Chandelure (Trick Room) [QC 0/3]

[Joeyboy]

Disclaimer: Very new to this so I'm sorry if I mess up :)

Status: Skeleton

QC Approvals (0/3):

GP Approvals (0/2):

[SET]
name: Offensive Trick Room
move 1: Trick Room
move 2: Fire Blast/Flamethrower
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Hidden Power Ground/Hidden Power Fighting/Energy Ball
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Quiet
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
iv's: 31/31/31/30/30/3(For HP Ground) / 31/31/30/30/30/2 (For HP Fighting)

Why this deserves to be on-site: Because Chandelure, while being an unorthodox trick room pokemon functions surprisingly well in an Offensive role. Following in Reuniclus' footsteps is Chandelure and although it might not have access to Magic Guard or Reuniclus's astronomically abysmal speed it does have some things Reuniclus doesn't. Chandelure's bulk is often lost on many players due to it needing EV's in it's offensive stats. But with Trick Room at its disposal it can forgo the Speed EV's and invest in bulk. With the above EV's Chandelure is rocking 324/216/215 defensive spread which is not a far cry from the standard TR Sweeper Reuniclus's 409/202/206 and with even more power! A +nature fully invested Chandelure's spatk hits 426 as opposed to Reuniclus' 383. Of course Chandelure is SR weak while Reuniclus takes no damage from hazards but the point remains that Trick Room Chandelure can pack quite the punch with the right support. It's typing and Flash Fire ability also gives it a particular niche for TR teams, giving them numerous immunities to play with.

Move-set Explanation:

Trick Room: is there so Chandelure can out-slow many pokemon after its activation.

Fire Blast/Flamethrower: Basic fire stab, the only choice is that age ol' question of Power vs. Accuracy.

Shadow Ball: Stab option number two. Hits all those psychic and ghost pokemon for SE damage and shares great neutral coverage with your Fire stab.

Hidden Power Ground/Hidden Power Fighting/Energy Ball: The only moveslot that is really up for grabs. The final move can be picked to fit your individual team's needs. Hidden Power Ground hits Heatran hard, a pokemon who otherwise walls you. HP Fighting is mainly for Tyranitar who continues to be a big stick in the mud for Chandelure. Energy Ball is if your team despises bulky waters of all shapes and sizes and wants them gone.

The item is for you too decide, Life Orb offers more power but at the price of 10% life per attack. But if you find your Chandelure is taking too much passive damage before "moving-on" then Expert Belt is the choice for you.

Teammates and Counters: This Chandelure finds its home on TR teams due to it's teammates appreciating the support it brings. TR teams may use hazards more freely as his ghost typing brings a valuable spin-blocker to the table. Defensively it partners well with Bronzong as they cover many of each others weakness and both love TR support. Offensively it pairs well with Reuniclus because they both share a similar purpose, out-slow everyone and blast them with high powered Special Attacks. They pound on your opponents Special walls until one of them can outright sweep. Based on Chandelure's final move either Heatran or Tyranitar will be hard to deal with. They both can come in quite effortlessly and proceed to use either Earth Power or Pursuit/Crunch, respectively, to seriously maim this Candle Pokemon. Though true to it's name Chandelure can act as a quality lure to these troublesome foes who can both be easily disposed of by a friendly neighborhood Dugtrio. Also like all Stealth Rock weak Pokemon Chandelure appreciates rapid spin support, as it will allows it to come onto the field with it's health intact.

More than happy to add more :) Let me know if there's anything I should change. Really want to start contributing to Smogon and help up the community!

 

[Agonist]

It's Chandelure, not Shandera. Always use the English names. And iirc Trick Room is already mentioned in the current on-site analysis.

 

[Joeyboy]

!! I'm very sorry I didn't even realize I did that :( And is there a separate analysis other than this http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/chandelure because there is no Trick Room mention on that page. Also thanks Agonist :)

 

[bugmaniacbob]

You need to put in some actual information about this set before putting it up for approval, since you will eventually have to write up a description for it. For example, you might want to explain what the point of the set is, why we would use it over any other Chandelure set, giving evidence to back up your statements, possibly in the form of damage calculations, then explain why you have chosen your move combination over any other, what the moves are for, what are the merits of using a particular move over another should they be slashed, ditto for the item, nature, and EV spread (may want to use a Quiet nature with minimum Speed to avoid being "outsped" under Trick Room), and how your team can be customised to support this Chandelure (Trick Room teammates, standard Chandelure partners, etc).

Oh and also you can change the title yourself by editing your post.

