Chinchou [QC 1/3]

[-Sparkbeat-]

Overview
########

• Fantastic typing, immune to Electric and only weak to Grass and Ground
• Volt Switch makes it a great pivot
• Massive HP Stat
• Decent Speed
• Wide variety of sets
• Great coverage
• Many support options
• Must choose between bulk in Eviolite or recover in Berry Juice
• Low defenses without Eviolite
• Weak to the STAB of the most common Pokemon in the tier, Gligar

Bulky Attacker
########
name: Bulky Attacker
move 1: Hydro Pump / Scald
move 2: Volt Switch
move 3: Heal Bell / Soak / Thunder Wave
move 4: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Grass
ability: Volt Absorb
item: Berry Juice / Eviolite
evs: 76 HP / 212 Def / 152 SpA / 60 Spe
nature: Bold

Moves
========

• Hydro Pump is the strongest STAB move
• Scald can be used if you prefer 100% accuracy and a burn chance
• Volt Switch grabs momentum and provides an electric STAB
• Thunderbolt can be used if you prefer a more powerful STAB
• Heal Bell allows Chinchou to take advantage of switches and bulk to cure its team of statuses
• Soak can be used to force counters to switch out in fear of a STAB Electric attack. It also removes their STAB
  
• Thunder Wave cripples offensive switch-ins such as Misdreavus and is a nice move for slower offensive teams
• Ice Beam hits Grass and Dragon types
• Hidden Power Grass lures in and hits other Chinchou hard
• Heal Bell is incompatible with Soak, so use the combinations of Heal Bell + Ice Beam and Soak + Hidden Power Grass are recommended
• Thunderbolt can be used along with Volt Switch if you choose to run Soak should you want more power and not want to switch out, but using it leaves you unable to touch opposing Chinchou

Set Details
========

• The EV spread allows Chinchou to handle Flying types such as Murkrow and Fletchling better while maintaining power
• Volt Absorb grants it an Electric immunity and unreliable recovery
• Berry Juice allows Chinchou to take some damage, heal it off, and come back swinging
• Eviolite is an option if you'd rather have more bulk in the first place
• Modest boosts Chinchou's power

Usage Tips
========

• If you aren't sure what will switch in, Volt Switch is great
• Luring in Grass types, Ground types, and other Chinchou with the threat of Volt Switch can net surprise KO's with Ice Beam, Hydro Pump, or Hidden Power Grass, respectively, or allow you to go into a counter with Volt Switch
• Use the amount of switch in opportunities Chinchou gets and the amount of switches it forces to remove your team of statuses with Heal Bell
• Great at bluffing a Scarf before Berry Juice activates

Team Options
========

• Other Pokemon with U-turn and Volt Switch that can handle Chinchou's Grass type counters, like Gligar and Vullaby
• Pokemon that can handle bulky Normal types, like Mienfoo
• Pokemon that can beat Spritzee, like Pawniard
• Pokemon that can beat Misdreavus, like Porygon
• Pokemon that can take Ground and Grass type attacks, like Murkrow
• Sweepers that appreciate a cleric, such as Moxie Scraggy, Misdreavus, and Pawniard
• Spritzee who can pass Chinchou wishes
• Chinchou can lure in many Pokemon that Meditite can KO or force out, as well as give it a safe switch in

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Volt Switch
move 2: Hydro Pump / Scald
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Thunderbolt
ability: Volt Absorb
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 52 Def / 232 SpA / 224 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========

• Volt Switch is gives you momentum and is an easily spammable STAB
• Hydro Pump hits hard as your other STAB, coverage Fire types and Ground types, who are immune to Volt Switch and Thunderbolt
• Scald can be used if you're willing to give up power for accuracy and a burn chance
• Ice Beam rounds out the coverage by hitting Grass types and the lesser seen Dragon types
• Thunderbolt is mainly filler, but provides a more powerful Electric and 100% accurate STAB for late game cleaning

