The minute I heard of Aegi's ban I immediately though about this guy. Trick room is still usable imo, but I think with only gengar left, some people will want more spin blockers avaliable.Here's a Pokemon that gained a fair amount of utility from Aegislash's removal.
Cofagrigus
Pokedex Number - 563
Type(s) - Ghost
Base Stats - 58 HP / 50 Atk / 145 Def / 95 SAtk / 105 SDef / 30 Spe
General Analysis of Pokemon/Current Roles in OU -
While Cofagrigus was rarely hinder by Aegislash itself, the removal of Aegislash has made Pokemon that Cofa checks and counters far more common as well as naturally increasing Cofa's Spin-Blocking viability. Thanks to the addition of Toxic Spikes to its egg moves in XY, Cofa is one of the 3 fully-evolved Ghost-types to have an entry hazard and one of the very few non-Poison-types to get the move. Mummy, Cofa's signature ability, nullifies foe's abilities on contact; reducing major threats like M-Medicham, M-Mawile, Azumarill, M-Pinsir, Scizor, and Talonflame to much more manageable levels. Cofa's typing allows it to entirely wall M-Heracross, Mummy renders M-Pinsir completely unable to touch Cofagrigus after it activates, M-Medicham arguably struggles more against Cofa than it did Aegislash with no way of hitting Cofa Super Effectively, and Cofa can threaten each with a WoW burn.
Potential Movesets:
Utility
Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic Spikes / Pain Split
- Haze
This set does a little bit of everything; it blocks Rapid Spin, spreads burns, sets up hazards, removes the boosts accumulated by sweepers, and walls various Mega Pokemon. Hazards vs longevity is the big decision for this set. This set fits well on Offensive teams as those can have trouble against M-Heracross, M-Pinsir, Talonflame, and Sand Rush Excadrill while Cofagrigus can stop them from doing anything detrimental. Cofa also doesn't give up a lot of momentum either as it can just Haze boosts away or set hazards of its own which makes KOing it a priority for the opponent. It could work well on stall teams too as it fits nicely into a defensive core of Chansey+Ghost-type+Fighting-type (I'd personally opt for Chesnaught in that core to have 3 types of entry hazards).
Personal Opinion of the Pokemon/Conclusion:
Cofa can make for a decent Trick Room user with Nasty Plot but Trick Room's gimmicky in itself and Sticky Web is a far easier to manage method of playing with speed tiers (which Defensive Cofa can Spin-Block for). Don't bother with Specially Defensive sets to wall Starmie, Dusclops does that better. Toxic Spikes are a lot more reliable than some might think since M-Venusaur and Amoonguss are the only remotely common Pokemon that remove them on switch and is seen almost exclusively on stall and even then some stall teams prefer M-Charizard X over Venusaur. Only use Cofa if you need to Spin-block, Mummy's a very nice perk to have but there are more reliable walls out there.
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Other Aegislash Post-Ban Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Rosen
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I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM
formerly Smog Frog
Staraptor
Pokedex Number - 398
Type(s) - normal/fly
Base Stats - 85 HP / 120 Atk / 70 Def / 50 SAtk / 60 SDef / 100 Spe
Abilities: Intimidate HA: Reckless
General Analysis of Pokemon/Current Roles in OU - This thing turns whatever doesn't resist it's 120 BP reckless boosted attacks(double-edge, suicide bird) into a steaming pile of shit. Even then, if you don't resist close combat, you'll die too. But alas, as with every route 1 bird, it is suicidal. It dies in roughly 3 of its own brave birds, but it typically gets a kill or 2 when suiciding. It also sports a weakness to stealth rock, which doesn't help its suicidal tendencies. But I shit you not when I say Skarmory is bird's only counter.
