Dexit discussion thread

[Worldie]

So, I wanna bring up how external Pokemon media is handling Dexit: More specifically how they are flat-out ignoring it.

We already know the irony about the new anime season, which has hilariously shifted to an all-regions romp at a time where the games are permanently restricting the amount of available Pokemon for the first time in decades. Just in the most recent episode somebody was seen bringing in Turtwig on a plane to Galar, and when Ash and Gou encountered a Nickit, its national Pokedex number was displayed on their Rotom dexes.

Then there's the TCG. The first set isn't released yet, but among just the known cards of the base set we already got new cards for Regirock, Victini and Tapu Koko, legendary Pokemon which aren't even in the code for Sword and Shield.

Gotta admit, even as a Dexit defender this is kind of weird and I don't really know how to feel about it. Either the anime/TCG staff aren't communicating at all with the games people about this affair or they just don't care.

Honestly (as unpopular as it sounds) I see this as a opposite issue, aka "we" are giving it more value than the rest of the franchise does.

You never had a TCG set which featured all the pokemon (due to the rotation of sets), and the anime didn't exactly constantly shove all the 800+ pokemon at same time in the face, with lot of pokemon having shown maybe once or twice in the entire series if even.

I don't quite see why the TGC or the Anime would have to "adapt" to the game's Dexit when they've already been rotating Pokemon since ages.

And remember, "dexit" is a term we created, those pokemon aren't gone nor retconned. They're there, they will reappear again in future games at some point, exactly like they do in the TGC or the Anime.

(Once more bringing my unpopular opinion that the large majority of the franchise fans don't remotely care of the absence of National dex or Dexit itself, and SwSh sales shown it pretty well)

 

[DreamPrince]

So, I wanna bring up how external Pokemon media is handling Dexit: More specifically how they are flat-out ignoring it.

We already know the irony about the new anime season, which has hilariously shifted to an all-regions romp at a time where the games are permanently restricting the amount of available Pokemon for the first time in decades. Just in the most recent episode somebody was seen bringing in Turtwig on a plane to Galar, and when Ash and Gou encountered a Nickit, its national Pokedex number was displayed on their Rotom dexes.

Then there's the TCG. The first set isn't released yet, but among just the known cards of the base set we already got new cards for Regirock, Victini and Tapu Koko, legendary Pokemon which aren't even in the code for Sword and Shield.

Gotta admit, even as a Dexit defender this is kind of weird and I don't really know how to feel about it. Either the anime/TCG staff aren't communicating at all with the games people about this affair or they just don't care.

I don’t think are ignoring it, but they are rather taking advantage of it. The video I posted previously already explains it, but basically SwSh have enough content for one game, but they can always improve on it. What better way to do it than promise the remaining Pokémon? The anime probably serves as a way to children interested in old Pokemon. For example, a child sees Piplup on the anime, and when Diamond and Pearl remake comes out, the child buys it due to the promise of Piplup. Might be an unpopular opinion, but Dexit might have been planned to profit off the fact that every Pokémon has a cult following of some kind, no matter how scummy it is.

 

[Yung Dramps]

I don’t think are ignoring it, but they are rather taking advantage of it. The video I posted previously already explains it, but basically SwSh have enough content for one game, but they can always improve on it. What better way to do it than promise the remaining Pokémon? The anime probably serves as a way to children interested in old Pokemon. For example, a child sees Piplup on the anime, and when Diamond and Pearl remake comes out, the child buys it due to the promise of Piplup. Might be an unpopular opinion, but Dexit might have been planned to profit off the fact that every Pokémon has a cult following of some kind, no matter how scummy it is.

I've heard a few permutations of this theory, and I don't buy this one either because to me it seems like if this is the plan it'd make GF lose more money than they gain.

