I'll preface my report by saying that by lmitchell0012 posted in the Simple Questions, Simple Answer forums looking for a cloner:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...here-no-hacking.3505194/page-301#post-5472191 .
I was happy to help and usually as per how I do trades in my thread, for cloning I don't ask for anything usually other than possible redis on the cloned 'mons.
I posted on lmitchell0012 profile, first comment on there currently, saying I'd be happy to help (also not really expecting payment):
http://www.smogon.com/forums/members/lmitchell0012.46928/
He responded on my profile, first comment section on there currently:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/members/lady-valkyrie.186683/
Things went fairly smoothly until I would say he asked me, "
This is off topic, but are you able to check the shiny values of eggs, by chance?".
I am, and by my thread rules I usually do this at no additional cost to the person. Only if I'm interested in something I can possibly hatch the Egg, back up a save, and the person still gets their Egg back while I get a copy.
He ended up sending over quite a lot of Eggs though, like around a box or so. Which is way more than I would usually do although I didn't state that I'd rather only take a few. I also only have a few "fodder" mons, or Pokemon I keep around for trading as they're not worth much to me and if I lose them it doesn't matter. Some people do send collateral though as other users have to trust them with quite a lot of Eggs.
Seeing as I was sent so many Eggs I did dip into some of my breeding parents/things I would prefer to keep, nothing too serious though. I could have possibly gone and caught some more "fodder" mons but I didn't think twice about trading him my less valueable 'mons (but still ones I would like back).
He asks me as he's trading me the Eggs, "I'm just curious what kind of scatterbugs are these? Like what region are they from I mean."
I respond with,
"I have the River pattern. You can take one if you'd like :). They should be mostly perfect, like 4IVs."
Scatterbugs were what I would consider my "junk" 'mons as I was just going to Wonder Trade my rejects as I already have heaps of spitbacks there so he was welcome to have one.
I have his Shinies he wants clones of along with his Eggs but I start checking the Eggs for ESVs first and their spreads. Eventually we get to trading back his first lot of Eggs. I didn't expect there to be this many Eggs but I saw no harm in doing some more as there could be flawless 'mons I don't have and wouldn't mind a copy of if I was allowed to keep one.
We have a lot of disconnection errors trading back, I'm not sure if this was the server or his internet because my net didn't drop out at all (only once later one in the trade but my whole net went down, I saw the router's light go red). He says it was not his net either. But these weren't just regular disconnects either, the 3DS would have to be completely restarted to come back on.
I have never had something like that happen before, or anywhere near as many disconnects as what happened in the trading with lmitchell0012. I know disconnect through trade can also be used as a cloning method, and seeing as he was sending me back duplicates later on in our trade, I have reason to believe he could have been attempting to clone my Pokemon this way.
I did have to go out shortly after at the time so I said:
"No problem. I just realized I need to something. So after this box I may need to go. Can I do the cloning later (I can return those two with the Eggs)?"
So I was happy to either keep his Shinies on me to clone later or return them when we trading back the last of his Eggs.
He says that's fine:
"Yea that's fine. I was planning on EV training that fletchling tonight but I guess I'll do it tomorrow."
We start trading back for his Eggs but I notice some of the Pokemon he is sending me back are not mine. Usually I wouldn't mind but I didn't entriely send fodder 'mons here so I would prefer to get them all back. I make sure he knows this:
"Okay, so I'll keep the fletchling/clauncher on me? (his shinies he wants cloned)
Also, can you make sure you return all the 'mons I sent over?"
Next he says:
"Yea. I'd like to use a couple of them for breeding, if that's alright."
I do not feel this was right for him to ask of. He did not send some of my Pokemon back first when we were trading back and then says he would like to use them for breeding. I said he could take a Scatterbug but nothing more. It doesn't bother me someone would want to use my Pokemon for breeding but I'm already providing a service here and not getting much in return though I don't expect it (none of the Eggs so far have been flawless, I quote this above):
"That's no problem. None of the Eggs are flawless unfortunately :(. Next box now?"
