PAWMOTPawmot
PAWMOTPawmot
pawmotPAWMOT
Brother, B Rank is perfectly fine.wochien at b rank is an absolute travesty
I thought the same thing after seeing Vikavolt usage in HOME when the DLC dropped. I would imagine Levitate + super STAB mono electric typing with Tera is the main reason. Its a shame its ass tier slow.Idk if it's much better than B rank, but shouldn't it generally be a better pick than Vikavolt? Not sure why that's above it. Webs are cool I guess, on something that has stats.
she put that ass to sleep :(Been seeing alot of sneasler in top 1k =]
Sneasler's highest finish last season was at 97th. Its definitely stuck around in terms of competitive and general usage but I think its current ranking is fairly appropriate given its polarizing attributes.Been seeing alot of sneasler in top 1k =]
I dont think theres anything wrong with asking but before that remember that if something isnt ranked that doesnt mean it cant perform under the current metagame, but theres no enough usage to judge, a lot of talk about these underused mons are just theorycrafting, which is hard to put in a ranking list before testing it if they have some value.Is it ok to ask why something is not here, even if I'm not going to nominate it?
Ok. The 2 I'm curious about are Chandelure(was ranked last gen, tera seems fairly kind to it idk. Good into oger-h w/o knock off. Kinda bad vs DNIite, Urshifus, etc, so I can see it going either way. Flash Fire is pretty neat, as are the other 2 abilities even,) and Krookodile(Seems ok, stat-wise good HP, Atk, fair Spe. W/ Intimidate and the HP makes good def, SpD is dubious, bu AV is not unuseable imo unless SR. I have it for Counter mainly, so it can take a CC and use that w/ intimidate. Also kinda tough on DNite what I needed.) Then also maybe Noivern(was ranked before, though maybe 7 only, not 8 idk. Infiltrator is good, or rely on just Boomburst for Sub and frisk 'em, maybe for trick choice.)I dont think theres anything wrong with asking but before that remember that if something isnt ranked that doesnt mean it cant perform under the current metagame, but theres no enough usage to judge, a lot of talk about these underused mons are just theorycrafting, which is hard to put in a ranking list before testing it if they have some value.
Another big factor with a lot of unranked mons is that theyre just Pokemon that get outclassed by other mons on this list, a quick example can be Tatsugiri, is a pokemon that doesnt see usage in singles, his ability storm drain is pretty useful cuz it checks Urshifu Rapid Strike spamming surging strikes but considering theres other dragons in store like Dragonite (multiscale + super effective stab against it), H-Goodra (shell armor) and even Dragapult (will o wisp and ghost typing) that can check Urshifu but can also do more than just that, theres no reason to use Tatsugiri other than because you like it.
That's a great point. We don't copy usage data completely ofc, but it's the main guidelines I guessA good thing to remember about the VR is that we tend to rank things that have proven to be at some level of viability in the metagame. Theoretical viability can be discussed and is sometimes taken into account but generally we try to only rank stuff that has proven results in what it does. It’s easier to both maintain and digest if we stick to what is proven.
On ttar it: denies a tales veil setup, sets up spD scenario for stone mask to sweep, sets rocks, and tanks luna bm.I've got some potential shifts to share, but I think for this particular round a little more context is needed.
First off, the drops and rises I am advocating for thin out the higher tiers a bit more. Part of this is because I think that the meta for this regulation has become more centralized: the gap between the top and bottom has widened considerably. Looking at how we have the tiers set up right now, I think that gap roughly translates to the space between the A and B tiers. There is still a lot of creativity in the teams dominating high ladder, but this is translating more to how Terastallization is utilized on top picks than how niche mons are being represented.
For that reason, ranking things in B tier at this point feels a lot more foggy. Besides general usage, I also based whether or not to shift something on:
That out of the way, here are my proposed shifts:
- How does the mon interact with S tier threats?
- For lesser mons, is their niche relevant and/or unique?
(Rapid) Drop from S+ to S
This shift is more motivated by the fact that Flutter Mane and Dragonite are just in a league of their own when it comes to meta-defining traits, set variety and teambuilding pressure. Urshifu-R is still amazing, but it doesn't cause nearly the fits that Mane and Dragonite cause across the board. This change was originally proposed by Psynergy, and I agree with it.
Drop from A to B+
Drop from A- to B+
These two are a bit of an anomaly because they sit in or just outside of the top 30 in usage. The problem here is that their high ladder usage has effectively collapsed.
Heatran has been overtaken by Hearthflame as the premier Steel-killer, not to mention Hearthflame's Mold Breaker let its counter Heatran. Even as a more defensive switch-in to something like Flutter Mane, it does not like the trend of bulky T-Wave Mane and cannot cushion those nearly as well.
Baxcalibur had some early hype as a sweeping complement to Ninetales-A, but that has not lasted. Ninetales-A continues to see strong usage but there are simply better things out there to pair with it than going double Ice-type. It's been usurped in the sense that its niche as a bulky Snow sweeper just wasn't that incredible to begin with. It did get Scale Shot, but top dogs Dragonite, Roaring Moon and Garchomp have simply done it better.
Given their usage is still relatively high, I think B+ is appropriate.
Drop from A to A-
Wellspring has found a niche as a stall killer and decent Bloodmoon check, but Cornerstone's niche as a Sturdy face-to-face mon hasn't been as in demand. It doesn't help that it has to directly compete with Hearthflame and Wellspring for usage. I think its toolset is still valid in such a face-to-face dominant meta, but a small drop is fitting here given these facts and its high ladder usage.
Drop from A- to B+
Rise from B- to B+
Putting these two together because their most dominant niches are shared: Trick Room.
