Ubers: Why not?

ginganinja

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@Turai,

So you are stuck on how to make a RMT?
Well we could prob try and help you with that if you wished. I've done an Ubers RMT and it was not too hard.

EDIT I do have to thank spencer for making this topic, I feel like starting a rally lol!
 
@Turai,

So you are stuck on how to make a RMT?
Well we could prob try and help you with that if you wished. I've done an Ubers RMT and it was not too hard.

EDIT I do have to thank spencer for making this topic, I feel like starting a rally lol!
Well I have made one before for OU but it really didn't go very well as I had trouble describing some pokes and their roles in my team.

I have read tons of RMTs so I know whats generally expected but I always get stuck at the "This is what my member does for my team" explanation.

Im most likely gonna try and post an RMT this weekend or early next week, if you wanna help you are most welcome.

EDIT: Here's the RMT I have done before, Im not linkin it to get rates, just to clarify the problems Im having writing them.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69986
 

Destiny Warrior

also known as Darkwing_Duck
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I think par of the reason Ubers is uncommon is that the learning curve is way steeper than OU and UU(discount NU and LC for now). You might start off dominating other noobs, but when you get to the big guns, you're left with no real experience, and get a sound thrashing. There are no "in the middle" people, which is a problem while attempting to play Ubers.
 

ginganinja

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I would disagree as I was a compleate noob at ubers but got into it very fast and notched up wins against strong opponients such as Train Man. Now I am certainly no pro at ubers but I found it very easy to pick things up on the run. When I finally ran into trouble I put my team up for a RMT and then things have gone smoothly ever since.
 

Azure Demon

Guest
Honestly, I think there is 1 main reason
1. Fear of a new enviroment: while we all go through the "noob" phase when we suck and it seems like we got our butts kicked all the time. After someone gets good in a particular enviroment no one wants to transistion to another teir and get their butts kicked all over again so they just stick to what they feel they are good at no one likes being at the top then starting back at the bottom. Ubers in my opinion requires a different type of offensive and defensive synergy than ou and people notice that as soon as they jump into an uber battle. In ubers because you can play 20 matches and see the same pokemon but see that pokemon do 20 different things each time so the suprise factor is kind of scary to especially when you are transitioning from a teir where everyone pretty much knows what to expect from every pokemon to something where no matter how long you play you'll never be able to completly read a pokemon can do one of two things excite or scare people.

Not to mention it takes forever to get a battle on the ubers ladder


I love ubers and I would love to introduce more people to the teir
I just started recently and I am proud to say I almost beat train man 1-0 him with like 20 percent and I beat a player ranked 28 or 20th on the ladder so it's not a very hard teir to get used to people just make it harder than it is
 
I'd love to play Ubers one of these days... unfortunately, there is one thing that stops me from playing the tier (And it's the same thing that stops me from playing LC): I know, from trying the tier, that getting into it is VERY hard. Also, I can only play once every 2 weeks, meaning the tier could have shifted A LOT between battles, thus making team building a necesity (I love team building, but stink so badly at it.)

Oh, and the main shoddy server makes my computor laaaaaaaaaaag. That doesn't help.
 
Get some interest going by getting something put in the next issue of The Smog.

I don't really know much about it all atm (I haven't played competitive Pokemon in months) but that definitely sounds like a good way to get word out to the masses.
 

ginganinja

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@Mattman324

The ubers Tier does not undergo as many changes as OU does. I have played Ubers for about 8 months and used the same team over and over again. It has only has one variation (Latias for Shaymin S) which I only did after I put it up for a RMT. The team is still strong and I have beeten some top players with it. since no real new pokemon get added to ubers (and it does not matter if they do enter ubers since you can play with any pokemon except Arceus
 
I have to support the argument regarding the different metagame/environment.

When making an Ubers team, I think like I would in OU: Come up with a main focus, whether it be a weather focus, focus around one poke, heavy stall, etc; find pokemon to fit that main focus, make sure they synergize decently and don't overlap in terms of use and role; and find a suitable lead. Team building is generally all the same, and it's even easier (IMO) because now you can pick from ANY pokemon in the ENTIRE game (bar Arceus).

A team is built the same way, but I think what trips most people up is how to play them against other teams. What people fear most, it seems, is going up against another party of overpowered pokemon, where anyone could die at any given turn (offense vs. offense), or the battle could rage on for hours, even (heavy stall vs. heavy stall; happened to me once >_>). And because of the low popularity of the ladder, no one would want to wait 20 minutes to fight a battle lasting 2 minutes or 2 hours. It doesn't appeal, does it?

