Sun & Moon UU Speculation and Discussion Thread - Updated with UU Alpha!

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Pearl

Romance は風のまま
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis the 7th Grand Slam Winneris a Past SPL Champion

Approved by UU's lord and savior dodmen

Considering Pokemon Sun & Moon were finally released for good (R.I.P. Europe) and Showdown has already implemented pretty much all of the relevant changes (which means there's already a Smogon OU metagame we can use as a base to speculate), it's about time we get one of these threads going. Here's what you should look forward to in Gen 7:
Relevant Mechanic Changes:
  • Thunder Wave now has 90% accuracy.
  • Destiny Bond has a chance to fail if used repeatedly.
  • Leech Life's Base Power has been buffed to 80.
  • Sucker Punch's Base Power has been nerfed to 70.
  • The only new moves that ignore Substitute: Sparkling Aria, Gear Up, Speed Swap, Instruct, Clanging Scales, and Spectral Thief.
  • The damage modifier on -ate abilities has been nerfed from 1.3x to 1.2x.
  • Gale Wings now only works when the Pokemon is at Full HP. Was nice to know you, Linda.
  • Eviolite boost is still 1.5x to Defense and Special Defense.
  • Burn damage has been reduced to 1/16th the user Max HP regardless of their type. When Game Freak reacts faster than the tier leaders to my repeated rants about Entei (cwl)
  • Paralysis only cuts Speed by 50% now.
  • Confusion nerfs! The chance of a Pokemon hitting itself in confusion is now 33% instead of 50%.
  • Turn order has changed to reflect a Pokemon's ability/Speed after it Mega Evolves, Prankster will now be active immediately after mega evolving and give priority to moves. Changes to a Pokemon's Speed will be reflected on the turn it mega evolves making it move before or after the opposing Pokemon depending on its new Speed stat.
  • Dark-type Pokemon are now immune to moves affected by Prankster that target them. Prankster Spikes, hazards, weather moves, and Trick Room are not blocked but Prankster Defog is.
Z-Move Information:
  • A Pokemon needs to be holding a Z-Crystal in order to use a Z-Move.
  • Z-Moves draw upon the PP of the Pokemon's original moves in order to execute.
  • Z-Moves based on attack moves have no numerical accuracy and derive their category and power from the original move.
  • Z-Moves based on status moves are enhanced versions of the original moves, having a Z- prefixed to the start of the status move's name.
  • General Z-Move Data
  • Z-Move BP by Base Move
  • Status Z-Move Data
The following Pokemon have received new forms called Alolan Forms: Raticate, Raichu, Sandslash, Ninetales, Dugtrio, Persian, Exeggutor, Golem, Muk and Marowak (which still gets Thick Club's Attack stat boost). These forms have completely new typings, movesets, some changes to their base stats and are completely unrelated to their original forms in-battle (which means that you don't need any specific item to transform your Exeggutor into an Alolan Exeggutor).

Other Relevant Changes to Older Pokemon:
  • Gengar's Ability is now Cursed Body instead of Levitate, which could potentially make it drop from OU.
  • Pelipper received Drizzle and a minor buff to its Special Attack stat (which is now 95 instead of 85).
  • Torkoal now has Drought.
  • Gigalith now has Sand Stream.
  • Everyone's favorite Ice Cream (Vanilluxe) now has Snow Warning.
  • Beartic received a buff to its Attack stat (130 instead of 110) and a new ability called Slush Rush, which is pretty much a new version of Swift Swim that works under Hail.
  • Dugtrio received a buff to its Attack stat, which is now a whopping base 100, something that could make it a lot more dangerous than before.
  • Dodrio received a minor buff to its Speed stat (it is now 110), alongside some movepool changes that gave it access to Swords Dance and Jump Kick. Oh boy...
  • Qwilfish received a minor buff to its Defense stat (which is now 85 instead of 75).
  • Mantine has been buffed so much that it no longer stands a realistic chance of being UU. Wish I could say jokes aside to follow this statement up, but there's a big chance it ends up being true (it received Roost and a +20 buff to its HP stat).
  • Swellow's base Special Attack is now 75. It also gets access to Hurricane, which could possibly make its Choice Specs set viable in UU.
  • Both of Volbeat's Defenses have been buffed, which could potentially have an effect in UU if Baton Pass gets tested again.
  • Cryogonal no longer gets one shot by any physically oriented breeze (its HP and Defense stats have been buffed up to 80 and 50 respectively), which probably won't matter but still feels worth mentioning.
  • Sharpedo gets a new move called Psychic Fangs, which gets boosted by Strong Jaw and has 85 Base Power.
  • Flygon now learns Dragon Dance! yay!
  • Bibarel has access to both Swords Dance and Aqua Jet, which could make it fairly scary when taking its Simple ability into account.
  • Froslass gets Wil-O-Wisp now. This, coupled with Destiny Bond's nerf, could shake this Pokemon's role in the metagame massively. I personally think that bulkier Spikes sets should be very interesting.
  • Pangoro learns Bullet Punch now. No clue how relevant this will be, but at least Tony will be happy I guess.
  • Diancie now gets Power Gem and its signature move (Diamond Storm) has been buffed, raising its defense by 2 stages instead of just 1.

Besides those changes, here's the list of Unreleased Mega Stones in Gen 7.

Important Update!

Since OU just got its first batch of usage stats, we effectively can move past the pre-alpha stage and into our SM UU Alpha until Beta becomes available. For those of you that were worried about our potential lack of diversity, fear not!
  • In Bold will be mons that were OU in last generation that are now available in our UU Alpha
  • In Underlined will be mons that are from Gen 7 and available for UU Alpha, including Alola Forms
  • In Italics are mons that were BL but for now are part of our Alpha
  • Unedited mons are Pokemon that were once UU and are now back to join us for Alpha
| 52 | Ninetales-Alola | 2.86720% | 42705 | 4.368% | 33998 | 4.673% |
| 53 | Gliscor | 2.84910% | 30060 | 3.074% | 23388 | 3.215% |
| 54 | Dragonite | 2.76411% | 30615 | 3.131% | 21099 | 2.900% | |

| 55 | Tornadus-Therian | 2.63607% | 18202 | 1.862% | 13853 | 1.904% |
| 57 | Charizard-Mega-Y | 2.60763% | 34082 | 3.486% | 26101 | 3.588% |
| 58 | Azumarill | 2.55492% | 27648 | 2.828% | 20086 | 2.761% |
| 59 | Keldeo | 2.42211% | 17648 | 1.805% | 12905 | 1.774% |
| 60 | Weavile | 2.35490% | 27435 | 2.806% | 18672 | 2.567% |
| 61 | Azelf | 2.25114% | 15770 | 1.613% | 14854 | 2.042% |
| 62 | Necrozma | 2.23924% | 22995 | 2.352% | 17643 | 2.425% |
| 63 | Kommo-o | 2.19982% | 49210 | 5.033% | 33126 | 4.553% |

