Resource DPP Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread

[Jaxhawk]

Can't say I played during, the DPP metagame but the philosophy Latias checks Salamence, so Mence is fine is flawed. Salamence infact enables Latias to destroy the tier with Specs Draco Meteors.
When Salamence was allowed, the 4 attacks Life Orb set was not feasible for the metagame to switch into. Forget DD sets, the metagame couldn't handle MixMence itself. Checks were way too limited to choice scarf Jirachi and Scizor that the metagame was shifted to a one-dimensional Draco Meteor spam with hazards.
The very reason Latias was once banned was due to the fact that the tier could not handle Latias and Salamence on the same team. Latias Choice Specs Draco Meteor could not be switched into when your team had already been destroyed by its teammate Salamence.
Unbanning Mence just leads to a tried and tested unhealthy metagame, so Salamence stays banned.

 

[Hydra089]

I wouldn't mind testing a Rachi ban, or throwing Mence back in. I find the current meta "big 5" boring. And Serene Grace Body Slam + Flinch is jank. Chomp can stay on Uber though I wish you could select Gen 4 Uber as a playlist besides the spotlight RoA stuff. But yeah, DPP OU meta broing AF.

 

[twigster]

I wouldn't mind testing a Rachi ban, or throwing Mence back in. I find the current meta "big 5" boring. And Serene Grace Body Slam + Flinch is jank. Chomp can stay on Uber though I wish you could select Gen 4 Uber as a playlist besides the spotlight RoA stuff. But yeah, DPP OU meta broing AF.

You would quickly find out what we found out back in 2009 or so: Mence + Latias is just too much to handle in Gen 4.

I don't want to ban Jirachi, I just really want Jirachi + Iron Head to be banned. Scrubby opinion probably, and unlikely because it's a complex ban, but it really is absurd.

 

[Taliheim]

Been out of touch with the meta for a good while, but it looks like the trend is still to build inherently chip-resistant teams over running removal or attempting to enable more vulnerable mons. With this in mind, is Hail currently a useable idea? And if so, what's the general way that hail gets constructed? The few resources I've found on the subject are currently too outdated to remain relevant, made before the clef/lati era.

 

[mael]

Been out of touch with the meta for a good while, but it looks like the trend is still to build inherently chip-resistant teams over running removal or attempting to enable more vulnerable mons. With this in mind, is Hail currently a useable idea? And if so, what's the general way that hail gets constructed? The few resources I've found on the subject are currently too outdated to remain relevant, made before the clef/lati era.

i think hail has a lot more room for experiments and potential to do well. your line of logic is very good and i think punishing the residual resistant teams by running knock clef on hail (maybe some other knock mon) can be done super well. the biggest issue is being more residual resistant than they are, since with abomasnow you're already running a rocks + spikes weak mon. but i do think that if you were to go along the lines of aboma (maybe with focus punch) + clefable + starmie (maybe other spinner) you could end up with a good team. there was one used in classic playoffs for example (i think kristyl vs conflict, but i might be wrong) that forced these ideas down. i also think that cm clef on hail might be a good call. sadly there is not much resources to read up on that because it is still very unexplored.

 

[Laurel]

Been out of touch with the meta for a good while, but it looks like the trend is still to build inherently chip-resistant teams over running removal or attempting to enable more vulnerable mons. With this in mind, is Hail currently a useable idea? And if so, what's the general way that hail gets constructed? The few resources I've found on the subject are currently too outdated to remain relevant, made before the clef/lati era.

I’ll second Mael’s point. Hail actually has gotten much better with Latias. Hail both threatens Latias and utilizes Latias very well defensively.

For full stall - Abomasnow / Clefable is almost required you need a fire/fighting check. Latias is the only mon that does this well and doesn’t take big damage from spikes / rocks.

With stall you want to ensure you can beat opposing stall so Wish Clefable is a necessity.

Some examples:

full stall: Sub Seed Abomasnow / Wish Clefable / CM or Reflect Lati / Jirachi / Rotom-Frost / Starmie

Offense: Mixed Abomasnow (I recommend Focus Punch for Clef) / OTR Bronzong / Starmie / CB Tyranitar / Scizor / Gyarados

Walrein is also a usable mon with Abomasnow but you’ll have to accept that your team will have some big defensive holes because you’ll likely only have room for 1 steel-type with this.

Biggest takeaway for building with Aboma is ensure you have proper fire / fighting switch ins who can easily OHKO aboma.

 

[BugTrainerNate]

Simple question, how viable is Aerodactyl lead in the current metagame? I rarely come across any and would like to get some advice before testing myself. Thanks!

 

[Jaxhawk]

Simple question, how viable is Aerodactyl lead in the current metagame?

As it has always been. Aerodactyl is the fastest lead and can guarantee you get rocks OR prevent opposing rocks in the lead slot. It is good on HO teams with several Stealth rock weak mons and Focus sash users. However it loses to several other leads and also fails to dent opposing teams unlike other suicide leads. It means playing the game 5-6 but with the advantage of having rocks or preventing them.

