USM NU Theorymons

[Fragmented]

earth power liligant
it finally gets a reason to be used over the likes of venusaur and sceptile. it has higher special atack than saur, and sleep powder helps it net set up opportunities for it to start steam rolling. it doesn't need to run niche sets like sleep powder + dream eater to beat garbodor anymore (lol oras), which is cool. it's beeb said to death, but earth power gives it coverage for steel, poison and fire types, and the most relevant being av mortar and av roar which usually tank a +1 breakneck blitz into giga drain if rocks aren't up, while +1 earth power reliably 2hkos.

vs av mortar:
+1 252 SpA Lilligant Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 60 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar: 202-238 (66 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Lilligant Giga Drain vs. 60 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar: 57-67 (18.6 - 21.8%) -- possible 5HKO

vs av roar:
+1 252 SpA Lilligant Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Incineroar: 211-249 (53.5 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Lilligant Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Incineroar: 59-70 (14.9 - 17.7%) -- possible 6HKO

if it gets earth power, it's also going to suffer from 4mss since it wants sleep powder and quiver dance, but also grass stab (giga drain/petal dance), earth power and hp ice for grass and flying types, since it doesn't have to run hyper beam, or even z-dream eater to beat venusaur and sceptile easier. alternatively, it can run a scarf set better now that it has almost perfect coverage, with a set like leaf storm/earth power/hp ice/healing wish or giga drain in the last slot. i really like this theorymon.

55 spatk taurus
mixed taurus is now better. that is all.

vs steelix:
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 244 HP / 148 SpD Steelix: 192-229 (54.5 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

vs slowbro:
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 200-237 (50.7 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

vs rhydon:
4 SpA Life Orb Tauros Surf vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 177-213 (42.7 - 51.4%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 143-169 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

sheer force aurorus
honestly not a bad theorymon. while refrigerate gives it like 108 base power ice type hyper voices and snow warning allows it to hit blizzards and chip, sheer force ice beam hits like 117 base power before factoring in life orb. sheer force also powers up its coverage options like freeze dry and earth power, and even gives it secondary usable stab ancient power which now has 78 base power without life orb. it can run scarf or rock polish to make up for its middling speed. it also gets tbolt to hit waters harder i guess. honestly, snow warning is the better ability but sheer force isn't too bad as well.

storm drain palossand
finally a stealth rocker that 1v1s slowbro. beats other offensive waters like sd samurott w/o knock off, kingler w/o knock off, kabutops and even sd qwilfish. it also walls heliolisk without dark pulse and sort of handles blastoise and vaporeon (toxic is a thing)

just going to renom my clawitzer theorymon, but with more explanation.
adding 5 base speed puts clawitzer at base 64, which is not fast, but better. it now outspeeds base 60s, and with a scarf, speed ties with sceptile. this would make clawitzer a better offensive scarfer that can reliably beat many of the tier's threats as well as provide momentum in the form of u-turn.

 

[poh]

Voting time! Vote for your 2 favorite submissions!

+ Earth Power

+ Sheer Force
+ 55 Base Special Attack (so 55 instead of 40)

+ Storm Drain

 

[MultiAmmiratore]

Lilligant + earth power and palossand + storm drain

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Earth Power Lilligant and Sheer Force Aurorus

 

[Finchinator]

the castle with storm drain and flower girl with earth power

 

[Virizain]

Earth Power Lilligant and Storm Drain palo

 

[lolbro]

Lilli amd palo

 

[ayedan]

Lilli and pallo

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Lilli and Pallo

 

[Fragmented]

lilli and palo

 

[Ellicrum]

Lilligant and Tauros (Palossand would be too perfect)

 

[Chokepic]

Lili and the sandcastle

 

[Mike81401]

Lili and Palo

 

[Elyna]

Lilligant + Palossand

 

[poh]

The winners from this week were:

Lilligant + Earth Power (12 votes)

Palossand + Storm Drain (10 votes)

New slate!

with a base speed of 64

+ Knock Off

+ Stealth Rock

+ Nasty Plot

Happy Posting! be sure to be civil, and discuss the possibilities in the change of viability of these four Pokemon.

