Chandelure

[AccidentalGreed]

May I suggest Trick Room Shandera? In my experience, this is very effective and straightfoward.

Shandara @ Life Orb
Shadow Tag
252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
~Trick Room
~Shadow Ball
~Fire Blast/Overheat
~Energy Ball

EDIT: use a 0 Speed IV and a Quiet nature just like you guys have conveniently suggested!

This is a simple Trick Room sweeper. It is perfectly capable of setting up Trick Room reliably on its own and not having to worry about wasting a turn, unlike other Trick Room sweepers like Rhypherior and Emboar. This Shandera is also capable of surviving neutral and weak super effective hits (Like Berungeru’s stupidly annoying Boiling Water), so it can set up Trick Room and sweep or fight to its last minute.

The EVs are straightforward; max Special Attack investment is a necessity because it takes advantage of Shandara’s beastly 145 Special Attack. This means that, paired with Shandera’s Ability, Shadow Tag, Life Orb, and the Special Attack investment, everything except some Special walls have a big chunk of their health taken away. Reminisce of a typical Trick Room abuser, this Shandera has max investment in HP and the rest in Defense to increase its bulk and thus its chance to set up Trick Room.

One advantage of using Trick Room Shandera is that because of its relatively low speed (in OU standards, on par with Dragonite and Togekiss), after a Trick Room, it outspeeds a major portion of the game. Weaknesses can easily be worked around, such like Tyranitar and Swampert outspeeding Shandaraa in Trick Room. Another advantage of using this Shandera is that you have the ability to switch attacks and deal more damage than the Choice Scarf counterpart. You do not have to worry about switching out of resistances (such like Politoed with Drizzle), and Shandera hits nearly as hard like it does with Choice Specs. Because of Shandera’s decent defenses and investment in HP, it finds itself using Trick Room easily against the likes of Ugaramoth, Blaziken, grass-type Pokemon, and Thunderwave users.

I really like this Shandara in comparison to its Scarf counterpart. What do you guys think?

 

[1234gjy]

Give it 0 speed IVs so you can always be slower and outspeed walls in TR.

 

[SLR722]

While on the subject of Trick Room Shandera, I also run one on my Trick team. It may not be the best set for it, but I find incredibly effective:

Shandera @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
Nature: Quiet (+Sp. Atk, - Spe)
IVs: 0 Spe
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 4 Def
~Trick Room
~Calm Mind
~ Flamethrower
~ Shadow Ball

It follows the basic idea of most Shadow Tag sets - bring it in on something that can't hurt it and if Trick Room is already up (ideally it would be), start Calm Minding. When Trick Room untwists, use it again to gain the speed advantage and once you are satisfied being sweepage. Shandera should be OHKOing mostly everything after a few CMs, and not much will outspeed(or not much will not outspeed it? haha) it.

 

[RocketSurgery]

With shadow tag it looks like shandera could be effective. Have you guys actually been testing it on PO? If so, how does it typically do?

In particular, what advantages does it offer (aside from being able to switch moves & invest more in HP/def EVs) over the choice scarf set that make up for having to take a turn to set up trick room (and build a trick room team), especially given that there are some slower, stronger mons this gen? Also, why should you use shandera over heatran, whose special attack isn't too much worse than shandera's at 130, and boasts less speed (hence faster in TR), better defenses, more resistances and less weaknesses. (if you add a balloon to heatran, it only has two weaknesses until the balloon is popped). I was thinking about a TR shandera earlier today and this was the main question that came to mind.

Also, we should think about non-ST TR shandera. How effective would the trick room sets be with flash fire? What might you have to change? Even if ST gets released relatively soon, it seems like the choice scarf set stands a fair chance at getting ST shandera banned, so assuming only ST or ST variants of pokemon get banned (and not shandera as a whole), how would flash fire shandera fair in trick room?

 

[KokoaKiwi]

Yeah, after ~500 battles, Nitro Charge is getting boring. I suppose I'll try a Flash Fire Trick Room. I'm still hating shadow tag, lol.

