Serious Police Brutality in the U.S.

Do you believe the U.S. has a problem with police brutality?

  • Yes, especially towards black men

    Votes: 187 53.3%
  • Yes, but not specifically biased against black men

    Votes: 101 28.8%
  • No

    Votes: 63 17.9%

  • Total voters
    351
and for the record i'm not touching the "crimes committed by blacks" argument with a 10 foot pole, though i WILL point out the fact that systemic racism/classism in America combined with a pretty shitty prison system means that it's pretty impossible to analyze crime rates in a vacuum, also the same subconscious prejudices that affect cops will also leak into a jury
Just wanted to point out that this is why I used the National Crime Victimization Survey (which related to victims perceptions of offenders) to discuss crime rates with preference to arrest, conviction, or incarceration rates -- because it was the statistic that seemed least prone to systemic fuckery, taking a description of an offender from the victim of a crime isn't perfect but it's all anyone has to go on unless there's footage and to it's one of the major resources police have to use as the basis for their investigation.

As for BLM, what a shock, roughly 99% of what they want is more money and influence (with the bill sent to someone else, naturally), just like every other political movement that doesn't actually care about anything but sustaining its self.
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Just wanted to point out that this is why I used the National Crime Victimization Survey (which related to victims perceptions of offenders) to discuss crime rates with preference to arrest, conviction, or incarceration rates -- because it was the statistic that seemed least prone to systemic fuckery, taking a description of an offender from the victim of a crime isn't perfect but it's all anyone has to go on unless there's footage and to it's one of the major resources police have to use as the basis for their investigation.
That sounds like the WORST resource to use, in case you didn't know: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/

As for BLM, what a shock, roughly 99% of what they want is more money and influence (with the bill sent to someone else, naturally), just like every other political movement that doesn't actually care about anything but sustaining its self.
It seemed like every time I scrolled down their mission statement it talked about LESS money in politics. Maybe you didn't read the link.
 

KM

slayification
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
also if you think the fact that the u.s. disproportionately convicts and imprisons black men and the fact that prisons in the U.S. are infinitely more barbaric and lead to horrible repeat offender rates aren't related, you're wrong

look, i'm sorry, but it's impossible to isolate one part of this system. you can't freeze everything at "rates of arrest" and use it to say that black people commit more crime because implicit in the statement that the justice system is rigged against black people is that it is rigged at all levels, not just one. from being far more likely to be arrested for the same crime as a non-black person to being far more likely to be found guilty in court all other things being equal to being far more likely to not receive a shorter sentence --> a systemic issue that can't be countered by saying "hey look there are more black people per capita in prison than white people, clearly it's their fault"

like ???????

evidence that black people are disproportionately arrested for the same crime white people commit: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/

evidence that the court system is rigged against black people and that white people face far less sentencing time
http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet
 
also if you think the fact that the u.s. disproportionately convicts and imprisons black men and the fact that prisons in the U.S. are infinitely more barbaric and lead to horrible repeat offender rates aren't related, you're wrong
*Cough* Privatized prisons
Repeat offenders = Repeat customers
 
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Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
https://thinkprogress.org/the-feder...actually-ending-private-prisons-40e8c8dbf976#

"While the decision will affect 13 federal prisons currently operated by private companies, the bulk of federal private prisons aren’t run by DOJ. In fact, the industry’s biggest client is the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) — a separate agency that relies on private prisons to hold immigrants, often in appalling and unconstitutional conditions."

"
Private prison companies have projected robust growth over the years thanks to the expansion of deportations under President Obama.

In recent years, the influx of refugees and migrant children fleeing violence in Central American countries has bolstered private prison companies’ projections. CCA explicitly credited a boost in revenue this year to the increased imprisonment of these Central American mothers and children."

I think it is important to call attention to what a 'department of homeland security' is, what it's relation is to the police, military, and prisons is, in a global and historical context.

