SM OU Fire and Ice

[Vengeance417]

Fire and Ice

Salutations. This is probably gonna be my one and only USUM OU RMT on the site as I mostly play Ubers, but I've been getting back into OU with a squad that I've been having fun with. The name of the team is based around 3 Attacks Hidden Power Ice Mega Charizard X, which is a set that I've made myself and has surprisingly put in some work as of late, catching its would-be check in Landorus-T off guard. This team also features an offensive duo of Calm Mind Fairium Z Tapu Koko + Specs Ash-Greninja which both help pressure each other's checks and counters.

The Team:

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earthquake
- Roost

The star of the show. 3 Attacks + Roost is easily the most consistent of Mega Charizard X's sets in the meta. However, I decided to take a different approach to it. I felt that losing momentum vs non-scarf Landorus-T was very annoying despite the large chip damage that Flare Blitz dishes out, and Dragon Claw's main targets were against mons that were faster than it (Lati@s + Garchomp). So I experimented with Hidden Power Ice and I've never looked back. People forget that Mega Charizard X has a base 130 Special Attack, which enables its Hidden Power Ice, with a hindering nature and no investment, to 2HKO fat Landos. Flare Blitz into Hidden Power Ice against defensive Landorus-T has a very high chance to KO from full, and is guaranteed after Stealth Rock or even the smallest amount of chip damage. Hidden Power Ice also 2HKOs offensive Zygarde, Gliscor, and Helmet Garchomp. Earthquake eliminates Heatran and does a sizable chunk to Tyranitar, and Roost provides reliable recovery.

calcs

-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-Therian: 133-157 (34.8 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0- SpA Charizard-Mega-X Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 236-280 (61.7 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0- SpA Charizard-Mega-X Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 152 SpD Gliscor: 204-244 (57.9 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

0- SpA Charizard-Mega-X Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 204-244 (56.9 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0- SpA Charizard-Mega-X Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 224-268 (53.3 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 72 Def / 140 SpD / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled
- Will-O-Wisp
- Psychic

I chose Mew as my bulky stealth rock setter. With its bulk at its disposal, Mew is capable of checking Mega Medicham, Mega Lopunny, Landorus-T, Zygarde, and Tapu Bulu, as primary examples. With Psychic as Mew's attacking move, that list also gains Toxapex, Mega Venusaur, and Rotom-W for mons that Mew can adequately go up against. Softboiled is included for reliable recovery, and Will-O-Wisp cripples the many hard-hitting physical attackers in the tier.

Ferrothorn @ Chople Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Power Whip

Ferrothorn is my primary Water and Fairy resist, something that Charizard really appreciates, and is my primary answer to the Tapus, Rain abusers, opposing Ash-Greninja, and non HP Fire Lati@s. Chople Berry enables Ferrothorn to adequately handle All Out Pummeling Tapu Lele, Superpower Tapu Bulu, Superpower Mega Swampert, and Focus Blast Mega Alakazam. Power Whip annihilates Gastrodon, Ash-Greninja, Mega Swampert, and Quagsire. Leech Seed whittles down incoming switchins such as Heatran and Toxapex.

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 48 Def / 212 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- U-turn
- Defog

Bulky Scarf Landorus-T is starting to become a popular set for the #1 used mon in OU, and it's something that this team has appreciated so far. I wanted a fast Defogger that could actually take a hit and provide momentum with U-turn. The Speed EVs enable Lando-T to outpace Mega Lopunny and +1 Jolly Mega Tyranitar, and the rest goes to physical defense investment, which happens to prevent opposing Mega Charizard X from 2HKOing with Flare Blitz. Hidden Power Fire + the physical bulk also enable this Lando-T to adequately take on Kartana, as HP Fire with no investment still picks up the OHKO.

Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Spikes

Standard Specs Naruto Frog Ash-Greninja w/ Spikes. Both Charizard and Tapu Koko really appreciate the Spikes support that this mon brings for them, as Charizard is able to pressure Toxapex harder with Earthquake + Spikes, and Tapu Koko likes seeing Tapu Bulu and AV Magearna being chipped away as well. Ash-Greninja, in turn, also really likes the wallbreaking support Charizard brings to the table as this helps Ash-Gren pick off weakened foes with its Specs-powered attacks, especially with Water Shuriken, later on in the game. Twinkle Tackle Tapu Koko can also heavily dent the likes of Tyranitar, which enables Ash-Greninja to freely spam Dark Pulse mid-late game.

Tapu Koko @ Fairium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam

Calm Mind Twinkle Tackle Tapu Koko is an absolute beast, and I've had games where it solo'd unprepared teams. Fairium Z enables Dazzling Gleam to become Twinkle Tackle, and it blast holes into Dark-type, Ground-type, and Grass-type Pokemon that would give some of the other members of its team issues, such as Tyranitar, Mega Sableye, defensive Lando, Hippowdon (dies after Stealth Rock and 1 spike), AV Tapu Bulu, and AV Tangrowth. With both this mon and Ash-Greninja pressuring AV Tapu Bulu, it's only a matter of time before +1 Twinkle Tackle is within range of knocking it out. Hidden Power Fire is used to aid Ash-Greninja in wearing down Ferrothorn.