Let's assume Little Terrance absolutely loves Scyther to the point where its inclusion is the deciding factor in whether he'll buy the new Pokemon game or not. Yes, his purchase will be guaranteed on games where Scyther is in the Pokedex, but otherwise he isn't gonna bother and he'll ask his parents to buy him something else. And keep in mind, he can do this easily thanks to this wonderful thing called the Internet: Even if he doesn't have direct access, he can ask his parents to research whether Scyther is in the new games. Now, with unrestricted transferring in place, Little Terrance can bring forth Scyther in any future game he wants, thereby ensuring he'll buy more games.

Point is if Dexit is just some marketing ploy with few to no actual technical reasons to bait people into buying games for the promise of certain Pokemon, it's an incredibly stupid one that'll actually make GF lose money both on actual game sales and Home subscriptions.

 

[DreamPrince]

I've heard a few permutations of this theory, and I don't buy this one either because to me it seems like if this is the plan it'd make GF lose more money than they gain.

Let's assume Little Terrance absolutely loves Scyther to the point where its inclusion is the deciding factor in whether he'll buy the new Pokemon game or not. Yes, his purchase will be guaranteed on games where Scyther is in the Pokedex, but otherwise he isn't gonna bother and he'll ask his parents to buy him something else. And keep in mind, he can do this easily thanks to this wonderful thing called the Internet: Even if he doesn't have direct access, he can ask his parents to research whether Scyther is in the new games. Now, with unrestricted transferring in place, Little Terrance can bring forth Scyther in any future game he wants, thereby ensuring he'll buy more games.

Point is if Dexit is just some marketing ploy with few to no actual technical reasons to bait people into buying games for the promise of certain Pokemon, it's an incredibly stupid one that'll actually make GF lose money both on actual game sales and Home subscriptions.

That's the not the point the video is trying to suggest. Let's just say you are a brand new Pokemon player who does not have any previous Pokemon games. You begin to watch the anime shows Scyther being awesome. You take a liking to Scyther. DP remakes are announced, and Scyther is in the game. You get the game because Scyther is in it.

I highly doubt that Dexit is going to ruin sales of the Pokemon. I mean SwSh already have sold 6 Million copies, which makes it the biggest launch in the history of Pokemon,

 

[Hyper Cutter]

Gamefreak could have been replacing the whole movepool every generation since the series began, because the consistency you're talking about only matters if you could battle across generational lines. They make changes to old moves all the time - Tackle went from 35/95 to 50/100 to 40/100; Fire Blast, Hydro Pump etc. went from 120 power to 110; Outrage and friends went from 90 to 120 power; Jump Kick and High Jump Kick used to be 70 and 85 power. Cutting moves entirely is a little more significant, but not by that much. I don't think there's a rational justification for panicking that "moves that are complete staples could disappear next generation" since Gamefreak have very much adopted a buff-first mentality to date, and cutting a move is the ultimate nerf.

Also most of the moves that got axed were kind of... bad.

I mean, people love Hidden Power but good lord that move is a mess mechanically so I'm not too surprised it went too.

 

[Worldie]

I mean, people love Hidden Power but good lord that move is a mess mechanically so I'm not too surprised it went too.

Honestly of all the removals, Hidden Power was the best "balance wise".
The others are mostly irrelevant as far as movesets go. Yes Return/Frustration was annoying, but almost all the Pokemon that used it also had access to the likes of Double Edge, Body Slam or similar stabs, and while I know Pursuit was a key attack in smogon-metas, it was never really relevant or used consistently in either story nor VGC/BSS over just Knock Off / Crunch / other dark stabs.

But Hidden Power basically meant all pokemon (moreso special attackers) had access to a 60 BP coverage of choice.
Also, Hidden Power was basically the main reason that led to genning (or softreset nightmares for the very few legit competitive players around) when it came to legendaries, and all the QoL introduced this generation regarding competitive access (nature mints, new egg move passing, more accessible HAs) would have been for naught if people still had to sr/gen to get that 1% hidden power ice/fire on their legendaries.

