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With all this talk of knock-off, what are everyone's thoughts on Justified growlith? A little slow, but a free +1 attack on a base 70 is pretty impressive all things considered. It's likely still outclassed by a bulky intimidate set, but just a thought, especially if vulpix is making a return.
Someone mentioned Spritzee on the previous page, and I agree that it's a really cool Pokemon. It has pretty stellar bulk, and I think that a set with Rest / Sleep Talk / Aromatherapy / Draining Kiss is really cool on paper, akin to Chinchou's Heal Bell / Scald set. Not sure how it will do, but without any other reliable recovery at this time, it sounds like a nice check to most Fighting-types. However, it might be a Pokemon that would have fit in a lot better in BW LC than what it will in XY LC, with Fighting-types potentially running coverage to hit it and a potential increase in the use of Knock Off, which would mitigate its bulk a lot. Going purely based off of BW, it would definitely be really good, but who knows how well it will fit into the XY meta?
But didn't the area where you transferred your Pokemon from GBA to D/P/Pt also check legality? I suppose that the only way to know if the Pokemon are transferable is to wait and try to transfer them, but I wouldn't be overly scared. Pardon me if I'm wrong, though.
As for the nerf that a lot of Special Attacks was hit with, I'm not really missing a lot of kills with it. BlizzardSpam with Snover is still Blizzard, and a 110 BP move isn't fun to be hit with. As for the Hidden Power nerf, I'm still getting the 2HKOes I was getting before. Scraggy is still 2HKOed by HP Fighting (albeit by a margin of four percent) and most Normal and Rock types falter in the face of HP Fighting Abra, bar priority. It certainly worries me that Special Attacks (specifically, Hidden Power) was nerfed, as most of my team uses them (and half use Hidden Power) but I'm more concerned with the weather nerf, which could make a Sun team more viable. Maybe if Vulpix got U-Turn? Sorry, I've never checked.
That moves and abilities can be passed down by either parent opens up a couple new doors for things like Golett, which will Shadow Punch everything, or Rufflet, which will be the baby American Brave Bird.
As for the nerf that a lot of Special Attacks was hit with, I'm not really missing a lot of kills with it. BlizzardSpam with Snover is still Blizzard, and a 110 BP move isn't fun to be hit with. As for the Hidden Power nerf, I'm still getting the 2HKOes I was getting before. Scraggy is still 2HKOed by HP Fighting (albeit by a margin of four percent) and most Normal and Rock types falter in the face of HP Fighting Abra, bar priority. It certainly worries me that Special Attacks (specifically, Hidden Power) was nerfed, as most of my team uses them (and half use Hidden Power) but I'm more concerned with the weather nerf, which could make a Sun team more viable. Maybe if Vulpix got U-Turn? Sorry, I've never checked.
That moves and abilities can be passed down by either parent opens up a couple new doors for things like Golett, which will Shadow Punch everything, or Rufflet, which will be the baby American Brave Bird.
Contrary Snivy is shit, though, not powerful enough without a LO and way too slow with it.
Personally I'm excited for any metagame in which Igglybuff can potentially beat Misdreavus 1 on 1. 
In all seriousness, I think Spritzee is the real winner here, I think it might get the nod over Snubbull merely due to the fact that it gets recovery in Wish (I could have sworn Grandbull / Snubbull got wish, but I guess I'm mistaken) Although Intimidate is really nice along with 60/50 physical bulk.
I'm not sure on Tyrunt though, it kind of reminds me of Scraggy in that it has good defenses, with just enough speed to outpace everything after a boost, but both are checked by fighting types, while Scraggy is more vulnerable to Fairy while Tyrunt is more vulnerable to Grounds such as Hippo. Both are weak to Fighting priority though, which is always a problem. It will be a good offensive check to Murkrow which is really cool.
The new Grass / Ghosts will be interesting to try, since they seem to be good spin blockers with their typing.
Also, regarding knock off, I read a few times in the research that its in-game description is misleading and that it doesn't do any extra damage if the target has an item, as people report the second knock off doing more than the first one. Is there any confirmation that I missed that says otherwise?
In all seriousness, I think Spritzee is the real winner here, I think it might get the nod over Snubbull merely due to the fact that it gets recovery in Wish (I could have sworn Grandbull / Snubbull got wish, but I guess I'm mistaken) Although Intimidate is really nice along with 60/50 physical bulk.
I'm not sure on Tyrunt though, it kind of reminds me of Scraggy in that it has good defenses, with just enough speed to outpace everything after a boost, but both are checked by fighting types, while Scraggy is more vulnerable to Fairy while Tyrunt is more vulnerable to Grounds such as Hippo. Both are weak to Fighting priority though, which is always a problem. It will be a good offensive check to Murkrow which is really cool.
The new Grass / Ghosts will be interesting to try, since they seem to be good spin blockers with their typing.
Also, regarding knock off, I read a few times in the research that its in-game description is misleading and that it doesn't do any extra damage if the target has an item, as people report the second knock off doing more than the first one. Is there any confirmation that I missed that says otherwise?
