OU Chansey

[Finchinator]

not sure if chansey has been an OU staple forever, maybe just have the bit about eviolite, but i'll leave it up to others about this one

she is immune to ghost, not resistant - also note chansey's weakness to fighting, imo

i think heal bell is superior to aromatherapy in competitive singles fsr, but i forget what it is rn

p much echo nedor in regards to everything first set related

if you're running wish, you need protect imo

also, i think having 4 slashes on the last move is a bit sloppy - perhaps drop SR but mention it in set comments b/c wish + SR is a bit much for one pokemon, but it can viably work if need be and it can easily be slipped into the set comments

you need to add strong fighting moves (especially of the physical variety) to the C&C w/ examples such as Keldeo, Pheromosa, Buzzwole, etc. b/c they're one of the ways of breaking through it outright

otherwise, think this is alright, but can't give 3/3 until it's written up i think (!?) and would like to get another set of eyes on it n_n

 

[Lemonade]

Skellies with full sentence bullets for rn because faster

 

[NVT_Sart]

not sure if chansey has been an OU staple forever, maybe just have the bit about eviolite, but i'll leave it up to others about this one

she is immune to ghost, not resistant - also note chansey's weakness to fighting, imo

i think heal bell is superior to aromatherapy in competitive singles fsr, but i forget what it is rn

p much echo nedor in regards to everything first set related

if you're running wish, you need protect imo

also, i think having 4 slashes on the last move is a bit sloppy - perhaps drop SR but mention it in set comments b/c wish + SR is a bit much for one pokemon, but it can viably work if need be and it can easily be slipped into the set comments

you need to add strong fighting moves (especially of the physical variety) to the C&C w/ examples such as Keldeo, Pheromosa, Buzzwole, etc. b/c they're one of the ways of breaking through it outright

otherwise, think this is alright, but can't give 3/3 until it's written up i think (!?) and would like to get another set of eyes on it n_n

She was and is an auto-include in every team in gen1, that's why I made that introduction :P Ican change it to something like "[...] and OU staple in every gen", or leave it out completely if you guys want to.

I had a paragraph about heal bell vs aromatherapy in the original post, but edited it out after p2 told me the difference is too small to justify it being on the analysis, it's more of a finetuning thing later. tl;dr is: Aromatherapy can't be imprisoned, Heal Bell doesn't tell your opponent if you run Wish or not.

Edited in every other point though. I will now convert every bullet to a full sentence as Lemonade suggested, and then switch th title to 3/3 + 0/1

Thanks already Finchinator !

 

[boltsandbombers]

Re: "chansey has been an ou staple"
Analyses are meant to be time sensitive in the sense that you shouldn't write talking about the mon as a whole but rather in the specific metagame, in this case gen 7 ou

 

[NVT_Sart]

Re: "chansey has been an ou staple"
Analyses are meant to be time sensitive in the sense that you shouldn't write talking about the mon as a whole but rather in the specific metagame, in this case gen 7 ou

Edited and thank you!

 

[Finchinator]

Hootie - Today at 12:03 PM
Finch saw your post in the Chansey thread, you can count your post as the third check since writeups aren't being done right now.

oops make my last post 3/3 too then

 

[NVT_Sart]

Hootie - Today at 12:03 PM
Finch saw your post in the Chansey thread, you can count your post as the third check since writeups aren't being done right now.

oops make my last post 3/3 too then
255, 255, 255,

Done and thank you once again! :)

Also made sure every bullet is a full sentence and ends with a period, as well as editing out typos Lemonade

Changed title to 3/3 + 0/1

 

[Lemonade]

You don't want "With the introduction of Eviolite Chansey has been able to outclass her evolution Blissey in her current role as a special wall." in general. This is more "flavor" and does not offer useful information. Compare this to your next line: "In gen 7 she functions not only as a premium special wall, but can also act as hazard setter, cleric, wish passer, is able to spread status and act as an emergency check for mixed attackers." If someone is looking to build a team (common for people reading analyses), this line offers much more relevant / interesting information.

