DP Electivire

Great Sage

Banned deucer.
Seph and I intended to work on this back when the Electivire analysis still had stuff like the Screech set, but since Seph is a chronic procrastinator and never got this posted in time, I guess I'll do it. Overall, the Meditate set has been relegated to a mention in Other Options, and the mixed sets have been edited.

[SET]
name: It's Super Effective!
move 1: ThunderPunch
move 2: Ice Punch
move 3: Cross Chop
move 4: Earthquake
item: Expert Belt / Life Orb
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Electivire's physical movepool is quite vast, and this set showcases the choicest picks, which represent an enormous range of type coverage. ThunderPunch is a bit on the mild side in terms of base power for a STAB attack, but still hurts many Water and Flying Pokemon for acceptable damage. Ice Punch complements ThunderPunch well and hits Dragon, Ground, and Grass Pokemon savagely, and Cross Chop offers additional support to the moveset by slamming Normal and Rock types like Blissey and Tyranitar. Earthquake rounds out the set and picks off what the other attacks can't.</p>

<p>The four move combination in this set hit 13 out of the 17 Pokemon types super effectively (Bug, Psychic, Fighting, and Ghost are the only types neutral, resistant, or immune to all four), so Expert Belt is a great choice; it capitalizes on the super effective hits by boosting them by 20%. However, Life Orb boosts all attacks by 30%, so one may elect to expend sustainability for more reliability and power. It is an enormous sacrifice, though, because of the variety of residual damage available, including Stealth Rock and Sandstorm.</p>

[SET]
name: Physically Based Mix
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Ice Punch
move 3: Cross Chop
move 4: Earthquake
item: Expert Belt / Life Orb
nature: Lonely
evs: 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set is a minor twist on the previous one that introduces Thunderbolt in ThunderPunch's slot. Thunderbolt's net damage is less than that of ThunderPunch on Electivire because of the 28 base offense difference and massive EV differences, but is often more useful. Many Pokemon that Electivire might come upon have greater Defense than Special Defense, such as Skarmory. ThunderPunch is only a 2HKO on it, whereas Thunderbolt is an OHKO. This increased damage also follows for other physically defensive Pokemon like Weezing and Slowbro. However, Thunderbolt tends to be less powerful on Vaporeon, Suicune (because it can use Calm Mind), Milotic, and other Water Pokemon.</p>

<p>Some EVs have been allocated in Special Attack to give Thunderbolt a bit of extra kick by taking out of Speed, retaining 270 to beat out Heracross without a Speed boosting nature or a Choice Scarf. Expert Belt and Life Orb are still the favored items.</p>

[SET]
name: Specially Based Mix
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Cross Chop
move 3: Flamethrower / Ice Punch
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Grass
item: Life Orb
nature: Mild
evs: 96 Atk / 236 SpA / 176 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>From the physically based mixed Electivire springs the next evolution, the specially based mixed Electivire, which is quite an effective anti-metagame tool. Thunderbolt is this set's main attack, a standard affair of STAB, and has slightly (about 6%) more power than ThunderPunch assuming both Attack and Special Attack are maximized. Cross Chop intends to prevent special walls, most of which are weak to Fighting, from trampling this set. The main line of tertiary moves is Flamethrower and Hidden Power Ice; Flamethrower hits Steel Pokemon that are usually more physically based and smashes Metagross and Jirachi, and is good to use against Breloom and Tangrowth, while Hidden Power Ice devastates Garchomp, Gliscor, and Salamence. Hidden Power Grass is a decent option to kill Swampert and Rhyperior, but loses coverage against Dragons and Gliscor; if one wishes to still hit those, Ice Punch is available over Flamethrower.</p>