In my opinion, it seems to me he thought he could take my Pokemon freely without asking.
I'm pleasant though and I respond with:
"I don't mind you want to use some of them, but can you send them back first and I can send you over clones or so? :)"
This may have been the wrong thing to say as in reality I really just wanted my Pokemon back as I didn't feel comfortable trading with him. I didn't want him having breeding parents either as I'm already providing the service here virtually free.
At this point I've mentioned the conversation to some other people (I won't mention their posts/names unless asked as it's not relevant) but they seem to agree that something was not right.
I mark all his Eggs and we agree to trade again once I've done another lot of Eggs.
He states:
"Alright. I'll come on now. BTW, feel free to keep the non-flawless if you want LOL."
I feel this is a red-flag. I'm already not getting some of my Pokemon returned to me and it seems to me that if I keep his non-flawless it's almost like he can keep my Pokemon. I don't want anything of his though, I simply want to trade back at this stage and get my Pokemon back. I'm really uncertain and feel his is trying to steal from me.
At this point I feel I need to be strict and really ask for my Pokemon back. It may be a misunderstanding but I don't want to do the cloning for him either anymore.
He asks me:
"Which ones were flawless btw? I think I gave you some goomys, binacles, more claunchers, and a couple charmanders."
I respond:
"I'm not saying. Okay. (which Pokemon are flawless)
I want you to return every Pokemon of mine I traded you and I will return what you traded me/your Eggs. Your shinies/flawless are coming back last.
Do you understand?"
I don't feel this was hostile of me, I simply wanted my Pokemon back at this stage as I'm uncomfortable trading with him anymore.
He asks me:
"Is something wrong?"
I respond with:
"Yes.
You did not return all the Pokemon I traded you for your Eggs. (when I asked prior) I expect them back and then you try to say you want them for your own breeding. You did not ask, that is wrong. Not returning them when I ask is a bannable offence.
I don't mean to be hostile but as far as I'm concerned you said nothing about wanting to use them - if I did not notice, you could have easily stolen from me."
He responds with:
"I didn't steal anything. I'm going to give them all back. I thought they were all junk pokemon.
Well some of them anyways."
I feel this contradicts what he said prior when he "wanted to use a couple of them for breeding". If they were junk 'mons, I don't think he'd be using them for breeding.
I respond with:
"I didn't say you could keep them though, you just assumed you could.
Okay, I'm going to trade back everything that isn't mine/your Eggs. Your shinies/flawless come last, I'm not doing the cloning.
If you try to trade me anything that isn't mine, I will cancel the trade and take this to a Mod."
I don't mean to seem like I'm arguing but I had to be strict trying to get my Pokemon back.
He says:
"I didn't assume anything. I had every intention on giving them back.
And that's what I'm going to do."
Why didn't he trade them back when we were doing trade backs though? Rather than just keeping some of them and sending Pokemon that were not mine (his) but also not Eggs I was supposed to be checking or Shinies to be cloned (there were only 2 Pokemon to be cloned and they were sent like first).
I say:
"Look, I won't argue with you. I'm not cloning for you now.
Please return what's mine and you'll get what's yours."
He says:
"I actually specifically asked you if I could use some of your spitbacks for breeding. You said it was alright but I had to return them first."
I follow up with:
"No, I had to ask first "where my Pokemon were?". And I was being pleasant when really I felt you were trying to take advantage of my kindness. I offered you cloning/ESV checking for free, you don't get to take my breeding parents."
He responds and I feel his is hostile here:
"You seriously need to calm the f**k down. Most people just give me junk pokemon when we do this, so that's what I thought they were. Obviously we had a misunderstanding so I will return everything. And by the way you told me I could keep one of the scatterbugs. I think you're getting confused."
I muted the swear word but he still said that. At this point he has also taken more than just my Scatterbug. I will follow up more on this when I go into the next few lines.
I say:
"No, I don't. You need to not take advantage of my kindness. Look, I'm cancelling this trade for the moment. You have just been rude to me.
