SPOILERS! General Pokémon Anime Discussion

[R_N]

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My issue with the Scorbunny thing is that empathy at the basic level of "not downplaying your friend's concerns about their ability or self-worth" isn't really a level of learning a character at Goh's depicted age should have to learn. I definitely get growing pains with a new team member joining and Goh being a bit of a novice trainer, but I think there were easier-to-connect-with ways to start that conflict than something like Scorbunny losing a battle for lack of skills, wanting to better itself, and Goh just saying "nah you're fine not learning anything new" as the place to grow from.

Putting aside the other stuff since I can understand those (& lord knows forum echo chambers contribute a lot, yes)....

He's 10, I've absolutely seen kids take the wrong idea and run with it (& adults have similar problems) and get into worse arguments over lesser things, much less conflicts like these. I've gotten into dumber, heated arguments over lesser things. And sadly, sometimes those continue into middle and high school.

The initial issue was seeing scorbunny overexert himself after a Darmanitan with little result, and Goh basically reassuring him that he still has his speed and footwork to rely on, so its okay if he can't use ember. He gave it his best shot and it didn't work, and that was okay; he even literally says "its okay to take part in battles that work for you". He's trying to flip the situation around (helped by his own knowledge of battles that he's been thinking about, as a way to play into those strengths) to make Scorbunny feel better. Which is an actual lesson adults try to teach children anyway. And one handled with less grace by adults, for that matter....

And then, also like a child, he gets in a childish argument when things get heated after Scorbunny refuses to listen during a battle, lose and then runs off in a huff before Ash uses his experience to point out what Goh was missing because of his assumption blinders and they immediately go to make right.
And the moment Goh sees something that has potential from Scorbunny's attempts, he tries to set it right and find compromise. Can't use traditional ember, but using Scorbunny's feet and speed he's able to turn that into a proto-pyro ball.
Then scorbunny turns into an moody teenager (Raboot) and they have to learn new boundaries again because they've been chasing the charmeleon high for 20 years

Like I just rewatched the episode to refresh myself on this, its...fine? Just another for the pile of "pokemon miscommunication" episodes. Most of the cast gets one to varying degrees and honestly Goh's is pretty light on the scale.

e: Honestly I think we're just fundamentally getting different things from these characters and their moments so I think I'm just going to drop it. It's an argument thats either going to fizzle out with no one happy or get heated with no one happy and i'd rather the former; I got my answer why people hate him even if i dont agree, it's fine.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

My only complaint with Goh, is how much Project Mew changed the focus of the character with its weird pacing.
The whole thing was introduced kind of late, so we haven't seen much of it, and feels like an excuse to not have Goh capturing mons as his main focus as he has seriously slowed down on that, the fact he doesn't seem to care about catching 'em all anymore makes you wonder what was even the point on catching so much stuff earlier if is not going to help at getting Mew after all.
It would have been much better if, either, Project Mew was introduced soon after catching Scorebunny or not introduced at all.
Right now, it feels like they just realized trying to make Goh complete the dex was a mistake and had to rush a new character arc for him.

It's even more unfortunate when you look at the recent episode and realize that's basically his goodbye episode, and how he's not even getting a proper climax, let alone a conclusion, to his character arc with Project Mew.

They literally just used Project Mew at the end as a means to boot Goh off the show. We don't get a climax event to his work with Project Mew, unlike say, the coordinator/performer girls getting the Grand Festival or Master Class Showcase as their big climax event after participating in several contests/showcases and getting all the necessary Ribbons/Princess Keys to earn the right to participate in the big event and try to become Top Coordinator/Kalos Queen. Surely after Goh became a Chaser after his Project Mew missions, that seems to be building up to them having him participate in a big climax involving him, Gary, Horace, and those two Urshifu trainers...right? But no, they basically just used his status as a Chaser to send him on his next Project Mew mission and then have him leave Ash entirely and we never see him again.

