SPOILERS! General Pokémon Anime Discussion

[precita]

Interesting is this is the second series in a row where the writers are allowed to do their own thing and not advertise the games much. Journey's didn't focus on Galar much and now this series has no Paldea characters at all. I wonder if something changed in the upper management allowing the writing staff more freedom, it always seemed like they were forced to advertise the new games immediately:

1. In Johto we watch Ash's Kanto starters slowly phased out and replaced with the Johto starters.
2. Hoenn of course has Misty gone and replaced with May as the female lead and the intro of Contests. Also Ash immediately dumps his entire Johto team at once for the first time to mirror the games and Ash only uses Hoenn Pokemon besides Pikachu
3. DP featured Dawn replacing May with Piplup heavily promoted doing the same Contests.
4. Iris and Cilan are immediately brought in for BW, axing Brock finally
5. XY features the Kalos cast
6. SM almost entirely featured the Alola characters

Every time we had a gen transition the writers had to immediately abandon old main characters and Ash's current team to advertise the next series. Nowadays we don't see that anymore. I honestly wonder if it's because the writers were more strictly mandated by whoever the upper management/executives are that told them each gen of the anime has to immediately advertise the new games...and this went on for 25 years...so it seems they had no choice.

Now it seems like they have freedom? Making a whole Pokemon anime with an all new cast, even finally allowed to drop Ash and Pikachu of all things, is pretty shocking. Other than the Paldea starters and I assume eventually the legendaries we have no Paldea advertisement at all this series so far.

 

[R_N]

My assumption is more the higher ups wanted to transition to Pokemon's various arms being generation-agnostic. Like there'll still be an effort to have more modern stuff in the forefront (see: the starters of Liko & Roy, the main pokemon of one of the main villains, etc) but Pokemon is a huge franchise with many facets and if you see something you like in one thing you're bound to get interested in another aspect eventually, whether that be a main line title, a spin off, the TCG, or any of the various merchandise lines.

Wouldn't surprise me if Dexit nudged that along a little, though the decision had likely been rattling around for a while.

I mean, hell, the Alola era of the anime had 3 films and none of them actually focused on Alola, only barely featued Gen 7 Pokemon, and 2 of them were in an AU & the third was a remake; they were basically a separate line of anime movies

 

[Pikachu315111]

Sad news. Carter Cathcart, the VA for Gary (as well as Professor Oak, James, & Meowth after the VA switch-up; he sometimes goes under the pseudonyms Billy Beach and Jimmy Zoppi) along with a whole slew of other characters and Pokemon (and not to mention voices he done on other shows) had to retire due to throat cancer (in addition to voice acting he was a script adapter too).

He's getting chemotherapy treatment though initial trial didn't work so they're going to be more aggressive with the next, which likely led him to deciding to retire to focus on his treatment. As the only VA for Gary, he's been with the Pokemon series since the first episode and all through the 25 years the anime has run had done voice work whenever needed. With the Pokemon series now entering a new era, while he no doubt could have continued providing voices had the cancer not happened, it's just as a good time to jump off. After 25 years, he deserves his retirement and hopefully the treatment is a success and he can spend the rest of his time with his family & friends knowing he left a legacy of voices; nostalgia to many and to entertain many more in the future.

 

[bdt2002]

It’s very upsetting to hear about what Carter Cathcart is going through right now, and I wish this dude the best. Even if I didn’t grow up with the parts of the show his characters were in (more specifically, the seasons with Gary in them), I understand a lot of people did.

Aside from this news, I’ve been really enjoying this new series so far. My opinions on the Pokémon “anime” haven’t exactly been popular over the years, but in recent years I’ve really started feeling like Ash was holding the show’s potential back significantly. This isn’t just case of “fresh blood” for me. As someone who enjoys free writing, I find it strange how the new cast has already left a stronger first impression on me than most of Ash’s duration did for years. And we’re only three episodes in!