 

[NVT_Sart]

You don't want "With the introduction of Eviolite Chansey has been able to outclass her evolution Blissey in her current role as a special wall." in general. This is more "flavor" and does not offer useful information. Compare this to your next line: "In gen 7 she functions not only as a premium special wall, but can also act as hazard setter, cleric, wish passer, is able to spread status and act as an emergency check for mixed attackers." If someone is looking to build a team (common for people reading analyses), this line offers much more relevant / interesting information.

I didn't include that first, but if you read p2 's QC post on page 1, he asked me to add it

 

[Lemonade]

I didn't include that first, but if you read p2 's QC post on page 1, he asked me to add it

My post still applies to what you had originally.

- Chansey has been an OU staple since her introduction

should clarify that its eviolites introduction that made chansey good and knocked blissey down from being the best special wall in the game

 

[NVT_Sart]

My post still applies to what you had originally.

That was changed already after Finchinator 's QC :o

 

[Lemonade]

It doesn't matter what exactly the content of the first line is. You should start the overview with "interesting" information to grab the reader's attention, where I take "interesting" to mean stuff relevant to deciding whether or not to add Chansey to your team. Who cares if Chansey has been an OU staple? This is a new generation--Pokemon that were good last gen aren't automatically good in a new one. Similarly, what does mentioning Blissey add? Someone reading the analysis wants to see what Chansey can do for their team.

That's why

In gen 7 she functions not only as a premium special wall (thanks to great stats and Eviolite), but can also act as hazard setter, cleric, wish passer, is able to spread status and act as an emergency check for mixed attackers.

is much more useful information. If it is first, it will help someone decide if they want to continue reading the analysis. If you must mention Eviolite, you can add the parentheses.

 

[NVT_Sart]

It doesn't matter what exactly the content of the first line is. You should start the overview with "interesting" information to grab the reader's attention, where I take "interesting" to mean stuff relevant to deciding whether or not to add Chansey to your team. Who cares if Chansey has been an OU staple? This is a new generation--Pokemon that were good last gen aren't automatically good in a new one. Similarly, what does mentioning Blissey add? Someone reading the analysis wants to see what Chansey can do for their team.

That's why

is much more useful information. If you must mention Eviolite, you can add the parentheses.

Fair point. Althought I slightly disagree on the Blissey part, because new/unexperienced players might look at a Chansey analysis and ask themselves "why use a NFE Pokemon?". I think what I'll do is change the first line to what you suggested, but add the part about Blissey in the bracket. Deal?

Edit: Done.

 

[P Squared]

GP 1/1, well written even for a non-native English speaker :)

I have some tips for you if you plan on writing more analyses though:

- you have to follow the analysis format here exactly. just copy paste from this post, don't retype it yourself; i had to fix a lot of your formatting
- in analyses we don't use gendered pronouns for Pokemon, even if they're all one gender like Chansey
- the majority of people have trouble with this one, but the term win condition is probably not what you're using it as, check this post by user Lemonade

Hide

Why wincon / win condition and not sweeper? This isn't a battle commentary where you are explaining how to create a specific situation for Bisharp to sweep (ex weakening check to x% so Bisharp KOes them without taking damage and thus can survive another attack and KO that mon etc.). Basically what I'm getting at is calling a Pokemon itself a "win condition" is a misuse of the word "condition", and I know you guys are considering your position in the match or all the factors involved in actually winning with the given Pokemon, but newer players tend to pick up this terminology without considering "winning" (ie using it interchangeably with sweeper).

(Examples: Fire Emblem, FF Tactics victory conditions: defeat all enemies, defeat the leader, survive for x turns--all these are based on the state of the game. YGO: reducing opp to 0 LP, having Exodia in your hand, drawing any number of cards that enables you to get Magical Scientist and Catapult Turtle out on the first turn, etc. Basically any game that has defined "winning").

Edit: Here's something else I thought of about why you should care regarding new players and such. Since we're all competitive players, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say we would rather have good discussion. So let's say there's a game on stours and peeps are in the lobby. Someone says "What's player X's wincon?" From a rando, would you rather hear "Clefable because it has good defense and can set up Calm Mind" or "Clefable completely wrecks this team cuz all X needs to do is get Pokemon A down to 60% and it can't stop Clef anymore". Definitely the second right? It shows they have at least grasped the basics of each team, and this type of thinking gives them a tool to improve on their own--good for competitive environment.