It's just a very unsatisfying way to send him off. His character is left with no big event even after all this supposed buildup towards something, and now that he's left it's pretty much made all the buildup of the Project Mew missions ultimately amount to nothing. Meanwhile Ash, on the other hand, is getting a proper climax to his PWC journey like he always has in his previous journeys, except this time it's the Masters 8 Tournament, he's battling his way past Steven and Cynthia to reach Leon, and now we're gonna get a climactic finale battle between Ash and Leon as the climax and finale to his arc in this series. Ash is getting a proper conclusion to his JN/PM19 journey in that sense. Goh, meanwhile, just dipped and we get no conclusion to his Project Mew arc, whatever he does next for Project Mew we'll probably never see, and his character is just left on a cliffhanger.

Given all this, it really just makes Goh's goodbye as well as his character arc the most unsatisfying ending of all of Ash's friends' journeys with him across the anime. Other characters had better, more impactful, partings of ways, and many of them proper conclusions to their journeys with Ash, but Goh is just left with an incomplete story arc and an unsatisfying goodbye with Ash.

It's pretty unfortunate. Even Cilan and Iris's goodbye, which was relatively underwhelming, was still done better than this.

 

[RocketSurgery]

Why do people think it's Goh's goodbye episode, and not the writers just putting him on a bus for a few episodes so that they don't have to keep cutting to him during finals, and that after the match it's gonna switch back to project Mew for like... one or two super rushed episodes before whatever the new season is? Or that the next season isn't just going to start with Project Mew stuff?

Like, I get that Ash's match takes us to November, and that the news item saying there were 54 episodes in New Journeys (which implied episodes would run past SV's launch) was removed, and may be inaccurate, but it seems like that still potentially leaves some room for a very hasty check in with Goh and Gary.

 

[ArchaeusXolotl]

Please let it be that son of a bastard’s goodbye episode. I hate him (even though his one-ball catch-everything luck is basically me in PLA, but if he oneballs Mew, im gonna cry

 

[KalosianPorygon]

Please let it be that son of a bastard’s goodbye episode. I hate him (even though his one-ball catch-everything luck is basically me in PLA, but if he oneballs Mew, im gonna cry

This post is the embodiment of "I'm in this picture and I don't like it."

 

[MagmaVinnillla]

Goh’s a mixed bag, I can understand why people love him and why some people hate him. He also has a lot of relatable qualities like being pretty anti-social due to his parents always working which I wish they went into more.

Also, his strength level is really inconsistent sometimes, a lot of his captures just aren't used when they have entire episodes to themselves so you think they would be important, a lot of major development happens offscreen for example Inteleon’s move training and his first battle win in ep 34.

I don’t exactly believe he’s the best male companion. I just wish Goh got a bit more development that was consistent plus Project Mew should've been introduced at the end of Season 1, not midway into Season 2. I'm not a Goh lover, but I'm not a Goh hater either, I'm in the middle.

 

[RocketSurgery]

if he oneballs Mew, im gonna cry

Don't worry, he won't catch it first ball.

It always takes 3 balls to catch Mew in Pokemon GO. :P

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Don't worry, he won't catch it first ball.

It always takes 3 balls to catch Mew in Pokemon GO. :P

Ah, but will he wait until there's a 2x catch candy spotlight hour to do the catch like a real pro?

 

[KaenSoul]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580867599377715200

Looks like the news were just a trailer for the finals, as is 4 episodes long starting next week (as this week was just another recap if you didn't know)
And Leon is not going to use Eternatus after all, instead it has Mr. Rime as his secret weapon!
It also has Inteleon and Cinderace, but we have seen enough of them.

 

[R_N]

The ltitle flashback showing Leon & Sonia fighting was cute

 

[RocketSurgery]

Having both Cinderace and Intelleon was one of the less interesting choices for Leon's team, but Mr. Rime is nice to see. Maybe they'll be brave enough to give Cinderace Libero. :P

I hope Dragapult actually gets to do something instead of going down in two hits.

