Incineroar and Primarina are too slow to be effective all-out attackers, whereas Decidueye is the only one with the movepool to justify being something else. It gets Defog and U-Turn, has a useful signature move that has the potential to lead to lots of annoyingly useful gimmick plays, and it has enough Special bulk to tank some undedicated SE Special hits.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Popplio, Brionne, Primarina DIscussion
- Thread starter Nexus
- Start date
They're still all in a similar mediocre speed tier, but at least Prim has naturally high special defense and a good typing and Incineroar gets Intimidate. It's move pool is fine but we're still talking about a 70 base speed mon with 5 weaknesses and mediocre bulk.
Incineroar doesn't get Intimidate until Decidueye gets Long Reach, and that's gonna open up even more possibilities for it, not in terms of whole new sets obviously but it'll avoid significantly more chip damage as well as random stuff like Cursed Body or Static. 70 is fine for a mon not meant to act as a sweeper by any means, and its bulk is passable since it's also not a wall. It's a pivot, a spinblocker, a Defogger, and potentially a trapper if Shackle sees enough use.
Even without Intimidate Incineroar's 95/90/90 actually is plenty bulky and access to Leech life while not STAB boosted 80 bp running off 115 Atk is still very much solid. In theory Incineroar can in fact be an effective all out attacker right now in upper UU, Intimidate just really helps it have something extra. Which is basically the big issue I think with Primarina they created a wall/special attacker but then denied it any decent way to boost its stats or heal and I have to wonder what was going through their heads. Because it's actually kind of hilarious to me that....
The starter who is a mixed attacker pivot with a non-existent special move pool got Nasty Plot.
The starter who is a physical attacker with passable special attack and move pool got Nasty Plot
The starter who is the actual special attacker of the bunch with a great special move pool gets Work Up
Looking at this movepool either they intended Primarina to get its missing tools through future move tutors or someone at GF forgot to code in some moves...because I mean how does Primarina not even get Draining Kiss? Like alright recover and moonlight to strong or something fine but really you can't even give it draining kiss?
The starter who is a mixed attacker pivot with a non-existent special move pool got Nasty Plot.
The starter who is a physical attacker with passable special attack and move pool got Nasty Plot
The starter who is the actual special attacker of the bunch with a great special move pool gets Work Up
Looking at this movepool either they intended Primarina to get its missing tools through future move tutors or someone at GF forgot to code in some moves...because I mean how does Primarina not even get Draining Kiss? Like alright recover and moonlight to strong or something fine but really you can't even give it draining kiss?
Game Freak is just a tease sometimes.
Really, no recovery or boosting moves sucks but it's not necessarily the end of the world for Primarina. There's nothing wrong with being UU/RU material, which is currently where I can see it shining. It's got all around good stats, decent bulk, and good coverage, and I think if you slap a choice specs or life orb on it, it could be a pretty nice wallbreaker.
As other people mentioned, Liquid Voice Hyper Voice is probably best for doubles. While I would've loved for it to be an -ate type ability, in a way, it does still give Hyper Voice a boost by making it STAB. In singles, running Scald is probably the better option.
If I had to theorize a set, it'd probably be essentially a carbon copy of Sylveon's, in terms of item/evs/nature.
Primarina @ Choice Specs
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Energy Ball/Shadow Ball
Made this with UU in mind. Scald is STAB and has a chance to burn, Moonblast is STAB, Psychic hits poison types, and Energy Ball hits fellow bulky waters, even being 4× effective on Swampert. Alternatively, maybe Shadow Ball could be used for things like Metagross and Bronzong.
Course, we don't know for sure if Primarina will be UU, or what set with EVs to run until we playtest it. But I can see Primarina's moveset being something like that, even in other tiers.
Really, no recovery or boosting moves sucks but it's not necessarily the end of the world for Primarina. There's nothing wrong with being UU/RU material, which is currently where I can see it shining. It's got all around good stats, decent bulk, and good coverage, and I think if you slap a choice specs or life orb on it, it could be a pretty nice wallbreaker.
As other people mentioned, Liquid Voice Hyper Voice is probably best for doubles. While I would've loved for it to be an -ate type ability, in a way, it does still give Hyper Voice a boost by making it STAB. In singles, running Scald is probably the better option.
If I had to theorize a set, it'd probably be essentially a carbon copy of Sylveon's, in terms of item/evs/nature.
Primarina @ Choice Specs
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Energy Ball/Shadow Ball
Made this with UU in mind. Scald is STAB and has a chance to burn, Moonblast is STAB, Psychic hits poison types, and Energy Ball hits fellow bulky waters, even being 4× effective on Swampert. Alternatively, maybe Shadow Ball could be used for things like Metagross and Bronzong.
Course, we don't know for sure if Primarina will be UU, or what set with EVs to run until we playtest it. But I can see Primarina's moveset being something like that, even in other tiers.
Dedicueye is only bad because everyone expected it to be a fast sweeper. It still focuses in other departments and it's actually one of the more unique Pokemon due to its unusual combination of utilities (spinblocker that can also remove hazards and trap).
Primarina wouldn't even be that broken with Recover or Calm Mind, it just lets people who actually like this Pokemon last longer in other battle formats and allow us more opportunities to use it in a session.apparently even Game Freak doesn't like popplio
Never change your maladroit way of "balancing" the metagame, Game Freak.
Primarina wouldn't even be that broken with Recover or Calm Mind, it just lets people who actually like this Pokemon last longer in other battle formats and allow us more opportunities to use it in a session.
I dont dislike Dicidueye cuz of it not being a fast sweeper. Its that is has meh defenses combined with mediocre speed and an attack stat thats good but not great. Its actually very similar to Samurott stat wise but with a worse typing. I dont even think its trash or anything, its got a solid movepool but its gonna have trouble doing what it wants to do a lot of the time when pretty much every team is gonna have multiple mons over 70 speed with Dark/Ghost/Fire/Ice/Flying coverage. Think itll be RU...AND WAIT WHY AM I TALKING ABUT DICIDUEYE....hehe
I dont think any of the starters are...BAD if I were to rank the 21 starters I dont think any of these would be top 5 or bottom 5, theyre fine. Primarina couldve easily been way better though...but yeah move tutors could save this thing. Still think itll be fine in UU as a pretty hard hitting bulky special attacker with god coverage.
I was referring more to Boomburst lol, that'd be crazy
They could always change up the move tutors and offer new options that aren't just coverage moves or knock off rather then get stuck with a plethora of gimmicky moves that are useless even by doubles standards.
What would be better, liquid voice with hyper voice or Hydro pump/Surf with torrent?
In singles I don't know if I'd prefer hyper voice over surf (if you can just take surf than liquid voice is an useless ability.) Bonus damage when low seems more useful than going through subs to me.
In singles I don't know if I'd prefer hyper voice over surf (if you can just take surf than liquid voice is an useless ability.) Bonus damage when low seems more useful than going through subs to me.
Torrent may straight up be better on singles sets which is kinda sad...they really shouldve given this ability the same treatment as the -ate abilities
If a water type pokemon can learn Scald, that's usually run over things like Hydro Pump or Surf for the burn chance. Liquid Voice Hyper Voice would probably be better in doubles, since it hits both targets without hitting your partner and bypasses subs.
It's really not that bad. Yeah it kinda sucks but it is what it is. It's not like Torrent is a completely useless ability.