| 64 | Latias | 2.08631% | 20393 | 2.086% | 13480 | 1.853% |
| 65 | Zygarde-10% | 2.02450% | 15154 | 1.550% | 11090 | 1.524% |
| 66 | Amoonguss | 1.83539% | 12537 | 1.282% | 9254 | 1.272% |
| 67 | Scizor | 1.75900% | 14550 | 1.488% | 10802 | 1.485% |
| 68 | Tangrowth | 1.73388% | 13075 | 1.337% | 10018 | 1.377% |
| 69 | Kyurem-Black | 1.69567% | 11487 | 1.175% | 8160 | 1.122% |
| 70 | Salazzle | 1.64513% | 54324 | 5.556% | 38849 | 5.340% |
| 71 | Decidueye | 1.64315% | 61627 | 6.303% | 44721 | 6.147% |
| 72 | Minior | 1.58397% | 43439 | 4.443% | 29370 | 4.037% |
| 73 | Raichu-Alola | 1.47324% | 33642 | 3.441% | 23547 | 3.237% |
| 74 | Golisopod | 1.47156% | 42044 | 4.300% | 30814 | 4.235% |
| 75 | Pyukumuku | 1.44627% | 18749 | 1.918% | 14595 | 2.006% |

| 76 | Volcarona | 1.42407% | 18859 | 1.929% | 13105 | 1.801% |
| 77 | Terrakion | 1.41530% | 5751 | 0.588% | 4379 | 0.602% |
| 78 | Starmie | 1.41398% | 17034 | 1.742% | 11455 | 1.575% |

| 80 | Araquanid | 1.36835% | 32092 | 3.282% | 23945 | 3.291% |
| 82 | Muk-Alola | 1.33309% | 22729 | 2.325% | 17196 | 2.364% |

| 83 | Thundurus | 1.30605% | 9049 | 0.925% | 6603 | 0.908% |
| 84 | Jirachi | 1.29671% | 13763 | 1.408% | 10423 | 1.433% |

| 85 | Dhelmise | 1.16104% | 25919 | 2.651% | 18932 | 2.602% |
| 87 | Mew | 1.09466% | 15477 | 1.583% | 12042 | 1.655% |
| 90 | Primarina | 1.00832% | 28155 | 2.880% | 20418 | 2.807% |
| 91 | Volcanion | 1.00786% | 14411 | 1.474% | 11041 | 1.518% |
| 93 | Scolipede | 0.95868% | 11661 | 1.193% | 10069 | 1.384% |
| 94 | Persian-Alola | 0.91952% | 12863 | 1.316% | 10594 | 1.456% |
| 95 | Bewear | 0.89957% | 23960 | 2.451% | 16652 | 2.289% |

| 97 | Gengar | 0.88999% | 18013 | 1.842% | 12585 | 1.730% |
| 99 | Lycanroc | 0.88635% | 29409 | 3.008% | 20597 | 2.831% |
| 101 | Sandslash-Alola | 0.85662% | 19715 | 2.016% | 13939 | 1.916% |

| 103 | Serperior | 0.82794% | 15966 | 1.633% | 10780 | 1.482% |
| 105 | Komala | 0.79835% | 13787 | 1.410% | 9700 | 1.333% |
| 106 | Golem-Alola | 0.77892% | 20289 | 2.075% | 15641 | 2.150% |

| 108 | Slowbro | 0.75107% | 10073 | 1.030% | 7160 | 0.984% |
| 112 | Togekiss | 0.70226% | 10579 | 1.082% | 7581 | 1.042% |
| 113 | Exeggutor-Alola | 0.69113% | 18660 | 1.908% | 12996 | 1.786% |
| 114 | Tsareena | 0.68157% | 16305 | 1.668% | 11597 | 1.594% |

| 120 | Thundurus-Therian | 0.62491% | 8042 | 0.822% | 6238 | 0.857% |
| 122 | Garchomp-Mega | 0.59269% | 7224 | 0.739% | 5045 | 0.693% |
| 123 | Diggersby | 0.59062% | 4182 | 0.428% | 2951 | 0.406% |
| 124 | Guzzlord | 0.58939% | 14671 | 1.500% | 10533 | 1.448% |
| 126 | Smeargle | 0.54868% | 5582 | 0.571% | 4985 | 0.685% |
| 127 | Talonflame | 0.54804% | 11286 | 1.154% | 7932 | 1.090% |
| 131 | Breloom | 0.52006% | 10580 | 1.082% | 7442 | 1.023% |

| 133 | Wishiwashi | 0.51166% | 16052 | 1.642% | 11639 | 1.600% |
| 135 | Vikavolt | 0.49294% | 19979 | 2.043% | 14863 | 2.043% |
| 138 | Silvally | 0.46001% | 9582 | 0.980% | 7228 | 0.994% |
| 141 | Crabominable | 0.44498% | 13227 | 1.353% | 8807 | 1.211% |
| 142 | Drampa | 0.44171% | 16283 | 1.665% | 11539 | 1.586% |
| 144 | Mudsdale | 0.41777% | 17994 | 1.840% | 13437 | 1.847% |

| 147 | Victini | 0.40691% | 6731 | 0.688% | 5058 | 0.695% |
| 149 | Incineroar | 0.39073% | 24846 | 2.541% | 18108 | 2.489% |
| 155 | Raikou | 0.35571% | 6894 | 0.705% | 5205 | 0.715% |
| 160 | Bruxish | 0.32987% | 7109 | 0.727% | 4924 | 0.677% |
| 166 | Alakazam | 0.28385% | 8426 | 0.862% | 5336 | 0.733% |
| 167 | Staraptor | 0.28354% | 8010 | 0.819% | 5944 | 0.817% |
| 169 | Salamence | 0.26393% | 7307 | 0.747% | 5142 | 0.707% |

| 176 | Comfey | 0.21683% | 7472 | 0.764% | 5109 | 0.702% |
| 177 | Turtonator | 0.21185% | 9531 | 0.975% | 7048 | 0.969% |

| 178 | Lopunny-Mega | 0.19529% | 1483 | 0.152% | 1213 | 0.167% |
| 181 | Slowbro-Mega | 0.18539% | 3778 | 0.386% | 2684 | 0.369% |
| 187 | Mawile-Mega | 0.16310% | 996 | 0.102% | 726 | 0.100% |

| 188 | Palossand | 0.16207% | 9542 | 0.976% | 6888 | 0.947% |
| 193 | Togedemaru | 0.15325% | 3522 | 0.360% | 2846 | 0.391% |
| 195 | Toucannon | 0.14313% | 10174 | 1.041% | 7363 | 1.012% |
| 197 | Shiinotic | 0.14207% | 6727 | 0.688% | 4832 | 0.664% |
| 199 | Passimian | 0.13985% | 4431 | 0.453% | 3115 | 0.428% |
| 206 | Lycanroc-Midnight | 0.11622% | 9567 | 0.978% | 6849 | 0.941% |

| 208 | Hawlucha | 0.10970% | 6473 | 0.662% | 4344 | 0.597% |

This means the following Pokemon are banned for UU Alpha. Please take note of the following:
  1. Pokemon that were OU/Ubers in ORAS will be unedited
  2. New Pokemon that were in lower tier in ORAS and are now OU will be Bolded
  3. New Pokemon will be Italicized.
Aegislash
Tapu Koko
Pheromosa

Landorus-Therian
Toxapex
Landorus
Genesect
Tapu Lele
Tapu Fin
Marowak-Alola
Celesteela
Tapu Bulu

