CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 10.5 (Movepool poll)

[Gothic Togekiss]

Type: Fire/Grass
Stat Spread:  120 HP / 70 Atk / 105 Def / 95 SpA / 90 SpD / 60 Speed
BST: 540
Ability #1: Rock Head
Ability #2: Battle Armor
Pokémon Appearance: [URL="http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b358/KnightOfLodis/woodman.png"]Codename: Pass the Dutchie[/URL]

Here the movepool poll everyone is waiting for. Below here is the list of his semi-final movepool. Raise any issues you have with it in this thread. Especially important issues will be outlined after the movepool; these will have bold text voting done separately for each down below. Within each question, you are allow to choose multiple options of your choice. These issues will be bolded in the movepool.

Level-Up Moves:
- Wood Hammer (Heart Scale)
- Flare Blitz (Heart Scale)
- Leer
- Pound
- Growl
5. Bullet Seed
9. Focus Energy
13. Ember
17. Growth
21. Leech Seed
25. Stun Spore
29. Ancient Power
33. Synthesis/Morning Sun
37. Energy Ball
45. Will-o-Wisp
51. Flamethrower
57. Zap Cannon
63. Flash Cannon
72. Hyper Beam

TM/HM Moves:
TM 05-Roar
TM 06-Toxic
TM 08-Bulk Up
TM 09-Bullet Seed
TM 10-Hidden Power
TM 11-Sunny Day
TM 15-Hyper Beam
TM 16-Light Screen
TM 17-Protect
TM 19-Giga Drain
TM 21-Frustration
TM 23-Iron Tail
TM 27-Return
TM 28-Dig
TM 30-Shadow Ball
TM 31-Brick Break
TM 32-Double Team
TM 33-Reflect
TM 34-Shock Wave
TM 35-Flamethrower
TM 36-Sludge Bomb
TM 38-Fire Blast
TM 39-Rock Tomb
TM 40-Aerial Ace
TM 42-Façade
TM 43-Secret Power
TM 44-Rest
TM 45-Attract
TM 50-Overheat
TM 53-Energy Ball
TM 56-Fling
TM 57-Charge Beam
TM 58-Endure
TM 61-Will-o-Wisp
TM 66-Payback
TM 68-Giga Impact
TM 75-Sword Dance
TM 76-Stealth Rock
TM 80-Rock Slide
TM 82-Sleep Talk
TM 83-Natural Gift
TM 86-Grass Knot
TM 87-Swagger
TM 90-Substitute
TM 91-Flash Cannon

HM 04-Strength
HM 06-Rock Smash
HM 08-Rock Climb


Egg Moves:
Dragon Dance
Dragon Breath
Howl
Mud Bomb
Seed Bomb
Curse
Aromatherapy
Leaf Storm

--------------------

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
Bulk Up
Curse
Swords Dance
Dragon Dance

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
Brick Break
Rock Slide

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
-Yes, as Heart Scale moves
-No, Make both of them egg move.

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
Stun Spore
Reflect/Light Screen

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis/Morning Sun
-No,

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
Zap Cannon
Charge Beam
Ancientpower
Leaf Storm

 

[darkie]

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
Bulk Up
Curse
Swords Dance
Dragon Dance

Not both at the same time; either/or. If i'm only allowed one, Dragon Dance would be better, imo.

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
Brick Break
Rock Slide

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
-Yes, as Heart Scale moves
-No

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
Stun Spore
Reflect/Light Screen

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis/Morning Sun
-No,

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
Zap Cannon
Charge Beam
Ancientpower
Leaf Storm

I don't think these two would cause much controversry once Woodman is said and done with.

 

[Fishin]

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
Dragon Dance

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
Neither

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
Yes, but with Wood Hammer as an egg move (inherited from Torterra). That way, it's illegal with Dragon Dance, which helps balance a DD set better.

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
None.

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
No.

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
Leaf Storm.