Potential Movesets
name: suicide bird
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: Double-Edge
move 3: Close Combat
move 4: Facade/U-Turn
ability: Reckless
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Set Description:
Basically, suicide on walls to kill them. Brave Bird is the main event here, alongside Double-Edge, as wall breaking options. Close Combat is there to hit rocks and steels that resist Suicide Nuke moves. I prefer Facade>U-Turn so I can still rek shit even when burned. U-Turn can pick up momentum on obvious Skarmory switches. Adamant Band because most base 100s nowadays aren't running +speed natures. And Adamant Band Staraptor is roughly as strong as Kyurem-Black:
252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 394-465 (97.5 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 364-430 (90 - 106.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
only 7%~ weaker than probably the strongest attacker to ever meet OU with arguably better STABs. Not. Even. Bad.
Personal Opinion of the Pokemon/Conclusion:
Staraptor is too fucking strong, too fucking suicidal, and too fucking fashionable. Seriously, underestimate Staraptor at the cost of no longer having your walls.
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It has 85 HP and 50 Special Attack, just a heads-up.
It still stops you from Defogging (thus doing its job) and will cripple you with Knock Off if you're not speed creeping it.
Jut because it did nothing but suicide doesn't mean it didn't just potentially screw you over. No other Pokemon can actually be useful like that just by dying.
EDIT: Just saw Haunter's post. This is on-topic right?
Zapdos has 2 ways to go in a situation like that.
1. Kill Bisharp on the obvious switch with Heatwave and Defog afterwards. Thats the best way if the opponent has nothing to ohko Zapdos afterwards. If he has something to ohko then you have to decide how badly you want those hazards gone, if you dont mind them staying a little longer, switch out and defog later if not then
2. Defog, let Bisharp get his +2 and then kill it with Heatwave. Every good Zapdos set is tailored to outspeed Bisharp and +2 Sucker Punch does not always ohko (about 50% after lefties and SR) so you can either bet on surviving it or play the 50/50 game, in any case even if Bisharp kills Zapdos with Sucher Punch he will just get killed afterwards by Keldeo or one of his other counters.
In both cases Bisharp dies in vein. The opponent can always remove the hazards AND Bisharp if he wants to if he lets them stay that means the hazards dont affect him that much and sacrificing Bisharp to keep them on the field was probably not worth it.
1. Kill Bisharp on the obvious switch with Heatwave and Defog afterwards. Thats the best way if the opponent has nothing to ohko Zapdos afterwards. If he has something to ohko then you have to decide how badly you want those hazards gone, if you dont mind them staying a little longer, switch out and defog later if not then
2. Defog, let Bisharp get his +2 and then kill it with Heatwave. Every good Zapdos set is tailored to outspeed Bisharp and +2 Sucker Punch does not always ohko (about 50% after lefties and SR) so you can either bet on surviving it or play the 50/50 game, in any case even if Bisharp kills Zapdos with Sucher Punch he will just get killed afterwards by Keldeo or one of his other counters.
In both cases Bisharp dies in vein. The opponent can always remove the hazards AND Bisharp if he wants to if he lets them stay that means the hazards dont affect him that much and sacrificing Bisharp to keep them on the field was probably not worth it.
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xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
What he meant was that they could come in with a free switch and do that.
There is another counter that is looking to be on the rise, especially for more Stall oriented teams, and that's Aegislash's little brother, Doublade. Of those moves, only Brave Bird and U-turn even hit the little ghost sword. Even then, Brave Bird is only doing 22.3 - 26.7% to 240 HP / 96 Def / 172 SpD Relaxed Doublade (the spread I currently run), and only 20.4 - 24.2% to 240 HP / 236 Def / 32 SpD Relaxed, one of the most physically defensive spreads. Doublade can then hit back with Gyro Ball for 39.4 - 46.4% or Iron Head for 40.3 - 47.4%. Doublade also has the added bonus of stopping a lot rising threats after Aegis' ban, including Mega Gardevoir, Heracross, and Medicham, all of whom pretty much just tickle Doublade if they don't pack the coverage move they need.