Zygarde
Scizor-Mega
Ferrothorn
Heatran
Garchomp
Dugtrio
Latios
Buzzwole
Hoopa-Unbound
Magearna
Skarmory
Mantine
Venusaur-Mega
Greninja
Metagross-Mega
Chansey
Xurkitree
Charizard-Mega-X
Excadrill
Kartana
Rotom-Wash
Clefable
Porygon-Z
Mimikyu
Bisharp
Sableye-Mega
Pelipper
Manaphy
Pinsir-Mega
Magnezone
Alakazam-Mega
Nihilego
Zapdos
Kingdra
Mandibuzz
Greninja-Ash
Tyranitar
Hippowdon

In this thread, you're free to talk about what's hyping you up the most about Gen 7 UU. This includes new Pokemon we're likely to get, possible drops due to power creep and even nerfs (R.I.P. Talonflame), Z-Moves, Entei being slightly less unhealthy, the fact that we're no longer restricted to the same 3 Pokemon as far as choosing Hydreigon checks and hazard removal means goes among other stuff. In my next post (which is very outdated as of now, by the way), I'm going to talk about some of the new Pokemon introduced in this new generation. Personally, I see a lot of potential in this metagame and I hope you're all as excited for this as I am! By the way, feel free to correct me if you see any mistake in the OP.
 
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Pearl

Romance は風のまま
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis the 7th Grand Slam Winneris a Past SPL Champion
New Pokemon (Note: Mostly Outdated!):

Unlikely to stay in UU (S Rank if they do stay, BL or even OU):

It hasn't been receiving much usage in OU so far, but 97/101/89 bulk coupled with Prism Armor, access to reliable recovery, Calm Mind and Stored Power should be a massive pain for UU to deal with. It also gets some other interesting options in Stealth Rock, Autotomize (alongside usable offensive stats) and Swords Dance. Honestly, this has to be one of the weirdest Pokemon introduced in Sun & Moon and, at least for now, it's pretty hard for me to tell where it's gonna end up or which one of its sets is going to be the most threatening/reliable.



Bewear

This, my friends, is what happens when you put a Diggersby and a Furfrou in a Day Care and force them to breed until a new Pokemon comes out. Excellent offensive typing (which only misses out on Ghost-type Pokemon), insane physical bulk, courtesy of its ability (which is basically Fur Coat with an added Fire-type weakness) and access to moves such as Swords Dance, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch and Shadow Claw means that if this Pokemon ever drops from OU, it's either going to dominate UU in a hilarious fashion or will end up stuck in BL. For what it's worth, Mega Aerodactyl's Wing Attack fails to 2HKO Bewear, which can then proceed to knock Aerodactyl out with a Choice Band-boosted Hammer Arm. In spite of this, I think it'll be fun to see how this Pokemon interacts with the rest of the metagame if it ever drops.

Likely to become staple Pokemon in UU (High A Rank):


Primarina has a godlike typing, which basically makes it UU's best Hydreigon counter (assuming Tapu Fini doesn't end up dropping, which would be pretty stupid), incredibly high Special stats and a respectable movepool. A Choice Specs set with a Water-type move of choice between Hydro Pump and Scald, Moonblast, Psychic and Energy Ball is likely to put in work against UU balance and bulky offense, with Empoleon being the most reliable answer. Besides that, it can also run bulkier sets such as Rest + Sleep Talk, Perish Song (too bad it doesn't get Whirlpool, or else this would be ludicrous), or even a similar set to what Escavalier currently runs, using Assault Vest or Leftovers + Protect with offensive investment to take on some of the most common threats.


Even though it doesn't look spectacular on paper, it is able to consistently grab a Swords Dance boost pretty much every game, thanks to its ability, which makes it immune to the first attack that the opponent uses on it. Swords Dance / Play Rough / Shadow Claw / Shadow Sneak should be nearly impossible for offense to deal with, considering that it fares pretty well against the most common revenge killers (Choice Scarf Hydreigon and Choice Scarf Mienshao), is naturally faster than Pokemon like Krookodile and Lucario and has unresisted coverage on top of that. Who would've thought that this generation's Pikachu (literal) ripoff could end up being so unique (and good too!)?


Even though it's pretty sad that this Pokemon's best Fighting-type move is Sky Uppercut, Kommo-o still has a lot going for it and should easily become one of UU's staple Pokemon. For starters, 75/125/105 bulk is incredibly good and Kommo-o has a lot of tools to help it making use of its bulk, including its above-average offensive stats, Bulk Up, Swords Dance, Autotomize, Dragon Dance and Belly Drum. As far as its viable sets go, I could see something along the lines of Bulk Up / Dragon Tail / Rest / Sleep Talk working when paired with a solid Fairy-type lure. Choice Specs is a no-brainer considering Kommo-o's signature move and Dragon Dance / Autotomize / Swords Dance should all be viable in spite of this thing's lack of an incredibly good Fighting-type move. Substitute + Belly Drum + Reversal + Salac sounds like a hilarious gimmick though.

Likely to be valuable Pokemon in UU (Low A Rank or high B Rank):


Probably the most unique out of all starter Pokemon, which is saying a lot, considering that they're all awesome in their own different way. Basically, Decidueye's signature move is a relatively strong Ghost-type move that allows it to trap whichever Pokemon it hits, which can be exploited thanks to this Pokemon's access to both U-turn and Baton Pass. Besides that, it also gets good offensive stats, Swords Dance, Sucker Punch, reliable recovery in Roost, Feather Dance, Haze and most importantly, Defog, which is easily one of the most valuable moves in competitive Pokemon right now. Has to directly compete with Dhelmise (which I'll get into in a bit) for a team slot, but at a glance it seems like both of them have their merits.


Too bad that this thing's ability doesn't make it immune to Water-type moves, but it's still an unique and strong Pokemon with above average physical bulk, sick Special Attack (paired with an equally sick offensive typing) and reliable recovery. Checks Mega Aerodactyl, Electric-type Pokemon and most Fighting-type Pokemon nicely and pairs up well with many common Pokemon such as pretty much every Water-type and Hydreigon.


Yeah, another dual Grass/Ghost-type Pokemon. The plot twist? This one also gets pseudo-STAB on Steel-type moves! yay! That aside, the main selling point behind this thing is its ability to use Rapid Spin while also being able to hit insanely hard, which allows it to scare pretty much every other Ghost-type Pokemon out. Pretty similar to Decidueye in a way, except that it packs way less utility and is more about killing shit. A bulky offensive set with HP and Attack investment, Leftovers, Power Whip, Phantom Force, Rapid Spin and either Heavy Slam or Gyro Ball sounds OK on paper, although Assault Vest could work as well depending on what the person using this Pokemon needs from it (although Decidueye is probably better if Special bulk is required).

Likely to have a niche in UU (between B and C+):


Not having Sleep Powder or Tinted Lens is unfortunate, but this thing's typing is infinitely better than Venomoth's, so it can use Quiver Dance just fine, being able to abuse Choice Scarf Hydreigon locked into a STAB move or just -2 Hydreigon in general. Quiver Dance / Moonblast / Polen Puff / Hidden Power Ground with either Lum Berry or Life Orb sounds like an usable set on paper, but it might be better off dropping its Bug-type STAB move for Energy Ball.


