The UU Viablity Rankings topic.

PK Gaming

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So after a brief misunderstanding (I won't go into detail)
I've decided to re post the ranking's topic but under a different name.

Under no circumstances are you allowed to talk about tiering. This isn't a tiering discussion, so posts that state "Yanmega isn't broken, it should be allowed in UU" will heavily scrutinized (possibly moderated)
This is ranking's topic and nothing more.

The general idea of the topic is to rank each UU pokemon under "rankings"
(Top, High, Mid, Low, Bottom)

I think that we as a community can strive for a good ranking topic with plenty of discusison.

Without further ado:
(Note the ranking list can (and will) undergo multiple changes.
So far...


Each ranking has a limit on the number of pokemon depending on the rank. The S rank for example only is comprised of the top 5 pokemon in the tier.

THE TIER LIST IS IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER

The Ranks
S Rank
A Rank
B Rank
C Rank
D Rank
E Rank

guidelines provided by Flareblitz

Flareblitz said:
..okay. Since it's apparent that everyone will want their "favorites" moved up until nothing exists in any rank below C, I'm going to try to introduce some objectivity into these proceedings.

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time.

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outclassed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely outclassed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who are simply not very effective in the current metagame.

Some examples of the above. These are just my (educated) opinion, but they should give you an example of what I interpret the ranks to mean:

S Rank: Milotic (Defensive), Registeel (Defensive), Uxie (Support), Venusaur (Versatile)
A Rank: Moltres (Offensive), Donphan (Defensive), Clefable (Support), Rotom (Versatile)
B Rank: Magmortar (Offensive), Slowbro/king (Defensive), Dugtrio (Support)
C Rank: Charizard (Offensive), Tangrowth (Defensive), Venomoth (Support)
D Rank: Nidoking (Offensive), Bastiodon (Defensive), Wigglytuff (Support)
Just an example.




Ranking's list V2


S Rank
Registeel
Venusaur
Rhyperior
Milotic
Mismagius
Arcanine
Uxie


A rank
Moltres
Donphan
Spiritomb
Ambipom
Swellow
Alakazam
Kabutops



B Rank
Scyther
Blaziken
Omastar
Hitmonlee
Mesprit
Luddicolo
Houndoom
Absol
Rotom
Steelix
Drapion
Hitmontop
Sceptile
Dugtrio
Toxicroak
Clefable
Chansey
Azumarill
Torterra
Feraligatr
Slowbro
Hariyama
Jynx
Tangrowth
Magmortar
Slowking
Cradily
Blastoise


C Rank

Lanturn
Nidoking
Cloyster
Quilfish
Gorebyss
Articuno
Aggron
Charizard
Poliwrath
Golduck
Typhlosion
Jumpluff
Raichu
Venomoth
Ursaring
Poliwrath
Claydol

D Rank
Drifblim
Nidoqueen
Lopunny
Kingler
Illumise

E rank



Rules
~Clear concise post. No "I think pokemon X should be this"
~No flaming. Everyone has opinions.
~Doug's statisitics may be used as an aid, but not factual. You can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used!" (Although the fact that a sheer number of people use Froslass/Raikou etc indicate that said pokemon is a force to be reckoned with)
~Again, no talk about tier lists.


Happy posting.
 
Hooray

How about Chansey on high? UU's version (and prevolution) of Blissey, it's basically the only special wall used (other than Registeel, which is more of a mixed wall). Speaking of which, Registeel should also be on high because of the team support it provides (Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, general walling).
 

PK Gaming

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Hooray

How about Chansey on high? UU's version (and prevolution) of Blissey, it's basically the only special wall used (other than Registeel, which is more of a mixed wall). Speaking of which, Registeel should also be on high because of the team support it provides (Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, general walling).
Agreed, Registeel definetely deserves it's spot on high as it extremely versatile. However I do have an objection against Chansey. Unlike Blissey
Chansey's options aren't as diverse as Blissey. It's harder to use than Registeel, (who can be used on many teams without fault) and occupies a very niche role.

I actually think Clefable is better at being a team player. Walling special attacks, encoring and the like. It's a lot more versatile (possible THE most versatile in all of UU) and can use other sets.

In short:
I think Chansey deserves to be in mid, Clefable and Registeel in High.

Agree? Disagree?
 
