Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[658Greninja]

I normally don’t do these type of posts, but it has to be said.

FUCK KYUREM​

This thing might honestly be the most braindead poke as of right now and it needs to be the first priority for a suspect.

Reason #1 Specs go brr/Insanely bulky under Snow
Specs 2HKOs nearly the entire tier, and Tera Ice is another level of bullshit. When paired with Gking it becomes unreasonably bulky, so you can’t really use the excuse that “its slow and can be threatened out” argument.

252 Atk Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem in Snow: 270-320 (69 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem in Snow: 288-338 (73.6 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Here we see Kyurem live a Close Combat from two base 120 and 130 Atk fighting types.

Volcarona ain’t doing much better either.

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 306-360 (81.8 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 304-358 (97.7 - 115.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

This set is used on Boots spam teams. Cause it doesn’t matter if it eats 25% from SR, something dies whenever it comes in. Also for some fucked up reason, Kyurem’s freeze procs more consistently than fucking Scald.

Reason #2: Too versatile
By the way, Kyurem has two other sets that are just as broken. Heavy Duty Boots lets you bypass the need of prediction and just steamroll teams without needing to worry about SR. If your worried about Volc, just plop in Stone Edge. You really don’t need Draco here when Ice Beam/Freeze Dry/EP hits everything else.

56- Atk Kyurem Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Volcarona: 376-444 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Then you have Dragon Dance. DD, Spear, Tera Ground/Fire, Scale Shot. Hell you can even invalidate Dozo by slotting in Freeze Dry, Cause you’re Kyurem.

Predict wrong, you get 6-0d. Predict right, you get 6-0d anyways. There is minimal drawback to running Kyu, and its presence is close to SS Magearna.

Reason #3: Easy switch in opportunities
You would think that an Ice/Dragon type would not find much opportunities to come in but, it absolutely does. Usually with pivots like Gking, Cinder, or Meow. Ice weak mons normally scared out by Kyurem like Gliscor, Zapdos, or Ting-Lu. Hell you could just lead with it and only a select few things could actually 1v1 it. Even using it myself feels disgusting. Despite worse hazard removal and losing Roost in Gen 9, its arguably more broken than it was in SS. No Melmetal, no Scizor with Roost, no Scarf Lele to scare it off. It got Tera to either make its Ice moves into nukes or Tera to make use of a DD set.

Benefits to banning Kyurem
Banning Kyu would open up teambuilding easier. No more needing a Steel or Fire type with Gking or slapping Volc on a team and hoping it doesn’t click Draco. It would also allow more helpful dragons to find a slot like Hydrapple with its bulk + Regen, and Raging Bolt with Electric Sucker Punch.

The tier is also not short of strong wallbreakers. Weavile is another ice type with strong dual STABs that could be a sub for Kyu.

Right now I am finding teambuilding very stale.

Gking/Skarm/Ting-Lu/Volc/Fast Knock/Breaker

This has pretty much been all my teams and we could use some variety.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

...Also poll, what's the weakest hazard in your opinion right now.

this might be a controversial opinion but i think webs. spikes are obviously the strongest and rocks have a massive reward for being able to set them up in one turn, so those aren't even worth considering for this question in my opinion. toxic spikes is probably the least-run hazard move right now, but that's because we have a mon that sets them automatically if played properly, so there's no longer a need to spend an entire moveslot on them anymore. the hazard itself is still quite strong, with even 1 layer being great for immediate chip damage. webs have gotten a lot worse since dlc1 because of the sheer amount of new stuff that fucks over ribombee, as evidenced by the fact that it fell hard out of ou. the other new webs setters—smeargle, galvantula, and araquanid—are niche at best

 

[Taka]

I mean, defensive Tusk outside of Stall is as terrible as ChainChomp, so not really the best example of a common Mon to beat.

The example there was just max hp, that’s just standard Tusk spread with max HP max speed.

Thoughts on Bolt in the current meta? What do you like about it and what’s ur fav team w it?