After chatting with dodmen about this one, we've come to the conclusion that it pretty much needs Z-moves to work in UU, considering how miserable its movepool is outside of Rock-type moves. However, it's still a Pokemon with access to Swords Dance and Rock-type STAB priority, making it both unique and dangerous at the same time. With that said, it's probably gonna be seen using Swords Dance sets with Accelerock, Stone Edge and a coverage move of choice between Brick Break, Fire Fang, Thunder Fang or Crunch, which sound (and is) terrible on paper but can be used to lure common checks by equipping Lycanroc with the appropriate Z-Crystal.


Good Ability, Speed and Special Attack. Similar to Heliolisk in a way, except that it has literally no coverage options aside from Hidden power and Dragon Pulse, which is unfortunate. Probably one of the best Pokemon within this "rank", but getting eaten alive by Mega Aerodactyl and having no bulk at all doesn't do it any good.



Comfey

Fun approach to the whole defensive Fairy-type Pokemon archetype, considering its insanely high Speed stat coupled with Taunt and U-turn. Aside from that and Triage/Natural Cure it isn't too memorable. Lack of Moonblast kind of sucks too, I guess.


It could be a lot stronger if it didn't have such an inconvenient ability, but having good bulk and a decent typing, access to the newly buffed Leech Life, Bulk Up, priority in Sucker Punch and Aqua Jet can make it worth running on some teams and an absolute beast if supported properly.


Probably the most awkward Pokemon released this generation, with a grand total of 2 ways of directly hurting opposing Pokemon. The problem? Both of those are Z-moves and this thing's offensive stats aren't even good! However, it gets randomly colossal defenses, Unaware and a nasty supportive movepool, which includes options such Recover, Toxic, Soak, Curse, Baton Pass and Taunt. On top of that, mono Water is a sick defensive typing, so this thing could definitely do a lot of damage in UU, and could even become the face of UU stall teams, which would be pretty hilarious in a way.


Quite frankly, I have no clue about how good this thing is gonna turn out to be. On paper, it's a mini Arceus with 18 different forms, but the truth is that it lacks all of the options that make Arceus a Pokemon worth calling a god. It's not even a matter of having lower base stats than Arceus, but more about not having a reliable recovery move, not having Extreme Speed, not having Calm Mind, its memory items not boosting Multi-Attack like Plates boost Judgment and so on. However, it still gets Swords Dance, Parting Shot (!) and solid base stats across the board. I could see one or two of its forms (probably Ghost and Normal with a Fire-type Z-Move) becoming reasonably good in UU with a Swords Dance set. Too bad that it gets an actually usable Special movepool with no real way of abusing it though. Ignore this last bit! It can use Z-Move Heal Block to grab a +2 Special Attack boost. Still unsure about how good it'll be though.



Minior

Obviously gimmicky in a way, but this thing is such a dangerous Shell Smash user that it's impossible to overlook. Substitute to activate its ability, White Herb to remain fairly bulky after a boost and to power up Acrobatics at the same time and it should be good to go. Earthquake rounds off the set by hitting Steel-type Pokemon. It's a very one-dimensional Pokemon and requires some support to functional, but I could see it paying off in the long run in a similar fashion to how Slurpuff works.

Interesting Pokemon that are unlikely to stay in UU:


Interesting probably isn't enough to describe this Pokemon. The ability to completely destroy Celebi while also being able to Throat Chop the hell out of Sylveon isn't bad at all, and Incineroar should be able to run a decent Choice Band set with Flare Blitz, Throat Chop, U-turn and a filler move of choice. However, not having Pursuit, Sucker Punch or access to its hidden ability is unfortunate and heavily compromises its viability in UU. At least we finally got a bulky dual Fire/Dark-type Pokemon though!


A weird hybrid between Choice Band Conkeldurr and Swords Dance Abomasnow. Ice Hammer + Iron Fist should be a pain in the ass for slower teams to play around, but the lack any of defensive utility or strong priority move whatsoever should make it way too one-dimensional to work consistently in UU.


This Pokemon has to be one of my personal favorites (flavor-wise at least) of this generation for sure. Monstrous base stats, courtesy of its ability, U-turn and a decent typing (excellent defensively but questionable as a standalone offensive typing) should give this a niche as a Choice Band user (Waterfall / Earthquake / U-turn / Return or Sleep Talk sounds sweet on paper), but its movepool doesn't give it much room to work with, which is unfortunate. Maybe this will be changed once there are move tutors in Gen 7?


Two sweet abilities, respectable base stats and access to U-turn on top of that. Could see some usage on Spikes stacking teams as a Choice Scarf user in a similar fashion to Primeape in lower tiers, but that's most likely the extent of this Pokemon's viability in UU.



Komala

Very interesting ability coupled with some awesome options, including Rapid Spin, Swords Dance (and priority in Sucker Punch) and U-turn. It's most likely not going to end up affecting UU at all, but I still found it worth mentioning based on its unique traits.



Bruxish a.k.a. Brexit: The Pokemon​

A Swords Dance set with Psychic Fangs, Ice Fang and Aqua Jet doesn't sound half bad on paper, but being a frail Psychic-type Pokemon that gets outpaced by Hydreigon and speed ties with Krookodile doesn't do it any good. Pretty much a poor men's Mega Sharpedo, although not bending over to Conkeldurr and not taking up a mega evolution slot is sort of interesting. All in all, it just isn't looking too good for White Queen's new favorite Pokemon.



Drampa

Choice Specs sets will hit insanely hard, but Hydreigon, Kommo-o and even Kyurem should be superior choices for the most part due to their higher defensive utility and speed. It should be able to always get 1 kill per game if used correctly though, considering its ability and passable bulk.
 
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Do you really think Salazzle will drop? Its defenses definitely leave something to be desired, but it's so damn fast (base 116 or 117) with everything it really needs to succeed I can see it being a VERY potent cleaner in OU.

That being said I'm by far most excited about the new Mega mechanics. Being able to drop Protect on Beedrill is huge, as that gives you room for one more of Knock Off or Drill Run OR the buffed Fell Stinger, which not only now has 50 BP (not that far behind U-turn) but also raises Attack by 3. If it carries it, sacking anything without a Mega Aero (who also greatly benefits from the buff) is basically BEGGING for a drill up the butt.

Oh yeah, and Minior's cool, but I wish it has either higher HP or attacking stats in Core Forme. It's actually comparable to Cloyster (100 Atk vs 90, 110 main STAB vs 125) but with a Forme Change that directly benefits it setting up, unlike Cloyster which often relied on a Sash.
 
So one thing not covered in this post that i think could have a drastic shift on the Sumo uu meta is the unreleased megas. As it stands there's only 16 20 released mega stones in Sumo and most of them are either OU or ubers, so the only UU megas left are Sharpedo, Aerodactyl, and Absol. The tier losing mega Blastoise, Swampert, Aggron, Sceptile, Ampharos, and Beedrill will be huge, and it might spell the end of viability for certain playstyles like volturn and rain, as well as really hurting stall. Some of these mega stones are released in events or something, but if not this is going to drastically change the tier.

One thing I'm excited for is Lycanroc Stoutland and either Gigalith or potentially Hippowdon sand. Lycanroc looks like a really threatening sand sweeper, and with one sd under sand this thing spells doom for offense and balance.

Guzzlord is another neat thing that could potentially be uu, with Hydreigon typing and massive defenses alongside a decent movepool, including Poison jab and dragon tail.

Nihilego looks interesting as well with really nice stats an interesting typing and an access to stealth rocks and toxic spikes, though the 4x ground weakness is kindof scary.