Edit: With a Roserade lead, tomorrow I'll be trying
Shandy @ Balloon
Quiet, 252 hp / 6 SpD / 252 SpA
Fire Blast / Evil Eye / Trick Room / HP ground.

 

[bludhoundz]

With Shadow Tag I find that the substitute / calm mind set can be incredibly effective and if given the opportunity will take out a minimum of 2 pokemon - the first guy it traps, and then another usually has to sack itself just to take out the substitute.

However it is more situational as you need to come in on something that can't hurt you - CS can actually outspeed and ko stuff. Still, there are many pokemon that you can easily set up on - Bliss without tbolt or cm, Nattorei, choiced pokemon using a NVE move or Draco Meteor like moves (Ditto is a fave of mine to switch in on, though you can't set up to +6/+6 thanks to 5pp and struggle).

It's kind of like Gen 4 Breloom in a way - it has to come in on something that can't do anything to it (in Breloom's case it was outspeeding though). So it isn't always useful, but when it is, it will punch holes in pretty much any team.

 

[KokoaKiwi]

Awright guys, Just tested Shandera in a Sunny Day team, and worked wonders. Had to sacrifice Venusaur to kill Hippo, but after that I changed the weather to Sun and swept with Shandy like a boss. 5-0'd. Tomorrow I'll keep testing trick room and sunny day Shandy and let you guys know how did it go.

 

[animenagai]

Shadow tag is the best ability in the game. I wouldn't trade it for anything. You guys just have to use it in a different way. Rather than thinking about shandeera as a sweeper or a pure revenge killer, ask yourself this, is there any pokemon that you would absolutely love to trap kill given your team? For example, is the only thing stopping your doryuzuu sweep your opponent's skarm? Think about it.

 

[DDRMaster]

Shadow tag is the best ability in the game. I wouldn't trade it for anything. You guys just have to use it in a different way. Rather than thinking about shandeera as a sweeper or a pure revenge killer, ask yourself this, is there any pokemon that you would absolutely love to trap kill given your team? For example, is the only thing stopping your doryuzuu sweep your opponent's skarm? Think about it.

Well Shanderaa does make an excellent partner for Doryuuzu since it can switch in on Breloom and Roopushin's Mach Punches and KO them with Overheat. I think it can OHKO Hippowdon and Gliscor as well but those two need to take some damage first.

 

[animenagai]

Well Shanderaa does make an excellent partner for Doryuuzu since it can switch in on Breloom and Roopushin's Mach Punches and KO them with Overheat. I think it can OHKO Hippowdon and Gliscor as well but those two need to take some damage first.

Exactly the type of thing that makes shadow-tag broken. I'm using wobb right now for the same reason. I used shandeera before but I wasn't sure how people felt about me using unreleased dream world stuff.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Though I knew Trick Room Shandera was relatively powerful due to perquisite testing on the day I posted that set, I did some further testing at around ~20 battles and it’s definitely worth trying out for Trick Rooms teams who need a powerful Special Attacker/Set upper.

With a Quiet Nature and a 0 Speed IV, nearly nothing outspeeds this thing in the Room, and it can proceed to set up and then come on home. Though according to RocketSurgery there are slower, faster Pokemon this generation, I believe that Shandera is one of those Pokemon and that it is not plausible to usually use a slower attacker on a standard sweeper team (hyper offensive).

It should also be noted that Shandera DOESN’T waste a turn trying to sweep because of its ability to Trick Room. This thing also doesn’t mind Thunder Wave (well, it does when you’re completely paralyzed, but that’s only ¼ of the time) and is immune to Burn status, so it’s a very effective sweeper in Trick Room. I succeeded decently with Shandera on my Trick Room team.

My only gripe is that Shandera WISHES it had Heatran’s resistances (that’s not the case in most situations due to bulk and 252 HP) and entry hazard support. I’ve had some ridiculous situations where Shandara couldn’t KO some random Pokemon, like Kingdra and….damned Mamanbou at full health (I mean, seriously that thing ACTUALLY survived Life Orb Energy Ball).

