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Approved by Molk
OP stolen from Mazz
Taken from HotnCold
RESEARCH WEEK #5
Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, movepool, and typing and think something up!
Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and / or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.
A few things to clarify:
Early period means the first three days of the research week, so let's keep the theorymoning to a minimum after. The late period refers to the last four days of the research week, where raw evidence and discussion should become the basis of the thread.
Sign-Ups close Wednesday night, so be sure to sign up before they close!
You must post a ladder ranking in order to win.
This Week's Research Pokemon:
Spoopy Skellington | Spoopy Skellington | Spoopy Skellington
How useful are these Pokemon in XY RU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #rarelyused as well!
The Research Group Challenge:
In order to participate you must do the following:
Post here with a fresh alt and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us!
Remember to submit your ranking!
The first stage of the challenge will be very relaxed so theorymon will be allowed as long as its backed up by good reasoning. During the later stage, discussion will be expected to be backed up by hard evidence, such as teams, actual sets, and logs. The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown RU ladder on the alt they registered at the time the challenge ends. Prizes are currently being discussed with higher powers, so hang tight while I find something worth your guys' attention.
I doubt I'm going to play anymore games before Sunday, so that is how I did. I played Tauros on a HO team with hazard lead Omastar, it worked decently as a late game cleaner, especially with all the hazard damage. I kept on switching between Ice Beam and Fire Blast on Tauros, eventually I dropped Earthquake and opted for both as despite hitting certain Pokemon for less damage it improved Tauros's general match-ups. Zoroark was pretty useful for hitting Ghost-types with Knock Off on switch ins, and then either weakening them to the point that Tauros could KO them or KOing them with Pursuit as they try to switch out. I tried out Work Up on Tauros earlier on in the week, but the loss of coverage was pretty noticeable, and generally didn't actually help Tauros to clean up.
Even tho he hasn't officially submitted his rank the winner of this week is The Leprechaun!
The problem is that i haven't seen any post from him (or almost anybody else bar chenkovsky) and i think that the main purpose of this is to promote discussion.
I have to decide one mon for the next week but week 6 will be up soon. Thanks for partecipating!
Yeah i used a similar set to galbia but ddn't invest in attack. invested all in hp and speed meaning that it was both very easy to set up SDs and retain the speed necessary for sweeping. Although it wasn't always sweeping, it often did a good job supporting the the team with it's surprisingly good bulk, deceptively good defensive typing, decent power and useful moves in aerial ace (flying STAB is really good right now) and knock off. Its ability to wreck common regen cores of tangrowth/amoonguss + slowking was a real boon and made winning very easy at a lot of points.
To support it, i used a few of things to make it's life easier. One being a toxic doublade which really helped to wear down checks such as rhyperior and alomomola. This often helped the team out a lot and a couple of times i got some good sweeps. Just a small note about toxic doublade, one of the reasons it was so successful is because the best cleric in the tier: aromatisse, will never beat blade one on one. The other mon that i used to support scyther was lum sd kabutops. Lum tops is another mon that can smash through potential counters to scyther like alom and rhyp as well as finding it really easy to spin, a very under-rated mon atm. Finally, LO jolteon was a fantastic partner as well. Not only does it provide really nice set-up opportunities when it volt switches out on grass types or other weak special walls (aromatisse, registeel) but it's another mon that completely shits on scyther's counters with either hp grass or tbolt/volt switch.
Overall I'd say Scyther is really very under rated at the moment and given the right support (which is fairly easy to provide) Scyther can do a lot of damage to all team archetypes, whether it be setting up on stall with a bulky sd set, smashing offence with fast and powerful u-turns from a banded set or even providing a win condition in agility/swords dance pass. I truly believe it should jump up in usage and the viability rankings in coming days/weeks.
So right before Molk locks this thread gonna post a little bit about Tauros. (asked Galbia and he said it was okay)
I havent actually used Tauros in the RU meta game but I think that the things that hurt it in NU also apply to RU. And from my experience with it in NU one of the biggest drawbacks is that it doesnt have a better move to abuse sheer force with. The best move that tauros gets is rock climb, and while it hits hard, it misses way to much for my taste (especially when it is critical that you hit). One thing I have seen run to make up for this is a second stab move in return. The point of return is that it also hits decently hard not as hard as rock climb but it is 100% accurate and you can get the kill when it is absolutely critical. Example calcs randomly against Obama cuz first mon on the calc.