I understand that the momentum Horizons has right now probably won’t last for too much longer, as more and more “filler episodes” start to roll in, but for the time being… dare I say, I think I might actually enjoy Liko and Roy more so far as overall characters. Ash may have 25 years of nostalgia in his favor for returning fans, but the inconsistency in his character development was laughable at times, and it never really felt like he had anything more specific to push for.

A few general predictions I have going forward for the series:

• The Shiny Rayquaza is going to be similar to how Koraidon and Miraidon are in the Scarlet & Violet games- more specifically, as a story-relevant character that isn’t actually seen battling until much later on
• Unlike the notable lack of The Isle of Armor and The Crown Tundra content in the Journeys series, I do actually think we’re going to see material from The Teal Mask and The Indigo Disk this time around, especially given the Pokémon inside Liko’s pendant
• Who this character would end up being I don’t know just yet, but I do expect that another character would come along sooner or later with an Armarouge, in an attempt to “match” the fact that Ceruledge is already used by a recurring character
• I’m going to try and keep this last one brief since I understand touching on this particular subject can be a bit… controversial, but for now, I’ll say that I absolutely wouldn’t be surprised if we already have a glimpse of “something involving each of the protagonists”, if you know what I mean
  

 

[Pikachu315111]

Who this character would end up being I don’t know just yet, but I do expect that another character would come along sooner or later with an Armarouge, in an attempt to “match” the fact that Ceruledge is already used by a recurring character

Or, being Amethio is sort of setup as an antagonist to Liko, she could get a Charcadet and evolve it into an Armarouge.

 

[pokemon4eva]

Just saw episode 3

Hide

Not as exciting as the prev 2 episodes but nice to see Liko now trusting the Volt Tackleers and assured to be Sprigatito's trainer, after what happened in episode 2. ALSO nice to see more of the personality of one of Amethio's cronies, being smitten by the kitty pokemon but still petty enough to steal it from Liko. Drampa guy is a mood, he's gonna be forever fishing on the same spot lol. But my favorite part was the ending song, so catchy and reminds me a bit of the 1st ending song of SM, mixed with the Pokerap. Next episode is Roy's debut, can't wait.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Episode 3 of Horizons is continuing to be great, and I'm loving the worldbuilding and character building we're getting with just these few episodes.

Liko's character is being set up really nicely, and even so she's getting a lot of great character development even from the get go and is already on her way to growing into a great Pokemon Trainer and her journey is very compelling. She's formed quite a team with Sprigatito and they're now very close, I'm glad to see how much character growth Liko is showing here from being unsure of herself into gaining the confidence to tackle challenges head on with Sprigatito at her side.

It seems the Rising Volt Tacklers were assigned by Liko's parents to be her bodyguard. And at the beginning her grandmother passed the pendant to Liko when she was younger, and it seems her grandmother knew the pendant would lead to her going on a journey of growth, but encouraged her to take on the challenges that await her and to embrace challenges for personal growth.

It's really refreshing to see a new protagonist with a new story after Ash held the mantle for so long.

In many ways, Liko is the antithesis of Ash, albeit in some ways the opposite side of the same coin.

Like Ash started out with a big dream and a grand ambition to become the greatest Trainer, started out a journey on his own, and was very full of himself and thought of himself as more than he was despite his overall incompetence, and had a lot of humbling to go through become a good Trainer and to forge a bond with his Pokemon. Liko on the other hand is more unsure of herself and has a lack of confidence, and has to really get the push from others (including her Sprigatito) to gain the courage to tackle challenges head on. Liko also didn't intentionally go out on a journey and instead found herself in a crossfire between factions because of a special gift she has, her pendant, and ends up having to go on a journey of growth and discovery.

And yet they both love Pokemon unabashedly, even if they show it in different ways. They both started off with a rocky start with their starters but handled it differently. Ash tried to force Pikachu into obeying him and had to prove his loyalty by putting his own life on the line for Pikachu, meanwhile Liko studied her Sprigatito extensively trying to get to know it better in a meticulous and cautious manner. In that sense Ash was more headstrong while Liko is more cautious.

Also they have different styles of recurring antagonists chasing after them, Liko dealing with the hardcore serious Explorers as opposed to the comic relief Team Rocket trio Ash had to deal with.