 

[khlaylav]

Giving Leon the team that he has makes for a pretty interesting counterpoint to Ash, then. The three starters of the current region, an overpowered Charizard and Ash's father a Mr. Mime or equivalent.

 

[Ishiftyounot]

Having both Cinderace and Intelleon was one of the less interesting choices for Leon's team, but Mr. Rime is nice to see. Maybe they'll be brave enough to give Cinderace Libero. :P

They did! In the preview for next week's episode we see Leon's Cinderace use Mud Shot against Pikachu and get hit by Thunderbolt without taking damage, so Libero is confirmed.

 

[RocketSurgery]

They did! In the preview for next week's episode we see Leon's Cinderace use Mud Shot against Pikachu and get hit by Thunderbolt without taking damage, so Libero is confirmed.

Is that what happened? The block looked firey to me, so I interpreted it as Cinderace using a fire counter-shield. Cool if it's the libero animation.

edit: just rewatched, there was no fire, just the electricity, guess I was watching too early in the morning. :P Libero Cinderace makes up for it being an otherwise boring pick.

 

[precita]

Anyway like I said I guess in passing I get it, but man I dunno. After 4 years of anime maybe it's okay to chill and not gleefully cheer a character leaving. Even May haters mellowed out (source: former may hater who still wound up missing her by the time she left)
Just feels like there's other more leveled critiques to throw about Journeys

Still bitter about Misty, Snowyarcticuno? I might have asked you this on ResetEra too but I don't remember, but I still don't understand why you cared so much back then when you posted on serebii's anime section regularly. Your surprise at some negative criticism about Go but you did the same when May appeared for no reason but was fine with Dawn/Iris, etc.

 

[R_N]

Still bitter about Misty, Snowyarcticuno? I might have asked you this on ResetEra too but I don't remember, but I still don't understand why you cared so much back then when you posted on serebii's anime section regularly. Your surprise at some negative criticism about Go but you did the same when May appeared for no reason but was fine with Dawn/Iris, etc.

Because I was a stupid kid/preteen/teen who liked Misty and hated change and overly took that out on May ( & Max (well still don't like Max tbh but he's whatever))
Even these days I still get a one track mind on things that annoy me (If yo uever feel I get annoying about some random topic now rest assured it can be much, much worse), but back then it was worse for me to get in a rut like that and just never let go. At least these days I can try to disengage on a topic a bit and come back and go "oh that was dumb"

Anyway the May thing was embarrassing, but I got over it (there's a reason I sourced myself...). I feel like a lot of people my age from back then did. Maybe you just kind of grow out of it, maybe you just get to look back in retrospect, maybe you take a break from things, whatever.

The Goh stuff stuck out to me because honestly I know a lot of them are grown adults and they just...really really vitriolic to the guy and I just couldn't wrap my head around it. It seemed especially heated to me.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

The Goh stuff stuck out to me because honestly I know a lot of them are grown adults and they just...really really vitriolic to the guy and I just couldn't wrap my head around it. It seemed especially heated to me.

Ain't much to think about. Goh was just annoying.


Also, I'm curious, was there a trailer like this before Ash jobbed in the XY Finals?

The hype they're building for this run is something else, man. Ash is out there repping aLOLa as their champion and straight-up folded Steven. The closest thing he had to that kind of win was the Battle Frontier and the Orange Islands dude.

He even managed to take out Cynthia. CYNTHIA!!!

At this point, what do they even do with the anime afterward? We know how crazy marketable it is.

Sure, we know it would be in character for Ash to just start fresh in a new region like the old days, but the anime made sure to damn near have a parade every time he stepped in Alola, imagine him as a world champ.

The more I think about it, the more it looks like Ash's final run. The grand finale.

I gotta find a way to watch these episodes live, we might be about to witness history.