"The concept of homeland security did not emerge full-blown from ground zero, but has been around in government and military circles since the 1990s as part of the effort to redefine the role of the Department of Defense and the armed forces in the post–cold war world (the Hardt-Rudman Commision on National Security, for example, discusses this strategy and uses this term).13 The conception of homeland security goes hand in hand with a more flexible multifront mobile role for the armed forces abroad, as one department of a globalized police force. Advocates of homeland security argue for the need for more government, military, and intelligence coordination, for the armed forces to be involved in this country as well, and for the government through surveillance and policing to intrude into more areas of civil life at home. In the words of a homeland security policy group, “homeland security consists of those private and public actions at every level that ensure the ability of Americans to live their lives the way they wish, free from fear of organized attack.”14 Although homeland security may strive to cordon off the nation as a domestic space from external foreign threats, it is actually about breaking down the boundaries between inside and outside, about seeing the homeland in a state of constant emergency from threats within and without. In these policy circles, homeland defense constitutes a subcategory of homeland security. The homeland is not like the home front, for which war is a metaphor, but homeland security depends on a radical insecurity, where the home itself serves as the battleground. If every facet of civilian life is subject to terrorist attack, if a commercial airliner can be turned into a deadly bomb, then every facet of domestic life—in the double sense of the word as private and national—must be both protected and mobilized against these threats.
Homeland security calls for vast new intrusions of government, military, and intelligence forces, not just to secure the homeland from external threats, but to become an integral part of the workings of home, a home in a continual state of emergency. I am not suggesting that policymakers have these multiple meanings in mind when they conspiratorially chose the word homeland. Rather, I am suggesting that the choice of the word puts into play a history of multiple meanings, connotations, and associations that work, on the one hand, to convey a sense of unity, security, and stability, but more profoundly, on the other hand, work to generate forms of radical insecurity by proliferating threats of the foreign lurking within and without national borders. The notion of the homeland draws on comforting images of a deeply rooted past to legitimate modern forms of imperial power."

https://eone10.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/kaplan.pdf


Lastly, a review. ignore the awkward parts about what activists 'really want', journalists are famously bad at figuring motivations:

http://bostonreview.net/books-ideas/robin-d-g-kelley-movement-black-lives-vision


"Reducing the military is not just about resources; it is about ending war, at home and abroad. “A Vision for Black Lives” includes a devastating critique of U.S. foreign policy, including the escalation of the war on terror in Africa, machinations in Haiti, the recent coup in Honduras, ongoing support for Israel’s occupation of Palestine, and the role of war and free-trade policies in fueling the global refugee crisis. M4BL’s critique of U.S. militarism is driven by Love—not the uncritical love of flag and nation we saw exhibited at both major party conventions, but a love of global humanity. “The movement for Black lives,” one policy brief explains, “must be tied to liberation movements around the world. The Black community is a global diaspora and our political demands must reflect this global reality. As it stands funds and resources needed to realize domestic demands are currently used for wars and violence destroying communities abroad.”"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_strategy#In_the_United_States (it is pretty clear that the grand strategy is primacy with the other 3 used as tactics to pursue it. also there is no such thing as strategy.)
 
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I have to agree that the US has a problem with police brutality (and yes, there is racism involved; it simply isn't the only thing wrong) - I can tell because the amount of police killings in the last six months within the USA is larger than the ones in my country in the last five decades.

I generally don't like discussing politics on the internet simply because people tend to massively oversimplify problems and think the solution to hate crime, prison overcrowding, corruption in law enforcement, middle-east conflicts etc. is obviously clear and can be done in like a week.
 
I have to agree that the US has a problem with police brutality (and yes, there is racism involved; it simply isn't the only thing wrong) - I can tell because the amount of police killings in the last six months within the USA is larger than the ones in my country in the last five decades.

I generally don't like discussing politics on the internet simply because people tend to massively oversimplify problems and think the solution to hate crime, prison overcrowding, corruption in law enforcement, middle-east conflicts etc. is obviously clear and can be done in like a week.
Well, where are you from? If you're from somewhere like Andorra, which is only 180 square miles, that would obviously be true. You need to look at your statistics from a per capita standpoint.
 