I may just take this to a mod."
He was rude to me and I cancelled the trade for the moment. I wasn't sure wheatear to continue as I didn't feel we were getting anywhere.
He ends up saying:
"I have done NOTHING. We had a misunderstanding/miscommunication. I had every intention to return everything to you from the start. Will you just let me return your stuff so we can put this behind?"
This may be a misunderstanding but:
"You just swore at me, I consider that rude. Even if it was a misunderstanding, that is rude.
I will trade back now as long as you are no longer rude to me."
He apologizes and I'm prepared to trade back now, as long as I get my Pokemon back:
"Listen. I am really really sorry. But I swear this was a misunderstanding."
Now, I start getting some of my Pokemon back... but things are odd. Like he trades me back 2 Level 7 Axews when I distinctly remember only having 1 (I can look this up in my backups on Powersaves). And again, like a level 17 Larvesta. He's sending me back twos of Pokemon I only originally had 1 of that I traded him. Is he cloning them? 'Cause I don't feel all of my Pokemon are here and some of these are liked duplicates.
He attempts to trade me back a Shiny Buneary, I never traded him a Buneary. I only have one Buneary in my box and it's not Shiny, male or near the boxes I was using for trading (the Buneary I have is in Box 10 and the Boxes I was holding his Eggs in/Pokemon for use in the trade were in like Box 25).
I tell him:
"That's not my Buneary?"
He says:
"I have more than one buneary in my PC boxes.
I can't view pokemon info while we do this, so I might pick the wrong one by mistake."
I say:
"It was a shiny one, just wondering as I was like "that's not mine?""
I feel he was very disorganized with our trade
"What else of yours do I still have? You gave me a lot so I might not remember everything.
I apologize. Wrong aerodactyl
My boxes are very unorganized, so please be patient if I make a mistake."
I'm sure he's traded me back Pokemon that are not mine and I can check in Powersaves back ups exactly what I had. I just want to get this over with though and give him his Eggs back. This is also the point where my Net drops out for a bit and it takes like 10 minutes or so to come back.
"It's okay. My net just dropped out I saw the light go red. Trying to trade back now."
He says:
"Can we finish trading now? I apologize for the mistake, but I have your pokemon pretty organized now (I think)."
I say:
"Yeah, we can. My net just dropped out and I couldn't see your messages."
He ends up saying:
"I just wanted to say. I've been on this site for a very long time. I've never stolen from anyone and I never will. I will try to keep my boxes more organized so I don't make mistakes in the future.
That's why I wanted your help. Trying to organize what I have."
But he still has traded me things that are not mine? Like he traded me back a Bonsly, Octillery. Things I have 0 of in my PCs and no record of having. I did not trade him these Pokemon either and these are not my Pokemon I asked for back.
He tries to trade me the Shiny Buneary again:
"That's not my Buneary. Mine is female, Love Ball."
I don't check now if that's the Buneary I have (in my PC) but I check in Powersaves and the one I have is female, Love Ball. The one he is offering is male, Shiny, Love Ball.
He says:
"You gave me a shiny buneary correct? I'm looking in my boxes and that's the only shiny one I can find."
It was not Shiny, I know for a fact. All the Pokemon I have Shiny as well and have redi rights on are in my thread.
I give up though and just say:
"Okay, it must be the shiny one then."
This might not have been the right thing to do, but I just want to get this trade over with and possibly take this to a Mod. He obviously is trading me back Pokemon that are not mine and not what I asked for back.
He says to me:
"This thing I'm trading you IS in a love ball. You must be mistaken about it being female."
I am not mistaken, pulled this from my Powersaves, only Buneary I have in there:
| 2,4 | Buneary (F) | Jolly | Klutz | 31.31.31.02.31.17 | |
I tell him:
"That's just what it says in my Powersaves (Female, Love Ball). May be the other Buneary then."
He ends by giving me a Shiny Goomy, again, still hasn't returned all my Pokemon and I am returning his Pokemon lastly for the Goomy. I have not received back everything that is mine.