Story spoiler

Can you imagine having to softreset Eternatus and have to go through ALL the scene potentially dozens of times? Makes softresetting gen 6 starters for nature look fun

 

[Morkal]

I'd like to bring up something about Dexit that a lot of people aren't talking about. The possibility that they originally planned to have all of the Pokemon available in Sword and Shield, but were forced to cut a large amount of them late in development due to meddling from corporate / Masuda / whoever is upstairs.

Let me explain.
(Also, here's video evidence that backs up what I say)

All of the movesets for ALL Pokemon (including cut mons) are in Sword and Shield's data. If you hack in the data, it uses the model of a Pikachu but the movesets themselves are still present (identical to their Gen 7 movesets). Interactions with TMs and evolution stones don't work, and previous moves are still in the games themselves (which everyone already knew about but it lends credence to this theory.

Now that we've established the "oh shit, that's still in the game?" Let's establish the "why." We've already established that Game Freak's official stance on why they removed the mons is patently false. (For those unaware, they stated that they were cut for "development time" yet according to a 2017 interview around Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon's release date, they had "already made high resolution models for the Switch", which means either they were lying back then, or are lying now. Either way, it's a lie). So why would someone upstairs make the developers remove the Pokemon so late in the game to the point where they can be hacked in and still have appropriate movesets attached?

It's simple, merchandise. This is definitely no new point, but big guns upstairs wants these games popped out yearly / bi-annually for the sake of merchandise rights (which sell ridiculous amounts, far more than the games themselves). So most likely someone at corporate told Game Freak (hey, we need to cut your development time by one year, do so by any means necessary). The quickest and easiest solution for them was to cut a massive amount of Pokemon.

By cutting the Pokemon it wouldn't save time on creating the models (since in 2017 they claimed the models were all done), it would save time however on the following.

- Having to program new Dynamax raids for countless old Pokemon.
- Having to create specialized overworld programming for the wild area.
- Messing with other Pokemon centric things such as jobs, gym challenges, encounter rates, etc
- By lowering the amount of Pokemon in the game, it makes the lower amount of introduced Pokemon (the second lowest introduced out of all generations, only behind Gen 6 which has an excuse because it was the jump from 2/2.5D to 3D) seem reasonable.

There were most likely a lot of other things involved.

Look, I'm not saying Sword and Shield are bad games. I'm not saying anyone on the development team had malicious intentions. I think they most likely asked for another year in development (Holiday 2020) and were told by corporate (hey, you can't do that, that'd be three years between releases, Holiday 2019 or else).

So what I'm saying is. People are directing their rage for dexit at the WRONG people. It most likely should be directed at the people who most likely cracked the whip on the poor developers. If they didn't want to delay it, they could have doubled Sword and Shield's budget from 20 million to 40 million. It would have still made up its merit in production costs EASILY + driven a hefty profit, along with funding an even bigger development team to pick up the slack.

 

[Zowayix]

Let's Go had everything but models and textures for all the non-Kanto mons also. Unfortunately the above doesn't really count as evidence.

 

[Siggu]

Having the data there, albeit unusable, is actually a sensible choice for HOME, as it simplifies the validation on whether a Pokémon is in the game, as well as converting data to make it suitable for SwSh.

So what I'm saying is. People are directing their rage for dexit at the WRONG people. It most likely should be directed at the people who most likely cracked the whip on the poor developers. If they didn't want to delay it, they could have doubled Sword and Shield's budget from 20 million to 40 million. It would have still made up its merit in production costs EASILY + driven a hefty profit, along with funding an even bigger development team to pick up the slack.

No. Software development doesn't work that way. The time you'd supposedly save by having more people is instead wasted by getting them ready to work on par with the rest.

 

[earl]

You know that it’s not particularly difficult to copy over the raw data of movesets and stuff because that universally applies to all pokemon, right? Everything being identical to gen 7 implies the raw data was copied over and then work was done from there

 

[Siggu]

You know that it’s not particularly difficult to copy over the raw data of movesets and stuff because that universally applies to all pokemon, right? Everything being identical to gen 7 implies the raw data was copied over and then work was done from there

Not to mention that's something they've been doing all the way from Gen III.