The US police killed more people in one month than the British police killed in the 20th century (Source). I know there are much more guns in America than in the UK, but they're still way ahead of countries like Canada and Germany (even after you factor population) that have a fairly high rate of civilian firearms.
 
could you link me the stuff that post is based on (news article i guess) that post looks like bullshit

there's a lot of bad police, there's a lot of good police, there really should be harsher punishments on police who use excessive force and it was completely unnecessary (suspect was down and completely compliant), corrupt police departments should be reformed but gl with that unless they are dumb af and secret taping/bribery/coverups get leaked, I believe that the courts are more biased towards the rich than whites (trust me, money is power no matter who has it), take for example the oj shit (dude had like a whole team of famous lawyers) and the more recent p.diddy assault case that happened relatively recently in which if they were poor they wouldve been gone and plenty of white niggas are in jail so white privileged isnt widespread as some people believe although having that many blacks in jail is unfortunate and steps should be taken to reduce that both in the legal system and the black community, racial profiling exists and its shitty but again there are plenty of bad cops and doing suspicious things / being in sketchy places can arouse their interest (although these are bullshit a large part of the time) and this does work on many offenders but again its bullshit a large part of the time, many minorities (including blacks) live in poor, crime-filled areas so it isnt hard to believe that many of them get arrested as your environment has a huge effect on you and african americans have the highest poverty rate in america so it makes sense that many of them live in poor, crime-filled areas, if you encounter the police be respectful and smart so they dont have any reason to kick your shit in, be lucky and encounter good police, blacks being killed by police isnt systematic genocide as ive heard it being called the black population is still rising just fine i believe and again all police arent bad

if you disagree with anything in this post (which im sure people will) feel free to respond
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
could you link me the stuff that post is based on (news article i guess) that post looks like bullshit
Lazy Googling didn't read the articles just the headlines.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/03/police-union-threatening-to-boycott-49ers-games/
http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollyw...ing-beyonce-concert-may-forced-work-security/
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/19/us/beyonce-police-boycott/
http://www.thewrap.com/quentin-tara...nt-experts-split-on-how-to-weather-the-storm/
https://thinkprogress.org/police-of...lives-matter-t-shirts-3fb55ccf66c8#.azhgjhmlo

As for the rest of your post you do bring up pertinent things like how money affects things, but it's important to remember that a lot of these things don't happen in a vacuum. Yes class has a large effect on how police treat you or how the justice system treats you, but that does not preclude things from race also having an impact as well as gender and/or sexuality. It's also v important to note how things like Race, Gender, Sexuality intersect with class and how they impact your access and opportunities which affect class status and class "mobility". ALSO ALSO worth noting how certain legal policies are targeted along those lines to end up disenfranchising specific groups of people (Voter ID Laws, War on Drugs) to simultaneously maintain that groups class status and power and how the police are sent into those areas to enforce those policies and maintain the "status quo". Myzozoa has made these points in this thread far more adequately than I could but the police exist to maintain class structure and the class structure is manufactured in such a way (through white supremacist governing, policies, and policing) that results in Black people and other peoples of color to be the majority of the lower class.
 
This is gonna be long as shit also this whole post is a WIP atm too tired from typing for so long

1st article- cops pussy, Kaepernick calling officers pigs isnt fair to the good ones and showing him police training would be good
2nd & 3rd article- cops pussy, Beyonce is overrated, bashing good cops along with bad cops is unfair
4th- good police exist along with bad ones, blah, blah, blah
5th- blah, blah, blah, cops pussy, blm, and all that good stuff
i smell some liberal bias in these wish the news had no bias at all but w/e fuck fox news and cnn

maybe its because you're annoying cunts that often demonize the police as a whole and make it so that they get pissed off I mean who wants to be called pigs everyday, especially if they do their jobs well besides the police don't just shoot black people and many shootings are justified (rip to the people killed unjustifiably)

Hearing that old "I have less opportunities because I'm a minority " shit is pure bullshit for a few reasons. First off, African Americans and Hispanics have a higher dropout rate than whites. Of course, there are many reasons that would cause someone to drop out, but is racism one of these (not talking bullies, im talking about gov't racism)? Give me evidence for this. Second, African Americans and Hispanics have a higher unemployment that whites. Is THIS from racism, or is this from other factors that are uninfluenced by racism (like the dropout rate above)? Again, evidence please. Third, capitalism does not care about your race, sexuality, etc. There are many minorities that have succeeded in business on a decent scale or a huge scale, and their backgrounds range from being in rich families to the broke kids in the cities, barely surviving. If you want opportunities, you gotta make them for yourself (and having a dose of luck doesnt hurt). Not denying that there are corrupt people in gov't and its history and origins are fucked, but it's definitely not as awful towards blacks/other miniorities as it was decades/centuries ago.