I think Mudsdale has potential to be cool with really good overall stats and ground typing, though its movepool leaves something to be desired.

Finally I can see Talonflame dropping ASAP because of the gale wings nerf, and it could potentially be decent with an sd or choice band set, though 81 attack is pretty sad.

Edit: Blastoise is released hooray!
 
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LeoLancaster

does this still work
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Two of the things I'm really looking forward to are not specific Pokemon, but moves. The first is simple; with a number of new viable Defog and Rapid Spin users introduced, it's likely at least a few will drop to UU. Decidueye and Dhelmise are the obvious contenders here, and both have good stats/typing/movepools which means they'll be useful and easy to fit on teams besides simply for hazard control. Alolan Sandslash *might* make a splash, too; Ice/Steel lends a number of good resists, and paired with good physical bulk, decent Attack, good STAB options and Earthquake for coverage, it has potential to be a decent pick. Kinda sucks that it's only real recovery is Rest and Leech Life, and unfortunately Leech Life doesn't provide any notable coverage.

The best part is that even if the new, hype-inducing ones remain OU, the increased competition there will likely cause something new that can control hazards to drop. Starmie and Zapdos are the most likely here, but who knows? Maybe Skarmory, non-mega Scizor, or Tapu Fini will drop. I'm not holding my breath, but I don't really have to; the bottom line is we're most likely getting new good hazard removal options, which is a significant boon no matter how you spin it (heh).

The second is Parting Shot. With the only thing getting it last gen being stuck awkwardly between a tier it was too good for and a tier it was outclassed in, now we'll have Alolan Persian and Silvally to show what it's potential really is. Alolan Persian has a fantastic base Speed of 115 and Fur Coat, which makes its uninvested Defense equivalent to uninvested base 138 if I did my math right (call me out on this if I didn't). Mono Dark typing alongside mediocre power and coverage options doesn't bode well for it, but something along the lines of Choice Specs with Dark Pulse / Parting Shot / Switcheroo / coverage (probably Hidden Power or Thunderbolt) could be usable. The main problem is that it's movepool/stats are too shallow to accomplish much beyond Parting Shot on a Fur Coat 'mon, which is disappointing.

On the other hand, Silvally is where Parting Shot's best chance to shine probably lies. Base 95 stats across the board and decent coverage on both sides of the spectrum, along with whatever mono typing you need, could be enough to carve a good niche. Fairy Silvally with Multi-Attack / Parting Shot / Rock Slide / Fire Fang, Steel Silvally with Flash Cannon / Parting Shot / Surf / Thunderbolt, and Normal Silvally @ Choice Band or Specs with STAB / Parting Shot / coverage moves are what I'd lean towards using. The Memory-holding sets are similar to Alolan Persian in that they probably won't be accomplishing much beyond being a pivot with Parting Shot, but they do have better coverage and typings which could help them find their way onto teams (a Fairy-type with Parting Shot would be a nice breath of fresh air in the ORAS meta for more offensively-inclined teams to utilize, for example, so I wouldn't rule out something similar occurring in SM just yet). Choiced Silvally trades defensive utility for power, but (broken record incoming) it doesn't seem like it would accomplish much beyond pivoting with Parting Shot. Overall I doubt it will become a particularly common sight in UU, but at least we'll have better options than Pangoro if we want to use it.

tl;dr new hazard control hype, Parting Shot might have decent users this gen
 
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CoolStoryBrobat

The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
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Screw you Pearl for vulturing half of anything worth discussing jk, still love you bruh. If speculating for UU Beta counts for anything, I think we should get ready to account for OU dropping a ton of Pokemon that don't even suck in OU being allowed to fall down here just due to the metagame not using them...It happened at the start of XY, with UU Beta seeing major threats such as Latias, Keldeo, Weavile, Celebi, Mega Gardevoir, Bisharp, Magnezone, and many, many more. While most of these threats (mainly ones that I didn't mention, such as Scolipede, Mega Heracross, etc.) eventually got banned from the tier after a while. But most of the ones that dropped here during UU Beta were still around for a while even after UU Beta was done, so speculating on some of these Pokemon is good too. A big one to me is...






Xurkitree
83 / 89 / 71 / 173 / 71 / 83

This thing's just a powerhouse offensively. 173 SpA + Tail Glow is nothing to screw around with in UU, as this lets it shred nearly every single defensive/stall team in UU's existence just with proper coverage...A simple set with Life Orb and Thunderbolt / HP Ice / Grass Knot / Tail Glow annihilates stall and bulky balance completely, no questions asked. Xurkitree's biggest shortcoming is the incredibly average stats outside of SpA... 83/71/71 bulk isn't that great for a Pokemon whose only resistances are Steel and Electric-type moves, and base 83 Speed still falls short of UU other middling-speed wallbreakers in UU, such as Roserade, Nidoking, and Heracross. Not to mention, because of Xurkitree's extremely unbalanced stat distribution, there's no way to manipulate Beast Boost into raising ANY of its other stats after getting a kill. Even with a -SpA nature and 0 IVs, its Special Attack stat will still be the highest stat it has, so it will always gain SpA boosts...which can leave it prone to revenge killing. Because of this, Offensive teams even in the current meta will be able to keep Xurkitree in check pretty easily, as threats like Mega Aerodactyl, Celebi, Krookodile, and Hydreigon will always be a thing. Who's to say what Gen 7 UU would bring in addition to them?

To circumvent Xurkitree's weakness to faster mons, the funky cactus has one of two options: The simpler one is slapping on a Choice Scarf. While Electric-type Scarf users were always kind of lackluster in UU, Xurkitree gets a pass simply because of its ridiculous SpA stat. Base 83 on a Scarf user isn't too bad, seeing as mons like Chandelure and Gardevoir (well, back when Gardevoir was more viable) sitting at base 80 Speed were capable of using effective Choice Scarf sets. Unfortunately, Scarf Xurkitree still falls short of Mega Aerodactyl with a +Spe nature, hitting 436 Speed, just shy of Mega Aerodactyl's 438. Xurkitree's lack of decent coverage outside of Energy Ball, Hidden Power, Dazzling Gleam, Signal Beam, and Grass Knot means that even though it can screw with nearly every offensive Pokemon that would dare switch into it, its main source of damage otherwise is coming from clicking Thunderbolt/Volt Switch.

Xurkitree's other, less-conventional option for boosting Speed is running Electrium Z with the move Electric Terrain. Z-Electric Terrain gives Xurkitree a one-time +1 Speed boost, which when coupled with Tail Glow, makes Xurkitree a discount double dance Thundurus-T a huge threat to contend with. I've messed around in OU with this set, and while the hardest part is mainly getting both moves set up, Xurkitree has never been able to be stopped after doing so. It's a nightmare for offensive and defensive teams to face, and that's not factoring Beast Boost and the fact Electric Terrain still makes your Electric moves hit harder. (It also keeps you from being put to sleep haha).

All in all, I couldn't tell you where I think Xurkitree would end up. If we stuck it in the current UU meta, it'd be BL for sure. I'd honestly assume even with whatever the new plethora of threats we get, Xurkitree might still be broken, or unhealthy for the meta at the very least. But it's definitely going to invalidate full stall that isn't running faster Pokemon. I'm only speculating we get it, at least for a while, due to how seemingly overlooked it is in OU.
 