Especially in terms of items, as there are still a bunch of Gen IV key items in Sword and Shield's data.

 

[Shufflebotham Singh LLP]

Yes, this was really rather disappointing. I always look forward to collecting them all, and the limited size of the Pokedex only compounds the issue presented by the Wild Area that this is now a much simpler task. I feel this has really cut down the play time of the games, despite the heftier price tag. Not including all Kanto Pokemon seems bizarre too, although I guess they must avoid seeming to be playing favorites.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Something about Dexit that I feel like a lot of people forget about is that the National Dex was technically cut three years ago when Sun and Moon released. The Pokemon themselves may not have been barred from being transferred, but Pokemon not native to Alola (and even some that are native through Island Scan) didn't appear in the Pokedex.

I also take issue with the idea that not being able to "catch them all" is a bad thing. For the people who have already caught them all, getting the national dex is just a formality. They just transfer up all their old Pokemon, which I can't imagine being quick or engaging. Besides, those people can still keep their old Pokemon in Home, where I'm sure most of them will see just as much use as if they had been transferred to an actual game (this is especially true for people with living dexes).

Of course, not everyone, especially new players, can be expected to transfer up older Pokemon, which leads into a slight benefit of Dexit: it's possible to collect every available non-event Pokemon without transferring. To my knowledge, this has only been possible in Gen 1, Gen 3, and maybe Gen 6, and only in Gen 1 was it possible with just the first pair of games (also Gen 6 had the problem of some content being locked out of the first pair). While it would have been better if every Pokemon was able to be caught in Sword and Shield, Dexit does at least re-enable the idyllic Pokedex-completing scenario: children, each with only a single Pokemon game, working together with friends at school or camp or wherever to fill in the version-exclusive holes in each others' games and track down that one kid who chose the starter no one else did.

 

[Dialganet2]

Something about Dexit that I feel like a lot of people forget about is that the National Dex was technically cut three years ago when Sun and Moon released. The Pokemon themselves may not have been barred from being transferred, but Pokemon not native to Alola (and even some that are native through Island Scan) didn't appear in the Pokedex.

I also take issue with the idea that not being able to "catch them all" is a bad thing. For the people who have already caught them all, getting the national dex is just a formality. They just transfer up all their old Pokemon, which I can't imagine being quick or engaging. Besides, those people can still keep their old Pokemon in Home, where I'm sure most of them will see just as much use as if they had been transferred to an actual game (this is especially true for people with living dexes).

Of course, not everyone, especially new players, can be expected to transfer up older Pokemon, which leads into a slight benefit of Dexit: it's possible to collect every available non-event Pokemon without transferring. To my knowledge, this has only been possible in Gen 1, Gen 3, and maybe Gen 6, and only in Gen 1 was it possible with just the first pair of games (also Gen 6 had the problem of some content being locked out of the first pair). While it would have been better if every Pokemon was able to be caught in Sword and Shield, Dexit does at least re-enable the idyllic Pokedex-completing scenario: children, each with only a single Pokemon game, working together with friends at school or camp or wherever to fill in the version-exclusive holes in each others' games and track down that one kid who chose the starter no one else did.

I fail to comprehend how Dexit influences anything of the above. Keep it as in Sun and Moon, with all transferable mons, and it's the same scenario, but with more options, should you be inclined to use them for. "Kids at school" applies as well. I don't understand how removing options to part of the playerbase without enhancing anybody's experience is something positive.
Dexit has no benefits on the games, it's blatant now, nothing revolutionary was developed to balance the decisions. SwSh have problems that go beyond (I don't have the games, but I'm informed enough).
Cutting options is negative. Period point blank.

I also take issue with the idea that not being able to "catch them all" is a bad thing. For the people who have already caught them all, getting the national dex is just a formality. They just transfer up all their old Pokemon, which I can't imagine being quick or engaging. Besides, those people can still keep their old Pokemon in Home, where I'm sure most of them will see just as much use as if they had been transferred to an actual game (this is especially true for people with living dexes).

