Serious Police Brutality in the U.S.

Do you believe the U.S. has a problem with police brutality?

  • Yes, especially towards black men

    Votes: 187 53.3%
  • Yes, but not specifically biased against black men

    Votes: 101 28.8%
  • No

    Votes: 63 17.9%

  • Total voters
    351

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
So they all must have deserved to be murdered? The guy in Tulsa DID have his hands up, video shows. Way to miss that. Officers said otherwise but you should probably trust video evidence. And on the subject of clear-cut lies, the allegation that Keith Lamont Scott had a gun has in no way been proven. But how about this http://abcnews.go.com/US/unarmed-man-hands-shot-cop-justification-lawyer/story?id=40770046? Where is this conviction?

And because I had to edit that post that was just too mean for you, I feel I should I say the same things in a nicer way. You say chicken and the egg. The chicken is racial prejudice leading to police brutality. The egg is black people are inherently murderers who should always be shot first in order to keep the officer safe. Now, I'm not calling YOU a racist. But maybe you hadn't considered just how fucking racist this assertion is. And I wholeheartedly encourage you to formulate an argument and try and show me that I'm wrong, cause that's how these forums are supposed to work. You don't get a blank check to say whatever awful things you feel like and then get protected from being called out on it.
I literally said that the cop who shot the guy in the back was police brutality, and then you think I said they all deserved to be murdered? Can you read what I say before strawmanning that I am a racist?
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
I literally said that the cop who shot the guy in the back was police brutality, and then you think I said they all deserved to be murdered? Can you read what I say before strawmanning that I am a racist?
If those three are not police brutality, then what are they? Was every instance of these people dying correct? I read what you wrote. How am I supposed to interpret it? I think I did so correctly. And because you believe that one instance of police brutality ever existed, you get to say that it's an isolated incident.

I think that you don't say exactly what you mean because you need just enough of a thin veil to not be called a racist, while still being appreciated by like-minded people. And when others see through that veil, you whine every time that people are using straw men and buzz words.

If I am wrong in my interpretations, in the future please be more clear. Tell me exactly what you mean when you say that it isn't police brutality for a man to be shot to death because he's on pcp.
 
-blackness made a social construct which was deemed reprehensible and genetically subhuman for hundreds of years-
-problems from this social contract still permeate in modern america in institutions like the police, education, and health care-

common response: -let's erase hundreds of years of blackness and deem it artificial; instead look at the big picture of how it affects People.-
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
Keith Lamont Scott "had" a gun in an open carry state. There is no reason surrounding the possession of a weapon that warrants a murder by the state in that situation (reminder that a similar scenario happened in Louisiana with Alton Sterling). Clearly the protection of the second amendment is only extended to white folk as it was originally intended.
 

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
http://thefederalist.com/2016/09/28/cnn-absolutely-no-clue-gun-laws-work/
Ankle holsters are illegal. The cop who shot him was black too.
Does every white person who gets shot by police deserve to be shot? Maybe it's not about race.
EDIT: also von fiedler you still haven't responded to the fact that your rhetoric of encouraging resisting arrest just causes more tension, more anti cop sentiment, and more dead bodies, white, black, cop, and civilian.
 
The people being shot by police aren't murderers.
And: criminal activity doesn't warrant death sentences by police.
many of these people are criminals or just dumb fucks who do dumb shit and die. lumping actual victims with dumb shits and criminals isnt very cool imo.

is it just me or are the people that justify police shootings with "but he had a gun!" often the same people who cling desperately to the second amendment like it's the only way they'll live to see the end of the week
many of the fuckers that had these guns are felons who shouldnt have had them in the first place. a responsible gun owner would know not to do dumb shit with their gun when the police are nearby. are cops not supposed to defend themselves if they legitimately see a gun and believe that they are in danger? even in a dangerous job, you still dont want to die prematurely.

I would be more likely to resist arrest if I knew that holding my hands in the air still gets me gunned down.
this post confuses the fuck outta me. like wtf????? that is not a valid reason to resist arrest at all (not that there are many valid reasons). that would just get your dumb ass killed. compliance increases your survival far more than resisting arrest will. if a cop shot a person who was compliant, punish them with a firing and jail time. yes, this does happen, not as much as it should i guess, but it definitely happens.

-blackness made a social construct which was deemed reprehensible and genetically subhuman for hundreds of years-
-problems from this social contract still permeate in modern america in institutions like the police, education, and health care-

common response: -let's erase hundreds of years of blackness and deem it artificial; instead look at the big picture of how it affects People.-
there are still problems with these systems today, but can you actually prove that all this shit has the focus of fucking over blacks as an entire race? like actual evidence?
also worth noting that you didnt mention hispanics too who also apparently have to deal with much of the same shit, guess only black lives matter huh? even if you only focused on blacks because the topic is focused on blacks, you just ignored another interesting piece that couldve been added to your bullshit for some reason.