I think Uxie qualifies as top tier without question - you can ask almost anything support-wise of the floating psychic and he'll do it. Rocks, Screens, U-turn, Yawn, Rain Dance, everything. He has tremendous bulk too, enough so that you can use him to scout your opponents moves. If it got Recover I bet it'd vault straight into OU. Also Registeel is an awesome tank, walling a huge portion of the metagame. I think it deserves to be top tier.

I also think Scyther doesn't deserve to be top tier. It's a powerful sweeper, but its Stealth Rock weakness, poor defenses (relative to Moltres, anyway) and inability to sweep through some Pokemon hinder it. Absol has its uses, but being so slow as well as unable to switch into almost anything aside from psychic attacks seriously hurt it; I think it should be mid tier. Slowbro is a good wall, taking physical attacks a lot better than Milotic. Although I too use Milotic as a matter of preference, I think Slowbro is at least mid tier and possibly high tier.

Otherwise Golduck and Slowing aren't UU; are we counting NU's as well?
 
Sure, Chansey could be Mid.

Why not make Poliwrath Mid, too? I have used its SubPunch set pretty well, but it is walled by a bunch of things, including Slowbro, Uxie, etc.
 

PK Gaming

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I think Uxie qualifies as top tier without question - you can ask almost anything support-wise of the floating psychic and he'll do it. Rocks, Screens, U-turn, Yawn, Rain Dance, everything. He has tremendous bulk too, enough so that you can use him to scout your opponents moves. If it got Recover I bet it'd vault straight into OU. Also Registeel is an awesome tank, walling a huge portion of the metagame. I think it deserves to be top tier.

I also think Scyther doesn't deserve to be top tier. It's a powerful sweeper, but its Stealth Rock weakness, poor defenses (relative to Moltres, anyway) and inability to sweep through some Pokemon hinder it. Absol has its uses, but being so slow as well as unable to switch into almost anything aside from psychic attacks seriously hurt it; I think it should be mid tier. Slowbro is a good wall, taking physical attacks a lot better than Milotic. Although I too use Milotic as a matter of preference, I think Slowbro is at least mid tier and possibly high tier.

Otherwise Golduck and Slowing aren't UU; are we counting NU's as well?
Excellent points. I agree with most of them.
Originally, i had a rule in place for ONLY UU pokemon to be ranked, but some NU's can be pretty powerful in UU. (Golduck itself has it's own niche) some good NU's that come to mind: Miltank, Magmortar, Jumpfull etc.

I think Absol's ability to wreck stall is extremely handy. Sure it's frail (it's not THAT slow) but one SD (ONE) can put you in an extremely difficult situation.
 
I don't understand the point of this? Surely the useage statistics give people enough idea of what are the best UU's to use, instead of arbitrarily positioning them into categories like this. If anything, you could take the list of the most used on the UU ladder, and break them up into these ranks. It would save you having to position everything individually, and you could focus on where the cutoff for each rank would be.
 

PK Gaming

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I don't understand the point of this? Surely the useage statistics give people enough idea of what are the best UU's to use, instead of arbitrarily positioning them into categories like this. If anything, you could take the list of the most used on the UU ladder, and break them up into these ranks. It would save you having to position everything individually, and you could focus on where the cutoff for each rank would be.
2reasons:

~It's extremely outdated.
~It's better this way. More discussion in my opinion.



Anyway, anyone think that Leafeon should be High mid tier?
It can run a powerful offensive set that has few counters, or it can be purely defensive. It's sky high defense stat, coupled with wish make it hard to take down.
 
Obvious ones from the usage to discuss are
Mismagius, Arcanine, Donphan, Hitmontop, Rhyperior, Spiritomb, Azumarill, Alakazam
That will do for now.
I propose:
Top: Mismagius (seems obvious to me)
High: Donphan (excellent physical wall and rapid spinner), Spiritomb (best spin blocker, possible CM sweep and curse sets are great), Hitmontop (best rapid spinner IMHO, also the best check to rain teams)

I think Registeel deserves top tier, it really is the glue of so many team, a vital check to raikou, swellow. One of only a few viable steel types in UU.

I also thing Golduck, Slowking, Aggron should move down a rank. Im not sure we should consider NUs and there is no way Aggron is on a level with Chansey, the only true counter to Moltres. + i think we should be harsh at the top to distinguish.