Staraptor
Pokedex Number - 398
Type(s) - normal/fly
Base Stats - 85 HP / 120 Atk / 70 Def / 50 SAtk / 60 SDef / 100 Spe
Abilities: Intimidate HA: Reckless
General Analysis of Pokemon/Current Roles in OU - This thing turns whatever doesn't resist it's 120 BP reckless boosted attacks(double-edge, suicide bird) into a steaming pile of shit. Even then, if you don't resist close combat, you'll die too. But alas, as with every route 1 bird, it is suicidal. It dies in roughly 3 of its own brave birds, but it typically gets a kill or 2 when suiciding. It also sports a weakness to stealth rock, which doesn't help its suicidal tendencies. But I shit you not when I say Skarmory is bird's only counter.
...
I've been giving Doublade a whirl for a couple battles, and it's surprisingly good as a wall with a good bit of "oomph" to it. So far I have found Iron Head to be more useful than Gyro Ball because a lot of your Steel-type move targets are slower things like Clefable, Sylveon, and Azumarill. Anything more than 215 Speed though, and Gyro Ball does more.
This has been fun Doublade facts with Seth.
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Usage =/= Viabilty, and Mandibuzz is still a great alternative to Skarmory since it's bulkier on both ends.
I've tested Mandibuzz a lot since the ban, it's still good and it still has some good reasons to use it over Skarm on balance. It's still a very good bird spam check/counter as all the birds are OHKO'd by Foul Play and it doesn't have to fear Flare Blitz like Skarm does. It's still one of the best defoggers too as it can defog against the vast majority of SR setters. It can revenge Azumaril after a Belly Drum, and with prior damage it also revenges +2 Mawile. While it doesn't exactly hard counter a specific threat that other physical walls can't anymore (standard Aegislash), it's still a good general purpose wall and hazard remover. I've still seen it a bit around the 1700 mark, but it obviously has become a lot less common now that Aegi is gone.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 192-226 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
A lot of Pokemon are going to gain a higher usage now that Aegislash is gone. I still think Ghosts are going to be a good typing to have on any team. Trevenant is probably going to get a lot more usage, actually. It has a pretty good typing, has some obnoxious builds that are hard to kill, and has Will-o-Wisp, which isn't too bad a replacement for King's Shield. It also has some decent attack stats, too, giving it a VERY good Shadow Claw, and it would have Horn Leach for recovery on Attack Builds.
I still think that the problem with Aegislash being banned is that there is a huge power vacuum in OU now, and A LOT of other Pokemon are going to be in danger of being suspect tested now. That is the only disappointment, really. :(
I still think that the problem with Aegislash being banned is that there is a huge power vacuum in OU now, and A LOT of other Pokemon are going to be in danger of being suspect tested now. That is the only disappointment, really. :(
Trevenant always sucked. It's not very bulky (Keldeo is bulkier), it's crippled by Knock Off since it's dependent on its item, and it's one of the biggest pieces Zard X/Talonflame set-up bait in existence.
The biggest piece of Zard X/Tflame set-up bait has 110 Attack and learns Rock Slide and Earthquake. Have fun setting up. 252+ Atk Trevenant Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 194-230 (65.1 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ Atk Trevenant Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 194-230 (53.8 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ Atk Trevenant Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 424-500 (142.2 - 167.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Since my post needs more 'substance', i might as well get straight to the point: i believe thunderbolt is the safest option over predicting between azumarill staying in and bisharp switching in.
0 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 157-186 (57.7 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 157-186 (47 - 55.6%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO
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0 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 188-224 (46.5 - 55.4%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO
In both situations zapdos can just slam both of them with tbolt and nab a high chance of 2ko, and that's uninvested spatk, which is quite literally the worst scenario for zapdos to be facing - bulky azu and sharp. So why bother risking defog on a possible bisharp switch in, and why bother risking heat wave on a possible azumarill stay-in when thunderbolt is clearly the superior option? Unless you're so hard-pressed to defog you should be real comfortable with dealin with these pair.
Unless you're talking about aegislash over bisharp in which heat wave and defog are superior over tbolt.