If those three are not police brutality, then what are they? Was every instance of these people dying correct? I read what you wrote. How am I supposed to interpret it? I think I did so correctly. And because you believe that one instance of police brutality ever existed, you get to say that it's an isolated incident.

I think that you don't say exactly what you mean because you need just enough of a thin veil to not be called a racist, while still being appreciated by like-minded people. And when others see through that veil, you whine every time that people are using straw men and buzz words.

If I am wrong in my interpretations, in the future please be more clear. Tell me exactly what you mean when you say that it isn't police brutality for a man to be shot to death because he's on pcp.
mike brown was 100% justified. the tulsa one looked like a bad shoot, but that angle was pretty shitty from the helicopter, and the video quality was wack. still, it looked unjustified from what i can see. still looking for info on keith scott, but he was a felon who allegedly had a gun. btw that "protest" was a joke, rioting because of white police killing people but 1. the dude who shot him was black and 2. the rioters were attacking people and looting. a black man dying by police couldve have had his race factored in significantly, and it could not have been a factor at all. depends on the situation. provide proof, like ties to a neo-nazi group or something. btw, calling dude a racist who hides behind a thin veil is bullshit. can you prove dude is a racist? is saying what he's saying racist? calling someone a racist without actual proof is pretty weak, if you ask me. being shot because you're on pcp alone isnt a good reason, i agree, depends on his actions.

Keith Lamont Scott "had" a gun in an open carry state. There is no reason surrounding the possession of a weapon that warrants a murder by the state in that situation (reminder that a similar scenario happened in Louisiana with Alton Sterling). Clearly the protection of the second amendment is only extended to white folk as it was originally intended.
1. he was a felon, shouldnt have had one in the 1st place. 2. again, black cop shot him. 3. allegedly doing dumb shit with a gun is dumb, especially with police. 4. plenty of blacks have guns and use them just fine with no issues with police, etc., so stop your bullshit. 5. alton sterling was justified, here's a video explaining why down below. the cops couldve handled it a bit better, but he still couldve killed someone. 6. alton sterling was a convicted pedo who had a long ass rap sheet and was a deadbeat father. this doesnt mean that he deserved to die, no, it means that that positive propaganda about him was total bs and the world will not miss him.
edit:
I'm not saying that people should resist arrest. Not resisting is quite logical.

But when you are black, even when you're innocent, and you see a cop walking towards you gun drawn, nothing seems logical in the moment. You might get killed resisting. You might get killed not resisting.
applies to all colors, not just black.
 
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vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
I'm not saying that people should resist arrest. Not resisting is quite logical.

But when you are black, even when you're innocent, and you see a cop walking towards you gun drawn, nothing seems logical in the moment. You might get killed resisting. You might get killed not resisting.
 

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
I'm not saying that people should resist arrest. Not resisting is quite logical.

But when you are black, even when you're innocent, and you see a cop walking towards you gun drawn, nothing seems logical in the moment. You might get killed resisting. You might get killed not resisting.
If a cop pulls you over And you have a gun you have to tell them and then drop it. This applies to all races. If the philando Castile story is what actually happened, then I agree that was police brutality. But you still haven't shown proof that cops are racist, you just assume it. I will link a video in this post when I get home that goes over statistics, not narratives.
EDIT 1: BTW my answer to the poll in OP is that there is brutality but it is not racist. I think tasers are fucking awesome and should be used instead of guns if possible. Hell even harambe should have been tranquilized not killed
 
I'm not saying that people should resist arrest. Not resisting is quite logical.

But when you are black, even when you're innocent, and you see a cop walking towards you gun drawn, nothing seems logical in the moment. You might get killed resisting. You might get killed not resisting.
See, that's the thing, cops don't just walk up to you with their guns drawn. Do you have any knowledge of what the real world is like outside of the strawmen you read about on Tumblr?
 
how does that change how the police approach someone. like did the cop just know it right away like "lookie here, Johnson, we have a Felon, who isnt allowed to have a gun"? nope. u cant apply a noncapital crime as a justification for a killing someone when u know about the offence going in, much less retroactively lol
according to the news articles i found in like 5 seconds, the police were executing a warrant on another fella and they saw keith scott smoking marijuana. the officer who shot him allegedly saw keith scott had a gun on him. typically, you cant ignore a guy thats both high and in possession of a weapon. they tried getting him out the vehicle, but he resisted. finally, he exited the vehicle, but he still had the gun on him. according to the witnesses (whose statements appear to match from what ive gathered, the news articles didnt say that there were conflicting accounts), the officers repeatedly told keith scott to drop the shit and keith wouldnt listen. he was then shot. it was discovered that the gun that was collected was loaded and had keith scott's dna and fingerprints on the weapon. honestly, waiting until the feds finish would be a good idea.

