UU Analysis Discussion Thread

Zarel

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idk if this is the right place to bring this up, but:

http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/hoopa/uu/

The remaining 4 EVs are put into HP, as it allows Hoopa to consume the Salac Berry after setting up three Substitutes, allowing it to hit 393 Speed after the boost.
I talked to PS Staff and tested to make sure, but it takes 12 HP EVs for a level 100 Hoopa to activate Salac at 3 subs rather than 4... (alternatively, 0 EVs and 30 IVs would do it)
 
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nv

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idk if this is the right place to bring this up, but:

http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/hoopa/uu/



I talked to PS Staff and tested to make sure, but it takes 12 HP EVs for a level 100 Hoopa to activate Salac at 3 subs rather than 4... (alternatively, 0 EVs and 30 IVs would do it)
I submitted the change so it should be fixed soon :) (I decided to only mention the 30 HP IVs option since 12 EVs takes away from Speed or Special Attack which isn't ideal)
 

Punchshroom

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So I've noticed this in Yanmega's OO:
Psychic hits Nidoqueen, Crobat, and Tentacruel harder than Air Slash but provides no other coverage, making it another very situational move
I don't know about you, but Psychic seems waaaay more appealing than Air Slash on the Speed Boost set: it still covers Fighting-types but also nails Poison-types which would require far less whittling for Yanmega to break through, and Air Slash doesn't seem to hit that much that Yanmega can't hit with Bug Buzz and Ancientpower.

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Air Slash vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 196-231 (52.5 - 61.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 312-369 (83.6 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery, guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Air Slash vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Nidoqueen: 187-220 (51 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Psychic vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Nidoqueen: 296-351 (80.8 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 207-243 (68.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 328-387 (108.2 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Air Slash vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 140-165 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 221-263 (73.1 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Air Slash vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 140-165 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Psychic vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 221-263 (61.2 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Infernape: 343-406 (117 - 138.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 367-434 (104.5 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 221-265 (62.9 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 179-213 (50.9 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Psychic vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Machamp: 200-237 (54.9 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 296-351 (92.2 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO, 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 270-320 (89.7 - 106.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roserade: 250-294 (96.5 - 113.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

All in all, I don't see the point of Air Slash on Speed Boost Yanmega. Sure it has that nice flinch chance, but Yanmega should probably be prioritizing OHKOing stuff rather than hoping for a flinch to not die in return. Psychic just seems way more worthwhile, even for just the sole purpose of smacking Crobat much, much earlier.

Edit:
Air Slash does significantly more than Psychic to Fighting types (Air Slash KOes Bulk Up Conk and does a big chunk more to AV, does more to Cobalion), more to Gyarados and Tornadus (and Gligar), does more to Entei and Chandelure, and does more to Fairy types (defensive ones should be worn down if you attempt a Yanmega sweep, Air Slash does more to specs Sylveon and OHKOes Whimsicott).
I just wanna point out that Air Slash doesn't manage to OHKO BU Conk, Psychic already cleanly 2HKOes AV, Ancientpower can hit the Fire and Flyings, and LO Bug Buzz shreds offensive Whimsicott, but I suppose for the sake of target compression it's still worth it; I just thought Psychic + Ancientpower is optimal coverage for Speed Boost Yanmega.
 
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Air Slash does significantly more than Psychic to Fighting types (Air Slash KOes Bulk Up Conk and does a big chunk more to AV, does more to Cobalion), more to Gyarados and Tornadus (and Gligar), does more to Entei and Chandelure, and does more to Fairy types (defensive ones should be worn down if you attempt a Yanmega sweep, Air Slash does more to specs Sylveon and OHKOes Whimsicott).

Offensive Nidoqueen would get worn down getting SR up, and Tentacruel is 2HKOd after SR by either moves. Psychic only really helps against Nidoking and bulky Crobat.

The flinch chance can also be clutch against a weakened sylv or something like that so yeah.

I will probably edit the analysis to reflect that Yanemga is pretty bad though.
 
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I do, as an avid fan of the concept, personally believe the Meloetta Pirouette deserves more love than it receives. It has wonderful sweeping potential with extremely high speed and attack stats, rivaling many very speed-biased pokemon such as all three genies in both forms, Shaymin-Sky, and even Weavile, and many attack-biased pokemon, such as Emboar, Blaziken, and Gyarados. If used under the right circumstances and/or with the proper teammates, Meloetta Pirouette is a force to be reckoned with.

