Pokémon Feraligatr

[silver97]

Im thinking of feraligatr holding a lum berry is a good option because when I played sheer force Gatr on a server that had the hidden abilities for all of the mons my feraligatr was at the mercy to status effects and most of them was from scald or priority bullshit. with sheer force he already has a free life orb with some of his moves so having a lum berry will essentially give him two different items. I had a moxie gyrados with lum berry and he was solid with it. what do you guys think?

if you really need that in order to get a boost vs certain threats when facing stall maybe it can be an option, but honestly the main reason why sheer force is such a great ability is that you get the boost with LO without recoil and thus making moves hit extremely hard, which is what, as firehusky said, makes feraligatr worthy of being used over mega gyarados, so personally i wouldn't ever use any other item on gatr

 

[malomyotismon]

if you really need that in order to get a boost vs certain threats when facing stall maybe it can be an option, but honestly the main reason why sheer force is such a great ability is that you get the boost with LO without recoil and thus making moves hit extremely hard, which is what, as firehusky said, makes feraligatr worthy of being used over mega gyarados, so personally i wouldn't ever use any other item on gatr

agreed a damage boost of 1.3x is nothing to be scoffed at, here are some waterfall calcs against mew max defence all jolly

gyarados lo -252 Atk Life Orb Gyarados Bounce vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 126-149 (31.1 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
feraligatr lo-252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 152-179 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
m-gyarados -252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 93-109 (23 - 26.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

just using mew as neutral type fodder, you can see gatr hits harder than even lo gyarados all jolly, as for adamant

m-gayardos - 252+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 102-120 (25.2 - 29.7%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
gyarados lo -252+ Atk Life Orb Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 133-156 (32.9 - 38.6%) -- 2.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
feraligatr - 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 203-239 (50.2 - 59.1%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers


gatr outdamages lo gyarados, with a jolly nature, no recoil damage and adamant was thrown in again to show the big diffrence as well.

All stats copied and pasted from showdown damage calculator

 

[bboyrei]

Could Sheer Force Feraligatr see play in rain teams? It may not have Mega Swampert's speed, but its Waterfall hits ridiculously harder.

252+ Atk Mega Swampert Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in Rain: 136-162 (40.7 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in Rain: 164-192 (49.1 - 57.4%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO

 

[firehusky]

As far as I know, SD Feraligatr was actually used in BW, when Rain was very common. At +2 in the Rain, it can hit ridiculously hard.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W in Rain: 221-261 (72.9 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn in Rain: 211-248 (59.9 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[MilkyWay]

Could Sheer Force Feraligatr see play in rain teams? It may not have Mega Swampert's speed, but its Waterfall hits ridiculously harder.

252+ Atk Mega Swampert Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in Rain: 136-162 (40.7 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in Rain: 164-192 (49.1 - 57.4%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO

Maybe Politoed, Feraligatr, and Mega Sceptile? Feraligatr and Politoed bait electric attacks for Mega Sceptile and they have good type synergy considering Mega Sceptile quad resists grass, is immune to electric, and Politoed and Feraligatr resist ice. Mega Sceptile also takes on Rotom-W along with other bulky waters and it can sorta get past Ferrothorn with Focus Miss for Feraligatr.

 

[bboyrei]

Maybe Politoed, Feraligatr, and Mega Sceptile? Feraligatr and Politoed bait electric attacks for Mega Sceptile and they have good type synergy considering Mega Sceptile quad resists grass, is immune to electric, and Politoed and Feraligatr resist ice. Mega Sceptile also takes on Rotom-W along with other bulky waters and it can sorta get past Ferrothorn with Focus Miss for Feraligatr.

Maybe also carry a Scarf Keldeo to not risk Focus Blast and something to deal with Mega Venusaur to make it solid. Since Sheer Force doesn't boost Aqua Jet, perhaps DD Gatr would be more effective as a late game sweeper.

