Metagame Shared Power [Under Re-Construction!]

[Snafutari]

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Toxapex (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Merciless
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Recover
- Baneful Bunker
- Surf

Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Brave Nature
- Core Enforcer
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Rest

Kingdra @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Toxic
- Flash Cannon

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Moonlight
- Heal Bell
- Moonblast

Sigilyph @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Shift
- Stored Power
- Cosmic Power
- Roost

Dragonite (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw

You may be wondering what this is. This is a team that is your guide to fun.

I actually really like this meta, and spent the first day it came out teambuilding to hell. Then I had to leave for two days, but now I'm back to confess a change of heart. I feel like Dragonite needs to be banned, and weather, a nerf, but that's it, really.

Just some of the replays I've obtained from my limited experience with this metagame.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-202145
No one likes stall. Especially without the possibility of crits. And you are using a crit team.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-202103
This is a replay where crits worked. This was fun. Take notes, Bohn Bena.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-199358
And against the bot with my old(ish) team. Its also pretty fun, especially when Flash Fire activates twice in 2 turns.

I'll upload some more, but that stall was too much for me. Fuck that team.

Edit: I'm an addict, so I got some more fights, I'm just going to post them for your enjoyment.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-202204
The worst team I have made (besides a weird Probopass team that was my first). Contrary and Calm Mind Tapu Lele on the same team. I'm not proud.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-202185
Same guy, slightly better team.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-202177
Same guy...

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-202143
Finally, another opponent!

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-202103
That's my last one, honestly this time. I need some sleep.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

I really think contrary should be added to the abilities that can't be shared. Combined with Simple its just way too much - Victini gets STAB V create, Pangoro can use Power Trip and Mold Breaker to shred defensive teams, it's just too much, Kyurem-B can decimate teams with a STAB Draco Meteor giving it +4 SpA. There's a reason AAA banned Contrary.

 

[lydian]

Hey, I have been enjoying this meta a lot! Trick Room is specially a big threat, so I woudn't be opposed to see Cresselia or Uxie ranked. I also feel like now that weather and terrain boosting abilities are restricted, Excadrill could drop a consireable bit, same with Tyranitar. Haven't tested Contrary yet, but is Serperior really C+ material?

I'd also like to report a bug where I switched a Psychic Surge Pokémon into Bullet Punch and the move wasn't stopped, I didn't save the replays.

 

[Shoopz_Whisper]

Haven't tested Contrary yet, but is Serperior really C+ material?

Yes Exploudit, it is C+ for good reason. Maybe even B-. But it's not the mon itself. It's the Ability it gives off and the fact it's not a waste of a team slot. Shuckle can also be used. Or Malamar if you feel like it. But something like Spinda shouldn't be used for Contrary. It's because of how mediocre it is compared to other Contrary providers. Also Contrary is powerful. Look at the post above.

I really think contrary should be added to the abilities that can't be shared. Combined with Simple its just way too much - Victini gets STAB V create, Pangoro can use Power Trip and Mold Breaker to shred defensive teams, it's just too much, Kyurem-B can decimate teams with a STAB Draconian Meteor giving it +4 SpA. There's a reason AAA banned Contrary.

So you wanna ban Contrary. Yay, you now have the entire metagame after you. Maybe it should be suspected. But no. With how powerful some other things are, it's not that bad. For example, status abuse. Won't go too much in it, but Toxic Boost Guts Adaptibility Zangoose using Facade? Yeah, only real counter is a Ghost-type. Also, if you ban Contrary, then you still have the users with it. I can still run Contrary Adaptibility Simple Serperior, which is scary.

tl;dr If you wanna ban this "powerful" ability, then ban the 20 other powerful abilities such as Sniper or Psychic Terrain

 

[Haaku.]