 

[NotDaProGamer]

Smorgon Bingo Card
(make your own here)

 

[tommytt22]

I agree that special/mixed blaziken is underrated, but shouldn't you use flamethrower and invest some more ev's in sp.A? Your calcs show that it is kinda overkill on cc, and flamethrower allows for consistency, which is better on blaziken for a sweep.

12 SpA Life Orb Blaziken Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Valiant: 208-246 (71.9 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
244 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 382-452 (99.7 - 118%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
244 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 277-328 (92 - 108.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
12 SpA Life Orb Blaziken Flamethrower vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Gliscor: 173-204 (49.1 - 57.9%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
12 SpA Life Orb Blaziken Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 227-269 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This is if you invest limited ev's, I would probably more do a Rash nature.
12+ SpA Life Orb Blaziken Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 251-296 (57.8 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
12+ SpA Life Orb Blaziken Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 156-185 (51.8 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
12+ SpA Life Orb Blaziken Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 165-195 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I still think this is a great set, but you kinda are limiting blaziken's opportunities with overheat. Flamethrower is more consistent, or you could do fire blast for great power but poor accuracy.

Yeah nah flamthrower misses the point of this set. Gliscor and Tusk ohko you back with earthquake you need to remove them in 1 turn. Speed boost doesn't go away like unburden if you need to use overheat twice just switch out.

>The name of his set is Lebron James
>The set is ass

What did he meant by this



Mix sets in general are not very good, your often sacrifice a lot just to get one mon, ans most of the time you dont even do that, its better to just maximize what you actually can do instead of pretending

With that said, mix rain abuser dnite is the exception, espeed, thunder, eq and hurricane, shits on most rain answers

Huh?? Theres a LOT of pokemon that run mixed. Even tauros used to run fire blast with 40 spA because it hit skarmory/ steelix harder than its best physical move. Valiant spent most of it's life running moonblast/Close Combat. mega diancie back in the day was moonblast/ diamond storm even though it had power gem. deoxys speed sometimes runs superpower. tyrantitar had crazy mixed set options before it fell off. I know you have a vendetta against chainchomp, i remember you ranting about it back then but this is apples and oranges. that thing was a hazard setter it was never designed to wallbreak/ sweep, just throw up spikes and deal more damage to tusk with draco than dragon claw could. blaziken is quite a lot spicier with 110 spA than garchomp

 

[Karxrida]

this might be a controversial opinion but i think webs. spikes are obviously the strongest and rocks have a massive reward for being able to set them up in one turn, so those aren't even worth considering for this question in my opinion. toxic spikes is probably the least-run hazard move right now, but that's because we have a mon that sets them automatically if played properly, so there's no longer a need to spend an entire moveslot on them anymore. the hazard itself is still quite strong, with even 1 layer being great for immediate chip damage. webs have gotten a lot worse since dlc1 because of the sheer amount of new stuff that fucks over ribombee, as evidenced by the fact that it fell hard out of ou. the other new webs setters—smeargle, galvantula, and araquanid—are niche at best

imo the issue with Toxic Spikes is that Poison damage usually doesn't accumulate fast enough to justify using it, plus it can stop you from inflicting other status on grounded Pokémon. I'd argue Webs is stronger in a vacuum, it's just way more inconsistent because you're consolidating your entire game plan around a single hazard going up, staying up, and meaningfully affecting the opponent's team.