Problem is right now new players are going to answer the first because that is the most prevalent way people use "wincon". Bad cuz it offers nothing to the battle discussion. ex from OU forum
A new player reading this will probably say "Talonflame cuz Bulk Up boosts its attack and defense" instead of "Talonflame cuz if it gets a Bulk Up vs Clef lategame, nothing can stop it", when talking about an actual match.

Ideally people start only using "wincon" in regards to battles, so that when anyone hears the term, they also hear how people assess both sides (teams and position) in regards to actually winning.

- MOST importantly, you should implement GP checks by quoting the post (clicking Reply on my post), removing all of the red text, addressing and then removing the green text, and then deformatting the blue text (highlight and click the Tx button at the top left of the post window, to the left of bold, italics, underline, etc). this is the quickest and most accurate way

let me know if you have any questions!

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[OVERVIEW]

• In gen 7 Chansey not only functions not only as a premium special wall (outclassing its evolution Blissey thanks to Eviolite), but can also act as an entry hazard setter, cleric, and Wish passer, as well as is able to spread status and act as an emergency check for to mixed attackers. (this still feels like a lot all at once, I think it would be more efficient to say something like "Chansey not only functions as a premium special wall (outclassing its evolution Blissey thanks to Eviolite) but also can set entry hazards, act as a cleric, pass Wishes, spread status, and be an emergency check to mixed attackers." is this okay with you?)
• Since role compression is immensely important, having a Pokemon that does so many things in one slot is a godsend.
• Her abyssmal Its abysmal offensive stats will still leave her being it passive, which is why Chansey is mostly used on stall teams.
• Despite its qualities, its typing is suboptimal as for a wall, giving it only one immunity against Ghost Types, no resistances, and a weakness to commong Fighting moves.
• It is also very vulnerable to her its Eviolite being Knocked Off, and it can be both Taunt and setup bait.

[SET]
name: Utility
move 1: Soft-Boiled
move 2: Seismic Toss
move 3: Stealth Rock / Toxic / Thunder Wave
move 4: Aromatherapy
item: Eviolite
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Bold
evs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Soft-Boiled is its most reliable recovery, and unlike similar moves, such as Morning Sun, it is not affected by weather.
• Seismic Toss is used over other offensive moves because it needs no investments to do acceptable damage (for a wall).
• Stealth Rock is a great asset because Chansey finds a lot of opportunities to set them it up, which is very important for the stall teams it finds herself on.
• Toxic is also viable if you already have a dedicated Stealth Rock setter rocker, and it can wear down defensive Pokemon, as well as limit the turns offensive Pokemon can stay in against Chansey.
• Thunder Wave is another status option over Toxic to cripple fast and hard-hitting physical attackers that often switch into Chansey. This is especially useful if you are using an offensive sweeper on your team, since the chance of it being revenge killed by those Pokemon decreases drastically.
• Aromatherapy enables Chansey to act as a cleric on top of other roles, clearing every status condition on your team all at once.

Set Details
========

• The EVs are an optimized spread, since even without the common 252 SpD, the threats Chansey is supposed to handle can't 2HKO it.
• The additional physical bulk helps against Pursuit trapping, mixed attackers, physical coverage and, in a pinch, weaker physical attackers.
• 244 HP EVs are used over 252 because the lack of Leftovers makes opting for a breakpoint (explain this) unnecessary, and it reduces residual damage. The value is also not divisible by 8 or 16, so there is no difference in residual damage compared to 248 HP EVs.
• Natural Cure is used to sponge status and get rid of it by simply switching out again.
• Eviolite helps Chansey round out both its physical and special bulk, allowing it to take many hits it otherwise couldn't.
• The old 4 HP / 252 SpD EV spread is still an option if you want Chansey to be untouchable by special attacks on the special side (:( i know this doesn't sound as good but we have to remove "side" since physical / special are not on a spectrum), but it is generally not advised for the reasons mentioned above.