 

[Ellicrum]

I just learned the existence of this forum and it's probably what was missing most on Smogon (pending the NU, later certainly the other tiers). My opinion on these last proposals (I apologize in passing for my bad English):
•

Clawitzer: adding 5 in speed is not very significant in this case. It would now exceed in NU Incineroar (whose rise in RU is imminent), Jellicent and Minior-Meteor. But he is still slower than the late Emboar. In case he would drop in PU (this is unfortunately his way), he would outspeed including Abomasnow, Lapras, Toucannon, Type: Null and Weezing (only the first is interesting to exceed). The speed tier of 65/70 is more suitable for this mon: speedtie with Samurott, Vaporeon, Komala, Sandslash, Ludicolo, Poliwrath, Victreebel and Hitmontop;
•

Hitmontop precisely: the addition of Knock Off is immensely salvating for one of the worst mons of this tier. It will be able to disturb Xatu, Golbat, Sigilyph and Mismagius (who otherwise wall it at 100%). But the competition from other fighting types is too tough for it to explode in use. Hitmonlee, because of its attack and these abilities, is much more threatening and is in direct competition with Top. But Lee is also not the first choice in NU: there is to see Toxicroak, Medicham, Hariyama, Passimian and Scrafty. Anyway the spinners are not more what they were (it's not for nothing that Forretress and Donphan are the worst mons of their respective tier);
•

Gastrodon: certainly the most interesting of the batch. Because of its double type, its decent bulk, its ability and reliable recovery, there is no doubt that this pokemon will pass from embodied passivity to one of the best lead of the UU (which is my prediction if he had indeed Stealth Rock). Farewell so Seismitoad (who will be forced to have Swift Swim to stand out). But I do not know if it totally outclasses Swampert, which has better overall stats and a higher bulk (not counting the top offensive presence and Roar);
•

Exeggutor-Alola: a setup move is always welcome (and Nasty Plot is not the least). Exeggutor who was one of the few privileged to be OU in RBY now reside in the smogonians Abyss (and who is outclassed by his new form). If we just discuss Alola's form, it will probably be an alternative to Trick Room. But will he have time to setup himself? As the NU is dominated by Whimsicott, Delphox or Vanilluxe, I would be surprised if it happens (besides it already has Sword Dance, a correct attack and a decent physical movepool but I have never seen this moveset). Exeggutor must especially pray Game Freak for to have a thing: SPEED.

Some proposals for the future:
• Audino-Mega + Moonlight
• Cinccino + Play Rough
• Delphox + Focus Blast
• Golbat + Poison Jab
• Mismagius + Fairy type

 

[Fragmented]

thread sort of dead :/
posting anyway cos this is the type of shit i enjoy doing

Clawitzer with 64 Speed, although not the biggest buff, is pretty much the borderline buff it deserves (imo anyway). Timid Clawitzer now hits a max speed of 249, so while it can still be speed-crept, more investment in speed is required on the opponent's part. Also, it now comfortably outspeeds Incineroar, while it pretty much outspeeds the whole unscarfed and unboosted metagame with a Choice Scarf attached, only losing out to like Accelgor (scarf hits 373, 1 point above max speed Timid Sceptile). It already has coverage for the whole metagame, and with added speed, it becomes a bigger threat, with Scarf sets actually being able to outspeed Whims and Sneasel, forcing them out. More speed would be nice, but for something with such great wallbreaking potential, going overboard would make it on par with the likes of Emboar, which is to say kinda broken.