 

[YubelVT]

View attachment 588306
Smorgon Bingo Card
(make your own here)

I am not a pecharunt believer. Other than its defense, all of its stats are marginally better than Glalie. I'm honestly glad pecharunt will be bad because that signature move seems super annoying to play against

 

[AKArien]

Chainchomp Pre DLC1 was the most overrated mon in this gen, because it was spammed so much it became the standard set, and thus, it lost the lure magic, it was bad in everything overall and was only used to secure rocks vs tusk (which is fairly easy to do in the first place). Once it regained Scale Shot and SD sets were put on the map again, it became better overall, but don't let the revisionism fool you, it sucked

252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 360-425 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Doesn't even kill if rocks are down and it's only a 6.3% roll to kill, this is fucking pathethic and people were simping for this shit

i do indeed simp for ChainChomp, and though it's not as great as in past gens, it's still an exageration to be called "fucking pathetic". It still gets KOes, and ChainChomp was never really about winning every 1v1, but about forcing things to switch in and forcing uncomfortable damage. Which, hey, it does against tusk, lando, gliscor, and pretty much anything that isn't called ting-lu.
Yes, it's not quite suited out for OU anymore, at my great dismay, with all the broken stuff of gen 9 as competition and threats, because it was already so easy to threaten out before the dlc, and though i'm not quite up to date with the tier, just looking at the list doesn't make it sound too much better...

 

[Cuddly]

View attachment 588306
Smorgon Bingo Card
(make your own here)

I am not a pecharunt believer. Other than its defense, all of its stats are marginally better than Glalie. I'm honestly glad pecharunt will be bad because that signature move seems super annoying to play against

I predict that Pecharunt will be UU and usable in OU. It’s faster than Great Tusk and can survive a Headlong Rush without investment.
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pecharunt: 264-312 (83 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
It has movepool issues for attacking but Recover/Malignant Chain/Night Shade/Parting Shot sounds pretty solid.

 

[YubelVT]

I predict that Pecharunt will be UU and usable in OU. It’s faster than Great Tusk and can survive a Headlong Rush without investment.
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pecharunt: 264-312 (83 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
It has movepool issues for attacking but Recover/Malignant Chain/Night Shade/Parting Shot sounds pretty solid.

I think pecharunt will be untiered with an amount of niches and analyses rivaling gen 8 gastrodon. It's not gonna be genuinely good in any tier (bar maybe ZU) but I bet it's gonna have things it's worth using for in every tier

 

[Edu]

I see the same ppl saying Aegi would be quick ban once it get toxic back in last gen saying that Terapagos should stay back in OU

 

[Heatranator]

View attachment 588306
Smorgon Bingo Card
(make your own here)

I mean, half of these have already happened so I think we've already gotten bingo. At least the hot take one has happened already.

I think pecharunt will be untiered with an amount of niches and analyses rivaling gen 8 gastrodon. It's not gonna be genuinely good in any tier (bar maybe ZU) but I bet it's gonna have things it's worth using for in every tier

I kindly disagree, that 160 defense is insane. Combine that with toxic + poison puppeteer, a 100% accurate poison and confusing move, and this mon is going to be annoying to deal with. It can't do anything to gliscor, but anything else not named gambit is going to hurt. Even ghold can get hit hard by shadow ball on the switch.
0 SpA Pecharunt Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 168-200 (44.4 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Most other things get destroyed by shadow ball or get bullied by toxic. But I could be wrong and this becomes calyrex except it doesn't have a big noggin, making it worse.

 

[Cuddly]

I think pecharunt will be untiered with an amount of niches and analyses rivaling gen 8 gastrodon. It's not gonna be genuinely good in any tier (bar maybe ZU) but I bet it's gonna have things it's worth using for in every tier

You know what, you’re right. What value is there in using a Pokemon with 88/160/88 bulk, a 100 BP 50% chance to badly poison signature move, Poison/Ghost with reliable recovery and Parting Shot?

I mean, half of these have already happened so I think we've already gotten bingo. At least the hot take one has happened already.

I kindly disagree, that 160 defense is insane. Combine that with toxic + poison puppeteer, a 100% accurate poison and confusing move, and this mon is going to be annoying to deal with. It can't do anything to gliscor, but anything else not named gambit is going to hurt. Even ghold can get hit hard by shadow ball on the switch.
0 SpA Pecharunt Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 168-200 (44.4 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Most other things get destroyed by shadow ball or get bullied by toxic. But I could be wrong and this becomes calyrex except it doesn't have a big noggin, making it worse.