 

[mael]

it is rarely ever worth it honestly and it has an awful winrate over like all bigger tournaments, but it can be good if you're like super sure ur opponent is gonna bring azelf. i generally would advise against it unless there is a really really good and specific reason for it

 

[awyp]

Are we ever going to suspect test Jirachi?

 

[SFG]

Are we ever going to suspect test Jirachi?

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ns-simple-answers-thread.3687274/post-9296457

The answer is probably still the same one, even though the metagame has evolved

 

[Jeong]

Simple question, how viable is Aerodactyl lead in the current metagame? I rarely come across any and would like to get some advice before testing myself. Thanks!

Aerodactyl was never a good lead, especially if you run into an Empo, gross, or Scarf rachi. It usually goes well against Azelf or other more passive leads like pert or Hippowdon. It has great speed which allows it to easily taunt and prevent them from being able to SR in the first place. The problem is that unlike other offensive leads it doesn't have something like Explosion to put pressure on it better. Still, it can be annoying vs. offensive teams.

I'm not sure if it has become more important in the current meta, but what I do know is that it can go well with support from Lum Berry vs Scarf loom - Roserade lead which is something that is being used and can be annoying. But this is something very specific since I think it is more useful to wear Sash. There's also the surprise factor PHerb + Sky Attack to Machamp lead or even push in some way to remove your SRs since you have a 30% flinch.

You really have to be very confident to play Aero as it's pretty much going with one less. Normally if you start at a disadvantage from the beginning it is likely that you will end up losing.

 

[MilkyWay]

Was clefable always highly ranked on the viability ranking thread even when DPP was the current gen, or did people only start retroactively using it after it became an OU staple in gen 6?

 

[mael]

it was used a little when dpp was cg, by like the beginning and mid of 2010 at least a few teams used it (but not many). it only really came to be popular when the superman stalls (no hazards weak mons stalls) were figured out and started to use. when dpp was cg stall in general looked differently and due to mence being around most teams were not as they were today and the meta was a little more volatile.

 

[togaquest]

Been out of touch with the meta for a good while, but it looks like the trend is still to build inherently chip-resistant teams over running removal or attempting to enable more vulnerable mons. With this in mind, is Hail currently a useable idea? And if so, what's the general way that hail gets constructed? The few resources I've found on the subject are currently too outdated to remain relevant, made before the clef/lati era.

I recently used a Hail team in the Guts Challenge in the achievements thread and broke the record so it is viable to an extent.

 

[togaquest]

I wouldn't mind testing a Rachi ban, or throwing Mence back in. I find the current meta "big 5" boring. And Serene Grace Body Slam + Flinch is jank. Chomp can stay on Uber though I wish you could select Gen 4 Uber as a playlist besides the spotlight RoA stuff. But yeah, DPP OU meta broing AF.

Instead of throwing Mence back in, I think it would be interesting to drop Mew down and test it. Any idea why its banned, especially since Baton Pass is now illegal? Imo Mew is a lot less dangerous than Mence, and has a worse typing and ability than Jirachi/Latias. The main reason I think Mew could be considered too good for OU is its huge movepool which makes it tough to have an immediate hard counter. Imo its worth a test

Edit: Now that I'm thinking of it, dropping Mew down would likely make things go haywire. So many possible sets would alter the entire tier for some time. I would imagine the first few days would be chaos. I would predict U-turn, T-tar, and Weavile would be pretty popular. SD/NP/RP/Mixed sets might be too much to prepare for imo

 

[Jeong]

I think you don't need to try Salamence in OU to make this more fun. In fact, it would be quite the opposite. Ubers is your place.

As for Mew, it's really interesting, but the problem is that it's very unpredictable and has answers for any 'threat'. It would force you to bring very specific things and still not be enough preparation.

For going along with this... what about Manaphy? I think I remember that in his day he was in OU. In my opinion I don't think he abuses more than Mew. If Latias is back, why not Manaphy? And unlike Mew, he doesn't become as unpredictable. The best set for it is TGlow or CM with Rest. Maybe, like Latias, it changes the meta a bit and forces you to carry certain things, but... you can try.

 

[SFG]

Thanks to the combination of WoW , Soft boiled, and its natueal bulk, Mew would be a pain to deal with, and a really unhealthy adding to the DPP metagame. Even if I don't think it would be as good as a defensive set, an offensive set with NP+ 3 attacks would be a threat too, especially with Mew's movepool.

Concerning Manaphy, this Mon definitely belongs to Ubers to me. Even if tail glow raises the user's spAtk "only" by 2 stages, with Manaphy natural bulk and good typing, you can easily have to trade 2 mons to rk it. You probably won't be sweeped by manaphy if you run some speed control, but I can't see how it could bring anything healthy to the current metagame. And to be honest, I don't see any unban that could.