 

[Captain]

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
Bulk Up
Curse
Swords Dance
Dragon Dance

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
Brick Break
Rock Slide

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
-Yes, as Heart Scale moves
-No

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
Stun Spore
Reflect/Light Screen

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis/Morning Sun
-No,

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
Zap Cannon
Charge Beam
Ancientpower
Leaf Storm

 

[Rena22]

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
Curse

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
Rock Slide

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
-No

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
Reflect/Light Screen

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis/Morning Sun

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
Charge Beam
Ancientpower

 

[Fishin]

Oh, and I may as well repost the calculations/arguments for Dragon Dance.

Why Dragon Dance wouldn't be overpowered on Woodman:
For this example, let's go with the suggestion Dane and I both made awhile ago of making Wood Hammer/DD egg moves, so that Wood Hammer is illegal with Dragon Dance. This only really affects Gyarados as a counter, but that's still fairly significant. Now, what counters Woodman with DD? (I'll just assume 252 atk/spe, adamant, LO for all calculations)

Gyarados:
Woodman does 32.29% - 38.02% (25.00% - 29.43% with lefties) damage with Seed Bomb after one Dragon Dance, including Intimidate. If it Seed Bombs on the switch, 21.88% - 25.52% (16.67% - 19.79% if Woodman is carrying lefties). This same BulkyGyara does 49.61% - 58.27% back with Stone Edge. Woodman is just barely 3HKOing AFTER a Dragon Dance with LO, and Gyarados is 2HKOing pretty solidly. Without LO, Woodman's damage is pretty pititful. Clearly, Gyara counters DDWoodman very effectively.

Salamence:
Woodman does 23.35% - 27.41% with Return to Aldaron's Fatmence (252 HP / 220 Def, Bold/Impish) after a DD, again including Intimidate. Given that Fatmence always carries a recovery move, there's virtually no way that Woodman can pose a significant threat. Meanwhile, 0 atk/sp atk Salamence is dealing 47.51% - 55.91% with Stone Edge, 43.31% - 50.92% with Aerial Ace, and 30.45% - 35.70% with Dragon Pulse.

Heatran:
Woodman's return does 23.46% - 27.78% to 0/4 Heatran after one DD. Clearly, DD Woodman isn't touching Heatran anytime soon. Heatran does only 35.17% - 41.21% damage back with Flamethrower (0 sp atk), but it hardly matters because Woodman is dealing pitiful damage and/or damaging itself with recoil (not to mention 0 sp atk Heatran would only be seen on defensive sets, which are at even less risk). In a more realistic 0/4 Heatran situation, Specstran will 2HKO with Flamethrower, as will Scarf Heatran with Fire Blast.

Moltres:
Woodman does 34.64% - 40.78% with Return against Sarenji's defensive Moltres (248 hp/148 def, Bold) after one DD, while Moltres does 33.86% - 39.90% back with Flamethrower or 53.28% - 62.73% with Air Slash. It's only a true counter if it carries Air Slash, but otherwise it's still capable of dealing a fair amount of damage to Woodman.

Togekiss:
Woodman does 78.34% - 91.98% with Flare Blitz against 252 HP Togekiss after a DD. Clearly, Togekiss isn't going to be an effective counter to this, but it can switch in, take one attack, and then deal a lot of damage with Air Slash.

Again, remember that ALL of these calcs are done with 252 attack, Adamant, 1 DD, and LO, unless stated otherwise. If there are at least 3 hard, top-level OU counters (none of which are beaten by the same Hidden Power) and plenty of other checks, I think it's safe to say that DD won't be overpowered on Woodman. This IS assuming that we don't give either Brick Break or Rock Slide to Woodman, so please take that into consideration when you vote, though the only counter that Brick Break removes is Heatran.

 

[DougJustDoug]

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
None of them

Two 120BP physical moves without recoil is plenty. I could possibly go with Dragon Dance, but I'm currently voting against it.

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
Neither

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
-Yes, as Heart Scale moves
-No, one of them placed as an egg move.