It's not about that, it's about the possibility of using all mons (or the option in itself), instead of having them stagnate in a cloud service (at least for me). Living Dexes are of course a collector's accomplishment, but more a convenience to have anything you may desire to use readily available. Want to start a game with a Snivy instead of Grookey? Want to obliterate everything with Mewtwo? Want to use Abomasnow during stories in Hawaiis? Why not? Better question: if you don't want to, is it a problem if somebody else can? No.
Ask every question viceversa (from the standpoint of no-options), and the answer is the same.
Justifying what they're doing with HOME (when it was announced and not expanded on even remotely while pushing out the games, an outlandish misbehavior) is, I am sorry, laughable. First of all, they bamboozle us by saying that "be happy, keep them there, you never know (literally) when you could use them!" which is just spitting in our faces.
Secondly, and more importantly, HOME coupled with perennial Dexit means that I have to pay a fee to have my mons incarcerated, and the gaolers decide at their own will when they will get an hour of fresh air and when not to. Compare that with having even my Carnivine at my disposal in Sun for whatever I like, whenever I like, and it's a no brainer. Especially when you have literally nothing in return.

Liking some of the new mons or forms? Good for you, you'll never know when they will be usable and up to the latest game development again.

Look, the games have been enjoyed by the majority of purchasers, and, for the 9658th time, I admit I am 100% sure I would enjoy them as well if I had them. But they should have never shipped in this state: multiplayer connections are a mess, basic features such as the GTS are missing, the postgame is barren (from what I've been told, even the battling facilities have accomplished the complicated task of getting worse), and it's clear by looking at the player travelling Galar that some parts of the game have been clearly left unfinished. It's a 60€/USD pricatag on a Switch, it should not be acceptable. If I may put it politely, I think the games (I find it perfectly fine to enjoy them, of course) can be defined as remarkably lackadaisical.

And that leads to a more concerning problem, if you will. The whole HOME situation could be a silver lining of sort: the games are "patchable" to greater extents now, what they could have done is still meet the deadline for the Holiday cash grab and do the XY Bank release once again months later, or, as disgusting as it sounds, release mons some at a time. It would be a placebo of sorts, but better than nothing and lies. It's not like they can't, it's that they seems like they don't want to, that they're satisfied with an incomplete game, and that in itself is disheartening.

Look, again and again, the games are a loads of fun, I'm sure, but thinking about what they are, and what they could actually be in a complete form has a depressive effect on me. Think what the game could be, reasonably of course, with complete post game, dungeons and exploration done right (I will never get this point, you don't have to follow the tails of mobile gaming, you need to differentiate from it), better Dex at game release (they could make it more feasible by using more the regional variants, an awesome concept that should be expanded upon) patched into full Dex, and maybe you could understand where I'm coming from.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I fail to comprehend how Dexit influences anything of the above. Keep it as in Sun and Moon, with all transferable mons, and it's the same scenario, but with more options, should you be inclined to use them for. "Kids at school" applies as well. I don't understand how removing options to part of the playerbase without enhancing anybody's experience is something positive.
Dexit has no benefits on the games, it's blatant now, nothing revolutionary was developed to balance the decisions. SwSh have problems that go beyond (I don't have the games, but I'm informed enough).
Cutting options is negative. Period point blank.

My point was that for the first time since Gen 1, it's possible to collect every available Pokemon without transferring or waiting for new games in the generation. Like I explicitly said in my post, it would have been ideal if this was accomplished by having every single Pokemon be available between the two games. But Dexit is the next best thing in that regard (and specifically in that regard).

