Well, that's your opinion now isn't it buddy?I know the real answer. There is no God, he's a figment of your imagination. Evil exists because people are greedy. Most of the time they don't want bad things to happen but they cause it anyway due to bad judgement. Some just don't understand. Take World War II for example. The common German soldier did not think what he was doing was wrong, he thought he was fighting for his country and to rid the world of evil people (the Jews). He was brainwashed by a truly evil and greedy man.
It is either right or wrong. Christianity, though, is definitely wrong (in at least some respects)Well, that's your opinion now isn't it buddy?
I do not think it is as simple as that. I think that, if a god exists and life is some sort of test, then he would be able to see every potential that could happen, but by not interfering the events that actually happen are one out of the many infinite possible iterations. Maybe this could explain Parallel Dimensions too, if a god is playing out all those possible iterations at the same time.It is a Test? - since God knows the results, this would be unnecessary
Haha so by disagreeing with my opinion and supporting his opinion you therefore stated your own opinion!!!you can't call everything an opinion just to grant yourself immunity to being told you're wrong
Well if you want to put the blame on Adam and Eve then fine, but please note that one could make a very good case for why God is the one at fault in the story.Haha I'm sorry isn't this all Adam and Eve's fault? Seriously, isn't the answer to this argument in Genesis (i.e. first chapter of the Bible)?
you missed the point by a fantastic fucken marginHaha so by disagreeing with my opinion and supporting his opinion you therefore stated your own opinion!!!
Congratz man, you sure showed me!
But god will know the result in every possibility so why would he create people who he knows are going to fail and suffer, why not only create the people he knows will choose right and lead happy lives.I do not think it is as simple as that. I think that, if a god exists and life is some sort of test, then he would be able to see every potential that could happen, but by not interfering the events that actually happen are one out of the many infinite possible iterations. Maybe this could explain Parallel Dimensions too, if a god is playing out all those possible iterations at the same time.
I think Brain raised it earlier in this thread: If God can know the outcome of the test, it's not a test by definition, and Adam & Eve had no choice and no free-will. They were predestined to eat the fruit and fail the test, and so God removed them from Eden for something not their fault.Well if you want to put the blame on Adam and Eve then fine, but please note that one could make a very good case for why God is the one at fault in the story.
This video does a pretty good job.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQBDGMj2h-c
Sure, that works, if God is as resourceless as a pet owner. Unfortunately, according to common wisdom, he is not. God could have made pets that never make stupid decisions and never even want to.I'm just going to address the free will one, since all the rest of the questions ultimately talk themselves in circles:
Hypothetically "God" could have given us free will in the same way we give "free will" to a pet. Yes, we could control their voice by giving them a shock collar, control their actions by punishing them, control their movement by shutting them in a cage, control their opinion by starving them when they don't like the new food.
But we choose to let them outside, even knowing they could get loose or hit by a car, because we want them to have that freedom and to be happy. We choose to let them roam the house with us even knowing they could make a stupid decision and we might regret it, and even when they DO we tend to only regret it for a short while before seeing them miserable makes us guilty and we let them free again.
Obviously it's on a different scale, but same concept. We could control everything they do, but why? Why even have a living thing then?
On that note I'm athiest, so forgive me if it's crude and not as eloquent as some explanations probably were.
Ignoring the omniscient/omnibenevolent contradiction: If your mother steals something when she's a teenager, does the government give the same 100$ fine to all of her descendants? Of course not. There's no logic in that. And that same non-logic applies to the "first sin" story.Haha I'm sorry isn't this all Adam and Eve's fault? Seriously, isn't the answer to this argument in Genesis (i.e. first chapter of the Bible)?
Well, that's your opinion now isn't it buddy?
The argument has been brought up many times. We're dismissing it (repeatedly, it seems) because it doesn't hold water. As of right now, many people are not willing to do many things. You don't need to force me not to kill anyone, I just don't have the will to do it and in all likelihood I never will.ITT Lack of understanding of the importance of Free Will. Not that I claim to know how important it is but I do know this - Not being able to live the life you want to live it is a bad thing overall. Forcing people to do things (outside of responsibilities and duties) against their will is not a good thing.