So you wanna ban Contrary. Yay, you now have the entire metagame after you. Maybe it should be suspected. But no. With how powerful some other things are, it's not that bad. For example, status abuse. Won't go too much in it, but Toxic Boost Guts Adaptibility Zangoose using Facade? Yeah, only real counter is a Ghost-type. Also, if you ban Contrary, then you still have the users with it. I can still run Contrary Adaptibility Simple Serperior, which is scary.

tl;dr If you wanna ban this "powerful" ability, then ban the 20 other powerful abilities such as Sniper or Psychic Terrain

You can’t really put Contrary in the same tier as something like Guts or Sniper (which isn’t a good ability at all). I think we should let the metagame settle somewhat before banning any more things, but it’s definitely understandable why many find Contrary to be an issue. It’s one of the better offensive abilities right now, and is way above something like Psychic Surge and Sniper.

Also I doubt Serperior would be any useful if Contrary gets banned. It still has terrible offensive coverage, and still loses to the same things that it loses to in OU. The reason it’s C+ rank is purely because Shuckle is a superior Contrary user.

 

[Level 1000 Weedle]

I would suggest that Magic Bounce be looked at for being unbanned. Magic Bounce doesn't do much that Magic Guard doesn't. Magic Bounce will deflect things such as Thunder Wave/Glare and Will-O-Wisp, but you're vulnerable to secondary effects and Mold Breaker.

Magic Bounce Pros

• No direct Paralysis
• No direct Burn
• No Taunts or Whirlwinds/Roars
• No direct Sleep
• No direct Confusion
• No Sticky Web
• Reflects moves such as Block or Mean Look

Magic Guard Pros

• Secondary effects such as being burned or poisoned will not damage you, but you will still suffer from paralysis or burn's attack drop
• No recoil
• No damage from Life Orb
• No damage from Sandstorm or Hail
• No damage from trapping moves such as Whirlpool or Fire Spin
• No damage from Solar Power or Dry Skin

So overall these abilities are pretty similar when every Pokémon has them. And I would argue that most of Magic Guard's effects can be put to more use with other Pokémon on your team, unlike Magic Bounce, which depends more on the opponent.

(when I say "direct" I mean through a status move)
(also I don't mention hazards because both abilities basically prevent hazards)

As for Aegislash, I support unbanning it. It is very similar to Deoxys-Defense, and is already on the borderline between OU and Ubers, just like Deoxys-D. While Deoxys-Defense has a bad ability, Aegislash has an ability which would not share, making them very similar in terms of team contribution. Besides, I have mainly seen Deoxys-D be used on Contrary teams since hazard setters are rendered moot by Magic Guard. While Deoxys-Defense has this niche, I cannot see any clear role for Aegislash. Besides, these are early times for this metagame, and Aegislash could be quickly banned if it turned out to be too strong.

 

[Feesh Squad]

I might as well post a pretty fun team because why not?

You like memes? Well here's a meme team I decided to make around Mega Beedrill.

Beedrill Memes

Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Swords Dance
- Spore

Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Ice Shard

Beedrill (M) @ Beedrillite
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pin Missile
- Poison Jab
- Drill Run
- Fell Stinger

Bruxish @ Life Orb
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Psychic Fangs
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet

Lycanroc-Midnight @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Endeavor
- Sucker Punch

Durant @ Steelium Z
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Bug Bite
- Stone Edge
- Endeavor

This team I built around having Mega Beedrill do as much damage as possible and god does it hurt. Hustle gives Mega Beedrill an effective Attack stat of 598. Even better, it has a Technician/Adaptability boosted Pin Missile that is guaranteed to hit 5 times due to Skill Link, allowing it to abuse a spamable 370 BP move that ignores Sturdy and Focus Sash. Poison Jab is to hit things that heavily resist Pin Missile, such as Mega Charizard Y. Drill Run is mostly for extremely bulky Steel-types (though I like never use it so I could probably replace it with Knock Off or something). Since I don't have a Moxie/Beast Boost holder on my team, I have Fell Stinger, which essentially has 150 BP and boosts Attack by 3 stages after use. For other members of the team, Breloom provides Technician as well as Spore support, Cloyster gives Skill Link while also being a backup sweeper with Shell Smash, and Bruxish gives Dazzling to prevent Mega Beedrill/Cloyster from being revenge killed with priority. Lycanroc-Midnight is by far one of my favorite No Guard Pokémon. It acts as a nice suicide lead with Stealth Rock, perfectly accurate and powerful Stone Edge, and Endeavor for weakening serious threats. This goes especially well with Hustle Durant, nullifying Hustle's accuracy drops. I never really use Durant, so this is mostly just for bopping opponents with a powerful Corkscrew Crash when needed.