I'm pretty sure you completely forgot about Pheromosa, who I think will be a healthy addition to UU.

In all honesty, I think Shiinotic could get an Honorable Mention here. Even though it's more or less an inferior Defensive Amoonguss, I think Strength Sap a move worth mentioning alongside its decent bulk (60 / 80 / 100). Given how prevalent Physical moves were in UU (Aero, Krook, Entei, Mamo, Conk), Strength Sap really puts in a lot of work. Against those types of Pokemon, Shiinotic can easily restore to max health from something like M-Aero's attack stat (369 HP). The Attack stat drop can also be used as a sort of phazing tool against Pokemon such as Entei because the -1 Attack makes attacking sometimes not worth it.

It's not the best thing in the world, but it's definitely something to consider whilst going into Gen VII UU.

EDIT: I think we're also heavily underselling Golisopod at the moment. Pearl didn't mention its Signature move, First Impression, which is a Base 90 Bug-Type +2 Priority move (moves before Quick Attack, Accelerock, etc.). Although it does have the unfortunate drawback of only being usable on the first turn a la Fake Out, it still makes it a very potent Revenge killer.
 
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I'm looking forward to wisp froslass. I could see it becoming a staple on lead sets, replacing the nerfed dbond (which no one ever falls for anyway). problem is more fitting it onto the bulky sets, cause you kinda want all the moves the old set (spikes/split/taunt/beam) had but you would also love to fit wisp in there. I suppose you would probably be able to ditch ib... yeah definitely. this'll be something to look out for

qwilfish's defense boost is excellent, love it. to illustrate the difference in bulk:
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 228-268 (68.4 - 80.4%)
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 211-249 (63.3 - 74.7%)
could've picked a more relevant example but there you go.

can't wait to see empoleon switching in to fully counter primarina only to get burned lol hurr

yeah we are going to have a lot of new spinners/ghosts running around... uu will definitely be interesting
 
  • Gigalith now has Sand Stream.
Even if we don't get Hippo ever again, it's looking like Sand Doge is back.

Speaking of weather, is there a possibility that Drought and Drizzle survive the cut this gen, or are sun and rain still clearly superior to sand and hail?

Also, because I saw that no one mentioned it: Bellossom gets Quiver Dance now. It means literally nothing in regards to its UU viability (because it has none), I just wanted to throw it out there.
 

r0ady

People like to invent monsters and monstrosities
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Ever since Hogg put the idea of a non Gale Wings Talonflame into my head ive wanted it in UU. Luckily for us we get it this gen!

Even without priority Roost/Brave Bird, Talon still outspeeds 90% of (current at least) UU with a blazing 126 base speed, adding onto its set up options in Swords Dance and Bulk Up paired with a solid typing as long as you can keep rocks off the field (which isn't looking terribly difficult this gen with the new hazard control we should be getting.) I dont really see it delving to far away from its ORAS OU roots in terms of sets, Choice Band, SD three attacks/two attacks roost, Spdef Bulk Up, and Stallbreaker all sound like they'll be fun sets to use.

I don't really know how much hype there is behind Ninetails right now but it looks really cool. Having a speed tier that puts it right above Cobalion as well as Nasty Plot and 100% accurate Blizzards to make up for its meager Spatt stat, as well as cute things like Freeze Dry and Encore. I dont see it being top tier but itll be fun for sure.

I'm hearing awesome things about Muk in OU so who knows if it would drop but, in UU it looks like a pretty sick addition. Gaining access to Pursuit lets it trap non NP Earth Power Celebi ridiculously easily, scare out and trap Chandelure not locked into specs Fire Blast, and get rid of new Pokemon like Decidueye. It should go without saying that STAB Knock + 30% chance to poison will be annoying as shit, so even Megas switching in will now potentially get punished by the best attacking move in the game.

Guzzlord looks scary at first but i see literally no reason to run it over Hydreigon. It is bulkier yes, and takes about 10% less form attacks than Drei, but then you factor in no roost and that goes completely out the window. Add onto that it has a garbage speed tier of 43, and MUCH less offensive presence than Hydreigon. The only real thing i see in its move pool that it has over Drei is heavy slam, but it doesn't matter when its out sped and OHKOd by all fairies.

All and all SUMO UU looks like itll be fantastic, I absolutely cannot wait until we get the broken mess that'll be the original beta, where well probably get to have fun with things like Kyurem Black and Bisharp. After all the bans I see a fun tier rising up, and hey it definitely cant be worse than the end of ORAS! (I hope :[)
 
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Looking foward to DD Flygon, Specs Swellow, Primarina and Dhelmise. I don't see Celebi, Sylveon and Hydreigon being so centralizing this generation. SM UU gonna be great. Does anyone know when it'll be released? Also, which drops from OU/BL are we probably getting?
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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Looking foward to DD Flygon, Specs Swellow, Primarina and Dhelmise. I don't see Celebi, Sylveon and Hydreigon being so centralizing this generation. SM UU gonna be great. Does anyone know when it'll be released? Also, which drops from OU/BL are we probably getting?
Most likely Sumo UU isn't coming out till Feb/March, as OU needs a few months to stabilize for some consistent usage statistics...which right now is too far off to answer your second question
 

Tirishia

Banned deucer.
Here is some speculation. I'm just going to add a little bit for now since my knowledge on everything is minimal at this point and I really just want to get back to playing the actual game (lot of fun really enjoying it).


Minior-Meteor @ White Herb
Ability: Shields Down
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Explosion

As much as I love this little guy, I can't see it being that good in the future SuMo uu meta. I did, however, come up with this nifty little shell smash set. The main idea behind this set is either sweep the opposing team or explode on a pokemon that would be a pain for your team. This is a type of pokemon I would use along side another offensive flying type in order to clear the way for a sweep. Similar to the exploding cloyster set. One cool perk with using minior as a shell smasher, is that shields down prevents status, which would screw up any set up sweeper. The big problems with this set, is that minior is still pretty weak in its shields down form. 60/100/100 is pretty lame defenses. Chances are that you might get a free smash off, but then you are still in shields down form. Minior then clicks a move on a bulkier pokemon and does not kill, then it fires back with super effective stab attack and minior is dead. Cool pokemon, but it has a lot of flaws.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-480114763

Mimikyu @ Life Orb / Pixie Plate
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Thunder Wave / Wil-O-Wisp
- Swords Dance / Taunt

This is a pokemon I see being great for HO teams. I see it being like the sash alakazam set people used to run. It helps HO to prevent being counter-swept by set up sweepers. Disguise is a great ability. Not only does it nullify the first attack, but it really doesn't cost anything. The thing with alakazam sash is that you are at 1 hp when things are played out. Mimikyu is at full HP when it paralyzes, burns, or straight up takes out an opposing sweeper. I think this pokemon will be very good without being toxic or overpowered. The flaws are in the stats. Although it has decent stats all around, much is to be desired.
 


I'm surprised more people aren't mentioning Guzzlord. We'll almost certainly get it and it will almost certainly be a top tier threat. Dark/Dragon/Steel/Fighting is perfect coverage in UU. This was one of the core arguments behind the Hydreigon suspect test.

However, that's where the similarities with Hydreigon end. People are making a mistake by comparing Guzzlord to Hydreigon when differences in stat distribution and ability make them completely different mons.