 

[DKFirelord]

Talon + Gatr + Mega sceptile = pretty sick FWG core

This core sounds god like what defoger/rapid spinner would you recommend for the core

 

[malomyotismon]

This core sounds god like what defoger/rapid spinner would you recommend for the core

latios is the go to defogger normally, and compliments gatr rather well, but unfortunately shares weaknesses with m-sceptile

 

[DKFirelord]

latios is the go to defogger normally, and compliments gatr rather well, but unfortunately shares weaknesses with m-sceptile

Thanks just wNted to know couldn't think off poke that suites this core

 

[malomyotismon]

Thanks just wNted to know couldn't think off poke that suites this core

if you wnat to use another mega or would rather not have the shared weakness of latios and m-sceptile, but still want to use a lati, you can replace it with serperior

 

[DragonAscent]

This core sounds god like what defoger/rapid spinner would you recommend for the core

Avalugg. :T
Nobody else does mixed tier stuff? Oh. ;w;

In all seriousness, leftovers defensive defog scizor works pretty well. Handles mega alt okayishly, which gatr can't without a dd.

 

[DKFirelord]

Avalugg. :T
Nobody else does mixed tier stuff? Oh. ;w;

In all seriousness, leftovers defensive defog scizor works pretty well. Handles mega alt okayishly, which gatr can't without a dd.

Ava who :] all that's work to since and put a fairy makes a DSF core

 

[Jaroda]

Could Sheer Force Feraligatr see play in rain teams? It may not have Mega Swampert's speed, but its Waterfall hits ridiculously harder.

252+ Atk Mega Swampert Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in Rain: 136-162 (40.7 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in Rain: 164-192 (49.1 - 57.4%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO

CB Crawdaunt is a much better choice for Rain teams. The power differential is out of this world.

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 674-794 (104.9 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 417-491 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-T in Rain: 296-352 (92.7 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

The advantage of Rain is that Crawdaunt doesn't have to take a turn setting up to throw out just stupid powerful water STAB moves. Feraligatr functions better outside of Rain being able to set up easier. Crawdaunt functions better in it for that obscene immediate damage output.

 

[firehusky]

CB Crawdaunt is a much better choice for Rain teams. The power differential is out of this world.

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 674-794 (104.9 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 417-491 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-T in Rain: 296-352 (92.7 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

The advantage of Rain is that Crawdaunt doesn't have to take a turn setting up to throw out just stupid powerful water STAB moves. Feraligatr functions better outside of Rain being able to set up easier. Crawdaunt functions better in it for that obscene immediate damage output.

Feraligatr can use SD, which makes it stronger than Crawdaunt. Crawdaunt is also really slow, so it's forced out every time it gets a kill. Each time Crawdaunt is forced out, your opponent gains momentum, and you lose Rain turns. Rain teams are all about momentum. If anything, I think Feraligar is better in Rain than Crawdaunt. It's better bulk allows it to set up more SDs, and it's damage output in the Rain is just scary. At +2 under Rain, it can pretty much OHKO the entire meta.
Again, CB Crawdaunt is a wallbreaker; Feraligatr is more of a sweeper / cleaner. Feraligatr is better at sweeping, Crawdaunt is better at wallbreaking. However, if you're looking for a wallbreaker on a Rain team, my first pick would always by Mega Heracross provided that you haven't used your Mega Slot yet. It easily breaks past Rotom-W, Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur and Celebi - common answers to Rain teams.

 

[iamfanboy]

A Choice Band-using Pokemon outdamages a Life Orb Pokemon? Now I've seen EVERYTHING! ;)

In all fairness, though, a guaranteed 2HKO on a Chansey after Softboiled recovery is not something to be sneered at, and doesn't the usual Crawdaunt set use Life Orb not CB? I am starting to wonder if a SD Adamant set with Aqua Jet/Waterfall/Ice Punch would work OK - after a one-turn setup move dealing 160%-197% to that same Landorus from your Crawdaunt example seems pretty brutal.