Edit: Just because I want to have one, here's a replay.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-203634

Edit 2: moar!
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-205211

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-205214

 

[readytolose]

I might as well post a pretty fun team because why not?

You like memes? Well here's a meme team I decided to make around Mega Beedrill.

I actually built a really similar team to this myself, coincidentally. It has Beedrill, Cloyster, Breloom, and Bruxish too, but instead has Skuntank and Ash-Greninja. Skuntank because I think Stench is good for a Skill Link focused team, and Ash Greninja for guaranteed five-hit Water Shurikens. It's a bit sketchy since going Ash decreases its flinch chance while only gaining a marginal amount of power with Water Shuriken, so I might change it. Anyways I think Skill Link teams have a place in the meta since they bypass Multiscale and have a great matchup against Dragonite teams in general, as well as Magic Guard + Focus Sash/Sturdy. Stench adds a layer of cheese and lets them beat down fatter Unaware teams with some luck.

If I could offer criticism on your team without actually changing the composition it would be to put Sniper on Beedrill as its base ability since it's more useful. Go balls to the wall with SD on Bruxish since its bulk is bad even after a boost. Durant gets Bug Bite which is strictly better than X-Scissor due to Technician.

Anyways, Bruxish is pretty good, and I fully support it being ranked on the viability ranking. Dazzling is just way less restrictive than Psychic Terrain in that it can protect airborne mons, its not canceled out by opposing terrain, and it doesn't prevent you from using your own priority moves against the opponent. Bruxish itself is not great of course but it can do a bit of damage thanks to abilities like Adaptability and Technician. Obviously Tapu Lele is a bigger threat but it also centralizes and restricts teambuilding around itself, while Bruxish can be slotted in almost any team that needs a fix for priority. Not gonna make a formal nomination for it but I'm gonna echo some of the sentiments I've seen in this thread about it.

 

[Haaku.]

I wanted to talk a bit more about Magic Bounce as well since it was brought up in the OM room recently when talking about unbans. Magic Bounce is an ability that bounces back status moves at the opponent. However, in theory, this seems only worse than Magic Guard. Contrary Shuckle would still be equally as great since, if Sticky Web is bounced back, all of Shuckle's teammates enjoy a +1 Speed boost upon switching in. Also, Magic Bounce might just make stall even less viable (which is not a bad thing, let's be honest) while bringing new light to Pokemon like Mega Diancie which is currently mediocre. Mold Breaker Excadrill could also see a rise in usage thanks to this, and overall the metagame could very well become more diverse.

What do you guys think? Honestly, this next council ban round might feature more unbans than bans between this and Aegislash, but I'd like to hear more discussion from the community before we finalize on a decision on either one.

 

[Snafutari]

I feel like Magic Bounce is a weird ban myself, and would like to see it at least tested, especially if it makes stall worse (fuck you bohn bena).

Another thing I'd like to point out is the lack of a Magnet Pull and Arena Trap ban. Why is all I want to know. They seem even more annoying, as with Multiscale + Regenerator + Magic Guard, they can PP stall a grounded mon that can't touch you, which everyone knows is frustrating.

Another thing I realized is that Stakeout isn't banned. Should it be? I really don't know. All I can say is that at least it gives Donald Trump a huge niche.

This is probably going to be my team for a while, while I play around with it.

Stakeout Fun

Gumshoos @ Choice Band
Ability: Stakeout
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
- Return

Alakazam @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Psychic
- Energy Ball
- Disable

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Roost

Mienshao @ Focus Sash
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Discharge
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Latios @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Trick
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic

Yes, I run unorthodox sets, like my Alakazam. Yes, I realize that I probably would lose to a lot of threats with this team. I also enjoy using it the way it is, and am not planning to change it.

Another thing I did earlier today was play around with a mediocre at best TR team against the bot, and, well, this happened.