Set Details
========

• EV's give maximum power and Speed, with an extra point in Defense
• Volt Absorb grant Chinchou a very useful immunity to Electric type moves, granting it more switch-ins
• Choice Scarf gives Chinchou a boost to its speed, letting it outspeed and OHKO threats like Gligar and Drilbur
• Modest gives him as much power as possible, which is needed because of Chinchou's mediocre Special Attack

Usage Tips
========

• Frail thanks to the lack of Eviolite and Berry Juice ; won't want to switch in much
• Can work as an effective surprise counter to common leads like Gligar
• Luring in Ground and Grass types with the threat of Volt Switch can allow Chinchou to dent these Pokemon with its other STAB or Ice Beam, or Volt Switch into a teammate that can handle these Pokemon

Team Options
========

• Other Pokemon with U-turn or Volt Switch, such as Larvesta who can take on physical attackers that give Chinchou trouble
• Gligar and Vullaby, who can get rid of hazards for Chinchou, take Ground attacks aimed at it, and form a Voltturn core
• Fighting types like Mienfoo who enjoy having Gligar gone

RestTalk
########
name: RestTalk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Scald
move 4: Heal Bell / Volt Switch / Discharge
ability: Volt Absorb
item: Eviolite
evs: 76 HP / 132 Def / 228 SpD / 60 Spe
nature: Bold

Moves
========

• Rest gives Chinchou a way to recover health, something all its other sets lack
• Sleep Talk lets you keep attacking or supporting while asleep
• Heal Bell can wake you up so you can Rest again or guarantee you will use an attacking move next turn
• Volt Switch can be used for coverage, and momentum. Unlike last generation, the sleep counter doesn't reset upon switching, making this a viable option
• Discharge can be used if you don't want to switch out
• Scald is your primary STAB that also has a nice burn chance

Set Details
========

• The EV's are put into Chinchou's bulk, making it harder to remove thanks to having a recovery option
• Volt Absorb grants Chinchou an immunity and another way to recover health
• Eviolite boosts its bulk even further
• Bold helps make up for Chinchou's lower defense stat

Usage Tips
========

• Don't be afraid to switch out after Resting thanks to the new sleep mechanics
• Think ahead about your opponent's attack. If they've worn you down to where they can knock you into critical range on the next turn, you're usually better of using Rest than attempting to KO them.
• Great status absorber

Team Options
========

• Pokemon that appreciate a switch in to Murkrow, like Meditite
• Pokemon that can take on Grass types that wall Chinchou, like Ponyta
• Flying types, like Gligar who can also beat Timburr and Croagunk
• Pokemon that appreciate a Cleric

Other Options
########

• Agility can make Chinchou a sweeper, but it is difficult to set-up and lacks the power needed to sweep
• Parafusion can be ran, though Murkrow does this better
• Chinchou can be a solid Rain Dance setter, and it can abuse Thunder and boosted Hydro Pumps with it up
• Toxic can be used to cripple Porygon and Munchlax not running Rest
• Hidden Power Fire can be used to hit Ferroseed and Snover for 4x damage

Checks & Counters
########

• Munchlax
• Porygon
• Snover
• Ferroseed
• Foongus
• Lileep
• Misdreavus
• Timburr
• Spritzee
• Croagunk
• Helioptile
• Other Chinchou with Hidden Power Grass
• Gligar and Drilbur can check with Ground moves
• Strong physical attackers can prey on Chinchou's lower defense

 

[Darkamber8828]

No mention of Soak :c

Of the counters listed, Soak + Volt Switch or Thunderbolt lets Chinchou grab momentum and / or suck huge chunks of health out of Munchlax, non-Scarf Snover, Foongus, Lileep, Timburr, and Spritzee. Porygon and Chinchou are still immune and Missy is still faster, but that's a pretty significant chunk of Chinchou's counters right there. Also Ferroseed, which you don't have listed.

Besides, it's cool!

 

[DTC]

Soak definitely deserves its own set, although probably the last set on the analysis. Like Darkamber said, it's a great momentum grabber that also messes up a lot of standard Chinchou's checks.