<p>Enough Special Attack has been invested to OHKO the standard Swampert on the switch-in with Hidden Power Grass assuming Stealth Rock is in play, but even a very small bit of damage from Flamethrower or Cross Chop will put said Swampert into OHKO range anyways. The Speed outruns most Heracross, and the rest is dumped into Attack to make Cross Chop a bit stronger.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Low Kick has better accuracy than Cross Chop and even hits some threats like Tyranitar harder, but it only receives 60 base power on Blissey, which isn't enough for a 2HKO. Thunder is a possibility over Thunderbolt for its extra power, considering Electivire's comparatively mediocre Special Attack; its accuracy is poor, though. Meditate and Screech work with the physical sets; the former is Electivire's only way to boost its own Attack, while the latter can force switches, which works well in conjunction with Spikes or Stealth Rock. Psychic might catch a Machamp or other Fighting-type. Quick Attack is always nice for a priority move.</p>

<p>As tempting as Choice items might sound on Electivire, they are not suggested, because Electivire derives power largely from its ability to cover a wide range of types with its good movepool by alternating attacks.</p>

[EVs]

<p>On the physical set, Electivire should use a basic 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe spread. The benefits of running maximum Speed include tying neutral Speed natured Yanmega, provided both have the same number of Speed boosts. The mixed sets need a minimum of 176 Speed EVs, or 270 Speed, in order to outrun Adamant Heracross; the offensive EVs should be focused based on the specialization of the set. For the mixed sets, Electivire should always run a nature that decreases Defense instead of Special Defense because its Special Defense is actually decent and permits it survival against some Surfs from Water Pokemon, whereas it folds to basically any respectable physical attack.</p>

[Opinion]

<p>Electivire is most certainly not as excellent as the veils of hype surrounding it make it appear, but it still boasts some remarkable qualities. 123 base Attack is very good, and adding 95 base Special Attack makes it a good mixed attacker. Additionally, Motor Drive is an excellent ability, especially because it boosts Electivire's average Speed and prevents paralysis from its most common source, Thunder Wave. It is through Motor Drive and a Water-type teammate that Electivire can be used most effectively, as Water-types draw Electric attacks that activate the ability. Gyarados, which is particularly vulnerable to Electric attacks, is a good choice, as it can also switch in on Earthquakes aimed at Electivire. Electivire's movepool is vast and offers some of the best type coverage in the game, letting it defeat a variety of foes easily.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Swampert is the best counter for Electivire that don't have Hidden Power Grass. It doesn't stand to be hit super effectively by any other moves, and doesn't particularly care for even a Cross Chop on its high Defense. Hippowdon and Donphan are weak to Ice Punch and don't enjoy a Life Orb boosted Flamethrower, but their high Defense covers the Ice weakness. Hippowdon has a slight edge over Donphan in countering Electivire, because it can Slack Off residual damage and has better Special Defense, meaning it takes Flamethrower better. Both despise both Hidden Powers Electivire might have, but Hippowdon has a chance of surviving two Expert Belt boosted ones. Rhyperior is very weak to Hidden Power Grass, but has high Defense to take Cross Chop and Earthquake; additionally, it doesn't care much about Hidden Power Ice if Sandstorm is in effect. All four Ground-types OHKO Electivire with a STABed Earthquake.</p>

<p>Cresselia isn't afraid of a ThunderPunch and often has Rest to heal itself if necessary. It can't end Electivire in an instant like the Ground types; instead, it has to whittle it down using Ice Beam, Grass Knot, or Psychic, which is just fine in the case of a sturdy Pokemon like itself. Dusknoir's defensive capabilities are inferior to Cresselia's, but it can also chip away at Electivire.</p>

<p>Bronzong is a compromise between the previous two groups of counters. It is fairly stable, but usually lacks recovery, so it can't afford to switch in too rashly and risk an Electric attack or even worse, a Flamethrower. However, it often uses Earthquake to severely damage Electivire. Also in this particular group are Tangrowth, Forretress, and Weezing.</p>

<p>Electivire isn't too fast without a Motor Drive boost; without it, many Pokemon can outrun and faint it. Things with high Speed like Infernape and Weavile spring to mind. Dugtrio has the added benefit of trapping Electivire.</p>
 
It is an enormous sacrifice, though, because of the variety of residual damage available, including Stealth Rock and Sandstorm.
The way you say "...because of the variety of residual damage available, including Stealth Rock and Sandstorm" sounds weird. I'd replace "including" with "which include" or "such as".