In general though I'm finding Liko very likable and relatable, and the series thus far is doing a great job at setting her up as a compelling protagonist, and I continue to greatly look forward to seeing her story unfold. Next week we'll be seeing Roy, and it seems Liko will meet him first and they will forge a great friendship. That's going to be fun: I just know Liko and Roy will make an excellent duo with a fun dynamic to boot.

 

[Yung Dramps]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1651662537505513478

Here's something nice that happened recently! Hisui taking another w.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Just finished watching Episode 4 of Horizons, and this episode we had Roy make his big debut.

Roy is already looking to be a fun and lovable character from the get go, and he's athletic, adventurous, and outgoing. He and Liko had a chance meeting but they already have a wonderful dynamic, and they're going to be great friends, I just know it. I can't wait to see how their bond develops over the course of the series as their stories unfold and they become a fantastic dynamic duo.

Also it seems Roy's mysterious Poke Ball reacted to Liko's pendant being around, and vice versa: Liko's pendant also reacted in the presence of Roy's ancient Poke Ball. It seems both mysterious treasures are associated with each other and connected, and Liko and Roy accordingly have their fates intertwined. At the end of the episode they parted ways...for now, but it seems they've still stuck in each others' minds because of this and fate will bring them back together next episode as Roy seemingly joins the Rising Volt Tacklers crew himself.

Friede is also close with Roy's grandfather it would seem. So a connection is there on Roy's end as well.

Also a cute detail but Fuecoco seems to love singing, albeit is shy about it. Nice tie-in to the fact that its final form Skeledirge is a singer who sings pleasant melodies. Roy and Fuecoco seem to have struck a close bond, and I wonder how their partnership will come to be next week.

Good episode overall, and a great introduction to Roy, our secondary protagonist. Looking forward to next week!

 

[Yung Dramps]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1653099501601652736

 

[R_N]

Wow that's a huge get to have, especially since, like I (& i'm sure many others) had figured, it's obvious they likely had to just cull a ton of the ideas they had for a running Plasma plotline. I've always figured Plasma would probably have been involved in any of the three or four "rocket tries to get New Power" plots but those got fully rewritten out of it (or written with the idea that they weren't "coming back").

From them waiting for the hero to show up, it kind of seems like in the anime continuity they Ghetsis may not have had N ready to go yet.


It is kind of funny that the entire meteonite plotline wound up doing nothing for either party. Giovanni dips entirely once he can't use it + once he hears about Plasma being around and then even though Plasma still wants to try using it Ghetsis also just pulls out saying actually the Hero didn't need it at all. Very goofy.


I wonder if Ghetsis' actor here was the same one as they'd use wayyyyy later in the actual Plasma arc.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Just finished watching the latest episode of Horizons. Roy and Fuecoco forging a bond with Roy singing and doing a pep chant for Fuecoco was cool, and I also liked seeing Liko using her experience with Sprigatito to give Roy advice and encourage him in terms of building a bond with Fuecoco.

Seems the Explorers got in the way again and this time Amethio is on his way to try to capture Liko...again...and the episode ended on a cliffhanger.

The plot continues to move forward. Awaiting next week's episode.

 

[XaCez]

I overall liked the episode, but having Liko beat Conia offscreen was disappointing. I understand that they tried to get in a lot of events into the second half, and had to cut something short as a result, but Liko is the main character. Even if the fight had just been click Leafage easy win, it'd still have served as a good follow-up to the earlier scene with her and Roy being anxious with their hands shaking. Felt like a missed opportunity to showcase Liko and Sprigatito's development over these opening episodes. Ohh well, if anything they may just be saving that for next week.

 

[pokemon4eva]

I overall liked the episode, but having Liko beat Conia offscreen was disappointing. I understand that they tried to get in a lot of events into the second half, and had to cut something short as a result, but Liko is the main character. Even if the fight had just been click Leafage easy win, it'd still have served as a good follow-up to the earlier scene with her and Roy being anxious with their hands shaking. Felt like a missed opportunity to showcase Liko and Sprigatito's development over these opening episodes. Ohh well, if anything they may just be saving that for next week.