Your sets should like this:

Scarfed Sushi (not SET NAME)
########
name: Scarfed Sushi
move 1: Volt Switch
move 2: Hydro Pump / Scald / Surf
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Thunderbolt
ability: Volt Absorb
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 52 Def / 232 SpA / 224 Spe
nature: Modest

Also, the names of the sets should be something like "Choice Scarf", "RestTalk", "Bulky Attacker" and "Agility". "Pet" names are not allowed unless that name is used particularly often to refer to that set, e.g "Crumbler" on Aegislash.

I'll probably look at this more later once you add a Soak set.

 

[Darkamber8828]

I dunno if it needs its own set. I'd just slash it before Ice Beam on the Stuffed Sushi set. Chinchou outspeeds every relevant Grass and Dragon-type in the tier except Scarf Snover, who doesn't take anything from Ice Beam anyway. This means you can Soak on the switch and Volt Switch out. Could probably move HP Grass to OO, since it's basically only there for other Chinchou.

 

[Rowan]

I actually beg to differ with Soak earning its own set, it can easily be slashed over Heal Bell or Ice Beam in the Berry Juice/Eviolite set.

e: NINJA'd

e2:

SCARF:
I think HP Grass and HP Fire deserve mentions (not slashes though) on the scarf set. Grass hits incoming Chinchou and Fire hits Ferroseed (who will probably gain more popularity with Tangela gone.
On that set, is scald and surf really worth a mention? Maybe surf if you really want accuracy, but you want to be able to kill things, not burn them.
On team options mention that larvesta can beat grass types as well - it's obvious but it's the reason why it forms such a fantastic volttun core with it.
Mienfoo also deserves a mention because it beats Porygon and Munchlax who Chinchou hate - again a great volttun partner. (also has knock off which makes hydro pretty threatening)
Vullaby gets knock off which is cool - walls grass types. gets voltturn.


RESTALK:
The ResTalk set should probably be moved down in set order since the metagame is kinda fast paced RN and it's very easily forced out.
I'd put Scald as move 3, and the others on move 4: minor but i think scald is a necessity.
I'd mention how it's probably the best MixKrow counter in the game now that it always runs IcyWind>HP Grass.
Maybe mention Pokemon that can beat opposing Chinchou (like grass types) for the team options. Also mention how Gligar can take on Timburr/Croagunk who do a pretty good job of walling that set, not caring about Scald burns and knocking it off. Vullaby beats grass types.


BERRY JUICE: EVIOLITE
personally I wouldn't slash Thunderbolt with Volt Switch, I think Volt Switch is really necessary. As people have said Soak deserves a slash as well. I'd do:
-water STAB
-volt switch
-Soak / ice beam / hidden power grass
-Heal Bell / Thunderbolt

with again a mention of HP Fire in the set comments as an option to hit ferroseed.

does eviolite make chinchou survive any specific hits? most of the time i'd just run berry juice.

in usage tips, mention that it can sometimes bluff a scarf with voltswitch.

In team options, i'd just mention misdreavus/swirlix instead of saying ghosts/fairies since they're the only 2 you're worried about (i suppose those new grass/ghosts, but they're already mentioned with grass types). Also, knock off support is cool as it makes hydro pump hit much harder on stuff like spritzee (mienfoo again <-- pretty much the perfect partner). Vullaby is also cool. for KO+uturn.
Wish support from spritzee? chinchou can switch into fire types that wall it so can often get a chance to recover.

Agility:
Is this really any good? it has no way to boost its attack and even with a Life Orb, 16 Sp.Atk isn't that great ~ I'll leave it to QC to decide.

OO:
you have none? TWave, Toxic (for porygons and non resttalk munchlax), rain dance setter, charge beam are the only ones i can think of.
o, and water absorb but it already resists water so lol.

C&C
-most will need to be elaborated but thats pretty self-explanotary.
-alongside lileep, snover and foongus, just mention grass types in general, though mention that most are slower than it so they dislike soak. (does lileep get affected by soak, idek)
-diglett if it can manage to get in on volt switch will completely remove it - play careful with it around.

 

[DTC]

actually yea that works too; the ev spread for bulky attacker is the same for what you use with soak so they are functionally similar

 

[Darkamber8828]

Oh yeah!