This is the set I use, and propose is added to the Smogon site;

Meloetta @ Assault Vest
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Relic Song
- Return
- Drain Punch
- U-turn / Knock Off

Knock Off can be used as an alternative to U-Turn, as while U-Turn allows Meloetta to pivot while doing ample damage to most foes, Knock Off can make annoyances like Rocky Helmet and Leftovers something it doesn't have to deal with, and can hit Ghosts where its other moves cant. Return is Meloetta's most powerful STAB attack, with a BP of 153 after STAB is applied, and can hit those foes that don't resist it very hard. Relic song is a given to this set, and can potentially force out threats with sleep. Drain Punch gives Meloetta a good deal of recovery with, again, the STAB and high attack stat, and works as an alternative to Return against rock and steel-type pokemon.

While Relic Song is the most obvious obstacle to using Meloetta Pirouette, it isn't something that is too difficult to overcome. Meloetta Aria has very reasonable bulk, so if it isn't fast enough to go first (unless faced with a bug or dark-type attack) it can indeed withstand mostly any attack it is faced with, however, Earthquake, Gunk Shot, and Poison Jab (from MegaDrill) can be quite difficult, as they easily check and /destroy/ Meloetta before it even has a chance to transform. A teammate with Thunder Wave access like Blissey or Whimsicott can make Meloetta Aria much more temporary, and with Serene Grace, gives Relic Song a slightly boosted chance of putting the foe to sleep, which potentially forces a switch on the opponent's part based on the circumstances. While the set is far more effective with a b-pass speed or attack, it isn't entirely required, depending on your opponents team, so having a Celebi for the swords dance/agility wouldn't hurt at all.

With +2 max attack, this pokemon can achieve such feats as;
+2 252+ Atk Meloetta-P Return vs. 248 HP / 100+ Def Mega Charizard X: 274-324 (76.3 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Meloetta-P Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Skarmory: 199-235 (59.5 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Meloetta-P Drain Punch vs. 192 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 1068-1260 (334.7 - 394.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Meloetta-P Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 103-123 (42.3 - 50.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Meloetta-P Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 244-289 (69.3 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

'Mons you would need to keep watch for include Choice Band Crobat, for its superior speed and super effectiveness, which completely wipes out Meloetta. Doublade is something to take care of quickly, as, if Meloetta acts as the last pokemon on your team, is cornered by it, and can do hardly anything to it--especially is not transformed. Sticky Webs also put Meloetta in a tight spot, but can easily be removed with the help of Donphan or Forretress. Sylveon walls all of this sets attacks, and can easily do away with Meloetta with STAB Pixilate Hyper Voice.

( I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO sorry if this is the wrong place for this--however it just looked to be. )
 

Hogg

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Impressive as those calcs are, Meloetta already has a UU analysis, and I don't see any relevant reasons to re-do it at this point in time.
 
Can we take a moment to notice that the Pikachu page has been untouched since BW? They did give players a cosplay and endeavor Pikachu so, can we do something?
 
Shouldn't Choice Specs Hydreigon get an analysis? My resident tier is OU and rarely play UU so i don't really understand much about this metagame, first i thought that Specs Hydreigon was more of an OU thing but i talked with a few great UU players and they all said that Specs Hydra is a great set, i even got to heard that it's Hydreigon's best set in this meta. The set seems analysis worthy and i even tried it out, having more power than LO with no recoil seems pretty appealing, Draco becomes a bigger nuke, Dark Pulse is even more spammable and it's a good user of U-turn as it can grab momentum without being locked on an annoying move or losing hp from Life Orb so i'd like to know if this set is getting an analysis anytime soon.
 
Hydreigon can run Choice Specs to hit significantly harder; however, it can't fully take advantage of its coverage without Life Orb.

That's what Hydras analysis says. The problem is neither of its stabs are too good to be locked into so most of the time you'll be clicking U turn. Life Orb also eases prediction.
 
Choice Specs Hydreigon is definitely worth a set, we had someone who had it reserved but never got around to it. If anyone wants to reserve it, go ahead and post in the reservation thread and you can get started on the skeleton.