Also about that gender shit, females have a lower dropout rate than males across the races (except black in 2014), have it easier in courts (females tend to get lesser sentences), and are given the same opportunities as men. However, if you made the argument that men get fucked over in the courts more than women and that women have privileges men dont have, I will agree.

As for the War On Drugs shit, the highest percentage of people arrested for drugs was whites and more whites were arrested more than blacks and hispanics. More African Americans are arrested for murder, but just look at gang violence in places like Chicago, or Chiraq as some people call it due to the high murder rate. I just heard like a week ago that there were like 500 murders so this year alone in Chiraq, and it's gonna continue to climb for sure (not that it was just blacks that killed people, but a grand majority were). Yeah, there were some parts of it that appeared to fuck over the poor (and by extension, minorities, but again, aa's have the highest poverty rate) more (like making it easier to get longer sentences with crack cocaine, which is cheaper than reg cocaine, thereby making it worse for the poor), and those policies could use some cleaning up, but it's gonna take global cooperation, years and years of effort, and thinking of ways to reduce the jailed population for drugs, like legalizing marijuana (why is this illegal but alcohol isn't I don't understand if used responsibility its okay).

Ignore this, for this is a WIP, head starting to hurt

As for the article Myzozoa posted about police being created to control poor people or some shit, http://lawcha.org/wordpress/2014/12...ce-created-control-working-class-poor-people/, its bullshit and here's why. It's true and fucked up that poor people suffer with crime more that richer people, but who are the people committing these crime against them? Other poor people. That "few bad apples" excuse is ass, gangs, drug dealers (not talking weed either, im talking hard shit), and other scum overpopulate these areas. Shooting unarmed men is fucked up, unless they were like Mike Brown and fought with police or did other dumb shit like making suspicious movements (quick, unpredictable movements, appearing to grab stuff). The afraid of black people line is also bullshit because many of the criminals in poor places are not just black, they are white, hispanic, and others too, and again, not all police are racist (I would say that most police aren't because there isnt any hard data showing this but people that say that they are have some hard evidence or some shit). The article also says that the police were balls deep in Northern immigrant neighborhoods, and the general wording of that part of the article suggests to me (i mightve read it wrong but its what i see) that those neighborhoods didnt have that much crime, which is false. Although there were racist police in those days (and today), just genuinely keeping order in these neighborhoods doesnt mean they were racist. Although there were (and is) a lot of false charges, which is wrong, the dude who wrote the article didnt even mention that immigrants did any wrongdoings. In those Chicago riots, the citizens were definitely not completely innocent. Haymarket had a dude throw dynamite at police, and 7 police ended up dead, albeit the police's conduct was poor as well. With regards to prostitution, it was illegal in those days, wasn't it (correct me if i am wrong)? If they break the law, they get arrested right? It sucks if they had to resort to it to get money, and if you need to survive you gotta do what you can, but its still illegal. Again, there is bad police, but the article paints them all to be monsters.


With regards to sexuality and class/opportinities, not everyone in non-cisgendered/non-heterosexual(/whatever else I missed) groups advertise that shit, so the statistics for that will definitely be fucked, but I'll look for something about it anyway later and edit it in this post. Like with race, it doesn't matter with regards to business (unless someone hates that shit, good thing it isnt widespread like that).

Ima read up on the voter id laws because its been a while since ive studied that in school, but its definitely not on the same level as jim crow, with bullshit poll taxes and impossible literacy tests, and I'll edit this post about this later if I remember.