Guzzlord will make an excellent mid-game wallbreaker and late game cleaner. Beast Boost in conjunction with perfect coverage means all you need to do is wait, get rocks up, and bring it out against a weakened mon in the mid- to late- game. Nothing in the tier can safely switch in and after a boost you're hitting insanely hard -- harder than Hydreigon. Moreover, you're not being constantly forced out by stat drops (like Hydreigon is every time it drops a Draco.)

The low speed doesn't matter *that* much when it can take multiple hits from pretty much anything that doesn't hit it super effectively. This means Guzzlord will still be able to clean effectively in the late game vs. many balance teams.

However, the low speed does mean it will never be able to "outclass" Hydreigon -- just like Beast Boost means Hydreigon will never "outclass" Guzzlord. Like I said, I think people are missing the point by comparing these two mons when in reality they fulfill different rolls. I think Guzzlord will happily remain in the tier alongside Hydriegon and both will be good simultaneously.



I think whether we get Primarina will depend on whether its hidden ability is released -- if it is released, I think it stays in OU and Tapu Fini drops (and gets placed in BL.) Primarina has a much higher spa stat than Tapu Fini and it's bulk is almost as good. Moreover, Misty Terrain is by *far* the worst of the Terrains (it's actually borderline worthless.) If Primarina gets Liquid Voice I can't imagine Tapu Fini being more popular.

Without Liquid Voice it probably drops to UU; however, I question whether it will really be a top tier threat here. It has no boosting moves and no access to recovery outside of rest. That means as a bulky water it's outclassed by Milotic (has access to Haze and Recover) and Suicune (has access to Calm Mind.) Its only viable set (that I can see) will be Specs, where it faces competition from Sylv.
 
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FlamingVictini

FV - msg on discord FlamingVictini#3784
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Moreover, Misty Terrain is by *far* the worst of the Terrains (it's actually borderline worthless.)
I don't get how you can call an ability that blocks status borderline worthless, its by far one of the most useful abilities i've played with, both for itself and also for its teamates. I've taken advantage of misty terrain to do so many things like setting up on haze-less toxapex or getting free switchins to scalds / making tspikes temporarily worthless. Even if primarina turns out to be great I have a hard time believing Tapu Fini won't be ou, but I guess we'll see.
 
I don't get how you can call an ability that blocks status borderline worthless, its by far one of the most useful abilities i've played with, both for itself and also for its teamates. I've taken advantage of misty terrain to do so many things like setting up on haze-less toxapex or getting free switchins to scalds / making tspikes temporarily worthless. Even if primarina turns out to be great I have a hard time believing Tapu Fini won't be ou, but I guess we'll see.
You have to keep in mind that the status prevention applies to both sides of the field, so you're also preventing your opponents from getting statused.

Moreover, whether status prevention is even positive for you depends on how you're using Tapu Fini. Misty Terrain prevents Rest, Tapu Fini's only form of recovery, so any pseudo crocune type set goes out the window. You're essentially forced into running offensive, and why would you run offensive Tapu Fini when you could run offensive Primarina and hit much harder?

The only niche Tapu Fini has over Primarina is offensive CM which is a). a small niche to begin with given it doesn't hit very hard and isn't very fast and b). has to compete with Tapu Lele which arguably has better offensive coverage in OU, a much higher base spa, and a better Terrain (powers up psychic type moves, blocks priority moves.)

Like I said, however, if Primarina doesn't get Liquid Voice I think Tapu Fini still narrowly outclasses it and will remain OU.
 
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HotFuzzBall

fuzzy-chan \(ㆁヮㆁ✿)
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You have to keep in mind that the status prevention applies to both sides of the field so you're also preventing your opponents from getting statused.

Moreover, whether status prevention is even positive for you depends on how you're using Tapu Fini. Misty Terrain prevents Rest, Tapu Fini's only form of recovery, so any pseudo crocune type set goes out the window. You're essentially forced into running offensive, and why would you run offensive Tapu Fini when you could run offensive Primarina and hit much harder?

The only niche Tapu Fini has over Primarina is offensive CM which is a). a small niche to begin with given it doesn't hit very hard and isn't very fast and b). has to compete with Tapu Lele which arguably has better offensive coverage in OU, a much higher base spa, and a better Terrain (powers up psychic type moves, blocks priority moves.)

Like I said, however, if Primarina doesn't get Liquid Voice I think Tapu Fini still narrowly outclasses it and will remain OU.
None of the Tapus get Rest to begin with sooo...

Anyways, Raikou will probably end up dropping (it was pretty inevitable) since electrics have been having it pretty bad in OU (unless you're Raichu, Zapdos, Xurikitree or Tapu Koko).

I agree with most of the predictions so far with Primarina, Minior, Guzzlord etc. I think Guzzlord will find itself in BL tbh...
 
You have to keep in mind that the status prevention applies to both sides of the field, so you're also preventing your opponents from getting statused.

Moreover, whether status prevention is even positive for you depends on how you're using Tapu Fini. Misty Terrain prevents Rest, Tapu Fini's only form of recovery, so any pseudo crocune type set goes out the window. You're essentially forced into rUmunning offensive, and why would you run offensive Tapu Fini when you could run offensive Primarina and hit much harder?

The only niche Tapu Fini has over Primarina is offensive CM which is a). a small niche to begin with given it doesn't hit very hard and isn't very fast and b). has to compete with Tapu Lele which arguably has better offensive coverage in OU, a much higher base spa, and a better Terrain (powers up psychic type moves, blocks priority moves.)

Like I said, however, if Primarina doesn't get Liquid Voice I think Tapu Fini still narrowly outclasses it and will remain OU.
Um no, it's the other way around, Tapu Fini is the one that outclasses Primarina.

Primarina gets walled by every special wall there is while Tapu Fini easily gets past them with Nature's Madness+Taunt. Not to mention not getting outsped by freaking TTar ffs, having access to Defog (which is pretty important) and far better physical bulk are all reasons for why Tapu Fini >>> this thing. (saying Primarina is better is like saying Florges is better than Sylveon imo)

Also lol you can't go around calling Misty Surge worthless when there's already lots of teams and strategies used by high level players that rely on this ability. (especially to not let Zygarde rest up.)

And I'm not sure why you're insisting that Liquid Voice will make Primarina better when It's been confirmed to not have a x1.2 boost like other -ate abilities so Hyper Voice for exemple will still be outclassed by Scald and Hydro.

E: Here's a replay of two very good players that showcases a little bit of Tapu Fini's ability to disturb stall, as you can see it pretty much rendered Chansey useless because of Taunt + Moonblast to threaten Sableye if it ever decides to switch in predicting Taunt. Primarina would just have been shut down by Chansey.
 
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Euphonos

inanod ng mga luha; damdamin ay lumaya.
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Alolan Golem needs more love; while it may possibly reside in the lower tiers due to low speed, Galvanize-boosted Explosion is the most bad-ass thing ever made; it even OHKO'd Pyukumuku with a +3 Defense boosts from Curse.

However, no one in the new generation can replace Slaking as the deadliest Retaliate user, ever.
 
None of the Tapus get Rest to begin with sooo...

Anyways, Raikou will probably end up dropping (it was pretty inevitable) since electrics have been having it pretty bad in OU (unless you're Raichu, Zapdos, Xurikitree or Tapu Koko).

