I agree mega Luke is more predictable and we should test it however mixed sets will prevail. Scarf lando t was one of mega Luke's only checks and now ice punch hurts it even more by being special so it's a mixed(pun intended) bag for mega Luke
I don't get your point. Of course the reason Counter works on HP is because it's categorized as a Normal-type move. Since there was no physical/special split back then, there was no independent data to tell you whether a move was physical or special.Making it special seems like a bad idea in my opinion. Hidden Power was mention, but I don't feel it is the same thing. The reason why Counter works on Hidden Power despite type is because Hidden Power itself is a Normal-type move.
Or you could just check the type of the move to determine this. iirc, Night Shade was affected by Counter before the split, which makes sense because it is a Ghost-type move, which makes it physical. Also, no, what all physical moves have in common is that the damage is based off their physical attack and affects the opponents physical defense, and special moves are based off the special attack and are affected by the special defense. That's not a Pokemon thing - that's how RPGs work (replace "special" with "magic"). Obviously there are exceptions like Seismic Toss and Psyshock, but they are exceptions, and the exception part is stated in the effect. Hidden Power is categorized as a Normal-type move, so it reacted to Counter, because the Normal categorization made it physical. Secret Sword is a Fighting-type move, so it becomes physical. Yes, the effect becomes extremely redundant, but a more logical change would be to make it a physical move that does special damage. Hell, I wouldn't even bother doing that, because in the end it over complicates the entire meta for a single pokemon.I don't get your point. Of course the reason Counter works on HP is because it's categorized as a Normal-type move. Since there was no physical/special split back then, there was no independent data to tell you whether a move was physical or special.
I think you guys are forgetting the most important thing here. What does it mean being a "physical move" or a "special move"? How do you test them in game?
You see how they react to Counter/Mirror Coat. The fact that a move is affected by Counter means it's physical. That's literally the only thing all physical moves have in common. The (Special) Attack and (Special) Defense stats have nothing to do with it.
For example, in Gen VI Seismic Toss is a physical move while Night Shade is a special move. What's the difference? They use the exact same damage formula, which doesn't involve Attack or Special Attack.
Seismic Toss is affected by Counter, Night Shade is affected by Mirror Coat. That's the only difference between physical and special moves. That's the only way we know Secret Sword is a special attack that uses the target's Defense and not the other way around. (Of course, that's pretending the game didn't conveniently tell us the category of each move.)
I said "For example, in Gen VI Seismic Toss is a physical move while Night Shade is a special move." Night Shade is a special move in Gen VI. Of course, Night Shade was a physical move in Gen I-III.Or you could just check the type of the move to determine this. iirc, Night Shade was affected by Counter before the split, which makes sense because it is a Ghost-type move, which makes it physical.
An exception applies to a rule, not to something that all things of a category have in common. That's a contradiction.Also, no, what all physical moves have in common is that the damage is based off their physical attack and affects the opponents physical defense, and special moves are based off the special attack and are affected by the special defense. That's not a Pokemon thing - that's how RPGs work (replace "special" with "magic"). Obviously there are exceptions like Seismic Toss and Psyshock, but they are exceptions, and the exception part is stated in the effect.
Exceptions do not always have to apply to rules, and you're arguing semantics. The point is that physical attacks use the physical attack stat against the physical defense stat unless specifically stated.An exception applies to a rule, not to something that all things of a category have in common. That's a contradiction.
But that would be the only reason to do that is to give Keldeo a good special STAB, and nothing else. In that case, lets make Bolt Strike stay Physical, because Zekrom is the only thing that gets it and it would prefer it stay physical. Also, no, a fighting-type move being special back in gen 1-3 would of been silly, because then why not just do the split in the first place.Anyway, the point is that just like you can have an exception for Psyshock, a special move that uses the target's Defense, you can have an exception with a physical move that uses the user's Special Attack. It has happened before, it can be done.
There is no reason why Secret Sword should use the user's Attack and the target's Special Defense. Secret Sword exists so that Keldeo, a Pokémon with a good Special Attack stat, can use it to target both sides of the spectrum. It is also a freaking move that uses the user's SpA and the target's Def. And you'd rather change it in something to makes no sense at all (Keldeo wouldn't use it, the move would have nothing in common with how it works now) rather than admit that a physical move can use the user's SpA...
The only reason isn't to give Keldeo a good special STAB. A move like Secret Sword didn't and wouldn't have existed before the physical/special split, because a Special Fighting-type move would not have made sense in those circumstances. Secret Sword is a very unique move that shares only shares its effect with two other moves, which both would have been Special Attacks pre-Gen IV. Also, the argument in making Bolt Strike stay physical in this case doesn't hold up because it doesn't have the special effect that Secret Sword does. Zekrom would like to have it be physical, but it's not just because of its typing. Look at Sacred Fire post-split, for example. It doesn't make sense flavor-wise in being a Physical move. So why is it Physical? Because Ho-oh could make better use of it, and no other reason. I see no reason to make Secret Sword a physical move when it has a unique effect. That is why I decided to make it stay the same as. I hope that makes sense.But that would be the only reason to do that is to give Keldeo a good special STAB, and nothing else. In that case, lets make Bolt Strike stay Physical, because Zekrom is the only thing that gets it and it would prefer it stay physical. Also, no, a fighting-type move being special back in gen 1-3 would of been silly, because then why not just do the split in the first place.