It's not about that, it's about the possibility of using all mons (or the option in itself), instead of having them stagnate in a cloud service (at least for me). Living Dexes are of course a collector's accomplishment, but more a convenience to have anything you may desire to use readily available. Want to start a game with a Snivy instead of Grookey? Want to obliterate everything with Mewtwo? Want to use Abomasnow during stories in Hawaiis? Why not? Better question: if you don't want to, is it a problem if somebody else can? No.
Ask every question viceversa (from the standpoint of no-options), and the answer is the same.
Justifying what they're doing with HOME (when it was announced and not expanded on even remotely while pushing out the games, an outlandish misbehavior) is, I am sorry, laughable. First of all, they bamboozle us by saying that "be happy, keep them there, you never know (literally) when you could use them!" which is just spitting in our faces.
Secondly, and more importantly, HOME coupled with perennial Dexit means that I have to pay a fee to have my mons incarcerated, and the gaolers decide at their own will when they will get an hour of fresh air and when not to. Compare that with having even my Carnivine at my disposal in Sun for whatever I like, whenever I like, and it's a no brainer. Especially when you have literally nothing in return.

I never said anything about not being able to use a given Pokemon. That aspect is undeniably harmful. I was specifically calling out people, like the person who posted immediately before me, who only care about having a collection. If all you care about is the collection, Home will suit you just fine. You don't need to have them all in an actual game.

 

[Dialganet2]

My point was that for the first time since Gen 1, it's possible to collect every available Pokemon without transferring or waiting for new games in the generation. Like I explicitly said in my post, it would have been ideal if this was accomplished by having every single Pokemon be available between the two games. But Dexit is the next best thing in that regard (and specifically in that regard).


I never said anything about not being able to use a given Pokemon. That aspect is undeniably harmful. I was specifically calling out people, like the person who posted immediately before me, who only care about having a collection. If all you care about is the collection, Home will suit you just fine. You don't need to have them all in an actual game.

Whoopsie, seems like that, eager to reply, I left behind some nuances. My apologies. That being said...

Anecdotal evidence if you will, but I am someone who has both a pseudo-living Dex (it's never in one place, a lot of mons rotate between games, but I am sure I could put together a 1 to 807 collection with little effort) and at the same time the tendency to use a unholy variety of mons. I think that being able to "consult" the collection, have it move via animations, etc... is far better than having the lifeless sprite in Bank. We don't know how much HOME will expand with respect to Bank though, I'll give you that. It's hard to separate being a collector, or a breeder, or a battler... my guess is that most players, some more and some less, are a mixture of the above like myself: it's far better to have everything in your boxes, but if you just only want to have a passive collection I guess we can agree bank/home will serve.

Regarding the first point, I guess that "it's possible to collect every available Pokemon without transferring or waiting for new games in the generation" is a little consolation placebo if the available Pokemon are cut drastically. But you know what? This could be an interesting talking point for the future. Having two version of basically the same game with minor differences and 10-ish exclusive mons is growing stale, but you know what would make sense and an enticing pair of games for the whole fanbase? Split the whole National Dex across versions.
Keep the new mons with few exclusive, after all that's what everybody longs for in a new generation installment. But, after that, have a huge, and by huge I mean gargantuan, split in the old mons distribution: Sword gets Magikarp, Growlithe, Furret, Cyndaquil... Shield gets Feebas, Vulpix, Bidoof, Tepig... In the order of 350ish version exclusives for SwSh for instance.
You could make games very different, have both a huge version dex and regional dex. Maybe use a wider pool of regional variants (that are easier to make, having the original template to only tweak) to mitigate the sheer number of version exclusive if you want.
I know it sounds like a chore, but I think it could be feasible because a lot of people would be down to purchase both games, increasing the average spending per player greatly. And I would be down for that.

Now I'm off to cry in a corner. As an anti-Dexit salty guy with no SwSh, I have just envisioned a way for them to suck twice the money out of me again.

 

[Blazade]

Something about Dexit that I feel like a lot of people forget about is that the National Dex was technically cut three years ago when Sun and Moon released. The Pokemon themselves may not have been barred from being transferred, but Pokemon not native to Alola (and even some that are native through Island Scan) didn't appear in the Pokedex.