 

[firehusky]

A Choice Band-using Pokemon outdamages a Life Orb Pokemon? Now I've seen EVERYTHING! ;)

In all fairness, though, a guaranteed 2HKO on a Chansey after Softboiled recovery is not something to be sneered at, and doesn't the usual Crawdaunt set use Life Orb not CB? I am starting to wonder if a SD Adamant set with Aqua Jet/Waterfall/Ice Punch would work OK - after a one-turn setup move dealing 160%-197% to that same Landorus from your Crawdaunt example seems pretty brutal.

If you're running an SD set, I'd probably recommend SD / Aqua Jet / Waterfall / Crunch, because it hits Rotom-W neutrally, which otherwise is quite a problem.

 

[bboyrei]

I think the last move option can be flexible, since a +2 Waterfall in the rain deals massive damage to even things that resist it.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W in Rain: 221-261 (72.9 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo in Rain: 342-403 (105.8 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill in Rain: 377-445 (94 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

 

[iamfanboy]

That was my thought - while Crunch does ruin Rotom-W, it hits no other targets of value, and Ice Punch has the widest effectiveness against most OU pokes which resist Water. A lot of 2HKOs are turned into 1HKOs at +2 comparing both.

 

[bboyrei]

Crunch can also get the 2HKO against Mega Slowbro when boosted, although I do agree with Ice Punch getting better coverage.

 

[Gevvaldro]

Even though Gatr does have a water typing that get's boosted by rain, it isn't really rains best choice IMO.
Kingdra, Kabutops, Ludicolo, Mega Pert and even Omastar are better choices because they not only get their main STAB boosted, but also their speed doubled, making them able to just wreck things without even thinking. Not saying Gatr is bad, just that being able to just get in and sweep in the rain is really good. Also, Gatr has a different function than Crawdaunt, which is supposed to wall break with it's SD or banded set.
Making a Gatr team without rain is better, pairing it with Talonflame/Heatran and Serperior/Mega Sceptile make a pretty sick WFG core, pairing it with a volt-turn core would be also really good. Gatr also enjoys stealth rocks as it makes cleaning even easier for him because of how it can wear down it's checks and counters.

 

[Tarontos]

dark water has better neutral coverage than ice water
dark/water is resisted by 21 things of which approximately 6 are ou viable
Ice water is resisted by virtually every water type(it does hit more things for super effective damage)
I'm going to go with dark water as better for a sweeper becuase of neutral covereage(and slightly higher base power)
Water normal actually has the best neutral coverage only 3 ou worthyish( Empoleon, Mr. Monopoly, and ferrothorn) resit the coverage. (even if it has really few super effective)

 

[Zepeln]

Crunch can also get the 2HKO against Mega Slowbro when boosted, although I do agree with Ice Punch getting better coverage.

Also hits targets like Celebi and Lati@s for a bit more damage than Ice Punch, but yes, Ice Punch does have the benefit of hitting other dragons and grass walls.

 

[Jaroda]

My point was that CB Crawdaunt already hits incredibly hard, but it's most effective in Rain with so many boosts from Adaptability, STAB, Rain and Choice Band in a single turn. With Rain being limited this is beneficial to have since it doesn't require a turn of set up, whereas Kabutops needs both Rain and Swords Dance to do good damage and get fast enough.

My point was of course Ferlaigatr can work in Rain, but it isn't really the best choice for a Rain team specifically. It's an example of a Water pokemon that can sweep outside of Rain, which is not as common. As for the battle calcs, you'd be mad to run CB on Feraligatr when you can't use a boosting move, or switch moves like you could with Life Orb.

 

[pika pal]

Regarding Feraligatr in Rain, I'd say he makes sense as a secondary cleaner in case Kabutops/Swampert can't finish things before Politoed's out, but he's not capable of replacing a Swift Swimmer and the turn of set up means he would have serious competition as a Wallbreaker.

 

[Kurona]

What does everyone here feel about Subpunch? While Focus Punch of course isn't boosted by Sheer Force, it's still more powerful - and behind a sub reliable and not shaky - than any of Gator's other fighting moves, and with it's insane power it can force a lot of things out to get up a sub.
Perhaps sub-optimal and could only work as a lure, but I dunno. Might deserve a look.