On a slightly different issue; i think this sort of thing has been done before in other subforums. If you could put a link to that in your opening post and tell people to read it, it would help guide discussion on this thread
 
2reasons:

~It's extremely outdated.
~It's better this way. More discussion in my opinion.
Or you can just use the pre-ducks statistics which is like the same basic metagame you will be playing once the ladder is reset. I also agree that this topic has little merit. Trying to promote discussion on this subforum is a bad idea anyway lol.

That being said, so this post isn't completely off-topic, Donphan and Omastar should obviously be top to high tier because of their abilities to set up entry hazards and wall a shit-ton of the metagame. Tangrowth IMO is a high tier mon because contrary to its usage statistics, it is the best physical wall in the tier, and the only one capable of single-handedly beating the two of the strongest rain sweepers, Kabutops and SD Ludicolo.

Oh, and Weezing deserves an honorable mention too as a good Pokemon, with its variety of support moves and vast attacking movepool (Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Sludge Bomb, EXPLOSION).
 
But it will be updated this month.... and there's plenty of discussion in the other threads.. mainly the NP: UU one which is generally there to talk about UU in general and useful 'mons, trends etc... I just don't get what extra discussion you can get out of a topic like this than what isn't already being disussed in the statistics thread or the UU sticky.
 
I've never really used leafeon but it seems to be strong enough to make that ranking.

On another note I believe Rotom deserves be somewhere from High mid tier to mid high tier. It can serve as an excellent spinblocker it has good typing and it is notable as one of the few pokemon that can reliably revenge kill moltres.
 
Jumpluff definitely deserves to be on this list. I'd say at least Mid, possibly High. SubSeed + Encore, double-status with Sleep Powder/Stun Spore, scouting with U-turn, and some handy resists + immunity to Ground make for a very annoying Pokemon that I love to use. On a similar vein, Lopunny should also be at least Mid for having the same access to Encore, scouting and stat-passing with Baton Pass, and the useful Klutz + Switcharoo combo.

Dugtrio I believe deserves Mid as well. Arena Trap is very useful for taking out problematic Pokemon such as Registeel, Raikou, and others, but its frailty plus only decent Attack stat makes it difficult to switch in in the first place.

We should probably include Parasect since it's the only Pokemon in the tier that gets the 100% accurate Spore, but I wouldn't include it in any tier other than Bottom. It's simply too slow to be able to do what it wants, plus it has pretty bad defensive and offensive typing.
 

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I think a lot of this is summarized by Doug stats tbh, but it's interesting nevertheless to have something like this up, in which people can discuss the usefulness of many pokés instead of focusing in one only.

Anyways, I disagree with Slowking being on the Low category. Slowking can really find it's niche as an inverted defenses Slowbro, which would be more fit to countering stuff like Moltres, while detaining the title of the most efficient Bulky Water poké when countering Blaziken and an all around great poké for stall and Trick Room, where it can abuse its exclusive Nasty Plot. I'd rate it as a Mid Tier poké.

Milotic ain't a top tier poké? It's the most used bulky water poké, walls shitloads of the metagame, has access to recovery, can find its way on literally any team, from offense to stall and has an ability any Slowbro would die for.
 

PK Gaming

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Obvious ones from the usage to discuss are
Mismagius, Arcanine, Donphan, Hitmontop, Rhyperior, Spiritomb, Azumarill, Alakazam
That will do for now.
I propose:
Top: Mismagius (seems obvious to me)
High: Donphan (excellent physical wall and rapid spinner), Spiritomb (best spin blocker, possible CM sweep and curse sets are great), Hitmontop (best rapid spinner IMHO, also the best check to rain teams)

I think Registeel deserves top tier, it really is the glue of so many team, a vital check to raikou, swellow. One of only a few viable steel types in UU.

I also thing Golduck, Slowking, Aggron should move down a rank. Im not sure we should consider NUs and there is no way Aggron is on a level with Chansey, the only true counter to Moltres. + i think we should be harsh at the top to distinguish.

On a slightly different issue; i think this sort of thing has been done before in other subforums. If you could put a link to that in your opening post and tell people to read it, it would help guide discussion on this thread
Aggron in low?

Sure he was hyped like hell but he's still a damn fine pokemon to use.
Unprepared teams are utterly swept. Agreed with the other posts though.

Can you link me to the topic then?