I also take issue with the idea that not being able to "catch them all" is a bad thing. For the people who have already caught them all, getting the national dex is just a formality. They just transfer up all their old Pokemon, which I can't imagine being quick or engaging. Besides, those people can still keep their old Pokemon in Home, where I'm sure most of them will see just as much use as if they had been transferred to an actual game (this is especially true for people with living dexes).

Of course, not everyone, especially new players, can be expected to transfer up older Pokemon, which leads into a slight benefit of Dexit: it's possible to collect every available non-event Pokemon without transferring. To my knowledge, this has only been possible in Gen 1, Gen 3, and maybe Gen 6, and only in Gen 1 was it possible with just the first pair of games (also Gen 6 had the problem of some content being locked out of the first pair). While it would have been better if every Pokemon was able to be caught in Sword and Shield, Dexit does at least re-enable the idyllic Pokedex-completing scenario: children, each with only a single Pokemon game, working together with friends at school or camp or wherever to fill in the version-exclusive holes in each others' games and track down that one kid who chose the starter no one else did.

You're right. I haven't transferred all that much since gen 5, because since then there's been nothing to do with my old pokemon. We still have to endure pentagon rule every gen for some fucking reason even though Movexit has shown they can update past pokemon to be in line with current balance standards, so I can't even use them in competition. But we should be looking to expand postgame, not make it so that transferring is vestigial.

You say "re-enable" the idyllic scenario of kids completing the dex as if it ever went away. As if the existence of Swampert or Landorus's compatibility diminishes the accomplishment of finishing the regional dex in the first place. You know what'd be really cool if I was 10 and owned this game? Using the GTS or older family and friends to get some of my other favorites onto my battle frontier teams even though I couldn't catch them normally. I know this because I started playing with Gen 3 but grew up with gen 1 movies and trading cards. I hadn't forgotten about Charizard or the legendary dogs. It warmed my heart when my friends with FRLG traded them to me, I didn't even know they were compatible! And that experience is easier now than it's ever been.

And I know I've lost. I don't need reminders that this is emphatically what the people want for some reason. But something's gotta give. Just because Dexit's the law of the land and it didn't affect a lot of people doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. I can accept the argument that it was a decent business decision that they got away with but it irks me when people try to spin it as a proactive, positive change to the formula.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

You say "re-enable" the idyllic scenario of kids completing the dex as if it ever went away. As if the existence of Swampert or Landorus's compatibility diminishes the accomplishment of finishing the regional dex in the first place. You know what'd be really cool if I was 10 and owned this game? Using the GTS or older family and friends to get some of my other favorites onto my battle frontier teams even though I couldn't catch them normally. I know this because I started playing with Gen 3 but grew up with gen 1 movies and trading cards. I hadn't forgotten about Charizard or the legendary dogs. It warmed my heart when my friends with FRLG traded them to me, I didn't even know they were compatible! And that experience is easier now than it's ever been.

I was thinking exclusively through the lens of children on similar ages all playing the same gen, but you're right that there is a beauty in older family members passing the torch of certain unobtainable Pokemon that I overlooked.

And I know I've lost. I don't need reminders that this is emphatically what the people want for some reason. But something's gotta give. Just because Dexit's the law of the land and it didn't affect a lot of people doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. I can accept the argument that it was a decent business decision that they got away with but it irks me when people try to spin it as a proactive, positive change to the formula.

Honestly, I'm just trying to grasp onto all the silver linings I can find. Dexit was a terrible decision for countless reasons. Literally the only upsides I've been able to find are that fairytale scenario I described earlier (which you're again right in Dexit not actually having that big of an impact in) and the competitive scene being revamped (time will tell if that ends up actually being a good thing).

 

[Yung Dramps]

I just had a funny thought. Suppose in a future game's pre-release hype cycle someone is able to leak the full returning Pokedex and it is proven as correct somehow (eg they confirm certain Pokemon getting regional variants/other new forms which are revealed a week later). Could information like that before launch be used to predict old character cameos?