But I like diversity, and Ubers is a metagame that allows that. OU is SERIOUSLY centralized around Bulky Offense teams, as they work best in that environment filled with those kind of pokemon (Scizor, Metagross, Tyranitar, Machamp, all those TANKS). However, Ubers has no one solid type of team. A Heavy Sun stall team is as viable as a Heavy Offense Rain team; an anti-stall team is as viable as a semi-stall team; a bulky offense team is as viable as a balanced team. The diversity and slightly less centralized (in terms of overall TEAMS not pokemon (Kyogre)) Ubers metagame is what sells it the most IMO. From experience, I don't feel as though more 'skill' is involved, mind you I have no clue what people are talking about when they say 'skill' in pokemon. If skill refers to thought process, it's exactly the same: note down all the possibilities, pick out the most likely given the circumstances, act accordingly. If it's not that, I have 0% idea on what skill is.

Nonetheless, I also have another possible theory: are people afraid of Kyogre and the heavy hitters? Kyogre's got Rain + Specs + STAB + Water Spout from 438 SpA and a 100% accurate Thunder. Rayquaza has Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, Extremespeed, Outrage, Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, Earthquake, Waterfall, and all off of 438 Atk and Special Attack AND base 95 speed. I know you might say that the n00b would just use these guys, logically, but since they are inexperienced, they don't know when or where to send them out to get the set up, and who they are supposed to watch out for in the backseats (Lugia switch into +2 SD Rayquaza = lololol). But, then again, this all revolves around the fast-paced metagame and inexperience. To me.
 
LC is my favorite tier and uber is following close behind, the reason i love ubers so much is all the power the pokemons got, they movepools too, it open so much possibilitys, mixquaza, bulk up palkia, etc etc etc, so many options, different from OU where most pokemons only got 2 or 3 sets at best, ubers can run more then 50 different sets and still be effective.

also the fact any kind of team can work in ubers make me happy, in OU i only see bulky offense and stall, while in ubers i see all kinds, most persons think ubers is just pick 6 sweepers and pronto but that is stupid, once you get into the tier like me you see how fun it is.
 
I'm sad to say that picking 6 dudes in Ubers is almost what some teams do, and it's very effective.

Deoxys-S / Giratina-O / 3 Sweepers / 1 Scarfed Revenge Killer

is an amazingly popular team style, and always will be.
 
thanks for ruining every single bit of hope and love i had for ubers, i see that kind of player once in a while and i take pleasure in destroying they entire team and pride all together, people should start taking ubers more serious and actually try to make a team.

edit:i like to abuse uncommon sets, so my core is bulk up palkia with latias wish support, mixquaza work wonders here. deoxys-S lead is always nice, but i am being thinking about something else like dialga.
 
thanks for ruining every single bit of hope and love i had for ubers, i see that kind of player once in a while and i take pleasure in destroying they entire team and pride all together, people should start taking ubers more serious and actually try to make a team.
It's sad, but that style does work. I use a rather conservative style, with a lead, 2 sweepers, and a support core.
 

ginganinja

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Lol Darkrai will always be my best lead.
Anyway I construct my team carefully. I just finished like 20 uber teams which I will test which are based arund new or different sets/playstyles eg I am building an Ubers Gravity team, just to see if its viable.
 
Darkari has been one of the better leads for a while but with all the lum berry leads like dialga running around, wobbs looking all confused everywhere, and silly theorymons trickscarf deoxys-s gaining *A LOT* of popularity lately, he has started to become less effective.

As for team building, I usually stray away from the standard offense layout because it is too generic for my liking and too many players know exactly what to do against it.
 
thanks for ruining every single bit of hope and love i had for ubers, i see that kind of player once in a while and i take pleasure in destroying they entire team and pride all together, people should start taking ubers more serious and actually try to make a team.

edit:i like to abuse uncommon sets, so my core is bulk up palkia with latias wish support, mixquaza work wonders here. deoxys-S lead is always nice, but i am being thinking about something else like dialga.
Relax, creativity works wonders in Ubers, which places a high weight on player expectations. Pokemon such as MixQuaza merit their spots on Groudon-walled teams (such as those employing sweepers like BU Dialga, Metagross, Tyranitar, etc) simply by virtue of the fact that they make excellent lures and wallbreakers.

