Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Suspect]

You my friend are goated with the sauce keep fighting the good fight, I apologize for all my unbanning hatred I am actually on the drop uber train myself and will forever vouch for big Ho-Oh in the tier as well as Lugia.
I don't see any world where freaking Ho-oh would not be broken in OU. It has an actual high attacking stat unlike Lugia and has cracked bulk for an offensive mon. Just 'cause Dondozo walls it doesn't make it balanced in OU.

As for Lugia, I can see the justification for a test in OU, but I don't think it'd stay because it can actually sweep shit in OU with Calm Mind. I guess it'd be useless against stall, but something being well handled by stall doesn't necessarily make it balanced.
 

Mimikyu Stardust

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I created a team solely to counter Rain:

https://pokepast.es/99ef6482fdd1e90a

Water Absorb :Ogerpon-wellspring: + Unaware :Clodsire: are a nice double wall for :Barraskewda: and :Archaludon:, or :floatzel: and :kingdra:

Unaware :Clefable: with Cosmic Power for :Raging Bolt: and Tera Ground to wall :Archaludon:

:Rillaboom: to revenge kill :Barraskewda:

:choice specs: :kyurem: messes with :Raging Bolt:, :Archaludon:, :Iron Treads:, :Pelipper:, and :Barraskewda:. Tera Fairy makes :kyurem: immune to :raging bolt:’s Dragon Pulse and negates :barraskewda:’s Close Combat.

:Sableye: with Prankster to quickly burn :Barraskewda: or take away Rain. Tera Water to tank Liquidation better.
You have no switchin to specs torn
 
Speaking of outrageous speed tiers, did you know D-Speed is actually able to outspeed the entire unboosted tier with only a + speed nature? No EVs even required.
…wait, that might actually be huge. that means you can put 252 evs into both attacking stats without needing to worry about the speed trade-off, which means you get to fully experience the mixed-sweeper lifestyle and outspeed the 104-ev-neutral-nature deo-s sets that are only ev'd to speed creep pult by 1 point. i don't know whether it'll actually pan out, but this is a fascinating find!
 
also besides Arch, I don't really see anything else happening this gen in OU unless something drops from Ubers
To be fair, it's never too late for someone to generate a new set that breaks a mon. Seems unlikely just now, most mons seem mostly solved for non-gimmicky sets.

I need to play a bit more tbh, not played ladder for a couple weeks, but things don't seem to have changed overly much. Time to get to building!
 
The fact that Tera not getting banned singlehandedly derailed this entire generation but we keep trying to plug the leaks and banning individual Pokémon instead of revisiting it has probably been the worst decision we’ve made since release tbh.
This perspective fascinates me. Do people really think that all of these bans have been due to Tera? And do people really think we wouldn’t end up banning a lot of Pokémon regardless of if Tera was gone? We’re not banning Pokémon to keep Tera around; a majority of the banned threats would be just as good if not better with Tera gone considering sometimes their only solid defensive counteplay involves clever use of your own Tera.
 
LET'S FUCKING GO THEY FINALLY SAID IT OUT LOUD
But they said "at this time", maybe they'll change their mind by next week [/sarcasm]

Unfortunately the convo will arise again. Steering away from that and linking back to my previous post, has anyone seen or built any out of the ordinary sets that they feel have potential? The weirder the better xD
 
Give it a week, and people will already be talking about ubers drops again.
Unfortunately the convo will arise again.
i don't think it will. unless i missed something, this was the first time an actual council member, speaking on behalf of the entire council (at least, that's what i assume the "we" means), came out and gave a firm "no" to the topic. said council member also happens to have the power to delete posts and force the discussion to stop if it starts again
 

Finchinator

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Archaludon is pretty clearly broken in my eyes. It snowballs out of control too easily, its true counters do not exist outside of Clodsire, and checks are too circumstantial/unreliable to be enough. It is one of the biggest reasons why teambuilding is down bad right now. I will make a more detailed post in the thread when it opens.
 
i don't think it will. unless i missed something, this was the first time an actual council member, speaking on behalf of the entire council (at least, that's what i assume the "we" means), came out and gave a firm "no" to the topic. said council member also happens to have the power to delete posts and force the discussion to stop if it starts again
Fair, but that doesn't mean people are going to listen. At some point, they are going to spam uber drops messages to make the mods life worse. I hope that it stops, but the most important thing I have learned in life is "People are stupid, and they would rather die young and stupid rather than live long and wise." Someone quote me on that.
 
Conversations about the future of SV OU have been interesting to hear, especially now considering what came about the Kyurem test. There's still a few controversial things in this tier and the topic of Archaludon is particularly fascinating to me, but I think this topic entails more than just the mon itself.

I feel like a lot of the time when Archaludon is mentioned it is almost always brought up with rain as well. Essentially, I think it's important to acknowledge that you can't exactly talk about one without bringing up the other. It's no secret that this mon has been a tremendous boost to the rain playstyle with it's combination of defensive utility and offensive prowess. The conversion about this mon's place in the tier has to include rain's place in the tier as well. Does this controversial issue come down to Archaludon alone or is this a rain issue as a whole? I bring up this question as a non-ou main and purely out of observation, so perhaps others that are more in tune with ou can give their thoughts in this context.

As a UU main I can though offer a comparison for what Archaludon strikes me as similar to within UU and that would be Goodra-h. For as long as it's been in UU in this gen, this particular mon has always been pretty annoying to switch into given that it basically has perfect coverage and can trade pretty well vs a lot of mons; Archaludon seems no different in Draco/Flash/Body Press/Electro Shot can hit just about everything. Either of these being well-played can make for an effective progress maker in any match. However, I think it could be argued that being tough to switch into =/= broken. Similarly to Hoodra, it's especially threatening into slower teams while more offensive teams still have to be conscious about switching into it but can usually overwhelm it, and this for the most part is considered a healthy dynamic within the UU tier. For how crazy speed tiers are in OU the same could be said of Archaludon. These may be different tiers being compared in this example, but both mons do seem to play similarly in my experiences of both these tiers. At what point does being difficult to switch into become unhealthy?

A big part of what enables Archaludon is rain giving Electro Shot a 1 turn hit. Something to consider about both rain and this mon is if Archaludon would be considered banworthy without/outside of rain. As a standalone mon, I imagine it could be argued that it's not as overbearing and would rather just be a solid mon. The complexity of the issue could be narrowed down to rain as the main enabler for what makes it overbearing. Rain as a playstyle does tend to have tough matchups into some mons in general, but is rain as a standalone playstyle overbearing in ou? Would it be with or without Archaludon? If rain as a whole is considered too good, and Archaludon is considered balanced without rain, it could be worth looking into Damp Rock. Ideally, a nerf to rain in this manner would still preserve the playstyle (without having to act on drizzle or pelipper) while making counterplay to Archaludon a bit easier with the limited rain turns. Not to say that Archaludon isn't banworthy, it still very well could be, but I think the conversation on whether rain as it currently exists in ou is considered healthy should be talked about more before deciding on what to act upon. OU seems to have it's fair share of controversial issues beyond just Archaludon/Rain, so in general the playerbase should discuss looking into fixing the current issues before unleashing more ubers into it.

Thanks for reading if you got this far :D
 

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