Cresselia usage has actually taken a significant dip, while Scream Tail has been rising since Season 11. I don't think I'd want to drop Cresselia farther than B+, but that's why I'm also raising Scream Tail multiple levels since it actually has higher usage over Cresselia. For now, put them on the same level.
Drop from B+ to B
Taunt Mane, Scale Shot Dragonite, Surging Strikes Urshifu, Hyper Voice Bloodmoon... this thing has an interesting niche, but its one that can get countered near effortlessly by typical high ladder play.
Drop from B+ to B
Teal Mask had some usage in Season 11 but has fallen off of what little it had when I look at Season 12. Like Cornerstone its a victim of sharing the same slot as the other masks, but I still think the drop is justified given how much lower used it is compared to the other three. No top finishes for Season 12 that I saw either.
Drop from B to B-
There are simply better users of SR and Yawn, and it just doesn't have the tools to go head-to-head with the top dogs with any consistency. Another mon whose usage has collapsed towards the 70th to 80th usage range.
Drop from B to B-
The Webs niche just hasn't been good and it has also fallen substantially in usage. Even though it is immune to paralysis, it just doesn't have many killer matchups... if it has any at all.
Rise from A to A+
Top 10 in usage now. In short, its got great late-game cleaning potential and has enough offensive and utility options that it can keep you guessing. Thing really got Knock Off and never looked back, huh?
Rise from B to B+
A bit of an anomaly, but apparently its seeing some usage, and emphasis on "some." Belly Drum is still niche and the right support is needed, but an Azumarill with Stealth Rock down can hit some nice knockouts against the likes of Ogerpon-H, Chien-Pao and Bloodmoon. Still niche, but its overall usage is hard to ignore so a small bump seems appropriate.
Rise from C+ to B
Amoonguss is another old staple that apparently refuses to die. Not much has changed here: Spore, Leaf Storm Eject Pack and Foul Play are all still excellent, and Foul Play in particular is what prevents it from becoming total setup bait against Ogerpon-H (assuming it is willing to Tera.) Overall usage is still middling but its got some results at higher ladder, so it needs a big boost.
Rise from UR to C+
Yeah, so... what does this thing do? I really don't know. It certainly hasn't been hanging around high ladder much. But I can tell you its in the top 50 usage! Probably getting carried by old popularity a bit like Heatran and Bax were. But honestly, this just boils down to the fact that its been in the top 50 usage for the last two seasons. That's kinda hard to ignore now that I see it, so... let's just throw it a bone, shall we?
wow ty mr. I love my Frosmoth, and will work hard to make her as good or better as the other guy's. Maybe more than C can come of this. I agree w/ all, though from own use wary of rising Azu but idk. At this time not completely willing to nom any of my other mons...well. Idk, tbh Mandibuzz is kinda awesome too. Really though I'm happy just to see activity, and more to get one mon. Maybe people oughta think about Mandi, but it's np for me either way.Hi, last update before the DLC drops and inevitably shakes things up because I don't trust Game Freak to not accidentally allow the new Tera type to be legal day 1. Ultimately there wasn't a whole lot of discussion with the new DLC being on everyone's minds, but Photon's post more or less laid the groundwork for the current update so honestly I don't think there's much that needs to be said that he hasn't already proposed.
Tyranitar is actually going to B- just because the aforementioned matchups against Alolan Ninetales and Ursaluna-BM are a tad better than just C+ I think. Additionally Iron Hands is going up to B+ as recent placements have highlighted how useful it is having a physically bulky Pokemon that isn't weak to Ogerpon or Chien-Pao, particularly with Drain Punch in the mix. Sylveon is also rejoining the list in the C ranks as yet another low rank Pokemon that is used for its matchup into Ursaluna-BM, and one high ranking team in particular noted its synergy with the aforementioned Iron Hands.
Frosmoth is also joining the list, this one actually had a mention in discussion due to a top 100 finish again because MAGICO made it work again. This ultimately highlighted to me that if we're ranking Maushold and Polteageist largely because of one guy getting high ranking finishes with them, Frosmoth is worth of a rank just as much as the mice. The reason it hadn't been ranked before is because Frosmoth doesn't make the cut every month and MAGICO himself says it's more of a pet pick that doesn't always see a lot of use, so none of us were particularly convinced to rank it in the past. However, the matchup against Iron Bundle is certainly a point in its favor so I think that is worth at least a mention, I favor C over C- for that reason alone.
One last thing I want to point out before we possibly get ready for the new DLC Pokemon though. As Photon pointed out, this Regulation E metagame has been more centralized than previous ones, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the next ruleset follow similarly. As a result, I think it becomes more important that we're mindful nominations for Pokemon that are less relevant threats. Being perfectly honest, I like recognizing the usefulness of less common Pokemon but naturally we are less concerned about whether Palafin is C or C+ than we are about whether Chi-Yu is A+ or A. The goal of the VR is ultimately to present a picture of what we think the metagame looks like, and to that end we're obviously going to give more thought to the stuff at the top than random nichemons at the bottom.
This is not me saying to stop nominating these low usage Pokemon because to me, one of the strengths of BSS is how conducive the format is towards making less meta stuff work. But don't be surprised if a nom for a low usage Pokemon doesn't make the cut. That doesn't mean we don't think it's worth consideration, it just means we didn't have enough of an opinion to discuss or rank it.
Drops:
(Rapid) Drop from S to S-
Drop from A to B+
Drop from A- to B+
Drop from A to A-
Drop from A- to B+
Drop from B+ to B
Drop from B+ to B
Drop from B to B-
Drop from B to B-
Rises:
Rise from B- to B+
Rise from A to A+
Rise from B to B+
Rise from C+ to B
Rise from B- to B+
Rise from UR to B-
Rise from UR to C+
Rise from UR to C