PU Analyses Discussion Thread

Can i do an analysis on pupitar and lairon? I mean why not i've used them and they work better than golem right now. Lairon if you look at the base stats next to each other isnt much different from Doublade (which is in UU) and Pupitar can compete with Golem very well. And yes I did post the proto-type Pupitar analysis but i have re-formatted to meet the requirements of the PU staff (im new to the forums).
Golem is considered A+ in the VR; Lairon and Pupitar aren't ranked at all, so no, they don't work better. The reason Doublade is used in UU is because it has much better typing than Lairon - it ties with the Magnemite line as the most resilient Pokémon. Lairon has crippled X4 weaknesses to Fighting and Ground.

I already explained why Pupitar is unviable in your prototype thread. Larion is largely outclassed by Relicanth, who offers more Speed, more power and better defensive typing.
 
Golem is a great lead and physical tank, which i give it credit for, but it is extremely weak to special attacks that it doesnt resist
Pupitar on the other hand, has great mixed bulk and access to dragon dance,iron head (for clefairy), and shed skin.
Using the standard set for Golem and my set for Pupitar (which can still be revised) this is the comparison.
- Golem's Bulk = 301 / 291 / 166
- Pupitar's Bulk = 312 / 227 / 177

My Beta Pupitar's set is as follows:
Set Name: Hard Shelled taco
Pupitar @ Eviolite
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 126 HP / 252 Atk / 126 Def
Nature: Impish / Adamant / Jolly
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Stealth Rocks / Iron Head / Crunch / Super-Power

And for lairon...
- Yes it is weak to common attacking types such as fighting and ground
- But Golem is weak to Grass and Water, two of the most common types in the tier.

I'm not saying they are the best pokemon in PU, but i think they deserve an analysis (which i'd be more than happy to do) because they are not predictable and can sweep an unprepared team.

I also need an answer if I can begin...
 
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MZ

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Golem is a great lead and physical tank, which i give it credit for, but it is extremely weak to special attacks that it doesnt resist
Pupitar on the other hand, has great mixed bulk and access to dragon dance,iron head (for clefairy), and shed skin.
Using the standard set for Golem and my set for Pupitar (which can still be revised) this is the comparison.
- Golem's Bulk = 301 / 291 / 166
- Pupitar's Bulk = 312 / 227 / 177

My Beta Pupitar's set is as follows:
Set Name: Hard Shelled taco
Pupitar @ Eviolite
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 126 HP / 252 Atk / 126 Def
Nature: Impish / Adamant / Jolly
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Stealth Rocks / Iron Head / Crunch / Super-Power

And for lairon...
- Yes it is weak to common attacking types such as fighting and ground
- But Golem is weak to Grass and Water, two of the most common types in the tier.

I'm not saying they are the best pokemon in PU, but i think they deserve an analysis (which i'd be more than happy to do) because they are not predictable and can sweep an unprepared team.

I also need an answer if I can begin...
Unfortunately, you're going about this the wrong way. We don't write analyses and then debate the mons, the mons only get analyses when it's agreed that they are viable and ranked. Currently nobody believes that pupitar and Lairon are viable, so to get permission for analyses you'd have to prove their worth first. The only advice I can give you for this is that you're wasting you're time. Pupitar have slightly different stats and moves doesn't give it a niche, the unique things it has that you've outlined (dragon dance, better special defense) don't actually make it worth using over the multitude of similar mons in the tier. Lairon similarly has no good reason to use it. The best way to convince anybody of this would be replays with good teams vs good players showcasing where the mons perform a useful, relevant role that nothing else could, but frankly you'd be wasting your time trying to find that. There is no approval for this
 
- Just out of curiosity, what are some good replacements for Pupitar? Because if it really is so bad it doesn't deserve an analysis I need to know what to replace it with that can OHKO Muk and is a mixed tank + sweeper...
- I really do need a solid Muk counter that can soak up physical and special attacks i'm not trying to insult you (People usually get the wrong impression).
- And yeah I don't know why i thought lairon was viable......
 

TJ

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- Just out of curiosity, what are some good replacements for Pupitar? Because if it really is so bad it doesn't deserve an analysis I need to know what to replace it with that can OHKO Muk and is a mixed tank + sweeper...
- I really do need a solid Muk counter that can soak up physical and special attacks i'm not trying to insult you (People usually get the wrong impression).
- And yeah I don't know why i thought lairon was viable......
Try Tank Golem, even tho it isn't a sweeper it can fulfill the roles you want it due to its amazing role compression.
 
I think Castform has a bad reputation as a suicide lead. Instead, Castform's wide movepool could be used alongside weather, which could benefit other teammates as well.

I've tested this set and I've had mostly success with it:

Castform
Item: Damp Rock
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
4 Def|252 SpA|252 Spe
Moves: Rain Dance, Weather Ball, Thunder, Hurricane

This set uses the rain to deliver hard-hitting and accurate moves. Maxing out Speed gives Castform a chance to dish out some attacks, and, after it faints, Pokemon such as Electrode or Swift Swim users like Floatzel or Armaldo could use the rain effectively.

Thanks.
 
I think Castform has a bad reputation as a suicide lead. Instead, Castform's wide movepool could be used alongside weather, which could benefit other teammates as well.

I've tested this set and I've had mostly success with it:

Castform
Item: Damp Rock
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
4 Def|252 SpA|252 Spe
Moves: Rain Dance, Weather Ball, Thunder, Hurricane

This set uses the rain to deliver hard-hitting and accurate moves. Maxing out Speed gives Castform a chance to dish out some attacks, and, after it faints, Pokemon such as Electrode or Swift Swim users like Floatzel or Armaldo could use the rain effectively.

Thanks.
The issue with this set is that Castform's stats are just too bad for it to be worth using despite its amazing movepool. It's still very slow even with max Speed and it's awfully frail, which means that it will usually not even be able to get rain up and will almost never be actually able to attack, unlike Electrode which is fast enough to make up for its frailty. Getting rain up is vitally important and it's really hard to consistently do when you have things like these in your way:

252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Castform: 327-385 (116.3 - 137%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Monferno Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Castform: 410-486 (145.9 - 172.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mr. Mime Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Castform: 292-344 (103.9 - 122.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

These are just a few examples of really common mons that completely prevent this set from doing anything at all.
 
I see. Perhaps Focus Sash would be useful?
And maybe Leavanny with Sticky Web could help. But maybe two suicides are too many?

Also,
Castform has base 70 speed, and 262 maximum.
Monferno has base 81 speed, and 287 maximum. But without the Speed boost from the nature, that would be... 258 speed.
Stoutland has base 80 speed, and 284 maximum. But without the Speed boost from the nature, that would be... 256 speed.
So without the nature for Monferno and Stoutland, Castform outspeeds them, giving it the time for a Rain Dance!

With the Speed nature, Monferno and Stoutland would still OHKO. :( (But I *think* the Attack nature would be on)

Mr.Mime would still outspeed Castform, but for some reason, my attempts with Focus Blast have not been good.

Just a few thoughts. Thanks.
 
yeah my mistake with the adamant vs jolly things, but there just isn't a reason to use castform over electrode given that castform is literally almost never going to live to do anything else after using rain dance, even with sash (sash is bad because you need the extra rain turn)
 

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