1666 Turns of BULLSHIT

I'm totally not salty. I'm saltfree that I couldn't use my TR team to beat a bot that just kept switching. Said team now has grass coverage, though.

Some other notable fights that happened:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-203124
Clutch of the century.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-203177
A battle against a fellow user of Gumshoos.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-203220
Hax. Is. Amazing.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-203237
What I said at the end explains why this is notable.

 

[W0rm]

I honestly think Mega-Gyarados should be higher in the VR than it is, maybe even A+. It has impressive bulk for an offensive mon, and as it stands, is the only Mold Breaker-mon other than Haxorus with a built in way to boost speed, and a prankster immunity to compliment that. After 1 simple Dragon Dance it's capable of devastating most teams, and is equally, if not more threatening, on Weak Armour + Defiant teams. It also lends it's partners Intimidate or Moxie prior to going mega, which are both fantastic abilities in this meta due to Intimidate's ability to render physical attackers useless when used by multiple mons, and Moxie's synergy with Beast Boost/Simple. Thanks to it's natural bulk, it doesn't necessarily even need Simple or Weak Armour to excel at it's role of setting up and destroying the opponent, as defensive abilities like Multiscale, Fluffy and Regenerator can successfully keep it healthy enough for it to find boosting opportunities (Also, regenerator and intimidate is a cool combo just throwin' that out there)

On top of that, Crunch and Waterfall provide fantastic neutral coverage, and one or the other (or both) benefit from nearly all offensive abilities in the meta like Sheer Force, Tough Claws and Strong Jaw. It's just a really solid mon all around in the meta's current state. (Also, Haxorus is decent on Weak Armour teams thanks to having Dual Chop to break sashes, though the 90% accuracy hurts and it's uh, pretty frail)

 

[Halliday]

I think before we talk about unbanning things, it might make more sense to get rid of some of the broken stuff in the current meta, namely weather. There have been many good arguments about why weather should go, but tbh I don't think they get to the crux of it. The biggest thing that weather allows teams to do is get access to a huge amount of speed control. In a metagame that's as offensive as SP is turning out to be, speed is huge, and weather offers the ability to double it out of the gate. This is huge since most of the time, most things are getting OHKO'd anyways, so the ability to move that fast is insane. Weather even gets access to a fantastic mold breaker sweeper in Mega Gyarados, which lets it get past things like water absorb, sturdy, unaware, and multiscale with little difficulty.

Edit: Just saw that you restricted speed boosting weather abilities. Nevermind all of that then.

 

[Klang]

What does everyone think about banning Mold Breaker and clones entirely?

In the battles I've played so far, Mold Breaker has been a nearly unstoppable force even limited to one Pokemon, and it's easy to see why - it effectively invalidates all defensive counterparts to the offensive abilities you're carrying. The user of Mold Breaker can have Contrary, Simple, Tinted Lens, or anything they want to barrel down the opposition, while the defender has basically no resources to defend himself against the ridiculous power these abilities provide. It is, basically, impossible to play defensively against it.

Here's a replay about what I'm talking about:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-203532

There's a case for looking at guts + toxic boost + quick feet on its own, but without marvel scale here sedertz was left pretty much completely helpless against Halliday's Kyurem. And the problem runs deeper than that - even if sedertz' team tried to make defensive adjustments to try and counter Kyu-B it would simply be impossible, as things such as thick fat, multiscale, marvel scale etc. are just flat out ignored.

I haven't played this meta enough to really say for sure it's 100% banworthy, but on the surface the massive benefit that Mold Breaker brings is worth the 1 team ability you need to sacrifice for it. In addition, I think having stall not 100% invalidated by Mold Breaker would benefit the meta by making it less of an offensively biased rock paper scissors tier.

 

[Haaku.]

