What advice would you give to a newcomer?

SJCrew

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I still don't agree that we need to be consistent to such an extreme extent that we'd enforce EV restrictions on a Pokemon, but that's an argument for another thread.

@ Shrang: Ubers tends to be a fast-paced metagame, so HO actually works pretty well there. If you want to be on the safe side, you could include at least one tank, but there are plenty of bulky Pokemon there to take an attack or two without necessarily having to be a wall, so you might as well just go balls-out unless you're using some form of stall.
 
HO teams always have a well-defined structure. The first thing to do is to pick whether you're using a Physical or Special Team. I prefer physical.

For your lead, you use Deoxys-S or Deoxys-A to quickly put up Stealth Rock or maybe score a kill. Then, use a Wobbuffet. Finally, pick 4 sweepers from the list below.

SD Scizor
Agili Metagross
SD Rayquaza
DD Rayquaza
RP Groudon
SD Garchomp
BU Mix Dialga
BU Palkia
SD Luke
SD Weavile
DD Tyranitar

Make sure one of the Pokemon resists Dragon (so Scizor or Metagross), one of them IS a Dragon-type, and one of them is a Ground-type for the Electric immunity. The idea here is that your team is walled by Groudon, and will sacrifice dudes to kill it so that the others can sweep.

Oh yeah, I think that using a tank on a HO team is inadvisable because every tank is setup fodder for something, and for most HO teams, when your opponent sets something up, the game ends.
 
The thing about DD Kingdra is that it requires the Rain to sweep, and Kyogre can't be used in a physical capacity (lol, don't tell me about CBOgre) on a physical hyperoffense team. I guess Salamence is decent alongside DDQuaza as long as Groudon kicks the bucket.
 
I'd say play by experience. I'm probably one of those noobs that gather at the bottom of the ladder, but I am still learning alot.
 
so its basically a sweeper whos best attack is weaker than groudon's EQ, has much lower defences, cannot OHKO any pokemon that groudon cant with EQ,fire punch, dragon claw, and is harder to fit on a team?
 

supermarth64

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so its basically a sweeper whos best attack is weaker than groudon's EQ,
2% weaker, which doesn't make much of a difference.
has much lower defences,
But that comes with extremely useful resistances, such as a 4x Dark- and Rock-resist along with a 2x Ice-, Steel- and Dragon- resist.
cannot OHKO any pokemon that groudon cant with EQ,fire punch, dragon claw, and is harder to fit on a team?
That Groudon set gets severely walled by Lugia. Additionally, Lucario can outspeed +1 base 110s because it in invests fully in Speed unlike Groudon.
 
Additionally, Lucario can outspeed +1 base 110s because it in invests fully in Speed unlike Groudon.[/QUOTE]
There's no common +1 base 110s, Lati@s both have soul dew, and Lugia is mainly defensive, slapping a choice scarf would be stupid. You'd either wanna outspeed +1 Garchomp or +1 Shaymin-S, as those are actually somewhat common.
 
i forgot about the part where we have to use the exact same spreads as the analysis.

groudon and lucario both have 90 base speed, so they can outspeed the exact same things. I always run 252 speed on my RP groudons just because the extra 84 HP(of whatever it is) is not even nearly as useful as outrunning all the other RPdons that only go up to 250/1 speed.

agility luke is stopped cold by groudon, fails to OHKO mewtwo and always gets OHKOd in return, stopped by giratina-0, and plenty others. While RPdon is stopped pretty cold by most of these as well, he isnt as dead weight without a boost as he can at least take a hit
 
That Groudon set gets severely walled by Lugia. Additionally, Lucario can outspeed +1 base 110s because it in invests fully in Speed unlike Groudon.
Lucario isn't breaking Lugia any time soon with unboosted Crunches. Especially since Lugia survives the 1st crunch, sets up a reflect, and roosts off the damage EASILY. Unboosted Crunch only managing 48.1% maximum so hitting max damage twice yields 48.1+24.05(Reflect)+25(SR)-6.25. Its slightly better than the Groudon set listed above against Lugia but still walled hard by Lugia.
 
Its not like anyone is saying agil Luke is better than rp groudon, because its obviously not. The point is Luke isnt outclassed by groudon. While groudon would be better on average, some teams would benefit more from luke than groudon because of the reasons mentioned in theorymons analysis (and supermarth mentioned some too).

In conclusion, Agility Luke IS NOT outclassed by groudon even though groudons better than it on average. Lucarios notable advantages allow it to play a unique role. thats all i was saying when i said luke should be added.
 
someone earlier mentioned using agiligross...

how does its moveset differ from the one it uses in OU?
 
someone earlier mentioned using agiligross...

how does its moveset differ from the one it uses in OU?
For one, explosion is a primary choice, because eliminating support Groudon means Garchomp/DD Rayquaza can sweep. Ice punch for the multitude of dragons, and Metagross now runs max speed, to ensure it beats +1 Garchomp.
 
watch out for magikarp-it's a threat now!

Seriously, make sure you always have scarfers, and make your walls carry at least 2 offensive moves, or a generic good coverage move and some offensive EVs, since many things in Ubers can sweep with just 1 turn of setup (outside of team support). And thats another thing, team support is important. For an ubers team to function, you cannot just throw 6 pokemon together, they must be a team, covering weaknesses and taking advantage of holes in the opponets offense or defense. And with the threats being so powerfull, a lot of wieght is placed on every pokemon, espiecelly defensive ones-for example, in my team (a bulky ho-oh based team) forretress and groudon are my only pokes that can take a real hit, and since forretress is setup bait outside of explosion, groudon has to cover rayquaza, other groudon, subpunch mewtwo (anyone seen a lot of these lately), etc. It will eventually fall, so a team must be able to sweep before it is sweeped-Ubers is the definition of kill or be killed. Also, with so few players playing Ubers, tastes fluctuate often - i think there was a post or smog interview that talked about it, and ill try to find a link, but basically, a few very selective players control what you see. You should also always have a backup plan, since everything can go wrong at once.
And most important, anything and everything is viable in Ubers when played right. Be prepared for everything, wether subseed jumpluff in the sun, a rain dance team, a team stalling you out until you are swept by something you didn't expect (damn you genny and your celebi), or even a dumbass loocking fish outspeed your scarftwo and KO'ing with rain.
And never use psychic, unless you have irrational fears of hyperactive monkeys that never go to sleep. stupid primeape.
 

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