Soaked 236 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Eviolite Chinchou: 16-20 (66.6 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
232+ SpA Chinchou Thunderbolt vs. Soaked 0 HP / 0 SpD Gligar: 24-30 (104.3 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

shaky check got even shakier :> (also yeah Drilbur still OHKOs but w/e)

 

[-Sparkbeat-]

Added Soak as a slash before HP Grass because what DTC said in his last post. Added Other Options because it completely slipped my mind (Working on this sick so I'm a little out of it x_x). Added Ferroseed to the counter list.

 

[blarajan]

I am almost pretty positive Agility Chinchou is going to be useless. I need some serious logs before I let that be a spread this gen.

I would also make Bulky Attacker the first set on the analysis--its place as an amazing pivot for offensive and defensive teams that checks a ton of shit is much more useful than Scarf / RestTalk this gen. Likewise, I would make this the primary spread:

76 HP / 212 Def / 152 SpA / 60 Spe Bold. It needs the added Defense to better handle Murkrow, especially with Berry Juice. It also obtains an Eviolite number in Defense (14) if you opt for that route.

Fuck "Hydro Pump / Surf / Scald" on Bulky Attacker. Remove Surf. Likewise, I would probably slash Thunder Wave with Heal Bell, as some teams prefer paralyzing things than restoring status. Finally, fuck Thunderbolt...the whole purpose of this set is Volt Switch. Move that to AC. This is how I would make it:

SET NAME
########
name: Bulky Attacker
move 1: Hydro Pump / Scald
move 2: Volt Switch
move 3: Heal Bell / Thunder Wave
move 4: Ice Beam / Soak / Hidden Power Grass
ability: Volt Absorb
item: Berry Juice / Eviolite
evs: 76 HP / 212 Def / 152 SpA / 60 Spe
nature: Bold

Even with this, I am hesitant as hell about all of these slashes. This is not a QC check just yet as I did not look at the other sets, but this one struck me as needing help.

 

[Kavatika]

In addition to those set changes, the teammates section for the bulky attacker set needs some work. Although Porygon handles Misdreavus, it does very little for it's other counters. Mienfoo and Meditite should be emphasized as good partners for Chinchou, both handling bulky special walls and with HP Ice or Ice Punch can lure in and KO Gligar, which this set has some trouble with. These Pokemon also appreciate the removal of Flying-types and Slowpoke, etc.

Give some examples of teammates that appreciate cleric support, such as Pawniard (Will-O-Wisp) or Misdreavus (Thunder Wave). Pawniard has some trouble with Fairies, but Chinchou can help by hitting them on the switch-in. Misdreavus can also offer Will-Wisp support and it's TrickSpecs set can cripple a large amount of Chinchou's counters.

Also I'm not completely sold on HP Grass, I'm not QC but I don't think it hits much outside of other Chinchou. Maybe just a mention on the Scarf and Bulky Attacker set and not a slash?

EDIT: Also add Larvesta in, since it removes grass-types and Chinchou removes flying-types and water-types, and forms an amazing VoltTurn core.

Stress on the Scarf set that it should be used on teams that need a speedy offensive Flying check, and how badly it ruins Gligar if played smartly.

 

[-Sparkbeat-]

Put in your changes Blara, mentioned Pawniard and Misdreavus as Pokemon that like having a cleric, and added Meditite to team options for the bulky set. For the Agility spread, I was kinda of edge about whether to include it or not, so I'll remove it for now. I could probably remove the HP grass slash on all the sets and mention it in Other Options if you think that would be better.

 

[Goddess Briyella]

• Please don't mention Surf anywhere in this analysis. It is practically irrelevant when both Scald and Hydro Pump exist.

• Soak is fine as it is in the first set. When mentioning Soak, you should also highlight the fact that not only does it make the foe Water-type and thus vulnerable to Chinchou's STAB Electric-type moves, but it also basically removes all their STAB bonuses that the foe is used to having automatically (unless the incoming foe is Water-type, but that would be a dumb switch in, and Chinchou resists Water anyway). Add emphasis to the fact that Chinchou's use of Soak is especially awesome since it also has STAB Electric-type attacks to punish basically any switch-in with it. Kavatika's example of using Soak to counter Gligar is incredible and it would do well to mention scenarios such as these in the writeup when explaining why Soak is so useful on Chinchou.