I’ve been looking forward to make a post on Mold Breaker and I feel like now is the most appropriate time for it. The way the Shared Power tiering philosophy works is that we can ban an ability completely, but this is reserved for extreme cases when there are numerous Pokemon that all shine because of the same ability. Mold Breaker has two prominent users, those being Kyurem-Black and Mega Gyarados. You basically have to choose between one or the other, because Kyurem-Black takes advantage of Contrary, while Mega Gyarados takes advantage of Dragon Dance setup, meaning both can’t really be used on the same team. This means any given team is already restricted to one dedicated stallbreaker Mold Breaker mon. Now, Mold Breaker’s biggest issues is how incredibly well it does against stall since it invalidates abilities like Unaware and Multiscale. However, stall won’t be a prominent playstyle even after a potential Mold Breaker ban.

Stall still has to deal with the insanely strong wallbreakers in the metagame. Things like Adaptability Sheer Force Tapu Lele basically just run through stall, and banning Mold Breaker won’t change this. Stall is going to be a shaky playstyle by nature in a meta where so many offensive abilities can be stacked on top of each other to decimate stall teams. Now that this point has been laid out, it’s important to note that the two aforementioned Mold Breaker Pokemon, Kyu-B and Mega Gyara, are great at best against offensive teams, but they’re easy to contain with either priority, Trick Room teams, or even faster revenge killers.

The user of Mold Breaker can have Contrary, Simple, Tinted Lens, or anything they want to barrel down the opposition, while the defender has basically no resources to defend himself against the ridiculous power these abilities provide.

Tinted Lens is banned from sharing now for obvious reasons. The banning of Mold Breaker would only somewhat limit how well those other abilities can barrel down opposing stall teams. Another point I’d like to make regarding this is that Shared Power is not going to be a metagame that aims to make every playstyle viable. If the presence of healthy threats makes some playstyles fall in viability, then that’s simply the nature of the metagame and we should not ban otherwise healthy elements simply to bolster a playstyle like stall.

There's a case for looking at guts + toxic boost + quick feet on its own, but without marvel scale here sedertz was left pretty much completely helpless against Halliday's Kyurem. And the problem runs deeper than that - even if sedertz' team tried to make defensive adjustments to try and counter Kyu-B it would simply be impossible, as things such as thick fat, multiscale, marvel scale etc. are just flat out ignored.

I’d like to share an additional replay against Halliday himself. You can clearly see that the Toxic Boost + Poison Heal + Guts strategy falls apart against the team I’m using as Multiscale just ensured I live pretty much anything they threw at me. Even Kyurem-Black was pretty useless in this matchup, as it didn’t pack the power to kill my Bronzong. Bronzong then proceeded to click Trick Room and all Halliday could do was to click Protect in hopes of stalling out Trick Room turns. Jolteon and Zangoose did nothing in this matchup as well besides provide their abilities; they were simply used as sacks for Halliday to bring out Conkeldurr and Kyurem-Black.


Lastly, I’m going to share the team I used on this replay in hopes to really get Trick Room being talked about as far as viable playstyles go.

Trick Room Offense

This team aims to just do as well vs Hyper Offense as possible. Multiscale is there to guarantee I always get a Trick Room off with my Bronzong lead. Stakataka provides Beast Boost and is the best Trick Room sweeper in the metagame right now. Reuniclus is another Trick Room sweeper and allows me to slap Life Orb on every single Pokemon thanks to the lack of recoil. Mega Mawile provides Intimidate before Mega Evolving, and can simply just Mega Evolve early against Contrary teams and gain Huge Power. Crawdaunt is only there to provide Adaptability support to the team, but it’s a decent Pokemon under Trick Room itself. I posted a replay of it in action in the paragraph above, but I’d still like to hear what you all have to thing.

Anyways, this is just my stance on Mold Breaker and I used it as an opportunity to share a cool team I made as well. I’d like to hear more discussion on this ability.