Matchup Issues:

Stall

I don't have the best matchup vs Stall. Best I can hope for is to attempt to stack as many hazards as possible and pressure Mega Sableye and the defoggers from doing their jobs.

Mega Venusaur

While not the most common mon at the moment, Mega Venusaur gives my team serious issues if Zard X and Mew go down.

Dragon Dance Mega Charizard X

I have Lando-T and Ash-Gren to fall back on, but if they're both weakened enough, this mon can go on a terror against my team.

Importable

https://pokepast.es/e3d5f1119ba159ce

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-724054124

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-724147152

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-724157909

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-724072143

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-724093885

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-724094963

 

[stuuful12]

Sometimes a simple change can go a very long way, either way, I'm going to suggest a change that will hopefully improve most of your problems

Change Hidden Power Fire to Taunt

Doing this avoids a lot of your issues mainly giving you a chance to annoy stall and defensive mons in general. Taunt also allows you to force Chansey and friends into their attacking moves, giving you time to either set-up with Koko or try to break with Zard if that doesn't work. It also annoys Mega Venusaur, who is an obvious switch-in, and gives you a chance to switch into Mew. I guess that the Ferrothorn match-up is made slightly worse, but it doesn't have reliable recovery, and Charizard forces it out plus Taunt also annoys it as well, which is always a positive.

 

[patlop2307]

Hey Vengeance417! I saw this team and thought it would be pretty interesting to rate the team, since there is definitely room for improval.

What is your team weak to?

• 
  : After some chip on the Tapu Koko it is pretty easy for Pinsir to, pretty much, sweep your team with Frustration/Quick Attack at +1/+2 (considering Landorus' Intimidate). The reasons for this are simple: 1. You do not seem to run Stone Edge on Choice Scarf Landorus-Therian. 2. The Tapu Koko does not have Roost, making it easy to wear down. Improve one of the two holes, and your match-up versus it will improve significantly.
• 
  : You also forgot to include that Pokémon as a threat. Double Dance Zygarde just sweeps your team, really. It sets up on a number of things: Mew, locked in Landorus, Ferrothorn even, if played right. Once it gets the set-up and is possibly behind a Substitute, there is not much you can do, since it dragon dances and coils to the point it needs to, for it to sweep.
• 
  : This thing, especially when non-choiced, can also put a hole in your team. Granted, it wins some 50/50s against Ferrothorn and Greninja. Does it kill one of the 2 Pokémon, it is basically unstoppable, if it finds the opportunity to come in once more after mentioned kill. It is just an extremely potent Pokémon, period.

How can you improve the team?

>

: This should take care of your Tapu Lele weakness, as wellas your Mega-Venusaur weakness. It gives you Stealth Rocks and wish-pass, which is probably why I suggest this Pokémon so often lol. It is, however, by far the best Tapu Lele counter and is just such a good Pokémon in general.

>

: This should cover the Zygarde weakness for the most part. Tapu Bulu is an extremely potent check to the majority of the tier. It has strong and useful attacks, I do not think there is much else to say.

Dragon Claw > Hidden Power [Ice] (

): While I can respect that ypu want to hit Landorus-Theiran with Hidden Power [Ice], Dragon Claw is a much better fit, generally speaking. By the way, Three attacks Charizard is pretty nice in this meta, right now. It is able to break through balances pretty well and, with the right match-up, is able to break stall as well.

Physical Electrium Z > Calm Mind Fairium Z (

): Physical Electrium Z allows you to, pretty much, beat stall with Taunt + Roost + Wild Charge as well as giving you a decent Pinsir check. It is also a nice threat to consider while Greninja is setting Spikes, sometimes manipulating people in their decisions on whether they should go into their removal or not.

Hidden Power [Ice] > Hidden Power [Fire] (

): I do not think Ferrothorn is that much of a nuisance that you have to run Hidden Power [Fire] on Landorus-Therian, nor do I think that Scizor is that big of a problem. You do have a Charizard that can threaten both the Ferrothorn and the Scizor. However, an opposing Landorus-Therian can actually kind of be a threat, hence I am running Hidden Power [Ice] on it.

For the conclusion I wanted to acknowledge the Mega-Medicham weakness. You could make certain changes, but that would open up weaknesses to other Pokémon or would cause other team-internal problems.

With that being said, have fun with the team ^^ (Just click on the Pokémon below to view the team)

 

[Vengeance417]

Thanks for the rate patlop2307. I'll definitely look into using Tapu Bulu, Jirachi, and physical stallbreaker Tapu Koko. However, there are a couple of things I disagree with.

The reason I'm running Hidden Power Fire on Landorus-T isn't primarily for opposing Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor, but for Kartana, which becomes that much stronger with the inclusion of Tapu Bulu now on the team. I felt with Hidden Power Ice Mega Charizard X (which I'll talk about in a second) and Ash-Greninja on the team, I felt that Hidden Power Ice on Lando was unnecessary.

