pokemonisfun
Banned deucer.
My thoughts on the nominations - keeping in mind I'm a lame stall player whose experience with these mons is me using them from other people's teams
Moltres: C+ rank is fine. I definitely think ChrystalFalchion way oversold Moltres; not mentioning for instance Moltres' second biggest problem - accuracy. But C+ still fits because we have other barely usable mons in this tier such as Uxie and Weezing.
Florges: A- rank is fine so is B+ honestly and I wouldn't mind if it dropped to D rank. To me its a worse Sylveon unless you're using CM Synthesis or Wish Synthesis but Sylveon has a much more viable Specs set. I just don't know how you people want to tier. As in lets say Mega Rayquaza dropped and was not quick banned for whatever reason. Obvious S rank. But what if the next day game freak released Mega Rayquaza 2.0 and it had 1 more base speed - so its almost always better than Mega Ray 1.0.? Does Mega Ray 1.0 drop to D because its basically outclassed or does it stay S because its obviously super overpowered still? If this question is answered I think it would make the Florges ranking a bit easier - although unlike my hypothetical yes I am aware Florges can run some sets better than Sylveon, just not many.
Umbreon: B- rank is fine, I made a post in the last thread.
Nidoking: I think it should always stay below Nidoqueen for reasons that have been outlined. But I wouldn't mind it rising to the same tier as Nidoqueen as long as it stays below her because they are quite similar. I think the reason why Nidoking should stay in B+ compared to Nidoqueen's A- is that Nidoqueen can run a successful defensive set in addition to an offensive set while Nidoking can only run offense.
Celebi: S rank for Celebi for sure; the most important nomination in terms of how we view the metagame, Celebi definitely deserves S rank. It has nearly everything going for it - extremely high bulk for an offensive Pokemon, probably only below Mega Swampert off the top of my head and extreme versatility and even power after a boost. It has literally no counter in the tier because its amazing coverage - Dark types sadly tend to be weak to Grass in this tier or otherwise cannot beat Celebi. The biggest (only?) issue Celebi has is its large amount of weaknesses but that is difficult to take advantage of for the before mentioned Dark type problem and Crobat and Beedrill fearing Psychic STAB moves (as well as boosted Sucker Punches). To be fair though I would say its defensive sets are overrated - particularly with Perish Song. It might seem like a good phazer beating Suicune, but because of Perish Song's low PP and Pressure, Celebi cannot be your only answer to Suicune and Snorlax and Reuniclus which is a bit unfortunate.
To me what pushes Celebi in S rank territory is 1) lack of counters 2) BP changes games too quickly. Honestly the defensive sets are irrelevant or very insignificant compared to the power Celebi can hold.
Cresselia: A rank I agree, it counters so much and can sweep. It has the potential to counter some Krookodile and Hydreigon sets which is just ridiculous, its only problems are a weakness to status/bad recovery in general, low power and iffy defensive typing.
Moltres: C+ rank is fine. I definitely think ChrystalFalchion way oversold Moltres; not mentioning for instance Moltres' second biggest problem - accuracy. But C+ still fits because we have other barely usable mons in this tier such as Uxie and Weezing.
Florges: A- rank is fine so is B+ honestly and I wouldn't mind if it dropped to D rank. To me its a worse Sylveon unless you're using CM Synthesis or Wish Synthesis but Sylveon has a much more viable Specs set. I just don't know how you people want to tier. As in lets say Mega Rayquaza dropped and was not quick banned for whatever reason. Obvious S rank. But what if the next day game freak released Mega Rayquaza 2.0 and it had 1 more base speed - so its almost always better than Mega Ray 1.0.? Does Mega Ray 1.0 drop to D because its basically outclassed or does it stay S because its obviously super overpowered still? If this question is answered I think it would make the Florges ranking a bit easier - although unlike my hypothetical yes I am aware Florges can run some sets better than Sylveon, just not many.
Umbreon: B- rank is fine, I made a post in the last thread.
Nidoking: I think it should always stay below Nidoqueen for reasons that have been outlined. But I wouldn't mind it rising to the same tier as Nidoqueen as long as it stays below her because they are quite similar. I think the reason why Nidoking should stay in B+ compared to Nidoqueen's A- is that Nidoqueen can run a successful defensive set in addition to an offensive set while Nidoking can only run offense.
Celebi: S rank for Celebi for sure; the most important nomination in terms of how we view the metagame, Celebi definitely deserves S rank. It has nearly everything going for it - extremely high bulk for an offensive Pokemon, probably only below Mega Swampert off the top of my head and extreme versatility and even power after a boost. It has literally no counter in the tier because its amazing coverage - Dark types sadly tend to be weak to Grass in this tier or otherwise cannot beat Celebi. The biggest (only?) issue Celebi has is its large amount of weaknesses but that is difficult to take advantage of for the before mentioned Dark type problem and Crobat and Beedrill fearing Psychic STAB moves (as well as boosted Sucker Punches). To be fair though I would say its defensive sets are overrated - particularly with Perish Song. It might seem like a good phazer beating Suicune, but because of Perish Song's low PP and Pressure, Celebi cannot be your only answer to Suicune and Snorlax and Reuniclus which is a bit unfortunate.
To me what pushes Celebi in S rank territory is 1) lack of counters 2) BP changes games too quickly. Honestly the defensive sets are irrelevant or very insignificant compared to the power Celebi can hold.
Cresselia: A rank I agree, it counters so much and can sweep. It has the potential to counter some Krookodile and Hydreigon sets which is just ridiculous, its only problems are a weakness to status/bad recovery in general, low power and iffy defensive typing.