• Add Dazzling Gleam to Other Options; it's criminal not to give it at least a light mention.

• Helioptile deserves a special mention in Checks & Counters, as it turns Water-type attacks into health with its Dry Skin ability and also resists Electric and is immune to paralysis. Opposing Chinchou presents a similar problem and can often create a bit of a standoff. While uncommon, Water Absorb Wooper and Dragon Dance Barboach can give Chinchou major problems if it isn't running HP Grass.

Everything else looks pretty good. Make these changes and that's QC 1/3

 

[DTC]

• Add Dazzling Gleam to Other Options; it's criminal not to give it at least a light mention.

What does Dazzling Gleam hit that the other moves don't?

 

[Goddess Briyella]

What does Dazzling Gleam hit that the other moves don't?

It gets a super effective hit on Dark- and Fighting-types, but isn't quite important enough to be part of a recommended set, which is why it is relegated to Other Options, where niche things end up along with explanations as to why the moves in the given sets are generally better options. It gets an easy OHKO on Scraggy if nothing else, something that a lot of mons can't do since HP Fairy doesn't exist.

 

[DTC]

It gets a super effective hit on Dark- and Fighting-types, but isn't quite important enough to be part of a recommended set, which is why it is relegated to Other Options, where niche things end up along with explanations as to why the moves in the given sets are generally better options. It gets an easy OHKO on Scraggy if nothing else, something that a lot of mons can't do since HP Fairy doesn't exist.

Every Pokemon that is hit super effectively with Dazzling Gleam is hit harder by either Hydro Pump or Volt Switch, besides Scraggy. Murkrow and Croagunk are hit harder by Volt Switch; Pawniard is hit harder by both; Mienfoo, Meditite, Riolu and Timburr are hit harder by Hydro Pump, and besides Timburr, none of those would want to risk getting burned. As for Dragon-types, besides Tyrunt (who takes more from Hydro), they are pretty rare, and hit harder by Ice Beam anyways, or won't appreciate a burn. Dazzling Gleam would essentially be only for Scraggy and Timburr, and both of those aren't even Chinchou's premier checks (although Timburr does pretty well if Chinchou is using Scald). A pretty redundant option compounded by Chinchou's 4MSS makes it a move you would never ever consider.

I'm only being so picky about what goes in OO because with the new analysis system, there was a push towards changing OO from "listing every move under the sun that could potentially be viable or looks like it may be viable" to "somewhat viable alternatives". Dazzling Gleam fits the first criteria, in my opinion, because while it may look viable, it doesn't really do anything; viable alternatives include moves that can beat a common counter, support moves dependent on the team, and other things like that.


Anyways, I have a few suggestions of my own after looking at this analysis closer:

• When you mention Volt Switch makes Chinchou a great pivot, make a note that the Ground-types that would switch in to block Volt Switch are deterred from switching in because of Chinchou's Water STAB. You've touched upon this in Usage Tips which is nice.
• However, I have an issue with the Usage Tips - you don't really need to bother to predict the switchin for Grass-type Pokemon as long as you have a teammate that can beat them (mention Volt Switching into a teammate that can beat Grass-type Pokemon, btw), as Volt Switch gives you a free switchin. Also, the first Usage Tip should say you hit predicted Ground-types with your water STAB, not Hidden Power Grass.
• Your C&C section could go a bit more indepth. Make notes such as how Croagunk gets healed by Water-type attacks and thus can never get burned; Timburr likes Scald burns; Gligar and Drilbur can stop Chinchou from Volt Switching but should be weary of Chinchou's Water-type STAB, and other notes similar to the ones I mentioned that are relevant to the Pokemon's ability to counter Chinchou.

