Skarmory (Full Revamp)

Jirachee

phoenix reborn
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http://www.smogon.com/dex/dp/pokemon/skarmory/

old analysis is super outdated, mentions things like Roar because it's a TM, and the set order is not good.

[OVERVIEW]
- Skarmory is the best Spikes setter in DPP OU
- it checks a ton of things, from Ground to Grass types as well as other things
- it's a mean stallbreaker too
- fits on a lot of teams, even some more offensive ones (not ho though)
- fuck magnezone

[SET]
name: Spikes
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Roost
move 3: Whirlwind
move 4: Brave Bird
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
- Best Spikes setter in the metagame
- Specially Defensive spread maximizes the number of things you can set up on, including physical attackers like Scizor, Flygon, and Choice Scarf Tyranitar, special attackers like Shaymin, Celebi, and some Gengar, as well as defensive Pokemon like Blissey and Hippowdon.
- also helps tanking lures like Fire Blast Tyranitar and Flygon
- Still checks most physical attackers in the metagame thanks to good defense and great typing
- Roost keeps Skarmory healthy, which is something other Steel types lack
- Whirlwind keeps Skarmory from becoming set up fodder for stuff like Gyarados and works well with Spikes
- Brave Bird hits the Grass types Skarmory checks as well as frailer stuff like Gengar or offensive Starmie

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
- Two other spreads can be used: 248 HP / 16 Def / 244 SpD Impish buffs Skarmory's physical bulk to help it tank powerful physical attackers like Choice Band Dragonite and Choice Band Tyranitar while keeping some Special bulk. 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe Impish maximizes Skarmory's physical bulk to be more resilient to Fighting types and the previously mentioned Physical threats, but means it will take an enormous amount of damage from any unresisted Special attack.
- Stealth Rock can be used over Spikes if you really need it but in general wastes Skarmory's potential.
- Shed Shell to escape Magnezone's Magnet Pull, but limits Skarmory's lifespan.
- Skarmory enjoys the support of a Spinblocker, Rotom-a in particular, so Rapid Spin users can't remove its Spikes easily.
- Choice Scarf Tyranitar is also an excellent partner because it can remove Starmie from the game, as well as Pokemon that annoy it in general, like Rotom-a.
- Hippowdon can set up Stealth Rock and call a sandstorm, adding to the passive damage Skarmory causes. It can also switch into offensive Electric types which are a threat to Skarmory.

[SET]
name: Taunt
move 1: Taunt
move 2: Spikes
move 3: Roost
move 4: Whirlwind
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
- Taunt turns Skarmory into an extremely potent stall breaker
- Spikes can be set up as slow defensive Pokemon are forced out, or simply on one of the many things you wall
- Roost keeps Skarmory healthy and makes it very hard to kill for defensive teams
- Whirlwind keeps it from becoming set up fodder and, once again, works well with Spikes.
- The extra Speed means Skarmory will always outspeed other Skarmory, as well as other defensive Pokemon like RestTalk Gyarados.
- Special Defense investment to protect Skarmory against lures and take on special attackers like HP Fire Celebi better (so you can set up on them.)

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
- The Speed can be adjusted but shouldn't be invested in too much to avoid ruining Skarmory's bulk.
- Shed Shell can be used to avoid Magnezone
- as always, Skarmory loves having a Ghost type on its team.
- This Skarmory tends to fit more offensive teams well as it ruins Stall teams and supports sweepers with Spikes.
- Tyranitar is another good teammate, who can check Electric types as well as Heatran, and Pursuit Starmie.

[SET]
name: Lead
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Spikes
move 3: Taunt
move 4: Whirlwind
item: Occa Berry
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
- Skarmory is one of the few leads that can set up both Stealth Rock and Spikes.
- Taunt can shut down slow Stealth Rock leads like Hippowdon and Swampert.
- Whirlwind makes sure you're not taken advantage of by set up leads like Substitute Gyarados.
- Occa Berry makes sure Skarmory can take on as many leads as possible, such as Dragonite and Infernape.
- Skarmory is a very high risk, high reward type of lead: while some match ups give it all of its hazards, the match up against Taunt leads like Azelf and Aerodactyl is absolutely awful.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
- Lum Berry can be used to ensure you get Stealth Rock up against Machamp while also avoiding Sleep leads, like Roserade.
- An alternative is to simply max Skarmory's Speed instead, to be able to Taunt more things. Skarmory is not able to survive stronger Fire attacks then.
- Brave Bird can be used to surprise Machamp as well as Breloom. It's even more effective with the max Speed spread.
- This set has the option of being used outside of the lead spot with Roost over Taunt as an aggressive Spikes setter.
- Since it hates Azelf and Aerodactyl, one of its teammates should be able to beat them easily. Scizor can do that, while also taking advantage of Spikes with U-turn, while Starmie can remove Stealth Rock and scare Aerodactyl away.
- a Choice Specs Zapdos switch-in is necessary as Skarmory loses to it pretty badly.
- as for any Skarmory set, a spinblocker is very nice to reduce the threat of hazards being spun away.