"Consider this goomy an apology for cursing. I don't like being called a thief. It's flawless too. Friends?"
I do not want his Goomy and don't consider that an apology. I also feel he has still stolen from me.
I'm still pleasant though and respond with:
"Okay. You didn't need to offer me anything in return but that's all your Eggs. There's about 3 flawless Goomys, I marked them.
This might have all been a misunderstanding but thanks for returning my 'mons."
He says to me:
"Yea I just didn't want you to get the wrong idea about me. I've never wronged anyone and I try to be generous when I can."
This may not be relevant here but I believe this is untruthful of lmitchell0012 to say when you can see on other people's pages/threads he asks for Pokemon virtually free or if he can have them for nothing. Those are not the words of a generous person.
I end up just giving him the ESVs of his Eggs as I want to get this over with and leave things on a good note. Despite, I still want to report this incident.
He asks:
"Hey, will you trade these to me one more time? Just to make sure they are in the correct order?"
I accept and then he's found more for me to check, when I only really wanted to get those first ones in the correct order. In reality, I feel he's asking for way too much though. I just feel as if he has stolen from me, have made that clear and he still wishes to use my services?
"I found three more eggs I forgot to have you check. These are in a different box so they won't get mixed up."
We trade back and he asks me:
"Yea that's it. I was wondering. Would it be possible to get a copy of the shiny marill in your thread?"
Again, I feel he is asking for more than enough after the services I am providing. I don't respond to that as I didn't want his Shiny Goomy and do end up trying to give it back to him later on.
I trade him back his Eggs and then try to give Goomy back:
"Also, do you want your Goomy back, don't have time to clone anything?" (as I'm going out, like I mentioned above I needed to)
He says:
"All i really want is that marill in your thread."
I don't want or feel I need to trade him the marill though. This is not a trade, I have offered out my services.
He cancels out of the trade before I give him his final Egg, which is a duplicate, as I posted their values/ESVs:
| 1,6 | Charmander (F) | Adamant | Blaze | 31.31.31.16.31.31 | 1541 |
| 5,6 | Charmander (F) | Adamant | Blaze | 31.31.31.16.31.31 | 1541 |
He says:
"Wait a minute. I thought I only gave you 7 eggs. I'm getting confused now LOL."
I respond with:
"No? I still have another Egg, that's yours.
Can you take it I need to go out like now?"
He takes his Egg, not returning my Pokemon he still has as I really need to go out.
I try to put the situation to bed though I do check my Powersaves, what's missing, compared to what I had before the trade. lmitchell0012 seemed to believe that just because I didn't have my Pokemon does not mean he stole them. Which in theory, may be true, but I would not release/get rid of my own Pokemon and even if I did I could find them again in Powersaves were they not completely gone. Between his Egg Checking I also had no time to really release anything.
I'm missing quite a few things, though I only bring up the first of it.
I post on our previous conversation:
"Hey, do you still have a Zorua or Sableye of mine, by any chance?"
I get the response:
"Yes. I will return them."
At this stage I've already said something to the Mods the first time, so I'm assuming they said something to him. I do not believe he would have returned anything or made any attempts to (was he or was he not aware he still had my Pokemon) had I not mentioned something to a Mod.
I respond telling him he still has some of my things and that he has returned things I do not own/are not mine:
"Okay, I still think you can some things of mine. I have a list in Powersaves of my backed up saves. Like you traded me Bonsly, Octillery - these are not mine, I have none of them in my PC.
Also, the Shiny Buneary. Not mine.
I'll post a list if you need one but can you get my things together to trade back?
He says this, which I believe is too convient for him:
"I have zorua and sableye ready. I can't remember what else you gave me."
This last message from him is at 10:47 AM, I post two more messages (also asking him if he was cloning my Pokemon), the final being at 12:31 PM requesting for all of my Pokemon back to which he has not responded yet to but has been on:
"Hi, I've see you on and you're on now. Mods have already been informed of the situation and if you don't respond/trade me back my Pokemon, I will take this to the blacklist forum shortly.