But as with OU, the bog standard teams are bog standard for a reason: they're effective.
 
exactly, in OU standards are standards, and players new to ubers think its the exactly same has OU, a metagame where everything runs the exactly same thing.

sadly, while running bog standards is effective in ubers, a new player with a bog standard team will have a hard time against players who are used to the uber tier because they know how to counter standards, then again that is exactly why different sets work wonders in ubers.

sorry for being hyped like that, its just that i really enjoy the uber metagame and i would love to see the tier being filled with players just like in OU.
 
exactly, in OU standards are standards, and players new to ubers think its the exactly same has OU, a metagame where everything runs the exactly same thing.

sadly, while running bog standards is effective in ubers, a new player with a bog standard team will have a hard time against players who are used to the uber tier because they know how to counter standards, then again that is exactly why different sets work wonders in ubers.

sorry for being hyped like that, its just that i really enjoy the uber metagame and i would love to see the tier being filled with players just like in OU.
Actually, I think we could benefit from more players in Ubers, since right now it's just trolls and noobs at the bottom, and people with 5 names on the leaderboard at the top. I exaggerate, but not by much.

The thing about Ubers is that there are very few one-trick ponies, so to speak, most Pokemon are quite versatile.

And you're right. I can put together a team of

Lead Deoxys-S / Stallbreaker Giratina-O / Taunt+CM Mewtwo / DD Rayquaza / Kyogre / Scarf Dialga

And I'll probably beat a stall team much of the time, though the matchup depends on what their "wild card" (the Pokemon outside the Groudon/Forretress/Blissey/Giratina-O/Latias or Palkia) core is. If it's Scarfer, I might be kinda boned, because then he stops my strategy of sacrificing Taunt/CM Mewtwo to beat Blissey so that Kyogre can sweep.

But what if, instead of DDRay or Giratina-O, I used something like SubPunch Palkia? Great stallbreaker, since it deals with Groudon via Spacial Rend and Blissey via Focus Punch. This almost completely ensures that my Pokemon of choice can sweep, since the only thing my opponent can do to beat this strategy is to sacrifice a Pokemon to break the Sub and clean up with Latias and Palkia.
 
yes, i agree on that, most ubers can run a massive amount of different set to great sucess, i have being testing sub bulk up focus punch palkia the past days and has being working great since literally everyone expect scarf, in OU running a weird set like that would be considered stupid gimmick, in ubers its just another set on the massive list of sets palkia can run.

the best part about ubers is how fun it is to play, you can run just about anything and is not limited to anything standard, what open endless possiblitys to the kinds of team you can run, in OU most pokemons ARE limited to 1 or 2 sets at maximun if they dont want to be outclassed, but in ubers this is different.

by no means i am saying the standard sets on ubers are not effective, but i consider then only another set on the massive list of sets they can run, nothing else.
 
@Mattman324

The ubers Tier does not undergo as many changes as OU does. I have played Ubers for about 8 months and used the same team over and over again. It has only has one variation (Latias for Shaymin S) which I only did after I put it up for a RMT. The team is still strong and I have beeten some top players with it. since no real new pokemon get added to ubers (and it does not matter if they do enter ubers since you can play with any pokemon except Arceus
In the past, that would be true, and to an extent it's true now. The thing is that a couple of people (Theorymon, ext.) ALWAYS are testing new stuff, and a good portion of that becomes standard. A few standard things are all it takes to completely shift a metagame.

I'll hand a LC example. Someone discovers Scarf Craniados. It's REALLY powerful, and soon Scarf Machop and Crogunk were discovered to defeat it (Actually, they forced it to run ZH, but that ruined it's coverage, making it _slightly_ less threatining.) But then people realised THOSE were powerful, and SubSneak Missy was found. (Of course, that was banned, but that's not the point) Everytime a new threat was found, the metagame shifted. My (limited) experiance in Ubers was somewhat consistant with that.
 
Quite a few players complain that there's no middle ground in Ubers. Either you're a noob or a guy with 5 names on the leaderboard, and this is quite frustrating for the people who are somewhere between the two. When I play (the best I've done is only #29, and that was with a bog standard stall team), I can either own some poor inexperienced player who just threw a team together, or get totally rolled by Jibaku or Train Man. It gets kind of annoying.
Yeah I really suck and am a super n00b but I played once and did pretty shit but the real problem was that no one else was on. I can't remember exactly but I think I went to a Uber group on shoddy and couldn't find a match.

I didn't even know there was an uber subforum until 5 minuets ago * Blushes with embarrassment* But you guys have convinced me to try again with a new team. XD
 
I tried to play ubers for the first time..

sat "finding a match" and finally got bored and went ont to do something else. Kinda frustrating... is there a "best" time to find a match?


2 days later ...case in point to the awesome activity involved with the uber tier...

any best time at all?
 
personally, i think the idea of raising the popularity of uber battles is great!
i've got an uber team and it looks great but i barely ever get to use it because the majority of people who don't do uber battles because no one else does are absolute sheep. so what if no one else does, there is someone who actually does do uber battles, you just need to look in the right places
 

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