Yeah I agree here, episode 5 was solid but it sucks that Liko's first battle won was completely offscreen. Instead we got Friede vs Amethio 4: Continental Drift. Which I don't think it's a good look as an antagonist that Amethio gets one upped constantly. It worked for Team Rocket since they're comedic goofballs, but these constant Ls don't work as well for Amethio tho. Which is why...

Hide

Introducing a new villain in Episode 6 seems very promising, someone who seems less honorable and more of a jerk than Amethio is going to highlight how better he is. Next episode looks like there's a mysterious crew member in the ship. Gee, which other character in the show has a Quaxly...

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Episode 6 was great, and Roy has joined the Rising Volt Tacklers and has made Fuecoco his partner.

It seems Roy's mysterious Poke Ball did in fact have a Shiny Rayquaza...and it reacted to Liko's pendant before leaving. This is going to be interesting.

Liko and Roy have an excellent dynamic thus far and I can't wait to see more of it in the future. Sometimes they share the same brain cell and sometimes Liko is roasting Roy's singing, this is gonna be great.

Yeah I agree here, episode 5 was solid but it sucks that Liko's first battle won was completely offscreen. Instead we got Friede vs Amethio 4: Continental Drift. Which I don't think it's a good look as an antagonist that Amethio gets one upped constantly. It worked for Team Rocket since they're comedic goofballs, but these constant Ls don't work as well for Amethio tho. Which is why...

Hide

Introducing a new villain in Episode 6 seems very promising, someone who seems less honorable and more of a jerk than Amethio is going to highlight how better he is. Next episode looks like there's a mysterious crew member in the ship. Gee, which other character in the show has a Quaxly...

I think Amethio getting 1-upped still works here despite the Explorers trio being a more serious group than the Team Rocket trio because the 1-ups are by Friede, who is basically a Professor and thoroughly experienced battler and is acting as Liko and Roy's bodyguard, as opposed to the Rocket trio getting 1-upped by Ash and Misty (and soon Brock) themselves in the original series. Horizons' cast structure has an adult group (Friede and his buddies) acting as bodyguards for Liko and Roy and basically being their mentors and crutches whereas Ash and his friends didn't have such a group at their side, early on it was just Ash and Misty, and later Ash, Misty, and Brock, and the Rocket Trio being comedically incompetent was driven in by the fact that two rookies took them down themselves early on, especially Ash who was hilariously incompetent compared to his competition (Gary and the other two mysterious Pallet Town trainers).

In the latest episode Liko and Roy go up against Ametho's Ceruledge themselves and they didn't really stand much of a chance (nearly got defeated by Ceruledge) until the Shiny Rayquaza appeared and unleashed a Draco Meteor prompting Amethio to retreat. Thus this still highlights how serious and competent Amethio and his squad are despite them getting 1-upped for story's sake, as Liko and Roy still don't have what it takes to deal with Amethio themselves and rely on Friede as a crutch, or in this case a sudden arrival of a mighty legendary.

It's also pretty interesting that the Big Boss of the Explorers, Gibeon, is much less forgiving of Amethio's failure than Giovanni was towards the Rocket Trio's failures despite both of them having the same "Incompetent fools, stop disappointing me!" mindset towards the respective trios. Amethio was straight up discharged from the mission due to his failure and it seems this other administrator of the Explorers, Spinel, will take on the mission of pursuing Liko and her pendant for a good while from here on while Amethio focuses on trying to win Gibeon's trust again by pursuing the Shiny Rayquaza. There's already a clear difference there despite both of them having that "mysterious boss" treatment.

 

[XaCez]

It's really episode 7 that truly puts the power levels to display. A very enjoyable training episode from all sides. I'll say that I find the Rising Volt Tacklers to be an incredibly enjoyable group of characters, and I'm looking forward to spending some time once per week to see them. Furthermore, I'm surprised that Nidothing is actually on the Brave Asagi, and looks to be more relevant than initially led on. I like this, since I just found them annoying, but now I'm intrigued, and I like being intrigued. Overall I'm very pleased with what Horizons has delivered so far, even if I've my pet peeves about some choices (like the aforementioned off-screen battle victory).