 

[Magcargo]

Ain't much to think about. Goh was just annoying.


Also, I'm curious, was there a trailer like this before Ash jobbed in the XY Finals?

The hype they're building for this run is something else, man. Ash is out there repping aLOLa as their champion and straight-up folded Steven. The closest thing he had to that kind of win was the Battle Frontier and the Orange Islands dude.

He even managed to take out Cynthia. CYNTHIA!!!

At this point, what do they even do with the anime afterward? We know how crazy marketable it is.

Sure, we know it would be in character for Ash to just start fresh in a new region like the old days, but the anime made sure to damn near have a parade every time he stepped in Alola, imagine him as a world champ.

The more I think about it, the more it looks like Ash's final run. The grand finale.

I gotta find a way to watch these episodes live, we might be about to witness history.

Use a VPN to switch to your internet location to Japan and you'll be able to watch the episodes as soon as they come out on Youtube on the official JP Pokemon channel.

Granted, they don't include the subs, but I don't think the lack of subs detracts from the experience too much for these battle focused episodes.

 

[R_N]

Ash wins and a Paldea representative goes "Hey would you like to be a guest professor at our academy". He's already got a research fellowship may as well go all the way!

Also apparently this is a 4 part battle? Or was that just speculation. Wild enough to have 2 3-part battles in this, much less a 3 & 4.

 

[pika pal]

Ash wins and a Paldea representative goes "Hey would you like to be a guest professor at our academy". He's already got a research fellowship may as well go all the way!

Also apparently this is a 4 part battle? Or was that just speculation. Wild enough to have 2 3-part battles in this, much less a 3 & 4.

4 episodes evidently are going to it at least, which may account for some time to set up and then wind-down after before a "conclusion" episode.

3+ episodes for a battle is where things get particularly intense because at that stage you have to have at least 1 episode be ALL battling, compared to 2 Parters being able to do like 1/2 of one and 1/2-2/3 of another for battling while the rest is unrelated plot.

I almost feel like sending Goh away for Project Mew (whether he stays gone or it's a fake out to have him come back in the stands) was a soft-reassurance that they wouldn't be interrupting or interspersing the battle progression with anything having to do with the other lead characters, something I understand was a contentious point that was held to with the show even when it stopped being such (bad first impressions and all)

 

[I'm Tapu Bulu]

I have a theory: Goh is not being summoned for Project Mew, and is actually using it as a covert to bring back Ash's former companions to watch the final battle against Leon, and apparently...

...

Dawn and Chloe are in the stands and there's an empty seat next to them

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I have a theory: Goh is not being summoned for Project Mew, and is actually using it as a covert to bring back Ash's former companions to watch the final battle against Leon, and apparently...

...

Dawn and Chloe are in the stands and there's an empty seat next to them

So what you're saying is that May may show up?

 

[I'm Tapu Bulu]

So what you're saying is that May may show up?

I don't think May will be there, unless her VA is fully recovered from throat problems.

I don't think all of his friends will come back, they cant reunite so many voice actors, but I hope Serena and Brock will show up, maybe Iris as well. If May is there the writers are probably hiding her as a big surprise

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I have a theory: Goh is not being summoned for Project Mew, and is actually using it as a covert to bring back Ash's former companions to watch the final battle against Leon, and apparently...

...

Dawn and Chloe are in the stands and there's an empty seat next to them

Bet

My bet is on the person in that space most likely being Serena. She's close with Chloe since they interacted before, and she's also the only character they've gone out of their way to hide like this in recent times. I personally would love to see Serena there, her and Dawn meeting would be a dream come true for me.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Bet

My bet is on the person in that space most likely being Serena. She's close with Chloe since they interacted before, and she's also the only character they've gone out of their way to hide like this in recent times. I personally would love to see Serena there, her and Dawn meeting would be a dream come true for me.

Pretty sure I've seen her in one of the trailers...