I can tell this analysis is going to look great once you fix up some stuff, so keep up the good work. :>

 

[-Sparkbeat-]

Put in your changes Bri. For Dazzling Gleam, since right now it's one and one, I'll wait for some more people to state their opinion on whether it should go in OO or not. As for the C&C section, I'll definitely be going more in-depth on how the checks and counters work in the write up. Thanks for the fixes everyone!

 

[Kavatika]

Make sure to note that Soak, a gen 6 only egg move, is incompatible with heal bell, a bw2 tutor move.

edit: also note that twave cripples missy switch-ins

 

[blarajan]

OH YEAH THAT'S WHAT IT WAS

SLASH SOAK WITH HEAL BELL, NOT WITH THE NEXT ATTACKING MOVE.

MAKE IT

Bulky Attacker
########
name: Bulky Attacker
move 1: Hydro Pump / Scald
move 2: Volt Switch
move 3: Heal Bell / Soak / Thunder Wave
move 4: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Grass
ability: Volt Absorb
item: Berry Juice / Eviolite
evs: 76 HP / 212 Def / 152 SpA / 60 Spe
nature: Bold

:)

 

[-Sparkbeat-]

Both changes added

 

[Darkamber8828]

I think Thunderbolt deserves a slash in the last slot. If you're running Soak, what are you hitting with Ice Beam that you couldn't hit with Soak? Every Grass-type and Dragon-type is slower than you, except Chlorophyll sweepers in the sun, and Scarf Snover, who doesn't care about Ice Beam. Drilbur and Gligar both get wrecked by Hydro Pump on the switch. Having both Thunderbolt and Volt Switch lets you choose whether to abuse your momentum or stay in to 2HKO all the bulky stuff that used to wall you. Coverage isn't that important when Soak lets you crush everything.

 

[blarajan]

Heal Bell goes with Ice Beam and Soak goes with HP Grass (for opposing Chinchou). AC mention Thunderbolt cause it's honestly kind of meh, but give it a strong mention. I just don't like getting fucked by Chinchou if I can avoid it.

 

[-Sparkbeat-]

Mentioned the pairing of Heal Bell + Ice Beam and Soak + HP Grass, and mentioned Thunderbolt as an option if using Soak.

 

[Darkamber8828]

• Volt Switch grabs momentum and provides an electric STAB
  Thunderbolt can be used if you prefer a more powerful STAB
  Thunderbolt can be used with Soak if you want more power and don't want to switch out, but leaves you unable to touch opposing Chinchou

*Thunderbolt and Volt Switch can be used in tandem

 

[Rowan]

I'm gonna QC this cos it's been ded ;-; Lunatic Lies

first off, remove all mentions of Gligar etc...

Bulky Attacker:
set details:
"Modest boosts Chinchou's power" - set says Bold

usage tips:
"Great at bluffing a Scarf before Berry Juice activates" - scarf chou isn't common anymore so this point needn't be said.

Choice Scarf (remove gligar mentions):
moves:
Remove scald. on scarf you want to be able to revenge better with power.

usage tips:
now that gligar is gone I'd mention some things scarf can take on that it can't usually. It actually takes on Murkrow worse, due to being weaker to sucker punch, but it can now beat Drilbur, as well as revenging Mienfoo, +1 (weakened) Scraggy, does 56.5 - 69.5% to Misdreavus, outspeeds +2 tirtouga (revenges if sturdy is broken).

RestTalk:
for starters, now that Gligar is banned, move resttalk to the second set and put choice scarf as the third. Scarf just isn't as useful anymore.

set details:
maybe mention how much it takes from LO Murkrow's Brave Bird, this is very important and should be stressed. It's probably the best LO Krow switch in.

team options:
again, remove gligar blah blah

Other options:
toxic can be used to cripple Lileep too, which is cool.
Dazzling Gleam on the scarf set means Chou is a reliable Scraggy check, also can be used as a lure as Scraggy likes to set up on chinchou.

C&C:
just make the format better here. i.e., group grass-types together, group bulky normals together, group things that can set up on it together (missy, scraggy)


do all this then 2/3

 

[Mowtom]

Modest is mentioned in the set details for the bulky attacker set, but the set itself says Bold, which isn't mentioned in the details. Could someone please explain?