On the bright side, pursuit is now special, hitting Alakazam on it's stronger defense and from Tyranitar's weaker attack stat. TTar has to invest heavily in special attack to have a decent chance at OHKO'ing on the switch.Zam sits in a really odd place. On one hand, it got the Elemental Punches and Knock Off for coverage, replacing the need for Hidden Power. However, it also lost 2 huge coverage moves for it - Focus Blast and Shadow Ball. This means that its best way to hit TTar is Dazzling Gleam / Energy Ball, the former being much more useful in general. Zam would probably run something like this
Alakazam @ Focus Sash / Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch / Fire Punch
You forgot to mention Rock Slide, so it gets psudo-EdgeQuake boosted by Sheer Force, and it has two slots open for Swords Dance, Rock Polish, HP (Ice or Fire), U-Turn, Focus Miss, Sludge Bomb, or even Gravity. I think that it might be worth suspecting at some point.Landorus-I: fuk dis gaem instead of special Sheer Force Landorus-I you now have Physical Sheer Force Landorus-I... who still gets the same moves (Earth Power, Focus Miss and Sludge Wave). Also remember that Landorus-I has better Atk than SpA. You literally don't need to run mixed for U-turn anymore. The only thing you lose is HP Ice, but with HP's power nerf it isn't a very appealing option anymore.
And that is the exact reason I don't like this decision. Forget the fact it is a Fighting type move, moves like Shadow Ball and Crunch stayed true to their respective typing's damage category, even though it would have made more sense flavor wise for them not too.The only reason isn't to give Keldeo a good special STAB. A move like Secret Sword didn't and wouldn't have existed before the physical/special split, because a Special Fighting-type move would not have made sense in those circumstances.
Foul Play doesn't necessarily need to be changed. For example, Beat Up, which is another Dark-type move that uses an unusual damage formula, used Attack and Defense even before the physical/special split, despite being a special move.Also, what about Foul Play? I assume that it will use the target's Special Attack aganst its Special Defense, but that hasn't been explicitly stated yet.
I think I like this one the best, since it does follow what the attack says, but also fits in with the lack of split.A third option is that Foul Play uses the opponent's Attack (because that's its special effect) but the opponent's Special Defense (because it's a Dark-type move).
The main reason I kept Secret Sword the way it is that it makes more sense (at least to me) for it to keep its special effect, instead of having it be just another Fighting move. Secret Sword was made that way for a reason, and I'm trying to change as little as possible in this metagame. It's as simple as that. I understand that people won't agree with these decisions, but I'm trying to make decisions that make sense and are healthy for the metagame. It's not like changing Secret Sword would have a huge impact on the meta, but it would be easier for it to remain unchanged.And that is the exact reason I don't like this decision. Forget the fact it is a Fighting type move, moves like Shadow Ball and Crunch stayed true to their respective typing's damage category, even though it would have made more sense flavor wise for them not too.
Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think the reason you want to make it Special is because it would keep Secret Sword usable, and you don't want to see a move with a unique effect become unusable due to poor distribution. If, for example, the rest of "The Swords of Justice" also had access to Secret Sword, you probably would have made it a Physical move that hit the target's Special Defense stat instead of leaving it special, because Terrakon, Cobalion, and Virizion all could make use of its unique effect, which would still fit thematically. While I understand that motivation, I don't think that it's a good reason to not change it.
Also, what about Foul Play? I assume that it will use the target's Special Attack aganst its Special Defense, but that hasn't been explicitly stated yet.
Here is a list of what I think will be improved Pokemon :
That's all I can think of right now.
- Alakazam and Reuniclus seem like pretty big threats, due to their hugely improved typing.
- Cresselia could be pretty great, especially since this metagame will probably be kinder to stallers than sweepers.
- Psychic-Steel types look quite good again due to the lack of good Ghost/Dark, but need to watch out for Earthquake and Fire Blast which will probably be very predominant.
- Houndoom is much better, able to carry Darkglasses with Sucker Punch, Pursuit, Fire Blast and Dark Pulse/Nasty Plot. Shame it doesn't get Knock Off.
- Golurk might acually be good since it gains Shadow Ball and can abuse No Guard Dynamicpunch.
- Nidoking has Earth Power, Poison Jab, Focus Blast, and Rock Slide to go fully physical.
- Scizor loses only Knock Off and gains HP Rock or Fighting.
- Keldeo gains priority.
lolNidoking's learnset said:Nidoking learns Sludge Wave.
Well, that kind of mistake was bound to happen.