 

[Level 1000 Weedle]

While Mold Breaker is a very powerful ability in this metagame, I don't feel like it's worthy of being the first completely banned ability (and for all intents and purposes Mold Breaker is the same thing as Teravolt). While it may cripple many strategies, it has the distinct disadvantage of only being on one Pokémon. That means that if you can force a switch, wall the threat, or just straight up wear it out you've removed the danger completely from the game. And Mold Breaker won't ignore things such as Magic Guard due to the fact that Mold Breaker is for attacking while Magic Guard is specifically for non attacks. Mold Breaker also won't help you against offensive abilities such as Adaptability, Tough Claws, Guts, etc. Which means that it's typically used against immunities or Multiscale. Now, with all the talk of straight up banning Dragonite (or Multiscale) you'd think that a counter to Multiscale would be a great thing. And while that does create an RPS element, Pokémon will always have that element, especially metagames like this one. While I do see the benefit in a Mold Breaker Contrary/Simple combo in combatting Unaware teams, that's more of an issue with Contrary and Simple and requires that you base your efforts around one Pokémon, usually Kyurem-Black. Again, this creates a weak point for your team because Mold Breaker won't carry.
Now, I might suggest that Mold Breaker be changed to work like Skill Swap and Transform do and only ignore/change/use the ability of the opponent in front of them. This would mean that you could safely allow Mold Breaker to share. It's just an idea, but I do feel like it could be a good way of balancing Mold Breaker.
Anyway I'd love to hear thoughts on this. Thanks for this great metagame!

 

[Jrsmash9]

Moldbreaker has zero defensive counter play and completely invalidates stall. It becomes a busted ability when you can stack so many offensive abillites onto one mon making it unwallable because it ignores defensive abilities. Its clearly the ability that's broken because every single pokemon that has moldbreaker can instantly become a huge threat and have no switchins.

 

[Mintly]

Heres my two cents on this:

Mold Breaker can sure be useful, but a lot of abilities are passive ones that are NOT Ignored by Mold Breaker, like Poison Heal or Prankster. its easy to take a pokemon like Kyurem Black down because of this, and i find it in no way to be over powered, if there are so many possible workarounds for it. teams have been doing just fine dealing with pokemon like Kyub and Megados, and i dont think that should change. at least, for now.

 

[Level 1000 Weedle]

Moldbreaker has zero defensive counter play and completely invalidates stall. It becomes a busted ability when you can stack so many offensive abillites onto one mon making it unwallable because it ignores defensive abilities. Its clearly the ability that's broken because every single pokemon that has moldbreaker can instantly become a huge threat and have no switchins.

But aren't answers to stall good? As I said, with Multiscale being so overwhelming it's good for there to be counters. You might as well ban Skill Link Technician strategies because they can beat Multiscale. And as DatHeatmor points out, abilities such as Poison Heal still work just fine. Magic Guard already invalidated classic stall, which basically made stall resort to pp stalling, which nobody likes. If Mold Breaker stops that then I think it's great for the meta. And as I mentioned before, remove the Mold Breaker mon and you've completely removed that ability.

Also, with the large emphasis on offense in this meta I figured I'd make a list of damage boosting abilities that could actually be decent (so not things like blaze).

• Adaptability
• Aerilate, Pixilate, Refrigerate, Galvanize, and Normalize
• Analytic
• Download
• Electric Surge, Grassy Surge, and Psychic Surge
• Drizzle and Drought
• Sand Stream (if you have Sand Force)
• Flare Boost, Guts, and Toxic Boost
• Huge Power and Pure Power (even though they don't carry)
• Hustle
• Iron Fist
• Mega Launcher
• Merciless
• Mold Breaker and Teravolt (because of Multiscale)
• Protean (even though it doesn't carry)
• Reckless
• Rivalry (except this is bad)
• Sand Force
• Sheer Force
• Skill Link
• Sniper
• Solar Power
• Stakeout
• Steelworker
• Strong Jaw
• Super Luck
• Technician
• Tinted Lens (even though it doesn't carry)
• Tough Claws
• Water Bubble (even though it doesn't carry)

Please tell me if I missed anything.

 

[Jrsmash9]

But aren't answers to stall good? As I said, with Multiscale being so overwhelming it's good for there to be counters. You might as well ban Skill Link Technician strategies because they can beat Multiscale. And as DatHeatmor points out, abilities such as Poison Heal still work just fine. Magic Guard already invalidated classic stall, which basically made stall resort to pp stalling, which nobody likes. If Mold Breaker stops that then I think it's great for the meta. And as I mentioned before, remove the Mold Breaker mon and you've completely removed that ability.