Something I'll also add about the villain shenanigans is that they give off a certain vibe that I'm all too familiar with from other anime series, specifically Precure. As a result, a villain taking constant losses isn't too big of a deal to me, as I've seen far, far worse than what Amethio has done up to this point. In fact I like these villains a lot; while losses have happened, you really can't blame Amethio for losing to a sudden appearance of a Rayquaza. I'd imagine most people in the Pokémon world wouldn't come prepared for that. Some villain in-fighting is also nice to see, as it gives them more character. So yeah, I like the villains, and I like the protagonists. It's good stuff in my mind.

Now to see how many more episodes we'll have to wait until we arrive in Paldea.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Oh yeah a bit late to talk about it but...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1659498388445073409

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1659506093637378048

Episode 7 revealed a glimpse of who "Nidothing"/"Gurumin" really is.

It seems to be a purple-haired girl, though her face is unknown. Her name is "Dot", and she's around Liko and Roy's age and is a secret member of the Rising Volt Tacklers who is responsible for intel gathering.

She seems to be a recluse who stays shut in her room, using an eccentric persona underneath the Nidothing costume in her streams but outside of it appears to be shy and unwilling to interact with others, using her Quaxly to communicate with her fellow Rising Volt Tacklers members.

Seems next episode will focus on her more.

 

[R_N]

VTuber actually stands for Volt Tackler youtuber

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1662045042385584128

And with today's episode, Dot, the girl behind Nidothing, now has official artwork as today's episode showed her in full.

As we all know Quaxly is her partner.

 

[pokemon4eva]

Ep 7 and 8 thoughts

Thankfully we're about to land on Paldea next episode, those last two felt slow and like they were going nowhere.

Ep 7: Liko and Roy learn a little battling, learn who Dot is, and the only thing she does is showing a Paldea scribble...uh thanks? We know they're going there already.

Ep 8: We get to see more of Dot/Nidothing's personality (and slowly opening up), the crew is hanging out and Dot tells Liko and Roy their objects are very ancient and rare to cross by, because that needed to be said apparently. Also why was everyone ok with Liko alone at the ship??? You know there's this gang chasing after her right?

We got a new crew member introduced, but most of it notably feels like just filling time, which I know it was kinda inevitable considering it's the Pokemon anime but it still feels disappointing after Liko and Roy's introduction. But on a positive note I appreciate Nidothing's youtuber/eceleb/Barney the Dinosaur schtick a bit more now, considering who the person behind the costume really is.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1667124364972818432

Behold, the power of the Terastal phenomenon, shown in full in its fidelity in the anime.

---

Anyway, today's episode we saw Nemona and Brassius. Nemona seems to be showing up from the get go, saving us from the Hop treatment in Journeys thankfully.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1667110088983871488

Already Paldea and SV are getting better represented in their own generation's anime season than Galar/SwSh was in Journeys, I'm liking this.

 

[Perriechu]

Whilst probably not happening for a while - one thing that did float into my head during a lucid moment was when Paradox Pokémon are introduced, what are their cries going to sound like?

For the "Past" ones, their given names are not actually their names. So like a Great Tusk isn't going to run around grunting "Great Tusk" - and although there are a lot of Pokémon like Gyarados and Salamence who just let out roars, it doesn't seem to fit the aesthetic of the Pokémon like Scream Tail and Flutter Mane.

The whole point of the Paradox Pokémon is that they are regular Pokémon plucked from different timelines but there's no actual relation to their "counterparts" so that's gonna be interesting to see how they go about it. They could end up building on their lore and discovering their origins perhaps?

I hope the Iron guys just regi-grunt kinda that would be funny

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Whilst probably not happening for a while - one thing that did float into my head during a lucid moment was when Paradox Pokémon are introduced, what are their cries going to sound like?