The police, court, and prison systems could all use some reform, and shit happens, but you cannot claim that these systems are racist (man this word is used so much) just because aa's get arrested more and serve more time. They drop out more, hold less jobs, populate poor, crime-filled areas more, and commit crime themselves, and the ones that do should be held responsible. Reducing the drop out rate, cleaning up the cities, and reducing crime are all necessary to improve the quality of life for the poor (whites and minorities alike) and making life in the us even better (be honest, living in the us could be much worse, either time travel or move to those countries with absolutely shit gov't systems)

 
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Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
lol ok u said to ignore right, will do. thanks for understanding, it really saves me effort. ill give you a hint tho, it's not okay just to kill someone if theyre poor. i know it's hard to know right from wrong. capitalism is not an alibi for racism in theory, or in practice as rich black people continue to be victimized by police because of their blackness.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/22/trump-ohio-campaign-chair-no-racism-before-obama
http://www.theblackloop.com/2016/09...tory-reveals-shes-done-similar-things-before/
http://www.blacklivesmattersyllabus.com/fall2016/
"9/29 What Do “They”Want? Approaching The Policy Demands of BLM
Contrary to what mainstream media would have us believe, black lives matter has always been a movement organized around specific sets of demands. Though it is true that these demands have been varied and shifting, the fact remains that BLM has always had concrete demands (whether it be the early demand that Police Officer Darren Wilson be indicted for the killing of teenager Michael Brown or the more recent demand that police departments across the nation be defunded and demilitarized). This week, we will focus on the history of the movement’s shifting demands. In an attempt to respond to the often-asked question “What do they want?” – we will closely examine the 2016 platform statement of the Movement for Black Lives. Finally, we will also seek to put pressure on the assumption that policy/legislative reform is the most valuable way to measure the “success” of a social justice movement.

  • Read:
    *The Movement for Black Lives, “A Vision for Black Lives: Policy Demands for Black Power, Freedom, and Justice”
"



http://www.thefeministwire.com/2014/10/blacklivesmatter-2/


http://www.activistpost.com/2016/09/gang-members-implicate-u-s-govt-dumping-crates-guns-chicago.html



"Freeway’ Ricky Ross was California’s most successful drug kingpin during the explosion of the crack epidemic in the 1980s, and later implicated the CIA as the source for cocaine. Presidents Reagan, Bush Sr. and Bill Clinton are all implicated in the revelations of drug-running in the U.S. during the ’80s an ’90s in Mena, Arkansas, which also links the Arkansas State Police to smuggling, culminating in the suspicious murder of Vince Foster.


Again, the list goes on and on; however, with the recent rise of violence in Chicago involving over 3000 shooting victims in 2016 so far (January 1st to September 13th), it appears that another case of U.S. sponsored gun-smuggling and intentional destruction of inner-city communities may be at play.

In a publicly available video testimony an ex-Chicago gang member describes how crates of fully automatic firearms would regularly be found in alleyways and backstreets of urban Chicago at the early hours of the morning, giving free, illegal weapons to the gangs of Chi-Town, which is now often referred to as Chiraq because it is a war zone."




https://www.theguardian.com/comment...illing-protests-america-law-enforcement-today -just someone in my fb feed getting published in the guardian from much the same line of questioning as i posed in my earlier comments to Aldaron . a well sourced article:


"But those of us who are not served by the police remember that the gun reportedly found on Che Taylor was traced to a sheriff’s deputy. We remember that officer Michael Slager was caught planting a weapon on the body of Walter Scott after he was shot in the back while running away. We remember that Samuel DuBose was politely interacting with police during a traffic stop when officer Ray Tensing shot him in the head and then immediately claimed to his superiors that DuBose had tried to run him down. We remember that officers claimed that 19-year-old Laquan McDonald was threatening them with a knife, until video revealed that he was running away from officers when he was shot 16 times.