Pecharunt can Hex Gliscor and can tank its Earthquakes pretty nicely.
In fact scratch what I said earlier Hex is definitely better as an option than Night Shade.

 

[EpicGuy321]

I think pecharunt will be untiered with an amount of niches and analyses rivaling gen 8 gastrodon. It's not gonna be genuinely good in any tier (bar maybe ZU) but I bet it's gonna have things it's worth using for in every tier

you are going to lose to Pecharunt many times

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

View attachment 588306
Smorgon Bingo Card
(make your own here)

i was going to make a bingo card just for bans, but there weren't enough mons under consideration for bans. then i realized there's two ways to leave ou

 

[YubelVT]

I see the same ppl saying Aegi would be quick ban once it get toxic back in last gen saying that Terapagos should stay back in OU

I don't think anyone is saying terapogos should come back? That thing is kinda really good in ubers and was obscene in OU

you are going to lose to Pecharunt many times

I put heatran on basically every team I think I'll be fine

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

blaziken is quite a lot spicier with 110 spA than garchomp

wait what the fuck, when did blaziken get 110 spa. i swear it always had like 90 at best. ok, mixed blaziken may not be as ridiculous an idea as i initially thought

 

[Heatranator]

Man, low ladder is insane. When testing one of my gimmick teams, I came across a team with only a ludicolo. And it was swords dance. Wtf

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Man, low ladder is insane. When testing one of my gimmick teams, I came across a team with only a ludicolo. And it was swords dance. Wtf

>this guy doesn't know about the secret solocolo tech

 

[kosecant]

I am not a pecharunt believer. Other than its defense, all of its stats are marginally better than Glalie. I'm honestly glad pecharunt will be bad because that signature move seems super annoying to play against

idk man, every poison move inflicting confuse on a defensive Pokémon sounds hellish to face. It may not be OU material, but I have a feeling it’s gonna be incredibly obnoxious on stall

 

[j0nathan]

Smorgon Bingo Card
(make your own here)

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

View attachment 588351

you missed zacian-crowned, it can't even hold an item, c- tier at the absolute highest

 

[scourgesys]

so like... swagger is banned for being heavily luck-based and, therefore, uncompetitive. what is the basis behind the notion that wont just get banned for the same reason? a mon with not only a 100% accurate confusion+bad poison move in toxic, but also a 100 base power move with a 50% additional chance to confuse+badly poison, sounds like unreasonable abuse of the confusion mechanic and i dont see how that would be welcome in a competitive environment that tries to maximise the importance of skill and minimise the importance of random chance. its not that its "too strong", but just too reliant on an uncompetitive mechanic. am i crazy? is this thing just going to get banned no questions asked, or am i wrong and theres actually a case to be made in its defense?

 

[Heatranator]

so like... swagger is banned for being heavily luck-based and, therefore, uncompetitive. what is the basis behind the notion that wont just get banned for the same reason? a mon with not only a 100% accurate confusion+bad poison move in toxic, but also a 100 base power move with a 50% additional chance to confuse+badly poison, sounds like unreasonable abuse of the confusion mechanic and i dont see how that would be welcome in a competitive environment that tries to maximise the importance of skill and minimise the importance of random chance. its not that its "too strong", but just too reliant on an uncompetitive mechanic. am i crazy? is this thing just going to get banned no questions asked, or am i wrong and theres actually a case to be made in its defense?

Depends on how it actually fits into the metagame. Gambit and to some extent ghold stuff it quite a lot. If this thing can't poison something, it can't do much against them. There should be some amount of luck in any game, otherwise it would be boring and playing around luck is itself a skill, but if it wins games by itself, that's when it is a problem.
We just have to see if it will be broken or not, I say test it and after a week, hold a survey for if it should get banned. I'm not a council member, so we genuinely don't know unless they say so or not.

 

[peepeepoopoo722]

Guys i found the real bingo card ........