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
Stun Spore
Reflect/Light Screen

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis/Morning Sun
-No,

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
None of them

 

[Gmax]

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
Dragon Dance

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
Neither

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
Yes, and they should be compatible with DD.

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
None. Yeah, Stun Spore would totally break it.

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
No. God no.

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
Only Leaf Storm.

 

[Deck Knight]

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
None

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
Brick Break

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
-No, one of them placed as an egg move.

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
Reflect

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
Charge Beam
Leaf Storm

 

[KoA]

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
None

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
None

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
-Yes, as Heart Scale moves
-No, one of them placed as an egg move.

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
Stun Spore
Reflect/Light Screen

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis/Morning Sun
-No

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
Zap Cannon
Charge Beam
Ancientpower
Leaf Storm

 

[Urza]

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
Bulk Up
Curse
Swords Dance
Dragon Dance

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
Brick Break
Rock Slide
None

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
-Yes, as Heart Scale moves (one could be an egg move, but they should both be accessible. so maybe curse and flare blitz are both egg moves, so it can have curse and wood hammer, but not all three)
-No, one of them placed as an egg move.

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
Stun Spore
Reflect/Light Screen
None

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis/Morning Sun
-No,

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
Zap Cannon
Charge Beam
Ancientpower
Leaf Storm

 

[Bluekikatana]

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
(No bulk up)
(No curse)
Swords Dance
Dragon Dance

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
Brick Break
Rock Slide
I vote for both being ok. As electric attacks will do more to Gyarados.

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
-Yes, as Heart Scale moves
Yes go for both

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
I say no screens and no stun spore.

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis/Morning Sun
Yes either

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
Zap Cannon
Charge Beam
Ancientpower
Leaf Storm

All of these match this Pokemon well, so yes for all 4.

 

[X-Act]

Obligary "there are too many moves in the level-up list" comment. 16 different moves is the absolute maximum there should be. There are 19. Hopefully 3 of them will be voted out. If that doesn't happen, remove stuff like Focus Energy or whatever.

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
Bulk Up - No
Curse - Yes
Swords Dance - No
Dragon Dance - No

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
Brick Break - Yes. I need to make it clear though that if Swords Dance gets voted as Yes, then this move should be removed.
Rock Slide - Yes

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
-Yes, as Heart Scale moves
-No, one of them placed as an egg move.

Don't care either way. However, I need to note that in order not for this Pokemon to get both of these moves at the same time, then both of them must be egg moves, not just one of them.

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
Stun Spore - No
Reflect/Light Screen - Don't care

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis/Morning Sun
-No,

Yes

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
Zap Cannon
Charge Beam
Ancientpower
Leaf Storm

All of them

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Hey, so the movepool shown in the OP isn't perfect, so sue me :C

 

[Mekkah]

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
Bulk Up
Curse
Swords Dance
Dragon Dance

My reasoning is that as long as it doesn't become more bulky than it already is, it is too slow to sweep off the bat with its 70 Atk. I don't see a LOT of harm in Curse/Bulk Up though so I'm fine either way.

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
Brick Break
Rock Slide

I'm going with neither on the assumption that it's getting physical buffs.

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
-Yes, as Heart Scale moves
-No, one of them placed as an egg move.

Isn't it only possible to make it unable to get only one of them by making both egg moves or is that just me?

hi5 X-Act

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
Stun Spore
Reflect/Light Screen

All of 'em, and if they prove broken, remove.

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis/Morning Sun
-No,

Same as above.

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
Zap Cannon
Charge Beam
Ancientpower
Leaf Storm

I'd like to stay clear of the Rock move for now. Leaf Storm is harmless if it's already getting Grass Knot. I cannot see Zap Cannon being broken, Charge Beam :maybe:, but test it anyway.

EDIT: I didn't even see U-turn. I didn't put it in my own movepool because I didn't think it fit. I don't see it as a gamebreaking move or anything, I just don't think it makes sense.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

However, I need to note that in order not for this Pokemon to get both of these moves at the same time, then both of them must be egg moves, not just one of them.