Thunderbolt is this set's main attack, a standard affair of STAB, and has slightly (about 6%) more power than ThunderPunch...
The way this is phrased makes it seem as if the apositive phrase "a standard affair of STAB" is modifying "attack" instead of "Thunderbolt". If it were placed after "Thunderbolt", it would flow better.

Those are just grammar nitpicks, as everything else looks fine to me. I don't really have any other suggestions.
 

Colonel M

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Not saying that he should be added, but Tangrowth does pretty well against physical sets or anything that has Ice Punch over Hidden Power Ice, as Ice Punch is a 3HKO on Tangrowth and Earthquake could put Electivire out of commission. Even if you had to add it, Sleep Powder and Power Whip whittle him down. Not saying this should be added either, but Fire Punch also makes a good thought on the Physical sets if to tear around Metagross and Bronzong (but usually in that case you should use the Special Sets IMO). On a wierd note, he learns Barrier and Light Screen. Well, I guess I never knew about Barrier.

Anyways, to drift on topic, in the counters section, you mention Flamethrower, however, wouldn't Hidden Power Ice still hit them harder than Flamethrower (this applies to Hippowdon and Donphan by the way).
 

Jibaku

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name: Specially Based Mix
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Cross Chop
move 3: Flamethrower / Ice Punch
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Grass
item: Life Orb
nature: Mild
evs: 96 Atk / 236 SpA / 176 Spe
imo EB needs to be mentioned as well. I believe it still hits 12 types SE (exceptions are Electric, Ghost, Fighting, Fire, Poison)

Things with high Speed like Infernape and Weavile spring to mind
I think Garchomp would be more suited to this spot instead of Weavile, since Electivire -can- survive a CB Ice Punch.
Hippowdon and Donphan are weak to Ice Punch and don't enjoy a Life Orb boosted Flamethrower, but their high Defense covers the Ice weakness. Hippowdon has a slight edge over Donphan in countering Electivire, because it can Slack Off residual damage and has better Special Defense, meaning it takes Flamethrower better
I don't think anyone will try to Flamethrower either of these. You might as well get straight to the point and say that they can't really take the Hidden Powers

Celebi does a fairly decent job at countering the first two sets. It takes less than 50% from a Life Orbed Ice Punch, and can Recover (something it has over Tangrowth)/Seed it off. EB Ice Punch does even less. The only thing it needs to fear is Flamethrower, but at least it can survive with a decent amount of health in case someone catches it offguard unlike Tangrowth.
 
I'd consider Flamethrower as an option over Earthquake on the physically based mix, as it's quite effective against Forry, Bronzong, Tangrowth, and a few other pokemon and EQ overlaps some with CC.

Jolly nature could be given a mention in other options or EV's. +speed nature allows you to beat the neutral 100 group as well as Garchomp, and the same group of pokemon with a Motor Drive boost if they're scarfed.

EV's said:
On the physical set, Electivire should use a basic 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe spread. The benefits of running maximum Speed include tying neutral Speed natured Yanmega, provided both have the same number of Speed boosts.
You say "benefits", but then only describe one actual benefit.

Overall, looks good.
 

Great Sage

Banned deucer.
There is nothing wrong with me saying "benefits"; I just included one example. The plural is still appropriate.
 
Both despise both Hidden Powers Electivire might have,
Double use of "both". Possibly change the second "both" to "any" or "the" (in which case you'd likely want to replace "might" with "would").

Other than that, I see no problems. Good job.
 

Blue Kirby

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It doesn't stand to be hit super effectively by any other moves, and doesn't particularly care for even a Cross Chop on its high Defense.
This isn't really a huge thing, but I'd prefer "Cross Chop with its high Defense" - it sounds somewhat awkward otherwise.

Nicely done though.
 
Dusknoir can run EQ from its base 100 attack to quickly end vire if it wants to although this is rare though.

It can also burn it with wisp too but you can predict that and go to your guts trait abuser or heatran to punish it.
 

Aldaron

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this post is for jrrrrrrr's and Aldaron's purposes...

should be deleted, site represents this thread's point
 

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