You've had time to get my things together and you also have not responded to me."
He responds with:
"What is your problem? I've been online several times today. I have not seen you on. And the axew must have gotten cloned when we disconnected or something (I don't even have a cloning device so this is impossible)."
This is a lie. I was on between those times, you can see posts I've made in SQSA and just outside of the stolen Pokemon issue, lmitchell0012 has been what I consider untruthful.
I respond with basically what I've just said and he responds with:
"I told you I don't have a cloning device. I haven't cloned anything. I will trade you back the pokemon with your OT and then I expect you to apologize and stop harassing me."
I don't see how I'm harassing him asking for my Pokemon back?
I respond with:
"Not all the Pokemon I sent you have my OT/ID. I can even check their OTs in Powersaves. Why should I apologize when you are holding my Pokemon?"
He says:
"And you edited your post. I have no idea what's yours and what isn't. You can't expect me to remember all this. You gave me like 50 different things. Please only trade me junk pokemon next time we trade. I don't have time to deal with this."
I say:
"Where did I edit my post? And you were the one that sent me so many Eggs, I could not possibly have that much fodder/junk to trade. You also didn't say there were going to be that many Eggs.
You have to have time to deal with this and hang on, I'm preparing fodder/junk for you to have."
He says:
"No I really don't. I never asked you to give me your best pokemon, and I certainly didn't ask for all this harassment. Do you realize how many goomies I have in my boxes after breeding? I have no idea which one is yours. Only trade me fodder next time we do something like this."
I respond:
"We won't be doing something like this again. And you say you have nothing so obviously what is mine are the good Pokemon.
You should also keep your boxes more organized in future. When I'm ready, I'll be trading you back junk."
This goes on for a little while until he only trades me back 4 Pokemon. There are far more that that missing and but I try to put the situation to bed again, and just PM the Mods:
"Okay, if you see anything else can you tell me as I'm still missing some things."
That was yesterday and today he responds as I've also told the Mods at this stage what I'm still missing:
"Can you tell me exactly what you are missing? I will look through my boxes again, just for you. But just because you're missing something it doesn't mean I have it. Just saying."
I respond:
"Okay, I'm still missing some things but I can't trust if you say you don't have them. I've seen you on other people's pages asking for like fully redis good Pokes for next to nothing.
I don't really care anymore if you've taken them but I'm still missing."
I post what I'm still missing and he responds with:
"Why does it matter what I ask for? Sometimes people give things out for free. But I have pokemon of my own (pokemon I bred myself) that I'm offering for trade now.
And I gave you a free pokemon (a shiny). What do I have to do to make you believe me?
So just because you are missing some things that makes it my fault? That's your own fault, not mine."
I say:
"How is it my fault? You dump like 3 whole boxes of Eggs on me without warning. I wouldn't release/misplace my own 'mons and even if I did, I can refind them with Powersaves (by checking).
Also, I consider those Shinies collateral now, not like you were giving me something."
That's pretty much the end of this, I realize this is very long but in summary...
lmitchell0012 has been very difficult to trade with, requesting more than he was entitled too when I was offering the service here and doing this for nothing in return. He also stole some of my Pokemon and I feel I have asked/tried to get them back but he has dodged around it, offered me Pokemon that are not mine back when I asked for my own.
Now, this isn't a big issue for me as I could just backup a save but I don't feel I should have to when he stole from me. I allowed him the chance to trade the Pokemon back and he didn't, instead he traded back what I think are duplicates and Pokemon that are not mine. Not everyone could backup a save in this situation though.
I'm not sure if this is enough to warrant a blacklisting or anything but I do feel lmitchell0012 has indeed stolen from me.
The latest now is that he says he only seems to have some of my Pokemon when I can read off Powersaves that he obviously has more. I don't know if I can trust him as I know what I've got and I don't have. Right now he only says he has 4 mons that are mine but the others that he has that are mine he must have released or something because I don't have them.
Thanks, and sorry for this being so long.
