Waters to cause any real damage, while Toxic means that they are crippled for the rest of the match, reducing their ability to come in and wall you continuosly.

Nice team, and gl.

 

[anti404]

hi IronBullet,
SubPunch Azumarill is a neat option that I will try out. my primary qualm with it is the whole four move-slot things, but with my current team makeup, Substitute/Focus Punch/Aqua Jet/Ice Punch is probably best, as it gives the most coverage while retaining it's revenge killing capabilities.
Thunder Fang is nice on Arcanine not only for hitting Bulky waters, but also for carving up flying types; furthermore, Toxic activates Milo's ability, which is downright horrifying to this team comprised of solely physical sweepers. however, Thunderfang is pretty underwhelming, hitting for the same as a Flash Fired Flare Blitz.

the use of Choiced Pokes on this team have often left me underwhelmed, as they generally act as straight set-up bait, something a team lacking defensive pivots quite despises.

I'll be testing some of the recommended changes, particularly the SubPunch Azu, Toxic on Canine, and Jolly Sceptile suggestions.

 

[anti404]

okay, I've made a very large amount of changes; however, much of the team has still remained intact in some form or another.
Arcanine has been given Toxic over Thunder Fang, as the latter completely renders Arcanine completely unable to do anything to Rock type switches, and Thunder Fang was rarely powerful enough on a Choice Band lacking 'Canine.
Toxicroak was replaced with Hitmonlee because I feel that the instant power granted will help wear down Slowbro and Milotic more easily, though the jury is still out on this.
Azumarill was changed to Sub Punch as recommended by IB93 to better keep fire types in check.
Manectric has replaced Sceptile, so that although a late game cleaner remains, I can better break through physical walls, e.g. Tangrowth.
Mesprit has replaced Pinsir's once prominent position as a lead so that I have another way to break through physical walls, via Grass Knot and Psychic.
I feel that these changes are abundant enough that this thread can be bumped, as per the rules.

 

[Orcelot005]

First off, why is your Manectric Jolly? I'm assuming that's a typo but if it isn't then change that to Timid.

I would be using Azumarill over Poliwrath if I were you to help with your slight Moltres weakness, Azumarill gets encore aswell so you can still use the same set if you like. If you do decide to stick with Poliwrath though, then you defiantly want to give it at least 96 speed EVs, this beats Milotic that invest nothing in speed since you don't want to be switching Poliwrath into a Milotic's surf only to be hit by toxic or whatever before you can encore it or get behind a sub, if you want to outrun Milotic that run enough speed to beat Adamant Torterra then you'll need to run 150 speed EVs, obviously you'll lose quite a bit of bulk but I think it's worth it.

You look a little bit weak to Rhyperior who can come in on any move spiritomb uses except WoW and Arcanine (even if you do manage to hit it with toxic it's still going to be able to damage your team before it goes down) Mespirit is really the only decent switch into Rhyperior that you have and if it has fainted you'll most likely have to sacrifice a poke every time Rhyperior gets a free switch in on Spiritomb or Arcanine. tbh, i'm not sure how you can fix this problem but I just thought I'd make you aware of it.

 

[anti404]

First off, why is your Manectric Jolly? I'm assuming that's a typo but if it isn't then change that to Timid.

I would be using Azumarill over Poliwrath if I were you to help with your slight Moltres weakness, Azumarill gets encore aswell so you can still use the same set if you like. If you do decide to stick with Poliwrath though, then you defiantly want to give it at least 96 speed EVs, this beats Milotic that invest nothing in speed since you don't want to be switching Poliwrath into a Milotic's surf only to be hit by toxic or whatever before you can encore it or get behind a sub, if you want to outrun Milotic that run enough speed to beat Adamant Torterra then you'll need to run 150 speed EVs, obviously you'll lose quite a bit of bulk but I think it's worth it.

You look a little bit weak to Rhyperior who can come in on any move spiritomb uses except WoW and Arcanine (even if you do manage to hit it with toxic it's still going to be able to damage your team before it goes down) Mespirit is really the only decent switch into Rhyperior that you have and if it has fainted you'll most likely have to sacrifice a poke every time Rhyperior gets a free switch in on Spiritomb or Arcanine. tbh, i'm not sure how you can fix this problem but I just thought I'd make you aware of it.

hi! firstly, thanks a lot for the rate.
I've actually been using the Azumarill posted as my main choice, and it works far better, as you said, due to Moltres being somewhat difficult to handle with the rest of my team; also, it has more bulk in comparison to Poliwrath, which is always a good thing.
Rhyperior has been a problem, but I'm not really sure what to do about; Subperior is the most problematic, because he will set up before I am able to do much about him.
and yeah, Jolly was a mistake, but I rewrote my this thread at about 4a.m.; changing, now.
edit: oh, and when using Poliwrath, I had instead been using 100 Spe EVs, or 201 Speed, thereby outpacing 8Spe Milotic.