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If knock off gets a lot of usage, could Sticky Hold pokés such as Shellos become relevant?
what about goomy? Hes the master of lc and magikarps true rival. Anyway, I think it can have draco meteor taught to it plus it has some decent coverage with t bolt and sludge wave.
not only that it can be lc's first hydration rester with rest/rain dance/infestation/toxic since it has an impressive 75 sp def and decent 45 hp (according to serebii)
not only that it can be lc's first hydration rester with rest/rain dance/infestation/toxic since it has an impressive 75 sp def and decent 45 hp (according to serebii)
Ito, goomy can be a decent special wall, but its not the first hydration rester, thats ducklett, or even another mon it doesn't matter as we have no rain setter and the nerf.
Flame Emblem, people may resort to lileep to handle knock off since it does get sticky hold, but thats pretty useless too because most knock off users have ways of nailing it.
oh yeah I completely forgotten about ducklet. But at least its not so weak to electric types. Anyway, was looking through the new lc candidates and stumbled pumpkaboo. It has some nice moves with wio wisp, trick, trick room, and explosion along with frisk so it makes for a good poke.
ok i change my mind parting shot pancham actually sounds pretty great
basically a turn of free setup for any sweeper is fucking ridiculous
basically a turn of free setup for any sweeper is fucking ridiculous
[13:30] <+fatty> cotton candy is BROKEN
Swirlix @ Berry Juice
Ability: Unburden
Level: 5
EVs: 20 HP / 68 Def / 204 SAtk / 204 Spd
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Dazzling Gleam
- Flamethrower
This thing is honestly fantastic, and is an insane sweeper. With Unburden, Substitute, and Calm Mind, it has the making to be an insane sweeper. If you get a Substitute off as they switch, or take a hit and get Substitute off, BERRY JUICE HAPPENS. Then Unburden, you double up Speed, AND KEEP YOUR SUBSTITUTE. If you get a Calm Mind off, it kills a ton of shit. Fairy has insane coverage in the metagame, and Flamethrower complements it. Misses out on Fire-type Pokemon, but all of them are frail anyways. I have swept so many people with this...it might be early meta, but still. I fucking adore this Pokemon.
Swirlix @ Berry Juice
Ability: Unburden
Level: 5
EVs: 20 HP / 68 Def / 204 SAtk / 204 Spd
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Dazzling Gleam
- Flamethrower
This thing is honestly fantastic, and is an insane sweeper. With Unburden, Substitute, and Calm Mind, it has the making to be an insane sweeper. If you get a Substitute off as they switch, or take a hit and get Substitute off, BERRY JUICE HAPPENS. Then Unburden, you double up Speed, AND KEEP YOUR SUBSTITUTE. If you get a Calm Mind off, it kills a ton of shit. Fairy has insane coverage in the metagame, and Flamethrower complements it. Misses out on Fire-type Pokemon, but all of them are frail anyways. I have swept so many people with this...it might be early meta, but still. I fucking adore this Pokemon.
More of a question I have really, are gems legal? I've found a normel gem myself in game but I have yet to see any others and i can't find much on the issue anywhere. Because certain gems seem pretty insane right now (plus I want to test how ol' drifloon held up :P)
Ya, swirlix is sooo much better than spritzee its amazing nobody really noticed it. I've been running surf myself over substitute, with a slightly different EV spread. Love that little ball of fluff.
I've been trying CM/Kiss/Psychic/moonblast spritzee with defensive spread
it fucks up your shit, way more bulky + kill poisons + recovery + you can wreck fires
also setup opportunities on errything, it takes 48% from +2 flash cannon clauncher with a CM
Way more bulky? It has 2 more hp and 1 more Max SpD, its barely more bulky. Flamethrower > Psychic for coverage, swirlix actually has some speed and both of them learn draining kiss (its not a very good move) Spritzees only real big advantage is moon blast > gleam.
yeah only normal gem can be found, no other gems.
anyway guys ive brought back the origiinal scraggy set. not the stronger life orb dd hijump kick one because honestly that wont work nowdays with so much stuff faster than it and fairy types blocking your stab (i wont be using not ice punch for as long as gligar lives) but with that bulk hes a really good bulky fighting type that pivots so much for me. bring him on any of the bulky stuff that you can find (i cant remember what) and just spam knock off for a while, and by end game you should easily be able to drop a dragon dance and sweep. the only real problem is fairy types who you have to deal with otherways, and then sneasel who you should already have an answer for. if you have full health brick break isnt gonna kill you. i tried berry juice but its just not worth that loss in bulk when you have drain punch
also berry juice is really dumb. it outclasses eviolite in so many situations, like the only reason you should use evio is if you have natural bulk. killing 7 pokemon is extremely annoying compared to 6 and makes your life very difficult
flamethrower can't hit poisons for shit, steels are blocked by mag, moonblast is actually important, draining kiss is useful with moonblast thanks to 75% recovery while killing frail threats, that additional bulk matters. You don't need speed with recovery and when nothing kills you
pancham is really cool. parting shot fucks with a bunch of shit and it's extremely fun switching into spritzee / swirlix / binacle / scraggy / fletchling / [insert sweeper
].
also speaking of fletchling that thing fucking wrecks with sd acrobatics.
helioptile is actually very nice.
berry juice is good.
skrelp hits like a truck, fantastic bulky water.