 

[Joeyboy]

Added more explanation but I'd be more than happy to add even more. :)

 

[PK Gaming]

Eh i'm not really a fan of TR Chandelure. I feel that its outdone by sub (both sets require a turn of set up, but at least sub offers up protection) and it doesn't really look like a stellar TR sweeper. It's stopped by one of the most common Pokemon in the game on top of being SR weak.

Sorry this gets a no from me

QC REJECTED (1/3)

 

[Steamroll]

Base 80 speed is just too high to try and run a trick room set. Given that other TR users like Reuniclus can come in after a kill and out slow to clean OHKO after rocks damage (OTR Reun does 82.1% - 96.9% with Shadow Ball). Plus OTR users need to have some sort of bulk in order to take a hit just in case one attack doesn't KO, which 60/90/90 doesn't exactly scream out "I can take a hit and keep going." This is true against Bronzong which is 2HKO'd by shadow ball and can OHKO back with EQ after rocks and/or Life Orb damage.

 

[GtM]

I'd say Chandelure is /just/ about slow enough to use Trick Room, since it can still undercut Tyranitar under its effects. That said, I wouldn't use it in OU over Reuniclus due to the Stealth Rock weakness inhibiting its decent bulk. It's only 20% less bulky than Reuniclus, but the extra residual damage doesn't help it out.

It's probably worth trying this set in UU, however.

 

[JimFandango]

Focus sash over both the life orb, which allows it to get off maybe one deadly heat wave before dieing which the fire gem does better and the expert belt which does next to nothing considering the previously stated fact that chandelure is built like a cardboard bomb, deadly but very fragile. And on that note, where is heat wave? and protect for stalling?

 

[Pocket]

IMO, TR Chandelure is viable in OU. Remember, just because a different mon does offensive Trick Room better doesn't mean that Chandelure shouldn't have an OTR set. For one, it can pair up with Reuniclus - forming somewhat of a "double-dragon-esque" offense for Trick Room. I think 140 SAtk (plus the ability to go +SpA rather than Timid), makes Chandelure a one deadly TR Sweeper that can soften up for / clean up after Reuniclus.

Not to mention, its nifty typing lets it set up TR on different mons than Reuniclus, such as Volcarona, Scizor, and Jirachi. Being resistant / immune to Bullet Punch, ExtremeSpeed, and Mach Punch also comes in handy while Trick Room is activated.

I agree with PKGaming that the Sub Chandelure is probably better overall. However, Sub Chandelure is self-sufficient / self-contained, whereas Trick Room Chandelure can also be seen as a team supporter, setting up Trick Room for the team in expense of its offensive capabilities (which is by no means hampered by Trick Room anyways).

 

[JimFandango]

Pocket makes a good point with the Reuniclus teammate, but i stand by my original opinion, chandelure isint doing anything amazing without a focus sash and heat wave :P

 

[pie cream]

Why have heat wave when fireblast does more damage? This isn't doubles.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Since the unspoken law of Trick Room analyses applies to Pokemon such as Gallade, it would be best to just mention this in OO as another option over Chandelure's fourth move. Until Chandelure can find a way function uniquely on TR teams (i.e. Shadow Tag to trap potential set up bait), it simply belongs in OO, imo. Being able to beat usual speedy counters pretty much applies to other TR-oriented Pokemon as well.

 

[Joeyboy]

Thanks Pocket :) you more or less nailed why I thought OTR Chandelure warranted it's own set. I ran that same double-OTR combo you mentioned and it was the reason why I decided to try my hand at posting this guy. He makes a wonderful Scizor switch-in which many TR teams(mine anyways :) seem hard pressed for; largely due to all the Psychics who love TR.

I see why you guys believe he is outclassed by Subdelure but I successfully used him and he played much differently from the other sets so I thought I'd see what everyone thought.

Thanks for the feedback regardless :)

 

[PK Gaming]

Right since you're determined, I might remove my rejection IF you can provide me logs that show this sets success.

 

[JimFandango]

@pie cream, because heat wave has more accuracy than fire blast and more power than flamethrower, making it a more steady middle ground

 

[pie cream]

I rather have more power in fire blast or more accuracy for 5 less base power in flamthrower.

 

[Bloo]

Since the unspoken law of Trick Room analyses applies to Pokemon such as Gallade, it would be best to just mention this in OO as another option over Chandelure's fourth move. Until Chandelure can find a way function uniquely on TR teams (i.e. Shadow Tag to trap potential set up bait), it simply belongs in OO, imo. Being able to beat usual speedy counters pretty much applies to other TR-oriented Pokemon as well.

What he said. Rejecting this and moving.

Good try, feel free to try again in the future. However, take a look at the formatting rules before you do ;).