Shrug im thinking if you're dealing with a known felon in like a manhunt or you just recognize him, you're even more on edge, as felons typically dont want to go back to jail, making them more likely to do anything to escape that shit, which includes killing somebody.

one thing to note is that they said another video exists but they wont release it, which is interesting.
@edit
Alfred Olango had mental illness. His sister called 911 for aid because he wasn't acting like himself. Police came and shot him.
he was shot because he had his hands in his pockets and quickly drew out something. pulling shit out your pockets in a quick manner like that is very, VERY suspicious. think about the police's side. would you really want to thoroughly analyze that shit, possibly leading to a bullet in your chest because you wasted time confirming if it was a weapon or not? the situation couldve been handled better, but taking chances like that is dangerous.
 
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vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
When white people get shot, their shooters get indicted, charged, and put in a detention center immediately. Not on paid leave.
can you wipe the bullshit off that sentence please? unless im mistaken, that's standard procedure to put them on leave after a shooting, often paid, at least in many areas, no matter the color of the deceased.
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
can you wipe the bullshit off that sentence please? unless im mistaken, that's standard procedure to put them on leave after a shooting, often paid, at least in many areas, no matter the color of the deceased.
I see that like thesecondbest you didn't bother to read the article that he linked.

Paid leave is a minimum precaution for any shooting. It is not an appropriate minimum response for a child getting shot to death, regardless of race. In THIS case, when the victim was white, the cops were put in jail. Not a glowing example of white victims being treated the same.
 
i didnt read the article because i already heard about the case. the 2 dudes who shot at the boy and his dad in the car had questionable pasts before the shooting occurred, so its odd why they were able to be in that situation at all. anyways, i want to learn a bit more about this case before i say anymore on it.


about the shit about cops who shoot white people and immediately go to jail, honestly just google these cases if you really care about them. there was the daniel harris one, the unarmed, deaf, white guy who was shot. i couldnt find a video proving what exactly happened when daniel and the cop got into the confrontation and if deadly force was necessary, but it was worth noting that the cop was put on paid leave.


with these cases, you have to completely break down all these situations that have occurred with police and make the educated call whether the shooting was justified or not. if you want to claim that the shootings of black people by police are racist in nature, prove in each case that 1. the deceased did not fuck up at all in the situation, or at least not enough to deserve a bullet, 2. the cop has a history of racist shit (like being a white supremacist group) and just being a dick in general (particularly to minorities), and 3. prove that the police are covering up the death and/or other suspicious shit is going down, like evidence (like video) disappearing. otherwise, you cant make the claim that the police are racist, just either assholes, if unjustified or just doing their jobs, if it was justified. i already said why i think the police encounters african americans at a disproportionately higher rate, they have a high poverty rate (1st in us i believe by race anyways) and crime fills poor areas, trapping many young people in that shit, possibly for the rest of their lives. also, the single parent rate is huge (lot of single mothers), the dropout rate is high, (2nd behind hispanics), and the unemployment rate isnt good, all things which have ties to crime. seriously, a child with unbalanced parenting, being poor, being in a shit environment, no job to supply themselves with money, and a lack of education all combines to make them susceptible to crime, regardless of color, and it happens much more than it should. other things that can lead to a bad lifestyle include culture. just look at hip-hop. many songs glorify gang life, violence, and just breaking the law along with "no snitching", which just makes it harder to get the bad guys off the street, especially if you're a part of the crowd that says it to be cool, not being fearful that someone will kill you for it. not saying that these songs cause crime, just that its pretty poisonous to a developing mind, particularly if not consumed responsibility. also about police encounters, im not denying that there are encounters with the police that may be racially motivated. i bet there's a decent amount of them. but just because a cop shot a black man, it doesnt prove racism, as stated above. get all the facts, look at all the sides, and just wait for new developments before you make a premature/poor judgement call.


this thread is honestly garbage atm and it was before honestly. its just continuous back and forth, with no real progress being made. i doubt that anyone's opinions on either side have largely changed, and its just going nowhere. fuck posting here anymore, it makes my head hurt.
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
Shocking that a thread on police brutality goes to hell when a contingent of people who deny the possibility of police brutality existing comes in to repeatedly to argue the minutiae of each new incidence of an armed police officer killing an unarmed person.

Also incredible that it's not about race but then race is brought up in how white people are underrepresented when they factually are not and are demonstrably treated differently.

This thread will not achieve any "progress" for the... opinionated... but it will serve an excellent place for the undecided uninformed or uninitiated to view the discussion and see the news stories about these killings by police.
 

Stuff like this just makes me so upset. Officers should hold themselves to a higher moral and ethical standard compared to the public, hence why they are enforcers of the law they're supposed to abide by. However, incidents like these really highlights that 'protect and serve' is really just a meaningless phrase that does not reflect reality.
 

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