Also, with the large emphasis on offense in this meta I figured I'd make a list of damage boosting abilities that could actually be decent (so not things like blaze).

• Adaptability
• Aerilate, Pixilate, Refrigerate, Galvanize, and Normalize
• Analytic
• Download
• Electric Surge, Grassy Surge, and Psychic Surge
• Drizzle and Drought
• Sand Stream (if you have Sand Force)
• Flare Boost, Guts, and Toxic Boost
• Huge Power and Pure Power (even though they don't carry)
• Hustle
• Iron Fist
• Mega Launcher
• Merciless
• Mold Breaker and Teravolt (because of Multiscale)
• Protean (even though it doesn't carry)
• Reckless
• Rivalry (except this is bad)
• Sand Force
• Sheer Force
• Skill Link
• Sniper
• Solar Power
• Stakeout
• Steelworker
• Strong Jaw
• Super Luck
• Technician
• Tinted Lens (even though it doesn't carry)
• Tough Claws
• Water Bubble (even though it doesn't carry)

Please tell me if I missed anything.

The thing is that skill link/technician although beats multiscale still has defensive counterplay, while mold breaker has zero counterplay besides outspeeding and killing.

Heres my two cents on this:

Mold Breaker can sure be useful, but a lot of abilities are passive ones that are NOT Ignored by Mold Breaker, like Poison Heal or Prankster. its easy to take a pokemon like Kyurem Black down because of this, and i find it in no way to be over powered, if there are so many possible workarounds for it. teams have been doing just fine dealing with pokemon like Kyub and Megados, and i dont think that should change. at least, for now.

Stall is still invalidated by kyu b even if they run prankster/ph, there is literally zero counterplay to it on stall.

 

[Haaku.]

The thing is that skill link/technician although beats multiscale still has defensive counterplay, while mold breaker has zero counterplay besides outspeeding and killing.

You’re overestimating Mold Breaker a lot. Saying it has 0 defensive counterplay just isn’t true; for example, Kyurem-Black is plagued with a constant 50/50 if there’s a Fairy type on the field which can easily come in on a Draco Meteor and proceed to win 1v1. A big example is Clefable. Even though Clefable can takes a lot from Ice Beam, a predicted Draco will just force Kyurem-Black out.

Stall is still invalidated by kyu b even if they run prankster/ph, there is literally zero counterplay to it on stall.

How can you be so adamant about that? Prankster Haze and Prankster Spore are pretty efficient stops to Kyurem-Black and Mega Gyarados. Poison Heal turns a lot of 2hkoes into 3hkoes and so on. Also, full on stall doesn’t really exist in Shared Power unfortunately. Stall teams will more often than not have a designated revenge killer for these Pokemon.

 

[Jrsmash9]

You’re overestimating Mold Breaker a lot. Saying it has 0 defensive counterplay just isn’t true; for example, Kyurem-Black is plagued with a constant 50/50 if there’s a Fairy type on the field which can easily come in on a Draco Meteor and proceed to win 1v1. A big example is Clefable. Even though Clefable can takes a lot from Ice Beam, a predicted Draco will just force Kyurem-Black out.


How can you be so adamant about that? Prankster Haze and Prankster Spore are pretty efficient stops to Kyurem-Black and Mega Gyarados. Poison Heal turns a lot of 2hkoes into 3hkoes and so on. Also, full on stall doesn’t really exist in Shared Power unfortunately. Stall teams will more often than not have a designated revenge killer for these Pokemon.

50/50 if you will force a switch or lose the game, and if they are running a different set eg refridgerate you lose! Kyu b and mega dos can still tear through stall teams without boosts froms the likes of adaptability, touch claws, stakeout, sheer force, etc. So prankster haze does not work when the team has abilities that boost damage and prankster spore does not work on gyarados and spore users wont live switching it to kyu lol. Full stall can exist if moldbreaker is banned but in the current state it wont as you just need one pokemon to counter a whole playstyle.

