CAP 6 CAP 6 - Part 1 - Concept Poll 2

Which concept should we use?


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Seed order based on results of the last poll:

Name: Decentralizer
Description:A Pokemon can check a majority of the current top 5 Pokemon.

This is basically what Gormenghast wanted to do with Camerupt, but broader. I feel that specifically mentioning Scizor, Zapdos, and Heatran makes the concept too restrictive, but ideally this would be able to take at least two of these Pokemon on (Blissey does fthis for certain varients of Zapdos and Heatran). Unfortunately, there are very few type combos that do this, which is why I don't want to mention any specific Pokemon in the description.
Concept: The Great Tank of China
Description: A tank designed to take hits, and dish a lot of them out as well

This Pokemon is the one me and tennisace are basically dying for. AKA type1/type2 tank, attacking and walling (most likely specially biased). It would be like Rhyperior in a sense, except it would be aimed for at the special side of the spectrum. The movepool would be able to hit hard, and could probably assist the team with moves such as Spikes / Stealth Rock, as well as status moves such as T-Wave which is a given.

It would be able to counter Heatran (if we add an ability or something, such as Levitate) and it already completely owns Zapdos for the most part (HP Ice may be the only problem). We can make it this fully adapted to the OU environment countering many threats. We can also make it so that it is more like Rhyperior ability-wise being able to actually counter a lot of threats. The typing is really subjective but Electric / Dragon is currently what I am hoping for. The main idea though is a tank, likely special biased so it isn't a mini-Rhyperior.

Alright, expect a sort of a long post here... so if you're not into reading one, I suggest you leave now.

There are oh so many "creative" ideas that we could go with, but I feel that perhaps you could consider a less "creative" one, in lieu of one that would benefit the metagame at large.

It's no small secret that the metagame is largely centralized around physical attacking. They have the easiest time breaking through and making a sweep. And have, in general, better distribution of stat-upping moves such as Swords Dance. A quick look at OU Pokemon used will reveal that the majority of them are of the Physical variety.

Now if you were to look at the physical attackers of OU, it is pretty apparent that they are the more powerful Pokemon compared to their special attacking counterparts (whose usefulness generally stems from the lack of good Special Defense of the majority of OU, rather than raw power). Very rarely does anyone complain about special attackers (atleast those who are good at battling). And that is because of one thing, Blissey. Blissey is such a complete stop to what special attacking has to offer that if one has such a huge special weakness, the only thing you need to add is Blissey and you're good to go. The beauty of Blissey, however, comes in its exploitable weaknesses, and lack of ability to do MUCH of anything but sit there and stall (aside from the gimmicky Calm Mind set).

So I offer to you, my concept submission.

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Name: The Physical Blissey
Description: A Pokemon capable of coming in on the majority of Physical attackers and threatening them in some way.

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This one Pokemon could wildly shake up the Metagame as we know it. Much like Blissey, it should be able to do little offensively, and have fairly few support options, but what it does have ... it should be able to utilize incredibly effectively.

Not only do I believe that this Pokemon would be benificial to the Metagame at large, but I also think that it would be a nice change of pace for the CAP community. I am interested in seeing how the community will go about balancing, while not nerfing, this tentative Pokemon.

Consider the submission... you won't regret it!

Lets throw this in:
Name: Tier-Tossup
Description: Something that can handle top tier threats but falls to some lower pokemon

I am rather sick of the same group of Pokemon coming again and again. This could enrich the metagame by bringing some lesser seen Pokes into the OU area while reducing spammage of the EXTREMELY overused Pokes (and you know who I'm talking about..)

I know I'm novate in CAP, and I visit the server a few times [However I think I'm more useful in Art Polls], but I'll put a submission, maybe I may inspirated someone here.

Concept: Masochist
Description: OU viable pokemon who hurt himself to get some kind of advantage.

Explanation: I'm seeing a Belly Drum user, Reckless,or Moves with recoil damage, etc. Maybe this sounds lame, but we can make a new ability that get an advantage with self-hurting moves.

I prefered a bulky pokemon, that easily can wall the latest CAP pokemon or the most used pokemon in CAP server. It tooks damage from the other pokemon and itself,... and easily can defeat 2 or 3 pokemons.