Heck the calcs dont even take rocks into consideration, using azumarill as an example was just plain stupid
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Not sure where else to put this, since there's not really a "general metagame discussion thread," but the information I have is fairly relevant upon ORAS' release.
Mega Salamence is confirmed from the latest CoroCoro leak. It gets Aerilate. Mega Altaria is also confirmed. It gets Pixilate. Fuckin' Mega Lopunny is confirmed. It get Scrappy. Discuss.
Mega Salamence is confirmed from the latest CoroCoro leak. It gets Aerilate. Mega Altaria is also confirmed. It gets Pixilate. Fuckin' Mega Lopunny is confirmed. It get Scrappy. Discuss.
Saw it, bunny's dual stabs now also fuck sableye in the face, also wrong time for it since aegislash left already lol
Edit: mega salamence will 100% likely be ubers while altaria will be solid ou (since it is confirmed to have a massive gain in special attack)
Mega Salamence seems insane to face. Flying is already a difficult type to switch into as Bird Spam has shown and Mence will only make the playstyle better. With Mence having a pre-Mega ability in intimidate will allow for excellent set up opportunities with Dragon Dance. We'll just have to see how they distribute its stats as that could definitely be a make or break situation, but in any case I believe it'll be OU viable.
Wow, so now stall's gonna be a lot, lot easier c:
Anyway, another pokemon I see rising in popularity due to no aegislash is this-
Shiva (Medicham-Mega) @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Thunder Punch
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
Over here a majority of the discussion was devoted to how mega medicham could play around aegislash, and one of them was forcing it to run one of the lesser seen elemental punches, Fire punch. Sure, with thunderpunch, medicham is going to miss OHKOing scizor and ferrothorn, but not so much since it 2HKO's with HJK anyway. It also isn't walled by the lesser-seen slowbro. Since this is a substitute set, this is the only instance where I feel drain punch is a viable option over HJK as I'll want to make as many substitutes as possible whenever I can.
Anyway, another pokemon I see rising in popularity due to no aegislash is this-
Shiva (Medicham-Mega) @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Thunder Punch
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
Over here a majority of the discussion was devoted to how mega medicham could play around aegislash, and one of them was forcing it to run one of the lesser seen elemental punches, Fire punch. Sure, with thunderpunch, medicham is going to miss OHKOing scizor and ferrothorn, but not so much since it 2HKO's with HJK anyway. It also isn't walled by the lesser-seen slowbro. Since this is a substitute set, this is the only instance where I feel drain punch is a viable option over HJK as I'll want to make as many substitutes as possible whenever I can.
Inb4 deletion seeing this is smogon, but discussion about newly released pokemon (by a competitive aspect or not) should be in the orange islands forum, right? Specifically, maybe here.
Mega-mence seems like it's going to be nearly strictly better than Pinsir;
- Has coverage moves like Fire Blast to easily get past its would-be counters like Skarmory, whereas Pinsir has practically nothing.
- A setup move which boosts speed to make it much better against offense.
- A better defensive typing which gives him neutrality to electric (which Bird Spam will appreciate) and resisting fire and water for switch-in opportunities.
- Better bulk.
- A reliable recovery move for added set flexibility.
- A more usable secondary STAB.
- A better pre-evo ability, giving it easier setup and switch-in opportunities.
- Only 2x SR weak as opposed to 4x after evo, allowing him to switch out much less painfully than Pinsir.
So Bird Spam gets an upgraded toy and offense/balance has a new DD sweeper to choose from which looks to be as good as the other premier DD sweepers such as Char-X, T-Tar and Gyara.
Fckn yeah, Starmie's the tits
Edit: holy shit wait, if Mega Lopunny gets HJK + Scrappy -- maybe our Aegislash problem is solved for good... I predict many suspect tests in our future...
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I havent mentioned Azumarill anywhere in my post. Ofc you go for tbolt if your up against Azu, the fact that Bisharp is 2hkoed by Tbolt is one of the reasons why i usually use toxic on Zapdos instead of Heatwave. You should read the posts you quote.
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