We’ve always known the police are “not in service” – they just aren’t even bothering to hide it anymore. Black Americans know that the police don’t serve us. But who do they serve? And if they serve you, is this really what you asked for?"
upload_2016-9-23_13-35-49.png

“My, what a big blind spot for institutionalized racism you have, Grandma.”
 
i completely forgot to finish that post and ill do it later but ill respond to you first but for real whats with the shitty blog posts and painfully biased news sources

lol ok u said to ignore right, will do. thanks for understanding, it really saves me effort. ill give you a hint tho, it's not okay just to kill someone if theyre poor.
capitalism is not an alibi for racism in theory, or in practice as rich black people continue to be victimized by police because of their blackness.
i didnt say that killing poor people is okay. i said that poor people tend to have this happen more because many are in crime-ridden places, no matter the color. if you dont mind, link me some cases involving rich blacks being victimized. i remember like one and i forgot the dude's name. anyways, money is a great way to overcome the "racist" system. just look at r.kelly, brandy, diddy, and oj. they all escaped jail time due to their ability to get famous lawyers with their millions of dollars.

Though it is true that these demands have been varied and shifting, the fact remains that BLM has always had concrete demands (whether it be the early demand that Police Officer Darren Wilson be indicted for the killing of teenager Michael Brown
Michael Brown attacked the cop, was a suspect in a robbery (surveillance footage of store), and the claim that his hands were up did not match with the evidence. they left his body out for hours due to the wild crowd and gunshots ringing out. also please read the justice department's look at the case and why darren wilson was not convicted of killing mike brown. been a minute since i read it, but i remember it was a good read. https://www.justice.gov/sites/defau...doj_report_on_shooting_of_michael_brown_1.pdf < click here a blm dude was also bodied with this on the news

or the more recent demand that police departments across the nation be defunded and demilitarized.
having grenade launchers and full auto shit is a bit much, but snipers, swat teams, and flashbangs are definitely fine. it's also questionable to defund police when it makes it harder to do their jobs.

i dont agree with everything she said, but people do need to acknowledge that members of their own communities are responsible for destroying their own communities, blacks have a higher dropout rate than whites, blacks are unemployed more, and blacks are more likely to live in single parent households, which all combines to creating more hardships for themselves.

wow what a shitty website, and a shitty post at that. anyways, the doj couldn't even prove that martin was unjustifiably killed by Zimmerman, who oddly became a white guy in the eyes of protestors. sure, he's an asshole, but the shooting couldn't be proven unjustifiable. there's also a lack of good data to back up their ideology, just "feelings". blacks, despite being 13% of the population, were arrested for crime at a disproportionately high rate, and dont feed me bullshit like these are all/mostly false arrests or they're all/mostly/many victims. blacks were arrested for 50% of murders, and more than half of robberies. its also worth nothing that blacks were arrested for killing blacks 2,245 times in 2013, whereas white people being arrested over killing other whites was 2,509, despite being 13% of the population. blacks also killed more and made up more of the murder victims than whites in 2014. downplaying black on black crime (which is actually a big problem, much bigger than police deaths for sure) and black crime in general while complaining that blacks are being systemically victimized on a large scale by white supremacists is bullshit. so far, 194 black people have been killed by police in 2016 (huff post stats, hate them but w/e google is fast), while 2,245 blacks were arrested for shooting other blacks in 2013. there's more i could touch on, like one of the founders of blm being influenced by a cop-killer, but my head hurts too much from reading that shitty post.

http://www.activistpost.com/2016/09/gang-members-implicate-u-s-govt-dumping-crates-guns-chicago.html



"Freeway’ Ricky Ross was California’s most successful drug kingpin during the explosion of the crack epidemic in the 1980s, and later implicated the CIA as the source for cocaine. Presidents Reagan, Bush Sr. and Bill Clinton are all implicated in the revelations of drug-running in the U.S. during the ’80s an ’90s in Mena, Arkansas, which also links the Arkansas State Police to smuggling, culminating in the suspicious murder of Vince Foster.


Again, the list goes on and on; however, with the recent rise of violence in Chicago involving over 3000 shooting victims in 2016 so far (January 1st to September 13th), it appears that another case of U.S. sponsored gun-smuggling and intentional destruction of inner-city communities may be at play.