Name: Anti Switch

Description:
A Pokemon that blocks or punishes switching.

Explanation:
There are so many ways this could go but if done right all would lead to a better metagame.
As it is the only viable switch blockers are Dugtrio, Magnezone and STAB Pursuit users, I think that this is quite limited considering that a large majority of the most threatening Pokemon that you want out of the way (SkyMin, Gyrados, Salamence, Scarftran, some Tyranitar) have little or no problem dealing with or escapeing from these trappers and psudo trappers.

Something that has the ability not just to counter some top OUs, but to remove them from the game (possibly only via revenge trapping) would be a great help IMO. SkyMin and Tyranitar in particular are very centriliseing for the CaP metagame.

Name: Anti Stat-Up
Description: A Pokemon that may punish stat-ups or simply ignore them.
Explanation: Our metagame is currently a very dangerous one in that there are very few reliable responses to stat-upping threats like Salamence. Through ability, typing and other components, this Pokemon will be able to reliably slow or even stop stat-upping threats from wreaking havoc.
Name: Kingdra in the Snow
Description: A pokemon who has average sweeping capabilities but has the potential to become a real force in the Hail

Explanation: Yes, I inspired this to the example concept^^ but this does not limit its importance. We all know that Hail teams lack a bit in the offensive departement, since the only offensive boost granted by the Hail is 100% acc Blizzard. Most Hail teams thus rely on stall, but in this department they are greatly hindered by Stealth Rock. Much like Kingdra in the rain, I'd like that Hail teams could take advantage of a sweeper which under the hail - and only under the hail, unlike Syclant and friends - could become a true top OU sweeper.

Concept: Anti-Trick
Desc: Besides complaints about Scizor, Heatran, Skymin and Stealth Rock, the most common whining right now consists of "Trick is gay". With the current Pokemon with anti-Trick traits (Sticky Hold, Klutz, etc) all being UU (or in Arceus' case, banned even from ubers), I think it would be good to get a Pokemon that can switch into common Trick threats (Celebi, Starmie, Rotoms, Alakazam) without risking its life out there. Preferably it should be able to ward them off, while not caring about being Tricked.
 
Yes! good to be able to see the current votes without having to count them all!

I'm voting for the decentralizer, because I think it provides the most wiggle room. I'm personally hoping for a consistent gimmicky pokemon that decentralizes. It sounds fun ^_^
 
I don't know why anyone is voting for the Hyra's Decentralizer when there is TehPiplup Man's Tier-Tossup.

Let us compare:

Name: Decentralizer
Description:A Pokemon can check a majority of the current top 5 Pokemon.

Name: Tier-Tossup
Description: Something that can handle top tier threats but falls to some lower pokemon

The two concepts are very similar in that the main stipulation is to create a pokemon that can handle the best of OU but Tier-Tossup has the added benefit of us tailoring that pokemon to be solidly countered by BL/UU pokemon. This is definitely quite a challenge but not impossible.

Decentralizer has the unhelpful 'top 5 pokemon' phrase which Some people take to mean Current Top 5 CAP OU pokemon. I think it's telling that no one has even named all 5 yet! As latinoheat said, some people may be voting for this 'top 5' without even having much of an idea of what pokes they are or even if they're the same between Smogon U and CAP servers.

Tier-tossup allows for more flexibility by leaving it up to the community to choose the OU threats to be countered, while setting the clearer decentralising goal of encouraging usage of BL/UU pokemon.
 
Kingdra of the Snow is pretty nice, considering Hail is actually usable these days, whereas Sunny Day isn't.
 
voted decentralizer. tier tossup is interesting but the constraints it imposes are strange and less manageable.
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
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reposted from the other thread, still largely applies.

My thoughts on the more popular ideas


First off all I think that the concept should give a clear direction, something like "decentraliser" is just a goal and one that a large majority of the CaP voters want from every project to some extent. Also the "top 5" of OU are different from CaP and could result in the masses outvoting those who know CaP's meta if that's the specific goal.
IMO it is a little too "open".