The reason I don't like Dragon Claw on 3 attacks + roost Zard anymore is that it really only hits two relevant mons that it outspeeds super effectively, which are Zygarde and Kyurem-B (unless Scarf, which means Zard is useless against it anyway). I have Bulu for Zygarde now, and Kyurem-B dies to Flare Blitz after Stealth Rock and a small amount of chip damage anyway. The other targets for Dragon Claw (Lati@s and Garchomp) outpace Zard X regardless, and I still have other mons at my disposal to handle them anyway. With Zard running HP Ice, which lures in Lando-T, this enables Tapu Koko to go...wild...with Wild Charge. While Bulu checks Lando-T, it still needs to be wary of Fly-Z sets which is the reason why I can't solely rely on it as my switch-in. Also, it can just get U-turned on regardless. I might as well just remove the problem ASAP than having to deal with it later. HP Ice Zard X also hits Helmet Garchomp for a 2HKO without having to deal with the unnecessary amounts of recoil, and it's capable of 2HKOing Zygarde and Gliscor as well.

The loss of Mew not only makes me weak to Medicham, but Rotom-W also becomes a bit of a pain, which was one one of the reasons why I decided to run Psychic on it as well as hitting Venu and Pex for good chip, so I'll see how that goes with the changes. Thanks again!

 

[patlop2307]

Thanks for the rate patlop2307. I'll definitely look into using Tapu Bulu, Jirachi, and physical stallbreaker Tapu Koko. However, there are a couple of things I disagree with.

The reason I'm running Hidden Power Fire on Landorus-T isn't primarily for opposing Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor, but for Kartana, which becomes that much stronger with the inclusion of Tapu Bulu now on the team. I felt with Hidden Power Ice Mega Charizard X (which I'll talk about in a second) and Ash-Greninja on the team, I felt that Hidden Power Ice on Lando was unnecessary.

The reason I don't like Dragon Claw on 3 attacks + roost Zard anymore is that it really only hits two relevant mons that it outspeeds super effectively, which are Zygarde and Kyurem-B (unless Scarf, which means Zard is useless against it anyway). I have Bulu for Zygarde now, and Kyurem-B dies to Flare Blitz after Stealth Rock and a small amount of chip damage anyway. The other targets for Dragon Claw (Lati@s and Garchomp) outpace Zard X regardless, and I still have other mons at my disposal to handle them anyway. With Zard running HP Ice, which lures in Lando-T, this enables Tapu Koko to go...wild...with Wild Charge. While Bulu checks Lando-T, it still needs to be wary of Fly-Z sets which is the reason why I can't solely rely on it as my switch-in. Also, it can just get U-turned on regardless. I might as well just remove the problem ASAP than having to deal with it later. HP Ice Zard X also hits Helmet Garchomp for a 2HKO without having to deal with the unnecessary amounts of recoil, and it's capable of 2HKOing Zygarde and Gliscor as well.

The loss of Mew not only makes me weak to Medicham, but Rotom-W also becomes a bit of a pain, which was one one of the reasons why I decided to run Psychic on it as well as hitting Venu and Pex for good chip, so I'll see how that goes with the changes. Thanks again!

Much appreciated, thank you!

While I have to admit that I forgot Kartana, I do not think you lose to it at all, but that is just my opinion. Earthquake from Choice Scarf Landours-Therian is a guaranteed 2HKO and Scarfed Kartana can be covered by just having Charizard on the team.

Charizard hitting Zygarde and Kyurem Black is reason enough for me to actually suggest the sets, I feel like. It is called a suggestion, after all. I am digressing: In my inital rate I stated that Bulu covers almost all sets. The sets it does not cover are Steelium and Choice Band Iron Tail. Having a "2nd Backbone" is pretty nice. Kyurem can also be very threatning if played right. Also, Electrium can pose as a potential danger to the team as well, which gives it one more reason to be ran. Offensive Landorus gets 2HKO'd by a Flare Blitz from Charizard-X so it is rarely finding a switch-in with all the momentum there is on the team. Rocky Helmet Garchomp is a fair point, I suppose, but it is not that popular, right now, although I used to run it frequently in the SM-Meta.

Rotom-Wash can absolutely be a pain for your team, but you did not cover it well in your initial post either (no offence). Pain Split sets were still a huge nuisance to your team, since your Mew could not really beat it, I would imagine (If you have replays to prove me wrong, feel free to share them!). Charizard-X basically could not hit it with anything except for Flare Blitz and Rotom-Wash dished out Hydro Pumps versus it. The Charizard can stall out the Rotom-Wash's Hydro Pumps and get damage off on Rotom at the same time, which is not exactly the best counterplay, I know, but considerable nonetheless.

With all that being out the way, no hard feelings bro. The opposite is the case, I find it nice to have a dialogue about my suggestions, since it could very well be the case that there are mistakes that I made or that certain suggestions of me are simply not worth making. Those rates are the most fun to me, honestly :D .

Peace man, and again much much appreciated!