 

[twigster]

Instead of throwing Mence back in, I think it would be interesting to drop Mew down and test it. Any idea why its banned, especially since Baton Pass is now illegal? Imo Mew is a lot less dangerous than Mence, and has a worse typing and ability than Jirachi/Latias. The main reason I think Mew could be considered too good for OU is its huge movepool which makes it tough to have an immediate hard counter. Imo its worth a test

Edit: Now that I'm thinking of it, dropping Mew down would likely make things go haywire. So many possible sets would alter the entire tier for some time. I would imagine the first few days would be chaos. I would predict U-turn, T-tar, and Weavile would be pretty popular. SD/NP/RP/Mixed sets might be too much to prepare for imo

You already answered yourself, but I think Swords Dance + explosion would be what drives everyone insane, in addition to all its other sets that probably can't be checked reliably.

Keep in mind that base 100 stats in DPP is still really good.

 

[togaquest]

But the question I want answered is if whether or not would be Mew better than Jirachi in OU? Would Mew usurp Jirachi's S1 rank here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/dpp-ou-viability-ranking-mk-v.3683332/ ?
(if Mew can't take Jira's #1 spot, then Mew is OU right?)
Edit: I also just realized that Mew is UU in the next Gen (BW) as well

Pros Jirachi has over Mew:
Better Typing (notably not weak to Pursuit/U-turn, resists Bullet Punch/ESpeed/Dragon/SR, immune to Poison)
Better Ability (Serene Grace is highly abusable, Synchronize not so much)

Pros Mew has over Jirachi:
Larger Movepool (though Jirachi's is vast as well)
Notably access to stronger stat boosting moves like SD and NP as well as Explosion/ASphere/Softboiled/Wisp/Taunt
Best Baton Passer in the game

Both are able to run versatile sets
Both have exact stat distributions

Honestly tough to say if Mew would be considered to be the 'very best' in OU over Jirachi. The quality they both share is that both are "uncounterable" at first glance and require the player to know what type of set it is running.

Thanks to the combination of WoW , Soft boiled, and its natueal bulk, Mew would be a pain to deal with, and a really unhealthy adding to the DPP metagame.

Imo this could be one of Mew's best sets:
Edit: I just noticed a very similar set is on Mew's BW page (at least my line of thought was correct then)

Mew @ Leftovers / Colbur Berry / Kasib Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: Unsure
Unsure Nature
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss / Psychic / Surf / Earthquake / Thunder Wave

Would function similarly to the Gliscor stall-breaker set imo.
Answers to this set might be Gengar/Rotom/Jirachi/Trick/Toxic Spikes/Paralysis*/Faster Taunters
Scarf Scizor could also blast it with U-turn**. Band Scizor could play mind games with BP/Pursuit on a weakened Mew.
Scarf/Lum Ttar could mess with it as well (Specifically Lum Ttar could DD on the Wisp or just play with Crunch/Pursuit).
Scarf/Specs Heatran could intercept a Wisp**. Or just wall the set depending on Mew's moveset.
Also maybe Lum Machamp or set-up sweepers holding a Lum Berry like Gyarados and Dragonite.
WoWs faulty accuracy could also be factored into this somehow.
* I want to mention that Syncrhonize has a niche use in foiling paralysis plans, for example JIrachi Para+Flinch
** U-Turn to Heatran on the Wisp?? Sounds like a good combo

Even if I don't think it would be as good as a defensive set, an offensive set with NP+ 3 attacks would be a threat too, especially with Mew's movepool.

I want to mention that Azelf is a similar pure Psychic in OU with access to NP and good coverage moves (as well as Explosion) with higher attacking stats and speed yet the NP set is hardly considered too powerful for the tier (Azelf doesn't have Aura Sphere but can substitute with HP Fighting which is only 20 less base power).

You already answered yourself, but I think Swords Dance + explosion would be what drives everyone insane, in addition to all its other sets that probably can't be checked reliably.

Also outside of Explosion for the SD set for Mew, its other attacking moves are meh at best (Psychic-STAB, no good priority move). So the strat would be to predict the Explosion with a Ghost or Protect. Lucario/Scizor/Nape/Weavile/Kabutops are better OU SD sweepers I think.

Now that I'm thinking of it, a strategy would be to SD with Mew, U-Turn on the next turn to see the opponent's response. If it's a Ghost, switch to Scarf Ttar to Pursuit trap it. Then SD with Mew again and Explode on the next Pokemon. Then have another SD sweeper like one of the others I mentioned finish the team off.

 

[Shedinja-43152]

Hello to all!
I would ask where I can find sample teams and strategies to Anythinggoes on gen4?

 

[Hiro']

Hello to all!
I would ask where I can find sample teams and strategies to Anythinggoes on gen4?

You can take a look at this thread

 

[Shedinja-43152]

You can take a look at this thread

So many ubers in sample teams, I'm justing wonder who is the best pokémon to use a double team or a fissure.
I guess Dugtrio is the best to try a Fissure since it is very fast and Ninjask is the best to try double team because it can pass it up by batom pass.

Also the therad is close to further replies

 

[Rowlet4Ever]

Hey, Im in a gen 4 draft. Does anyone have any strats/suggestion or things to watch out for?

non ou pokemon that are available are deoxys speed, latios, salamence, garchomp, wobbuffet

 

[togaquest]

can someone give an answer to why dugtrio's arena trap is banned?