Usage Tips
=========

• Chansey's primary roles are that of a special wall and status sponge, so switch it into special attackers or status moves.
• It can be used as an emergency check for mixed attackers, or if the situation is dire enough, physical attackers too.
• Depending on the moveset move choices, it can also act as a cleric (healing your team from status), hazard setter, or status spreader.
• Always be on the lookout for potential Knock Off users. Chansey should avoid losing its Eviolite at all costs, since its bulk massively depends on it being intact.
• In addition to looking out for Knock Off users, you should try Try to keep Chansey as healthy as possible throughout the game. Since it has no passive recovery and is forced to use a turn with a bad speed stat to heal up, often after the foe moves due to Chansey's bad Speed, switching it in weakened could suddenly turn Pokemon that it normally walls into potent threats.

Team Options
===========

• This set is almost exclusively used on stall and defensive teams.
• Hazard control from Pokemon like Mega Sableye, Skarmory, Zapdos, and Mantine, etc. is needed because stall teams naturally switch a lot.
• Skarmory should be highlighted because it is most commonly a physical wall, complementing Chansey nicely. It is also able to either run either Stealth Rock to free up a slot for Chansey on her, or Spikes for more entry hazards.
• Other physical walls like Toxapex make for equally good teammates.
• Unaware users like Clefable and Quagsire are a necessity, since Chansey's passivity and physical frailty weakness on the physical side will often result in free turns for the opponent, which they can use to set up.
• Offensive sweepers, such as a bulky Coil Zygarde-50%, can close the game for your team.
• Trappers like Dugtrio and Choice Band Weavile can be added to both act as a win condition or get rid of Pokemon that threaten the rest of your team.

[SET]
name: Wish Passer
move 1: Wish
move 2: Protect / Soft-Boiled
move 3: Seismic Toss
move 4: Heal Bell / Toxic / Thunder Wave
item: Eviolite
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Bold
evs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Wish is used to be able to restores the HP of Chansey or injured teammates and results in a massive healing due to its sky-high HP stat.
• Protect is great in combination with Wish, allowing you to safely heal Chansey back up, and it can also be used to scout for moves or abuse Choice-locked Pokemon. Additionally, it is a good way of punishing luring physical attackers like Pheromosa, who which will try to use High Jump Kick on you, resulting in the move failing and take them taking massive recoil damage, before after which you can switch into an actual check to them again.
• Soft-Boiled is still an option, especially because it only takes one turn to heal you, compared to the two of Wish + Protect, and can also help if you need to PP stall something like Porygon-Z with using Z-Conversion to change into a Ghost-type.
• Heal Bell is great and almost mandatory in every stall team, since it cures your whole team of status conditions that could either cripple them or wear them down a lot faster than you'd like it to happen.
• If you already have a cleric on your team, Chansey is also very good at abusing Toxic to wear down defensive Pokemon or switch-ins, especially if it is coupled with Protect to get additional turns of Toxic damage in.
• Since this set is very restricted due to the additional moveslot taken by Wish, Stealth Rock is not as viable as it would be on the utility set, but Chansey can still use it if your team needs a rocks setter.
• Thunder Wave is once again useful if you want to cripple the physical attackers that are common switch-ins to Chansey.

Set Details
=========

• The given spread enables you Chansey to take on physical hits or attempts to Pursuit trap it you a lot better than a 4 HP / 252 SpD spread could, while still having enough special bulk to not get 2HKOed by the Pokemon it Chansey is supposed to check.
• The HP EVs are optimized to reduce residual damage from weather, hazards, and or status conditions, while not being limited by a Leftovers breakpoint (explain what this is).
• An additional benefit of the spread on this set is the fact that your Chansey's massive HP stat also results in even bigger Wishes to be passed to its your teammates, (RC) healing pretty much every possible teammate back to full HP.

Usage Tips
=========

• Chansey is a premium special wall and should therefore be switched into special attackers that whose attacks it can easily tank, which allows you to and then proceed to use by using status moves, passing Wishes to injured teammates, or set up entry hazards.
• The fact that she can pass Wishes, Wish passing allows you to heal back up teammates that either lack their own recovery moves, (RC) or are too weakened to be able to get a recovery move off on their own before fainting.
• Make sure to both keep Chansey as healthy as possible during the game, because you will switch a lot and that could force Chansey to take its own Wishes you to use recovery on yourself a lot more than you it normally should, as well as and keeping your its Eviolite intact, since its bulk will substantially suffer if it gets Knocked Off.