Knock Off finally means it doesn't automatically lose to every spinblocker in the tier. It also gives it some utility, being able to cripple stuff like Golbat and Altaria for teammates, while also being able to deter Ghost-types from switching into it due to the presence of Knock Off, which actually helps it perform its job as a hazard remover better as it gets more opportunities to click Rapid Spin. As a fighting-type, it pretty much has the lowest offensive presence amongst them all, but I've always seen Hitmontop as more of a utility mon that should be supporting the team instead of getting KOs. It already has access to Intimidate, easing its match up against physical attackers and presenting it with more opportunities to remove hazards for its teammates. Overall, I think this would be a nice addition to Hitmontop so that it isn't complete dead weight in a battle against a Ghost-type.

(blue is better)
Basically a slower Seismitoad with reliable recovery. Stealth Rock will actually give it a niche as a rocker that can comfortably switch into Slowbro and scare out other rockers. Its sort of like the Storm Drain Palossand theorymon, except it has better Special bulk and can switch into scary mons like Magmortar without Grass coverage and Heliolisk without Grass Knot. It can also decently check Steelix, Slowbro and other Water-type sweepers. It still has the same problem as every other rocker in the tier (besides Drudiggon) in the fact that it loses to the Grass types that are present in the tier(Whimsicott, Venusaur, Sceptile etc.). Its speed tier is just enough to outpace Slowbro, Steelix, and 12 Speed EVs help it to outspeed 0 Speed Rhydon as well, which can make setting up rocks much easier. However, I don't really see this getting much use as there isn't really need for another bulky water when you have both Slowbro and Slowking in the tier.

Nasty Plot? With Trick Room? With decent coverage options? Hell. Yesss. Dragon STAB + Fire Coverage hits the whole tier neutrally, Grass STAB helps against the bulky waters while Sludge Bomb is really only there for like Mega Dino and Aromatisse. It can actually do a better job than the existing OTR sweepers in the tier, firing off hits from a 125 Special Attack Stat. Its typing and bulk, however, makes it difficult for NeccBoi to set up both NP and TR, only finding potential opportunities against Lix and Bro (which are pretty common). Nasty Plot is a cool addition, which could also help it break slower, bulkier builds (if you are even considering of running max Speed), but its Speed stat is still abyssmal and it wishes that it has a better defensive type for setting up.

Theory-Noms

+ Boomburst

Lions do roar pretty loud.

+ Giga Drain
Recovery is recovery, no matter how bad it is.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Clawitzer

+5 base speed really isn't anything noteworthy, although with a scarf it can outrun Sceptile so there's that I guess.

Hitmontop

Knock Off does give it a way to hurt Ghost-types, but I'm still struggling to see why I'd use it over Hitmonlee or Defog Sigilyph

Stealth Rock Gastrodon

Typing and ability give it a niche over Rhydon and Pallosand, it is still incredibly passive though.

Nasty Plot Exeggutor-A

Oh yes, now we are talking. A set of Trick Room, Nasty Plot, Draco Meteor and Flamethrower with Dragonium Z lets it clean like nothing else late game. You don't necessarily even need to run Trick Room - it can be a great wallbreaker in its own right with Nasty Plot + 3 attacks (I'd go with Giga Drain, Draco Meteor, Flamethrower and Dragonium Z). Best of the slate IMO.

Of those I'd vote for Gastrodon and Exeggutor-A

My nominations.

Meganium + Fairy typing and Unaware. I'm going to keep nomming this thing, it gives it the buff it so desperately needs.
Silvally + Earthquake. Gives a lot of forms a viable SD set (Flying, Rock, Ice) and there are lighter Pokémon that can use the move.

 

[poh]

Voting time! Vote for your 2 favorite submissions!

+ Has now a base speed of 64

+ Knock Off

+ Stealth Rock

+ Nasty Plot

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Exeggutor-A and Gastrodon

 

[Chokepic]

Palm tree and gastro

 

[MultiAmmiratore]

gastro and hitmontop

 

[Ellicrum]

The Slug and the Top

 

[lolbro]

Claw and gastro

 

[Fragmented]

palm tree and top