 

[scarletnova]

This is just a Shandera Variant i had been trying out on Pokemon Online for a few battles. and it was quite nice so i decided to post it here

Shandera @ Balloon/Leftovers
Shadow Tag
Modest Nature
252 252 4 (obvious)
Acid Armor
Calm Mind
Any 2 Atks

This kind of works like iron defence arceus with a higher base SAtk to start with and Shadow Tag. Switch in on a choiced Normal/Fighting/Ground(if balloon) Move(i know its rare nowadays but some people just do it.) Max out acid armor and then max out Calm Mind. You can pretty much curvive any attack (like a lot of times) and attempt to sweep the opponent's team.

 

[Zebstrika]

Shadow tag is the best ability in the game. I wouldn't trade it for anything. You guys just have to use it in a different way. Rather than thinking about shandeera as a sweeper or a pure revenge killer, ask yourself this, is there any pokemon that you would absolutely love to trap kill given your team? For example, is the only thing stopping your doryuzuu sweep your opponent's skarm? Think about it.

On most pokemon, I would say Wonder Guard is better.
Also, I think I misread bulbapedia, and it meant it is possible to get Shandera when it is released in the DW.
I think the 6 free CMs idea is overhyped, because anything that lets Shandera get 6 CMs will start running Shed Shell or something else to escape or not end up letting Shandera get 6 free CMs.
Anything with 0 Speed EVs and a neutral nature will "outspeed" trick room Shandera, provided it has base 55 Speed or less (Blissey, Snorlax, Bronzong and Nattorei are notable examples). If it has a -Speed nature and no EVs, it needs base 69 speed or less.

 

[Pluvia]

This things speed and common weaknesses hurt it badly.

Uglamoth is more of a sweeper than this thing, there's a lot of Dark moves (Pursuit, Sucker Punch) which just cripple Shan.

This thing will most likely take down whatever it switched into though.

 

[ungulateman]

Pluvia. Shandera isn't a sweeper, shouldn't be used as a sweeper, and anybody who does deserves for it to die.

It's Magnezone on steroids, pretty much.

 

[KokoaKiwi]

Pluvia. Shandera isn't a sweeper, shouldn't be used as a sweeper, and anybody who does deserves for it to die.

It's Magnezone on steroids, pretty much.

LOL no. Mid or late game you come in something can't touch you (and can't escape, either), nitro charge a couple of times and proceed to sweep with entry hazards support. Shandera is one hell of an amazing late game sweeper, but rather tricky to pull of.

Also, Shandera IS a sweeper with trick room support.

 

[Sphyxius]

May I suggest Trick Room Shandera? In my experience, this is very effective and straightfoward.

Shandara @ Life Orb
Shadow Tag
252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
~Trick Room
~Shadow Ball
~Fire Blast/Overheat
~Energy Ball

EDIT: use a 0 Speed IV and a Quiet nature just like you guys have conveniently suggested!

This is a simple Trick Room sweeper. It is perfectly capable of setting up Trick Room reliably on its own and not having to worry about wasting a turn, unlike other Trick Room sweepers like Rhypherior and Emboar. This Shandera is also capable of surviving neutral and weak super effective hits (Like Berungeru’s stupidly annoying Boiling Water), so it can set up Trick Room and sweep or fight to its last minute.

The EVs are straightforward; max Special Attack investment is a necessity because it takes advantage of Shandara’s beastly 145 Special Attack. This means that, paired with Shandera’s Ability, Shadow Tag, Life Orb, and the Special Attack investment, everything except some Special walls have a big chunk of their health taken away. Reminisce of a typical Trick Room abuser, this Shandera has max investment in HP and the rest in Defense to increase its bulk and thus its chance to set up Trick Room.

One advantage of using Trick Room Shandera is that because of its relatively low speed (in OU standards, on par with Dragonite and Togekiss), after a Trick Room, it outspeeds a major portion of the game. Weaknesses can easily be worked around, such like Tyranitar and Swampert outspeeding Shandaraa in Trick Room. Another advantage of using this Shandera is that you have the ability to switch attacks and deal more damage than the Choice Scarf counterpart. You do not have to worry about switching out of resistances (such like Politoed with Drizzle), and Shandera hits nearly as hard like it does with Choice Specs. Because of Shandera’s decent defenses and investment in HP, it finds itself using Trick Room easily against the likes of Ugaramoth, Blaziken, grass-type Pokemon, and Thunderwave users.