For the "Past" ones, their given names are not actually their names. So like a Great Tusk isn't going to run around grunting "Great Tusk" - and although there are a lot of Pokémon like Gyarados and Salamence who just let out roars, it doesn't seem to fit the aesthetic of the Pokémon like Scream Tail and Flutter Mane.

The whole point of the Paradox Pokémon is that they are regular Pokémon plucked from different timelines but there's no actual relation to their "counterparts" so that's gonna be interesting to see how they go about it. They could end up building on their lore and discovering their origins perhaps?

I hope the Iron guys just regi-grunt kinda that would be funny

In both cases the key thing is their Paradox two-word names aren't their actual names: they're tentative codenames given by scientists to what are essentially a group of unidentified and unknown Pokemon. After all, Koraidon and Miraidon were originally code-named as Winged King and Iron Serpent, respectively, until they gained their true names as Koraidon and Miraidon.

That said, there are two possibilities. Either they will have nondistinctive roars or robotic cries, or they will say their "present-day" counterpart's name.

Now why do I suggest the latter as a possibility? Because the paradox Pokemon's cries in the games are similar to their derivative Pokemon's cries barring a special effect added depending on if it's an ancient paradox or future paradox.

But more importantly, the games have several implications via text boxes that Pokemon in the games do in fact say their names, and we have an example with the Titan Great Tusk and Iron Treads where we get text boxes when they roar just before you battle them.

And believe it or not, here are what their cries in the games are implied to be:

Titan Great Tusk: "Dooon! Faaahnd!"
Titan Iron Treads: "Whirrr! Don-fah!"

As you can see, despite neither of them being actually Donphan supposedly, their cries in-universe have them saying "Donphan" in some form or another. Iron Treads' based on the text seems to be a machine whirring followed by it saying "Donphan" in the way you would hear it in the anime.

So in that sense the other paradoxes would likely follow suit. Brute Bonnet would say "Amoonguss" or some variant of it, Iron Hands would say "Hariyama" with a machine whirr added to it, and whatnot.

The exceptions would be Iron Thorns, Roaring Moon, and Iron Valiant, who would definitely have non-distinct roars or robotic beeps of sorts. Thorns and Roaring Moon are based on Tyranitar and Salamence both of who possess non-distinct roars in the anime, while Iron Valiant is a weird hybrid of Gardevoir and Gallade which would be an interesting beast to make a cry for.

In addition while we need DLC to expand on it the implied lore seems to be a little more complicated with the Paradoxes. Despite Sada and Turo believing they are from the past/future, their actual origins are dubious and logically their existence at all doesn't make sense (hence why they're called paradox), and yet somehow they do exist. In other words, they shouldn't logically exist in the first place, and yet somehow they do. It's likely related to Terastal energy somehow, which is why most of them resemble current day Pokemon with the same cries very similar appearances, but have different types and stats, and seeing as how Terastal and Terapagos are tied to the types, that may play more into it somehow.

We are definitely going to get a lot of lore on that however seeing as how Liko's pendant is implied to be related to Terapagos and is a major plot point for her story.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Iron Valiant is a weird hybrid of Gardevoir and Gallade which would be an interesting beast to make a cry for.

If what Occulture says about it is true, I don't think it would make any noise as it's supposedly a cold-blooded killing machine. It's like a Terminator (at least the ones in the first few movies).

But otherwise I agree with what you said. I'm more thinking it'll be somewhere in the middle: For the Pokemon who say their name, while the Ancient Paradox will give off a primal noise (like a roar) and the Future Paradox will give off robotic sounds, you'll probably still faintly hear them saying their name through the distortion. They already do it for some Pokemon, most famous is Charizard who in the anime is actually saying it's Japanese name, Lizardon, but it's done so in a form of a bellowing roar that they can keep it in other languages as just a Pokemon who doesn't say their name and roars instead.

 

[Ashton98]

So far I've seen 5 episode of Horizons. It's interesting to see a new Pokemon series that has an entirely new cast, and different main character goals compared to the previous series.