 

[Shoopz_Whisper]

50/50 if you will force a switch or lose the game, and if they are running a different set eg refridgerate you lose! Kyu b and mega dos can still tear through stall teams without boosts froms the likes of adaptability, touch claws, stakeout, sheer force, etc. So prankster haze does not work when the team has abilities that boost damage and prankster spore does not work on gyarados and spore users wont live switching it to kyu lol. Full stall can exist if moldbreaker is banned but in the current state it wont as you just need one pokemon to counter a whole playstyle.

I would like to remind you that unlike some mons, Like Dragonite and Simple Mons, Mega Gyarados and Kyurem-Black isn't just "Oh I got an extra team slot, let me just slap it on there". There is also Excadrill who gets Mold Breaker but you haven't mentioned him. Also, what kind of evil person are you that you want to run full Stall?
EDIT: Also, using the Mold Breaker mon lowers team usefulness because you lose an ability.

• Adaptability
• Aerilate, Pixilate, Refrigerate, Galvanize, and Normalize
• Analytic
• Download
• Electric Surge, Grassy Surge, and Psychic Surge
• Drizzle and Drought
• Sand Stream (if you have Sand Force)
• Flare Boost, Guts, and Toxic Boost
• Huge Power and Pure Power (even though they don't carry)
• Hustle
• Iron Fist
• Mega Launcher
• Merciless
• Mold Breaker and Teravolt (because of Multiscale)
• Protean (even though it doesn't carry)
• Reckless
• Rivalry (except this is bad)
• Sand Force
• Sheer Force
• Skill Link
• Sniper
• Solar Power
• Stakeout
• Steelworker
• Strong Jaw
• Super Luck
• Technician
• Tinted Lens (even though it doesn't carry)
• Tough Claws
• Water Bubble (even though it doesn't carry)

Please tell me if I missed anything.

Where's my Serene Grace? Or any other status abuse? Weak Armor? Defiant? Stamina? You missed buddy. Also add obvious stuff so Haaku can add this to the OP for newer players.

 

[Mintly]

Where's my Serene Grace? Or any other status abuse? Weak Armor? Defiant? Stamina? You missed buddy. Also add obvious stuff so Haaku can add this to the OP for newer players.

Also, with the large emphasis on offense in this meta I figured I'd make a list of damage boosting abilities that could actually be decent (so not things like blaze).

"list of damage boosting abilities"

 

[Level 1000 Weedle]

Where's my Serene Grace? Or any other status abuse? Weak Armor? Defiant? Stamina? You missed buddy. Also add obvious stuff so Haaku can add this to the OP for newer players.

I did consider Defiant and Competitive, but they don't directly boost damage. Instead you require a stat drop to make them work. Serene Grace would just be for secondary effects which aren't part of the direct damage, while Weak Armor is just speed. Even if it is paired with Defiant you still need to be hit by a physical attack. And finally Stamina is defense.

 

[Haaku.]

Wow so this is the 200th reply in this thread in such a short time and I’d just like to say how happy it makes me to see how far this has gone in so little time! The support that you guys have shown has been outstanding, and I don’t think this metagame has a ceiling in terms of how successful it can be. So again, thank you for that!

With that being said... it’s time.

Council Bans: Round 3
Aegislash: Do Not Ban
Magic Bounce: Do Not Ban
Mold Breaker: Wait
Teravolt: Wait
Simple: Wait
Contrary: Wait

As a result, Aegislash has been unbanned from Shared Power and Magic Bounce can now be shared among the team. What this means for the metagame:

Clefable and Magic Guard can easily be passed up on for Magic Bounce. While these abilities are similar, this means that teams aren’t completely protected from Stealth Rock. I’ll explain why:

Excadrill will see a rise in usage. Not for Sand Rush shenanigans, but rather for Mold Breaker. Unlike Kyurem-Black and Gyarados, Excadrill has access to Stealth Rock and can safely set them up against Magic Bounce teams, giving it a newfound niche in the metagame. Ignoring Multiscales is also a nice trait. I can actually see this being used on stall teams because of the prevalence of Magic Bounce. Discuss the new round below, and expect a new VR shift soon!