Team Options
===========

• Stall staples like Mega Sableye and or other Pokemon that can get rid of entry hazards, such as Rapid Spin users or Defoggers make for great teammates, because you will naturally switch a lot. Skarmory in specific is a great partner, since not only can it Defog away hazards on your side, helping with keeping Chansey and your other Pokemon healthy, but it can also set up Stealth Rock to free your Chansey's fourth moveslot, set up Spikes to get an additional layer of entry hazards, phaze setup sweepers with Whirlwind, and tank the physical hits that would kill KO Chansey, while Chansey can take on the special hits that Skarmory has trouble with.
• Unaware users like Clefable and Quagsire help deal with Pokemon that use Chansey to set up a boosting move.
• Trappers like Dugtrio, Choice Band Weavile, and Magnezone can get rid of Pokemon that would otherwise trouble your team
• Setup sweepers like Zygarde-50% can close the game act as your win condition after their checks are worn down by hazards or status, and they also appreciate the Wish and Heal Bell support from Chansey.
• This set is able to be used on offense too, in a similar fashion as to Healing Wish Latias would, although this is very rare and there are usually better options.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
===========

• Counter is an option over Seismic Toss to mess with physical attackers in those situations that you Chansey has have to stay in against them, or if you know you Chansey can tank a hit and OHKO them back with it. It is a lot more situational than Seismic Toss, though.
• Healing Wish on the Wish passing set is an option for offensive teams, but usually Wish is enough to heal partners to full HP again, and you are also able to clear status without it HW.

Checks and Counters
================

**Knock Off Users**: Since Chansey's bulk is very dependent on its Eviolite being intact, you should be on the watch for common Knock Off users. Mega Sableye specifically completely shuts down Chansey because not only can she not touch it with Seismic Toss, but it also bounces back both hazards and status moves, leaving Chansey with nothing to do.
**Setup Sweepers**: Chansey's passivity, especially if lacking Toxic, can leave her to be it setup fodder for many Pokemon that it might wall inherently, (RC) but cannot harm either.
**Physical Attackers**: Even with a Bold nature and maximum HP and Defense investments, Chansey should still not be switched into strong physical attackers, unless there is really no other way option.
**Taunt Users**: Taunt can leave Chansey completely helpless against a lot of Pokemon, which is especially dangerous if it is used on by a Pokemon that can also use boosting moves.
**Strong Fighting-type Attacks**: Especially if they are coming from the physical side by threats like Ones that target Chansey's Defense like Keldeo's Secret Sword (a Pokemon Chansey could otherwise wall), or attacks in general from physically oriented Pokemon like Pheromosa and Buzzwole, they are one way of outright breaking through Chansey.

 

[NVT_Sart]

Done and thank you for both the GP and the tips!

Also P Squared , I noticed a "(RC)" in one line, that wasn't colored, but was also nothing that I wrote. I assume it was a mistake, so I just deleted it. If it was something important, please let me know, and I'll edit it in again :)

 

[p2]

qc have been discussing this and we unanimously agree to the ev spread being changed to 4 hp / 252 def / 252 spd. this has also been discussed in the c&c discord.

we also agree on getting rid of the wish set and putting it in other options. chansey isn't that great of a wish user and using it as a dedicated wish passer takes away from its huge utility it can provide to teams because you're either running no seismic toss or no heal bell or no status moves which is rlly bad.

 

[NVT_Sart]

I still don't understand how you can't see the obvious arguments making the old spread inferior. But if the QC team wants it the wrong way, then so be it.

Edit: Updated the EV spread and moved the Wish set from its own set to a mention in OO.

 

[NVT_Sart]

Updated the Set Details etc. according to the old spread you wanted to go back to. Analysis is finished again

 

[NVT_Sart]

Updated the thread according to the new formatting rules, by removing ordered list and replacing it with * and a space

 

[NVT_Sart]

Updated formatting once more

 

[Hootie]

uploaded