].
also speaking of fletchling that thing fucking wrecks with sd acrobatics.
helioptile is actually very nice.
berry juice is good.
skrelp hits like a truck, fantastic bulky water.
So, with the rules being decided now, am I the only one who has a problem with them? Specifically this part:
However, the first bullet point implies that the Pomeg Glitch is still legal, and the Pomeg Glitch does not exist in X and Y. It only exists in Emerald, and so it could only be given to X and Y via Pokémon Bank. If we are pretending that Pokémon Bank is released, then fine. This makes sense. And I have no problem with this.
I do, however, have a problem with the inconsistency. I think that we should either legalize the transfer of Pokémon from Gen 5 or we shouldn't. But what we should not do is have it be legalized in some instances and not in others, as it is now. Furthermore, the Pomeg Glitch may not even work in Gen 6 even with Pokémon Bank, as Pokémon Bank is going to check for legality, and I doubt that Nintendo is going to be as nice to glitches as Smogon is. Having said that, we don't NEED to do what Nintendo does, but if we don't do what Nintendo does, then why not allow the Pokémon that are unobtainable in X and Y?
I know that we don't know the movepools or potentially new abilities or new base stats of the old Pokémon that aren't in X and Y. But can't we just use the Gen 5 ones in the interim before Pokémon Bank comes out? Or, if not, just ban the Pomeg Glitch entirely (at least until then)? I just don't like this sort-of in-between status.
And finally, in regards to Hidden Abilities, bear in mind that if we DON'T allow transferring of Pokémon from Gen 5 until Nintendo does, then the only Pokémon that can legally have their Hidden Abilities would be those found in Horde Encounters, Friend Safari, the Wi-Fi Torchic, or the pre-evos of any of the above (via breeding). Note that in Gen 6, male Pokémon are capable of passing down Hidden Abilities through breeding.
I haven't fact-checked the list of Hidden Abilities that you gave, but bear in mind that if you can obtain a Hidden Ability in Gen 5 and not Gen 6, and we are not allowing transferring, then the Pokémon in question should be deleted from the list you gave. Just saying.
Here's the thing: The third bullet point implies that we are doing this thing cartridge-based. Only what you have in X and Y count. You cannot use Pokémon Bank prior to its release. I have no problem with this.
However, the first bullet point implies that the Pomeg Glitch is still legal, and the Pomeg Glitch does not exist in X and Y. It only exists in Emerald, and so it could only be given to X and Y via Pokémon Bank. If we are pretending that Pokémon Bank is released, then fine. This makes sense. And I have no problem with this.
I do, however, have a problem with the inconsistency. I think that we should either legalize the transfer of Pokémon from Gen 5 or we shouldn't. But what we should not do is have it be legalized in some instances and not in others, as it is now. Furthermore, the Pomeg Glitch may not even work in Gen 6 even with Pokémon Bank, as Pokémon Bank is going to check for legality, and I doubt that Nintendo is going to be as nice to glitches as Smogon is. Having said that, we don't NEED to do what Nintendo does, but if we don't do what Nintendo does, then why not allow the Pokémon that are unobtainable in X and Y?
I know that we don't know the movepools or potentially new abilities or new base stats of the old Pokémon that aren't in X and Y. But can't we just use the Gen 5 ones in the interim before Pokémon Bank comes out? Or, if not, just ban the Pomeg Glitch entirely (at least until then)? I just don't like this sort-of in-between status.
And finally, in regards to Hidden Abilities, bear in mind that if we DON'T allow transferring of Pokémon from Gen 5 until Nintendo does, then the only Pokémon that can legally have their Hidden Abilities would be those found in Horde Encounters, Friend Safari, the Wi-Fi Torchic, or the pre-evos of any of the above (via breeding). Note that in Gen 6, male Pokémon are capable of passing down Hidden Abilities through breeding.
I haven't fact-checked the list of Hidden Abilities that you gave, but bear in mind that if you can obtain a Hidden Ability in Gen 5 and not Gen 6, and we are not allowing transferring, then the Pokémon in question should be deleted from the list you gave. Just saying.
What i have been saying while i mod and people ask me questions is that if its a move of ability that can be obtained through pokebank then you can use it. items are much more tricky because its not even guaranteed items can be transfered, while theres no way to prevent pokemon with some ability or move to be transfered. yeah its really annoying and theres a lot of inbetween confusing stuff but honestly no ACTUAL tiering is going to happen until january after pokebank is released and everything is found out, so its not that big of a problem. right now we are just playing with what we know and having fun with it but theres no actual tiering or anything going on
of course blara can say fuck you to me and give a different approach but thats what i do for modding purposes lol
of course blara can say fuck you to me and give a different approach but thats what i do for modding purposes lol
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