I agree with most of the predictions so far with Primarina, Minior, Guzzlord etc. I think Guzzlord will find itself in BL tbh...
o, you're right. mb. That doesn't affect my point though.

I agree Raikou will drop. It was barely hanging on in OU already and now with Tapu Koko and Xurkitree arriving...

Um no, it's the other way around, Tapu Fini is the one that outclasses Primarina.

Primarina gets walled by every special wall there is while Tapu Fini easily gets past them with Nature's Madness+Taunt. Not to mention not getting outsped by freaking TTar ffs, having access to Defog (which is pretty important) and far better physical bulk are all reasons for why Tapu Fini >>> this thing. (saying Primarina is better is like saying Florges is better than Sylveon imo)

Also lol you can't go around calling Misty Surge worthless when there's already lots of teams and strategies used by high level players that rely on this ability. (especially to not let Zygarde rest up.)

And I'm not sure why you're insisting that Liquid Voice will make Primarina better when It's been confirmed to not have a x1.2 boost like other -ate abilities so Hyper Voice for exemple will still be outclassed by Scald and Hydro.

E: Here's a replay of two very good players that showcases a little bit of Tapu Fini's ability to disturb stall, as you can see it pretty much rendered Chansey useless because of Taunt + Moonblast to threaten Sableye if it ever decides to switch in predicting Taunt. Primarina would just have been shut down by Chansey.
a). Like I said, in that roll Tapu Fini has to compete with Tapu Lele which hits much harder, has better offensive coverage, and has a better Terrain.

b). Access to defog is not important. Why would you run a defogger with no recovery? That would be a terrible set.

c). Zygarde Complete is going to be banned soon so that has no relevance to Tapu Fini's long term viability in OU.

d). I ran some calcs a few days ago and to my memory the discrepancy in damage output between Hyper Voice and Scald actually seemed significant. I suppose you could also run Hydro Pump but the miss chance is ugly.

e). I didn't say Tapu Fini was entirely outclassed by Primarina alone. I said it was almost entirely outclassed by the combination of Primarina and Tapu Lele. In that replay what couldn't have been done by Tapu Lele? Tapu Lele can run Nature's Madness + Taunt while boasting better offensive coverage, a much higher spa stat, and a better Terrain.

I'll drop this subject after this comment. I feel like this has turned into something of a derail. Besides, there's not really anywhere this argument can go. We can check back in a year and see what landed in OU and what dropped.
 

Pearl

Romance は風のまま
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For what it's worth, here's the list of Mega Stones that haven't been released in Gen 7 yet (credits to Spirit for putting this together). notewire already referred this in his post, but I'm adding it to the thread's OP just in case

As far as UU goes, here are the relevant Mega Evolutions we're going to lose unless PokeBank somehow allows us to transfer items this time around: Mega Swampert, Mega Sceptile, Mega Steelix, Mega Abomasnow, Mega Banette (new Prankster mechanics made this a lot better), Mega Aggron, Mega Houndoom and Mega Ampharos. Gallade and Pidgeot were BL in ORAS but could've been retested this time around. Manectric was OU in Gen 6 but was likely to drop considering all of the newly introduced Electric-type Pokemon which don't take up a Mega slot.

Regarding Pokemon that are likely to drop from OU, I'll probably make a detailed post about them in the near future, but for now I believe that we're likely to get Raikou, Starmie, Gengar, Talonflame, Amoonguss, Azelf and Mew (big sigh). As for Pokemon that could possibly drop but are unlikely to stay around for long (since we're either banning them or they'll just start receiving usage again once OU settles down), there's Bisharp, Breloom, Dragonite, Hippowdon, regular Latias and regular Scizor. On top of that, there are also a couple of BL Pokemon that could get retested depending on how the metagame turns out to be, but that's still too early to tell for now.
 

Tirishia

Banned deucer.
Alolan Golem needs more love; while it may possibly reside in the lower tiers due to low speed, Galvanize-boosted Explosion is the most bad-ass thing ever made; it even OHKO'd Pyukumuku with a +3 Defense boosts from Curse.

However, no one in the new generation can replace Slaking as the deadliest Retaliate user, ever.
Oh that's interesting. When I first saw this pokemon, I was thinking trapper. Here is the set I came up with.


Golem-Alola @ Electrium Z / Zap Plate / Groundium Z
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wild Charge
- Stealth Rock
- Volt Switch
- Earthquake

Zap plate gives you a 100% chance to knock out empoleon with 252 hp investment, otherwise its a 50% chance unless you want to burn a gigavolt havoc. Thats the main idea. You trap something and bomb it, pivot out, or set up rocks. The typing switch of golem is pretty nice, although I would have really liked a ground and electric version. Your z move should depend on what steel types you plan on trapping. The meta has yet to settle so there is no telling at this point. Empoleon might not even be around for all I know.

Golem-Alola @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Rest
- Wild Charge / Thunder Punch
- Toxic / Explosion / Return

This one sets up on trapped steel types and gets to plus 6. From there it proceeds to toxic stall the ground types and kill off everything else with the electric stab. Being x4 weak to ground, you will only be able to toxic stall out ground types that have a bit of a weaker power output even after +6. Explosion is there so you can essentially take care of that ground type right away and then bring in your pokemon that benefits from these dead pokemon. Return works ok but you dont quite get that immediate tempo take over. This set might never see play. It depends a lot on the meta.
 


I think Tapu Fini's potential drop to UU could have more of an effect on the meta than people think. The reason is Tapu Fini comes with the ability to auto trigger misty terrain upon entry, preventing status for both sides and weakening dragon moves. This allows Tapu Fini to become a consistent check to Entei, being un-burnable and taking entei's hit relatively well with its high defenses. Suicune, another one of the meta's most influential S-Rank pokemon is completely shut down, as it is unable to rest in misty terrain and can be easily KO'd with the terrain lasting 5 turns. This also applies to other bulky rest-talk users such as snorlax, which tapu fini can pivot in on. Water fairy is an amazing typing combined with respectable 70/115/130 bulk can make this thing incredibly tricky to take down, especially with wish support. Tapu Fini will face competition from sylveon as a fairy slot, with sylveon boasting reliable recovery, team support, and higher damage output, but Tapu Finis added typing gives it useful resistances and it offers role compression with access to defog. Tapu fini gets acess to taunt + calm mind + respectable 95 base speed which provides it with the utility to break balance as well and take on bulky waters that permeate UU unable to be scald burnt or toxiced. Tapu fini also gets acess to haze, an ever useful tech to have in your movepool. All in all, while Tapu Fini lacks reliable recovery, its not a mon we should sleep on, and I could see its misty terrain effect vastly effecting the meta.
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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With permission from Pearl to post this here
I made a predictive banlist for UU Beta based on what I expect to drop based strictly on OU's usage (not factoring any quickbans). http://pastebin.com/epG2gysm
I use this banlist in the UU room on PS! to make "Mock Gen 7 UU Beta" room tours, obviously in Pokebank OU format, but with that banist in play. If you hang in the UU room on PS! come around and play some games! It'll help with our speculation for what UU looks like, and maybe even give us a headstart with getting an idea of what needs to be quickbanned Charizard X and Y

Once again this is speculative based strictly on what's used in OU, the list will change a bit once Gen 7 OU's first month of usage stats come out
 
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