Or you can just use the pre-ducks statistics which is like the same basic metagame you will be playing once the ladder is reset. I also agree that this topic has little merit. Trying to promote discussion on this subforum is a bad idea anyway lol.
This subforum has shown me time and time again that next to anything can spark discussion.

That being said, so this post isn't completely off-topic, Donphan and Omastar should obviously be top to high tier because of their abilities to set up entry hazards and wall a shit-ton of the metagame. Tangrowth IMO is a high tier mon because contrary to its usage statistics, it is the best physical wall in the tier, and the only one capable of single-handedly beating the two of the strongest rain sweepers, Kabutops and SD Ludicolo.
Thanks. I agree with both your points about Donphan and Tangrowth but Omastar seems borderline top. Definetely high tier though.

Oh, and Weezing deserves an honorable mention too as a good Pokemon, with its variety of support moves and vast attacking movepool (Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Sludge Bomb, EXPLOSION).
It's defensive typing coupled with it's ability makes a fantastic wall. High tier for sure.

Jumpluff definitely deserves to be on this list. I'd say at least Mid, possibly High. SubSeed + Encore, double-status with Sleep Powder/Stun Spore, scouting with U-turn, and some handy resists + immunity to Ground make for a very annoying Pokemon that I love to use. On a similar vein, Lopunny should also be at least Mid for having the same access to Encore, scouting and stat-passing with Baton Pass, and the useful Klutz + Switcharoo combo.
Agreed with Jumpfull, it's a menace in UU. I don't think Lopunny deserves mid though, it's not as useful as the pokemon in mid tier. It's got it's on niche though.

Dugtrio I believe deserves Mid as well. Arena Trap is very useful for taking out problematic Pokemon such as Registeel, Raikou, and others, but its frailty plus only decent Attack stat makes it difficult to switch in in the first place.
Arena trap alone is high tier. It's extremely useful for that regard. It can't switch in but who cares? It's a revenge killer, and a good one at that.

We should probably include Parasect since it's the only Pokemon in the tier that gets the 100% accurate Spore, but I wouldn't include it in any tier other than Bottom. It's simply too slow to be able to do what it wants, plus it has pretty bad defensive and offensive typing.
I suppose so.


I think a lot of this is summarized by Doug stats tbh, but it's interesting nevertheless to have something like this up, in which people can discuss the usefulness of many pokés instead of focusing in one only.

Anyways, I disagree with Slowking being on the Low category. Slowking can really find it's niche as an inverted defenses Slowbro, which would be more fit to countering stuff like Moltres, while detaining the title of the most efficient Bulky Water poké when countering Blaziken and an all around great poké for stall and Trick Room, where it can abuse its exclusive Nasty Plot. I'd rate it as a Mid Tier poké.

Milotic ain't a top tier poké? It's the most used bulky water poké, walls shitloads of the metagame, has access to recovery, can find its way on literally any team, from offense to stall and has an ability any Slowbro would die for.
Duly noted.
 
Fighting priority is very common in UU (blaziken, toxicroak, hitmontop, hitmonlee) and it can still be stopped by donphan, claydol, slowbro (?). Also, alot can sweep an unprepared team; for example, my beloved Venomoth.
That said maybe holding it there isnt wrong at the moment. (tbh i think the way we have set about this we arent going to have much of a low tier

Which reminds me; Toxicroak = high/mid. Im not going to rate Hitmonlee i have a minority view on it.

Ill try and find the topic, ill messgae it to you if i can.
 

PK Gaming

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Fighting priority is very common in UU (blaziken, toxicroak, hitmontop, hitmonlee) and it can still be stopped by donphan, claydol, slowbro (?). Also, alot can sweep an unprepared team; for example, my beloved Venomoth.
That said maybe holding it there isnt wrong at the moment. (tbh i think the way we have set about this we arent going to have much of a low tier

Which reminds me; Toxicroak = high/mid. Im not going to rate Hitmonlee i have a minority view on it.

Ill try and find the topic, ill messgae it to you if i can.
Venomoth actually isn't that bad in UU. It can be quite useful imo. (Tinted Lens is a FANTASTIC ability
Top of low or possibly even mid.

Toxicroaks pretty awesome too.
 