I really like this Shandara in comparison to its Scarf counterpart. What do you guys think?

The folks over at the Trick Room thread seem to think Shanderaa is actually too fast for trick room, and I'm inclined to agree. I wouldn't run anything faster than 50 base speed on a TR team honestly, and even that is pushing it. As far as setting it up, you'd want something far bulkier, like Slowbro or Uxie.

 

[scissorblades]

Well Shanderaa does make an excellent partner for Doryuuzu since it can switch in on Breloom and Roopushin's Mach Punches and KO them with Overheat.

Alternatively, you could use trick (drop flamethrower/energy ball for it) and lock them into that priority move, usually mach punch, though Technotop may try to Bullet punch. Then do something like switch in Gyarados, DD on the switch, and try to sweep.

 

[Granstafer]

The folks over at the Trick Room thread seem to think Shanderaa is actually too fast for trick room, and I'm inclined to agree. I wouldn't run anything faster than 50 base speed on a TR team honestly, and even that is pushing it. As far as setting it up, you'd want something far bulkier, like Slowbro or Uxie.

it really depends on your thinking. iv'e seen gallade, who has the same speed as shandera, used in trick room, so...?

 

[Sphyxius]

it really depends on your thinking. iv'e seen gallade, who has the same speed as shandera, used in trick room, so...?

...and?

...who won that match?

 

[DDRMaster]

Alternatively, you could use trick (drop flamethrower/energy ball for it) and lock them into that priority move, usually mach punch, though Technotop may try to Bullet punch. Then do something like switch in Gyarados, DD on the switch, and try to sweep.

Trick's mechanics have changed. Even if you're leading with a Trick user and use Trick on them as they set up Stealth Rock, they still get to choose a different move next turn.

0 EV/IV Quiet Shanderaa reaches 148 Speed. This allows it to outspeed everything with a Base Speed of 57 (58 and higher when running 2 Spe IV for 70 BP HP Fighting) and higher when Trick Room is up. Notable slow Pokemon that it outspeeds are Zuruzukin and Swampert. It doesn't outrun Machamp or Roobushin, but that could actually be a good thing so that their Paybacks only have 50 Base Power.

I was running a Scizor on my Trick Room team (outspeeds Base 43's and higher in TR) and it worked well. Even though Shanderaa is a little fast for some people's tastes, it still has the potential to work in Trick Room.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Sigh, yes. The curses of "average speed". If it's speed actually got worse, it can't really use Choice Scarf effectively, and it can actually be better, but we learn to deal with things. Shandera's base 80 speed is the reason why speed is torrented, and it's positive aspects outweigh the negative in the form of bulk and Shadow Tag and ridiculously powerful 145 Special Attack. On the competitive standpoint, not many people utilize Pokemon with horribly low Speed because it tends to slow down the momentum of the standard offensive strategy, so Shandera has little to fear of being paralyzed or outsped (it makes a good Thunder Wave bait).

 

[Granstafer]

...and?

...who won that match?

I did, but he took out 3 of my pokes because they were speedy so...

 

[xscythe]

The one problem with Shandara is he forces a change in teams without even being in play. A player cannot run a choice item on a pokemon that has a normal or fighting attack due to the existence of a pokemon with a trapping ability and 2 immunities (especially with Fighting being one of the most common and normal having some of the most useful effects ex. rapid spin, extreme speed) and a stat pump effect.

 

[KokoaKiwi]

The one problem with Shandara is he forces a change in teams without even being in play. A player cannot run a choice item on a pokemon that has a normal or fighting attack due to the existence of a pokemon with a trapping ability and 2 immunities (especially with Fighting being one of the most common and normal having some of the most useful effects ex. rapid spin, extreme speed) and a stat pump effect.

Implying people ever used choiced normal or fighting moves in Gen IV. I know there's pokes that actually do it (like staraptor), but they're really few. As of today I still don't see how is Shandera remotely broken.