Physical Blissey... It seems like a kinda good idea, but I think that having a full stop to a large majority of Physical sweepers may shift the metagame too far towards stall and the large metagame change that will result may make it much harder for new players to learn. For these reasons I will not vote for LN's idea.

SoT's Great Wall and Sikha's Great Tank are both interesting propositions but as has been stated by tennis and other the CaP meta is not overly offensive. Also we have Pyroak people, its a BRILLIANT wall outside of sandstorm.

Out of the most popular options (other than mine) I probably like Mekkah's idea best. It gives a clear and specified goal that still leaves a very large amount of room for the other polls.

I also quite like Calad's.

But my choice is to vote for my own proposition: eric the espeon's Anti Switch
I think that the submittion explains it best (for now, maybe I will write some long support thingy for it.):


Name: Anti Switch

Description:
A Pokemon that blocks or punishes switching.

Explanation:
There are so many ways this could go but if done right all would lead to a better metagame.
As it is the only viable switch blockers are Dugtrio, Magnezone and STAB Pursuit users, I think that this is quite limited considering that a large majority of the most threatening Pokemon that you want out of the way (SkyMin, Gyrados, Salamence, Scarftran, some Tyranitar) have little or no problem dealing with or escapeing from these trappers and psudo trappers.

Something that has the ability not just to counter some top OUs, but to remove them from the game (possibly only via revenge trapping) would be a great help IMO. SkyMin and Tyranitar in particular are very centriliseing for the CaP metagame.
 
Voted for the Decentralizer. I know I supported Sikh's idea in the last thread, but Decentralizer was up there in my favorites anyways. However, after seeing other arguements in the previous thread as well as on the server, I am more convinced that the more open idea that Hyra presents will likely yield better results than the GWoC concept would (sorry, i like abbrieviations). Both of course would bring about nice changes and counter big threats, balancing things in the process, but specifically countering the top OUs rather than a variety of pokemon that may be less threatening (though the list can still include those top OUs) imo is better. I am fine with either Hyra's or Sikh's ideas winning.
 
I'm confused as to the popularity of the Great Tank of China idea. I don't see how an Electric/Dragon special attacking tank with Thunder Wave and Spikes is gonna add anything to the metagame other than itself.

It's a pretty limiting idea especially since Sikh Assassin has basically described the whole pokemon through stats, typing, movepool and role. All we need is a dex entry and we're done.
You can say that none of it is chosen yet but the sheer amount of popularity for Electric/Dragon means that's it's a likely win.

Wouldn't it be better to go for a concept where not Everything is predetermined?
 
Hey guys lets stop poll-jumping. Why are all of you assuming it will be Dragon/Electric? That was just an example. Don't let other's interpretations be yours.
 

tennisace

not quite too old for this, apparently
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Hey guys lets stop poll-jumping. Why are all of you assuming it will be Dragon/Electric? That was just an example. Don't let other's interpretations be yours.
Agreed, though I can give you a whole list of reasons why it would be good.
 
That is sort of the point tennis. Everyone can give reasons why a specific typing/movepool/etc. would be best on X concept, persuaing people with their own idea with specifics as opposed to people thinking for themselves how it could work, limiting the thinking process in later polls, since people already have set what the concept would be like instead of making their own suggestions.
 
I'm all for 'tier tossup' in theory, but I don't see how we could create a Pokemon that fits the criteria without specifically picking a UU Pokemon or two beforehand as its counter. Not only would that be pretty contrived, but either the chosen UU Pokemon still wouldn't see much use in favour of the next best OU counterpart, or we'd succeed and centralize the game further.

Voting Decentraliser.

The tank might be fun though too, even if it is a diss to Pyroak.
 

Magmortified

<b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
is a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Decentralizer has a number of good points. One in that it isn't as limiting as tier-tossup, and two in that I feel that it would have a more positive effect on the metagame than the other concepts. Some others like the Tank caught my eye, Decentralizer has my personal preference.

Plus, it'd probably be good to see what would come up if the "top five" had an antithesis of sorts. The primary issue is which top five it would be drawing from: standard OU, or CAP OU.
 
Anti-trick is failing :(, I'll probably be supporting Great Tank later on, though I think it and the Decentralizer will be going in the same direction for the most part anyways
 
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