Fixed, any other problems you like to point out? I'm just noticing a trend with all the voting here.

 

[linton]

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
Bulk Up
Curse
Swords Dance
Dragon Dance

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
Brick Break
Rock Slide

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
-Yes, as Heart Scale moves
-No, Make both of them egg move.

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
Stun Spore
Reflect/Light Screen

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis/Morning Sun
-No,

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
Zap Cannon
Charge Beam
Ancientpower
Leaf Storm

 

[gorm]

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
Bulk Up
Curse
Swords Dance
Dragon Dance

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
Brick Break
Rock Slide

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
-Yes, as Heart Scale moves
-No, Make both of them egg move.

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
Stun Spore
Reflect/Light Screen

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis/Morning Sun
-No,

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
Zap Cannon
Charge Beam
Ancientpower
Leaf Storm

 

[nihilist]

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
Bulk Up
Curse
Swords Dance
Dragon Dance

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
Brick Break
Rock Slide

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
-Yes, as Heart Scale moves
-No, Make both of them egg move.

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
Stun Spore
Reflect/Light Screen

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis/Morning Sun
-No,

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
Zap Cannon
Charge Beam
Ancientpower
Leaf Storm

 

[eric the espeon]

GT Aromatherapy should be added to the ones that need voting on, I think enough people dislike it to be worth adding. Sorry I did not say this sooner.


--------------------

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
Bulk Up
Curse
Swords Dance
Dragon Dance
with 70 base attack its fine IMO

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
Brick Break
Rock Slide
both fine

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
-Yes, as Heart Scale moves
-No, Make both of them egg move.

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
Stun Spore
Reflect/Light Screen

none. don't want it to be an unbreakable wall or to outspeed everything.

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis/Morning Sun
-No
dam this thing would be a monster with one of those.

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
Zap Cannon
Charge Beam
Ancientpower
Leaf Storm

all, but AP and CB may be removed.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

GT Aromatherapy should be added to the ones that need voting on, I think enough people dislike it to be worth adding. Sorry I did not say this sooner.

What? I thought everyone was okay with Aromatherapy. I don't remember seeing any disagreements with it.

 

[eric the espeon]

What? I thought everyone was okay with Aromatherapy. I don't remember seeing any disagreements with it.

mm.. i thought a few people disliked it, well i for one don't think it fits that well (only flowery Pokemon and Bliss get it so far, i can kinda see the burning wood thing... but...) and would give this Pokemon even more Tanking ability (Synthesis +Aromatherapy and 2 attacking moves, invulnerable to status and can heal very fast.)
I suppose its not that bad but I'm still not keen on it.

 

[Tauros]

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
Bulk Up
Curse cmon its a total curse-type-pokemon
Swords Dance
Dragon Dance

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
Brick Break why not?
Rock Slide

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
-Yes, as Heart Scale moves we need a pokemon with both =)
-No, Make both of them egg move.

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
Stun Spore
Reflect/Light Screen how the hell does this monster use stun-spore?!

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis/Morning Sun
-No, would be kinda broken

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
Zap Cannon lets be nice to him =)
Charge Beam why not?
Ancientpower
Leaf Storm

 

[OH NO]

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get?
Bulk Up


2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?
Rock Slide

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?
-No, Make both of them egg move.

4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get?
Stun Spore


5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??

-No,

6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?
Zap Cannon
Charge Beam
Ancientpower

__________________

 

[latinoheat]

1. Which, if any, of these Physical stat buffs should our Pokémon get

Dragon Dance
Swords Dance

Cursing+Synthesis with something this bulky and atleast 120 bp stab move is fucking stupid.

2. Which of these two Physical attacks should this Pokémon get?

Neither

3. Should this Pokémon be able to get both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time?

Yes, as Heart Scale moves



4. Which, if any, of these Utilities moves should this Pokémon get

Reflect/Light Screen

5. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??

-Yes, Synthesis/Morning Sun


6. Which, if any, of these Special Attacks should this Pokémon get?

Zap Cannon