[OTHER OPTIONS]
- Max Speed at the cost of bulk to set up Spikes ASAP
- Toxic to wear stuff down
- Steel Wing to hit ttar and aero (lol)

[CHECKS AND COUNTERS]
- Starmie
- Magnezone
- Fire types
- Electric types
- a faster Taunt
- Rapid Spin in general
- Lures like Fire Blast Tyranitar or Will-O-Wisp Gengar
- REALLY strong physical / special attacks (ie +2 Lucario CC, CBTar SE, MixNite Fire Blast)
 
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[10:25:42 pm] <Satan> i think the occa set
[10:25:59 pm] <Satan> should have the option of being just a spdef skarm with occa > lefties (aka i use roost)
[10:26:13 pm] <Jirachee> I mean
[10:26:19 pm] <Jirachee> then what do u do vs
[10:26:21 pm] <Jirachee> gyara
[10:26:26 pm] <Satan> whirlwind
[10:26:34 pm] <Jirachee> so you drop taunt
[10:26:38 pm] <Satan> yeah
[10:26:48 pm] <Satan> or theoretically sr if you wanna swing that way
[10:26:48 pm] <Jirachee> hm
[10:26:54 pm] <Jirachee> nah
[10:26:59 pm] <Jirachee> the big appeal of that set is
[10:27:05 pm] <Jirachee> being able to set up both
[10:27:07 pm] <Jirachee> as a lead
[10:27:15 pm] <Satan> na its like
[10:27:20 pm] <Satan> if you wanna not lead w/ it
[10:27:28 pm] <Satan> and just be super aggressive w/ extra spikes
[10:27:29 pm] <Jirachee> why would you not want to lead with it
[10:27:40 pm] <Satan> cuz you know how some offense teams have skarm
[10:27:47 pm] <Jirachee> yeah
[10:27:52 pm] <Satan> its the same idea just w/ an occa to help it play more aggressively

oh and a mention of bb should def pop up (ape, taunt gyara, starmie). if it's a lum variant, bb helps it hit machamp really hard and absolutely shreds breloom, which also gets surprised by max speed occa. [10:49:05 pm] <Satan> mention some big targets max spe skarm beats are ada nite/gyara
there's also all non-scarf tar, empoleon, defensive celebi, neutral tran and most kingdra/breloom.

[10:52:22 pm] <Satan> also when you say toxic wears 'stuff' down mention pert/hippo/TAUNT GLISCOR switchin as the biggest targets as well as fucking with blissey to cause extra ww havoc
[10:52:44 pm] <Satan> oh and rotom

[10:53:29 pm] <Jirachee> why would I want to use sd skarmory
[10:53:50 pm] <Satan> "sd taunt skarm 6-0es kg stall once you pursuit rotom" - 14 y/o bkc
[10:53:53 pm] <Satan> (and he was correct)
[10:53:56 pm] <Jirachee> well
[10:53:59 pm] <Jirachee> it's true.

[10:58:14 pm] <Satan> occa set doesnt /need/ to be a lead and mention that it can be played super aggressive
[10:58:15 pm] <Satan> thats all

IRC is so convenient, lol. Nice work, you hunk! :3
 
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Sapientia

Wir knutschen
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Sturdy doesn't have a use in DPP

If I don't want to lead occa skarm wouldn't it be better to mention occa as an option on normal skarm? I anyways don't want stealth rock on my skarm if I am not leading unless I really have to.
 

SmogonWorkHorse

Banned deucer.
I hate Skarmory in general but I feel a physical defensive set is needed. There is no harm in adding another set and it has alot of benefits going for it. I am not particularly concerned of the order, if you think sp.def is beter (you guys are probably right that special > p defense) make it set one but to have something that can set up Spikes and not be forced to used Forretress; Physical Skarmory can eat Gyarados Waterfalls after a boost (you potentially take over half from +1 Leftovers Gyarados which is pretty bad...), something that in practise (I think this is the main problem, we are looking at this from a slightly unrealistic point of view guys), tank CB Dragonite, Machamp, Breloom, Lucario, Tyranitar etc. As a very wise man said, a huge niche of Skarmory is to come in and fend phase out +1 DDers which is still important to this day.

Thing is you said it still checks most physical threats, while it use to be a hard counter to some extent before, if you use this as a sp.def spiker not only do you require something heavy to tank the hits you previously could have taken better (ie. making Skarmory the primary defensive wall and having a secondary backup now its vice versa which when building stall based teams or even semi-stall is quite an issue. The problem bros is that Skarmory regardless of its set will lure in the same Pokemon, most of which you still cant really safely tank 2 hits (maybe one but you're sitting at low health afterwards)

The problem is that heavy investment in Special Defense still doesnt save this from Mix Nite, Mix Gon, Fire-types, LO Starmie, Rotom-A and electrics in general, and barely living an attack isnt exactly a good argument especially when your Pokemon isnt always 100% or that you consider no entry hazards to be down.

Both the physical and special sets got things going for them and I feel that they should both co-exist next to each other.
 
name: Physically Defensive (Mixed?)
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Roost
move 3: Whirlwind
move 4: Brave Bird / Taunt


name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Roost
move 3: Whirlwind
move 4: Taunt / Brave Bird
Physical Skarm (or Mixed) needs his own set.

I dont get the point on call a Set Spikes when any set on Skarmory exploit Spikes as well as others, Spikes is the key move on any Skarmory.

SpD Skarmory is pretty good, not only helps against LO Gengar still helps against grass types and some water types to get some free Spikes layers while retains lot of physical bulk cause great def.

96 Speed is way too much, overkill. Some Magnezone uses 252 Evs on Speed or near (Custap mostly). Everything is about some speed creep, take your bulk.
 
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