As far as I can tell, I haven't really done anything evil in my life (unless you're one of these imbeciles who put white lies on the same level as theft or murder). Are you telling me I have no free will? I guess not. So imagine someone who wants to kill someone. I wouldn't force that person not to kill. I would simply make sure that this person doesn't ever exist. This is not rocket science, is it?So I guess that's what you guys want? To be enslaved to an all-powerful being?
Let me acquaint you with the God of Irony. The God of Irony created the universe and all that, he is all powerful and omniscient. The only peculiar trait of that God is that he just loves irony. Instead of being omnibenevolent, one could say that this deity is omnihumorous. Therefore, all believers of all religions are sent straight to hell, whereas non-believers are sent to heaven.Just remember guys, If we're comparing Risk/Reward, our Risk is INFINITELY lower than yours and same holds true for Reward (assuming we're correct). I mean if you guys are right about God not being real and stuff then cool story bro, you don't even get bragging rights lol
This is a logically consistent viewpoint; you're saying that God is not ominpotent, ergo he can't see the outcome of the test before it happened and he cannot create people only people that will not be evil, but he is benevolent (or at the very least, neutral).It's ironic that this would be my first post in a Pokemon forum, but I had to jump at this opportunity. I am on the receiving end of a ton of jokes and hurtful remarks at school because of my Christianity, or what some of my friends like to call "blind faith." I believe that since God gave us free will, he cannot know exactly what we will do at any given time. It is definitely a test, to see which of us will receive eternal glory or eternal damnation depending on the true nature of our souls. In other words, everyone will eventually get exactly what they deserve. Evil exists to test us. If we give in to evil, we have shown that our soul is not worth saving. If we rise above it, however, and choose to do the right thing, we will be rewarded for eternity. Evil exists because of human choices, and because of those choices, other humans are able to show the worth of their own souls. God may know everything happening in the now, but I definitely think he has no idea what anyone may do in the future.
That God doesn't know what we will do at least makes your position more consistent. But there are still several glaring flaws:It's ironic that this would be my first post in a Pokemon forum, but I had to jump at this opportunity. I am on the receiving end of a ton of jokes and hurtful remarks at school because of my Christianity, or what some of my friends like to call "blind faith." I believe that since God gave us free will, he cannot know exactly what we will do at any given time. It is definitely a test, to see which of us will receive eternal glory or eternal damnation depending on the true nature of our souls. In other words, everyone will eventually get exactly what they deserve. Evil exists to test us. If we give in to evil, we have shown that our soul is not worth saving. If we rise above it, however, and choose to do the right thing, we will be rewarded for eternity. Evil exists because of human choices, and because of those choices, other humans are able to show the worth of their own souls. God may know everything happening in the now, but I definitely think he has no idea what anyone may do in the future.
If it ensured I would have eternal bliss in the afterlife? Hell yes!So I guess that's what you guys want? To be enslaved to an all-powerful being?
We have no free will when it comes to spiritual matters. We can not obtain our salvation. Our only free will is in earthly matters (within the physical bounds of reason, which God set up.) God constantly upholds his creation as well as providing for our needs according to his will. We lost our free will in spiritual matters when man decided to screw God's rule. Now all we desire to do is evil and God rightfully and justifiably threw down a curse on the earth. Since God is all powerful, he can make man responsible for his actions in the form of making creation "Very Good" (Without Sin) and giving man the option to a full on useful relationship as well as putting man in control of his creation.The issue with this is that pet owners are not all powerful. For them it is necessary to take risks for the overall happiness and wellbeing of their pet. Since God is supposed to be all-powerful, he is capable of enriching our lives fully and allowing us to be happy without doing so.
You ask why there would be any point in life at all then? The simplest answer to this that either God doesn't exist, does not care about us or is not all-powerful. Free will is not an explanation for why God created life. There is in fact no good reason for this. If he really loves us all so much, why do we not all simply go straight to heaven? By the way, to all of you who are suggesting that the world is as good as it can be, you have to remember that many of you do in fact believe in such a place as heaven, where there is no evil. Also, another curious question: do we have free will in heaven? From what has been suggested, since there is no evil in heaven, we cannot have free will there. Therefore perfection can be achieved without free will, which means that by providing it, God is knowledgably causing suffering.
By the way, it is not the argument's fault that we are cycling. That is the fault of people who (understandably) have not read the whole thread, and of people who know they are losing an argument trying to stall.
Wow. Speak for yourself, you terrible human being.Now all we desire to do is evil and God rightfully and justifiably threw down a curse on the earth.