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 263-309 (68.4 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tauros Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 230-270 (59.8 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As you can see its about a 10% difference in damage which in situations that the 10% doesnt matter it is safer to get the kill than risk the miss.
Now ofc you need to fill the other two moves for Tauros and there is a wide variety of coverage that you might want to try and get, from fire blast to iron head. Each one hits something differently for SE damage, so its pretty much up to the user to decide what they want to cover. Now a super popular option is Earthquake and while it doesnt get a boost from Sheer Force it still hits the things that Tauros's normal type moves cant hit for SE. So as far as coverage goes it is an awesome option. Fire Blast is another one that allows Tauros to hit things hard like Doublade on the special side for SE damage, and while tauros has pitiful special attack the +s from fire blast's BP and LO and Sheer Force boost make up for it.
Tauros (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Return/Iron Head/Fire Blast
- Rock Slide/Zen Headbutt
- Rock Climb
(Pls note on this set that all moves are interchangeable and for someone making a set I would say to at least have EQ and Rock Climb on your set)
Return: Good to have as a second stab for when you can't miss. (Unfortunately this move does not get a boost from Sheer Force) Just going to add on to here that you can use Facade over Return if you want to fodder it for Will-o-wisp fodder, or t-spikes seem to be fairly common these days.
Fire Blast: Hits walls like Doublade, Tangrowth (not AV), Durant most commonly. It is also important to note with Fire Blast that sometimes even though it is super effective it will do less than rock climb or another physical coverage move. (Also important to note if you do use Fire Blast to run a Naive nature and invest the 4 extra points in SpA.)
Rock Slide: This is a good coverage move to have to hit flying types hard. It is able to take advantage of Sheer Force as well, it also completely obliterates Yanmega.
Iron Head: Iron head is good coverage to have for Aromatisse. (Will also post the difference between EQ and Iron Head on Rhyperior if I have time)
Zen Headbutt: Zen Headbutt is good coverage for stuff like Amoongus and Fighting types like Gurdurr, Rock climb kills Lee iirc
Earthquake: Earthquake provides good coverage for things Steel/Rock to hit them Super Effectively while Tauros's Normal STAB can not. (Unfortunately this move does not get a boost from Sheer Force)
The Difference between Return and Rock Climb
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aromatisse: 273-321 (67.2 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Tauros Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aromatisse: 238-281 (58.6 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Relevant Fire Blast Calcs and comparisons to a physical move
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 156-185 (48.4 - 57.4%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tauros Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 112-133 (34.7 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 153-182 (37.8 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tangrowth: 231-273 (57.1 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 129-152 (31.9 - 37.6%) -- 88.1% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 172-203 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tauros Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 114-135 (33.1 - 39.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Durant: 473-562 (183.3 - 217.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tauros Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Durant: 108-127 (41.8 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Rock Slide relevant calcs
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 530-624 (168.7 - 198.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Braviary: 294-348 (86.2 - 102%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Moltres: 504-598 (157 - 186.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Iron Head Calcs and a comparison vs EQ against rock types
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aromatisse: 322-382 (79.3 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Togetic: 190-224 (60.5 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 148-175 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- 44.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Tauros Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 142-168 (32.7 - 38.7%) -- 4.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Zen Headbutt calcs
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Gurdurr: 190-224 (50.8 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Amoonguss: 330-390 (76.3 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
(yes pretty much any physical move you throw against Lee will kill it)
EQ calcs
252 Atk Life Orb Tauros Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Registeel: 166-198 (45.6 - 54.3%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Tauros Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 190-226 (58.6 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
With a base speed of 110 and access to a wide variety of coverage moves Tauros can be a very viable revenge killer/sweeper on your team. With a little bit of prediction Tauros can nab the 2HKO on some very scary threats and would be a great addition to any RU team.
GIVE TAUROS A BETTER STAB MOVE FOR SHEER FORCE GDI!!!!!!!