Well there is no doubt about it;
Venomoth is simply in a class of its own =P

Alakazam high
Azumarill high
Clefable mid-high
Steelix mid
Sceptile high
 

PK Gaming

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Well there is no doubt about it;
Venomoth is simply in a class of its own =P

Alakazam high
Azumarill high
Clefable mid-high
Steelix mid
Sceptile high
Agree with all of those. It's interesting to see Steelix in mid. In the early days, I recall him being one of the best UU pokemon.
 
Are you talking about the early days when he and leafeon had just dropped down? Because back then those two would have been the top two by themselves.
His unique typing lets him deal with specific threats, but they are specific and prevents him from being in a higher category. Plus, Registeel takes some of his business.

Umbreon Mid
Feraligatr Mid
Altaria Mid

(yes i am working my way down DougJustDoug's list)

EDIT: Actually there is an interesting idea; put our list (when we are done) next to DougJustDoug's usage stats. See if our top 15 (however many we have in the top category) correlate to his top 15. If they dont we discuss why.
 

PK Gaming

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Are you talking about the early days when he and leafeon had just dropped down? Because back then those two would have been the top two by themselves.
His unique typing lets him deal with specific threats, but they are specific and prevents him from being in a higher category. Plus, Registeel takes some of his business.

Umbreon Mid
Feraligatr Mid
Altaria Mid

(yes i am working my way down DouJustDoug's list)

Woah there, Umbreon is waaaay to low. Curse Umbreon is a HUGE threat to the metagame. Once it's counters are gone it's gg.
It should be in high.

Feraligatr good in mid I guess. High mid seems fair.
Altaria (despite it's hype) is a good pokemon. (simply that)
 
Toxicroak: High --> Mid. As cool as this guy is, he really is too frail to set up on anything but Rain teams and is not strong enough to sweep.

Houndoom: High. Houndoom has the ability to absolutely destroy all types of teams with its mixed NP set while also being able to fend off revenge killers.

Scyther: High. Scyther's SD and CB sets are both exceptional. It's CB set always grants you momentum, and SD allows Scyther to pull off a sweep with its awesome type-coverage. This metagame is hugely Scyther-weak at the moment.

Rhyperior: High. CB destroys teams, and SS wall is too manly to take down. What else can you say about something with 140 Atk.

I like this concept. Stats are almost always slightly flawed for some reason or another. Subjective Consensus > Flawed Objectivity.
 

PK Gaming

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Toxicroak: High --> Mid. As cool as this guy is, he really is too frail to set up on anything but Rain teams and is not strong enough to sweep.

Houndoom: High. Houndoom has the ability to absolutely destroy all types of teams with its mixed NP set while also being able to fend off revenge killers.

Scyther: High. Scyther's SD and CB sets are both exceptional. It's CB set always grants you momentum, and SD allows Scyther to pull off a sweep with its awesome type-coverage. This metagame is hugely Scyther-weak at the moment.

Rhyperior: High. CB destroys teams, and SS wall is too manly to take down. What else can you say about something with 140 Atk.

I like this concept. Stats are almost always slightly flawed for some reason or another. Subjective Consensus > Flawed Objectivity.
Oh I know. When Scyther gets a SD your basically cooked, and Scyther's are almost always run with a spinner.

I can see your point about Toxicroak though and I've always thought the Rhyperior hovered around high/top.
 
I suppose Umbreon is high, i just dont seem him used very well very often. but Feraligatr can be deadly too after a DD/SD so he might be mid-high.


EDIT: Actually there is an interesting idea; put our list (when we are done) next to DougJustDoug's usage stats. See if our top 15 (however many we have in the top category) correlate to his top 15. If they dont we discuss why.
Quoted incase people missed it.

Drapion high-mid (probs high, i see him like umbreon often not used well, offers to do more than he can)
Claydol mid
Rotom high
Kabutops top (can't believe we forgot all the rainers)



Mid
Chansey
Aggron
Steelix
Poliwrath
Slowking
Jumpfluff
Haha, That is so my new nickname for Jumpluff. It may have been accidental but it is still brilliant, dont change it.
 
Kabutops --> High/ top: Obvious as hell he's a pain to take out under rainy conditions.

Ludicolo --> High/ top: Same as Kabutops with the exception that he can wield both a special and physical offensive set as well as being a complete annoyer with a defensive set.

Qwilfish: High/ top: same as Kabutops

EDIT: Flashbolt, you beated me to it ^^
 

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