Like imagine a leak like this stating Haxorus, Hydreigon, Lapras, Aggron, Druddigon and the Unova fossils will be available and people start speculating about Iris returning. Or someone combs through the leaked list and identifies returning aces of old important trainers.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I just had a funny thought. Suppose in a future game's pre-release hype cycle someone is able to leak the full returning Pokedex and it is proven as correct somehow (eg they confirm certain Pokemon getting regional variants/other new forms which are revealed a week later). Could information like that before launch be used to predict old character cameos?

Like imagine a leak like this stating Haxorus, Hydreigon, Lapras, Aggron, Druddigon and the Unova fossils will be available and people start speculating about Iris returning. Or someone combs through the leaked list and identifies returning aces of old important trainers.

Probably not. Cynthia appeared in Black and White despite Garchomp being nowhere to be found, and she uses a few Unova Pokemon on her team. With Dexit thrown into the mix, the best conclusion one could come to is that if a trainer's ace isn't in the dex, they probably won't appear as a fightable trainer. Of course, there's also the extremely likely scenario that there aren't any cameos. From what I can gather off Serebii, Sword and Shield doesn't have any.

Basically, trying to predict trainer cameos sounds only marginally more fruitful than trying to predict Smash Bros additions.

 

[Millky95]

Regarding the first point, I guess that "it's possible to collect every available Pokemon without transferring or waiting for new games in the generation" is a little consolation placebo if the available Pokemon are cut drastically. But you know what? This could be an interesting talking point for the future. Having two version of basically the same game with minor differences and 10-ish exclusive mons is growing stale, but you know what would make sense and an enticing pair of games for the whole fanbase? Split the whole National Dex across versions.

Gen 6 did this but between the set of pairs. Outside of events if you had all 4 of XY and ORAS you could have them all without transferring. That's how I got my NatDex when I had to get the train everyday to uni back in the day. This mostly might have been because going from gen 3 to 4 was impossible on the new hardware (dunno about 4 to 5 as I can't stand Gen 5) or due to the new pentagon but it was doable only 2 Generations ago.

 

[DreamPrince]

Gen 6 did this but between the set of pairs. Outside of events if you had all 4 of XY and ORAS you could have them all without transferring. That's how I got my NatDex when I had to get the train everyday to uni back in the day. This mostly might have been because going from gen 3 to 4 was impossible on the new hardware (dunno about 4 to 5 as I can't stand Gen 5) or due to the new pentagon but it was doable only 2 Generations ago.

4th generation did this as well, between DP, Pt, and HGSS, you can get all the Pokémon without transferring.

 

[Zowayix]

4th generation did this as well, between DP, Pt, and HGSS, you can get all the Pokémon without transferring.

Except the Regis, excluding the now-long-discontinued Plat event, which is a shame. It's so close...

 

[DreamPrince]

Except the Regis, excluding the now-long-discontinued Plat event, which is a shame. It's so close...

Oh, I suppose you are technically right on that. Chuggaconroy’s Let’s play of Platinum is best summary of my thoughts on that event.

You know, a valid of criticism of DPPT was that you needed a GBA to get the full experience, and this is a perfect example of that. Pearl was my very first Pokémon game, and you can imagine how annoyed I was when I couldn’t catch Regigigas because I didn’t play Ruby and Sapphire. I’d love a remake for the sake of no GBA requires features and faster saving of course.

 

[Millky95]

4th generation did this as well, between DP, Pt, and HGSS, you can get all the Pokémon without transferring.

Gen 3 needed the NGC games to get Lugia and Ho-oh outside of events

Gen 5 I didn't play much outside of White1 so not sure the case but I think the Dream Radar might have helped?

EDIT: Just checked and some Mons require Dream Radar to get in Gen 5. So I think only in Gens 1 and 6 are the only ones that you can complete the National Dex in with just main stream Pokemon games