Tangela is also on the VR with no analysis so anyone can reserve that as well and get started.
 

Freeroamer

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A little quirk I've gotten into the habit of running is 8 SpA EVs on Tenta after my Scald didn't 2hko once :(, I think it's worth adding to the analysis spread:

8 SpA Tentacruel Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Entei: 186-218 (50.1 - 58.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Tentacruel Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Entei: 182-216 (49 - 58.2%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
 

Kink

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A little quirk I've gotten into the habit of running is 8 SpA EVs on Tenta after my Scald didn't 2hko once :(, I think it's worth adding to the analysis spread:

8 SpA Tentacruel Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Entei: 186-218 (50.1 - 58.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Tentacruel Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Entei: 182-216 (49 - 58.2%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
dodmen if you choose to add it I think it should be 252 HP / 56 Def / 8 SpA / 196 Spe with timid.
 
I'd probably go with 240hp / 164 def / 8 spa / 96 speed timid. That spread outspeeds Jolly Mamoswine, implements the 2HKO Scald for Entei (coming in more than once might happen with Wish support) and then just dumps whatever is left into bulk.
 

esche

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Regarding EV spread optimization: 232 HP EVs on Tentacruel hit 359 HP which reduces passive damage from Stealth Rock and Burns while keeping the maximum amount of possible Black Sludge recovery per turn. Timid Tentacruel actually gains a little physical bulk by doing this because the differantial between HP and Def converges. However, this does come with a slight reduction of Tentacruels special bulk. Regarding Tentacruels role as both a spinner and an Entei check, I feel like a case for this reduction of passive damage can be made. In the following I will present calculations regarding passive and actual damage on Tentacruel.

Passive damage calculation:

252 HP EVs = 364 HP; 240 HP EVs = 361 HP; 232 HP EVs = 359 HP
Stealth Rock/1 Layer of Spikes/Burn damage = 12,5% (1/8); Black Sludge recovery = 6,25% (1/16)

364 / 8 = 45,5 (45) while 364 / 16 = 22,75 (22) --> [45] passive damage vs. [22] passive recovery
361 / 8 = 45,125 (45) while 361 / 16 = 22,5625 (22) --> [45] passive damage vs. [22] passive recovery
359 / 8 = 44,875 (44) while 359 / 16 = 22,4375 (22) --> [44] passive damage vs. [22] passive recovery

Actual damage calculation (Physical):


252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Tentacruel: 172-203 (47.2 - 55.7%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Extreme Speed vs. 240 HP / 68 Def Tentacruel: 170-200 (47 - 55.4%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Extreme Speed vs. 232 HP / 76 Def Tentacruel: 168-198 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Tentacruel: 161-190 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery and burn damage
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 240 HP / 68 Def Tentacruel: 159-187 (44 - 51.8%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery and burn damage
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 232 HP / 76 Def Tentacruel: 156-185 (43.4 - 51.5%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery and burn damage

Actual damage calculation (Special):


252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 129-153 (35.4 - 42%) -- 84.3% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 129-153 (35.7 - 42.3%) -- 89.6% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 232 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 129-153 (35.9 - 42.6%) -- 92.7% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery


Like I said, this is a minimal optimization regarding passive damage and Tentacruels role as both a spinner and Entei check. Basically you gain a little more physical bulk and take less damage from Burn and Stealth Rock, while losing a little special bulk. Unless there is a important (special) attack that Tentacruel lives 100% of the time whith 252 HP EVs, I do believe 232 HP EVs is the right spread to go with.

This is what the final EV Spread would look like: 232 HP / 76 Def / 8 SpA / 192 Spe (outspeeding Krook) or 232 HP / 172 Def / 8 SpA / 96 Spe (outspeeding Mamo).

Did I miss something important?
 
Haxorus' DD set has an awkward line under the moves section.

Poison Jab can be used over Taunt as an alternate coverage move...
This is the first mention of either move. It makes it sound like Taunt is the first slash, when it's actually not even listed on the set, which has Poison Jab slashed with Iron Tail.

The next line is more assertive that Poison Jab is the preferred move.
Taunt is an option, but Haxorus would much rather have the coverage to hit the common Fairy-types of the tier.
Iron Tail isn't brought up at all in the write-up.
 

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