In a publicly available video testimony an ex-Chicago gang member describes how crates of fully automatic firearms would regularly be found in alleyways and backstreets of urban Chicago at the early hours of the morning, giving free, illegal weapons to the gangs of Chi-Town, which is now often referred to as Chiraq because it is a war zone."
So im supposed to trust the word of drug kingpins and gang members? the fuck? even if the gov't supplied guns to the inner city, that doesnt mean that those murderers have an excuse to murder people. why not just remove the guns from their own neighborhood? also, do people take pictures of these crates? show me. ima read up on the mena & vince foster case if I have time. about the drugs, even if they were supplied to the inner city by the gov't, you dont have to use, buy, or sell drugs, and its not an excuse to use, buy, or sell drugs. personal responsibility is key.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...illing-protests-america-law-enforcement-today -just someone in my fb feed getting published in the guardian from much the same line of questioning as i posed in my earlier comments to Aldaron . a well sourced article:


"But those of us who are not served by the police remember that the gun reportedly found on Che Taylor was traced to a sheriff’s deputy. We remember that officer Michael Slager was caught planting a weapon on the body of Walter Scott after he was shot in the back while running away. We remember that Samuel DuBose was politely interacting with police during a traffic stop when officer Ray Tensing shot him in the head and then immediately claimed to his superiors that DuBose had tried to run him down. We remember that officers claimed that 19-year-old Laquan McDonald was threatening them with a knife, until video revealed that he was running away from officers when he was shot 16 times.

We’ve always known the police are “not in service” – they just aren’t even bothering to hide it anymore. Black Americans know that the police don’t serve us. But who do they serve? And if they serve you, is this really what you asked for?"
View attachment 70237
“My, what a big blind spot for institutionalized racism you have, Grandma.”
yeah, bad cops definitely exist, thats a fact. maybe its because there are a lot of bad people in our population? anti-police beliefs definitely arent fixing anything. what about all the cases in which the police got justice for victims (whatever color) and their families, national news or not, and many of these cases definitely exist? obviously, with a position like this, there are bound to be people who abuse their power and are overly violent in such a position. you gotta look at each police officer and case individually and thoroughly. terrible shit definitely happens to innocent people by police at times (all colors, not just black), but if you really want black lives to be improved, focusing more about inner city crime (which happens more frequently) and finding ways of reducing it, like improving on education, family, and employment would be amazing. btw blm and all its copies (blue lives, white lives, all lives) are all annoying to look at. fuck bad cops, good cops are cool.
 
There was a case recently where a woman in Las Vegas put signs up all around her house saying "an Autistic man lives here - no excuse cops." because they were called to a disturbance, and basically almost killed him. The man in question has the mind of a toddler, so couldn't comprehend what was going on. The US police need more training in dealing with the mentally ill.

Links: http://distractify.com/news/2016/09/02/mom-paints-sign-autistic-son-police
Stuff like this is really distressing. I do not believe it is just an issue of training at this point but an issue of culture within the police (fairly aggressive and militarised, less people-oriented, shit like 'I'd shoot in a heartbeat', other more institutional issues) that even precludes that training from being meaningful. I'd believe it was an issue of training if it was the asshole waiter that doesn't ask me if I want fries cuz I'm hard of hearing but talks to my date like they're my handler. It's very frightening as a person with multiple disabilities to see how police treat us. There have been many beatings within recent years of 'non-compliant' hard-of-hearing, Deaf, etc. people, I've literally had a taser pointed at bystanders in my uni housing cuz someone at my college who was mentally ill had recently been involved in an incident so any mental illness emergency call to that place was high alert and required three police cars or something, killings of mentally ill people who are not capable of engaging correctly with the police officer but are not physical threats. Stuff like this extends to hospitals where mentally ill and old people are kept and also when sick people are kept in custody, a lot of deaths can happen because of unnecessary rough handling in prolonged custody, unusual force against very sick people, denial of medication and medical care, etc. Being autistic myself and knowing a lot of autistic people, even in Australia (where the brutality is similar but the deaths tend to be in custody and stuff or due to tasers or due to [very racially-stratified] terrible conditions in incarceration, police shootings are much less common than in the USA) news stories like these make our parents worry a lot.

Other emergency services tend to take the human elements of the situation into account a little more, even if there can be issues there.
 
If you are of African descent and I don't mean in the distant past, please like my post. If you don't like my post then you probably aren't even qualified to talk about an issue involving black people and cops. If you are not black then please stfu about all this, you can only define what racism truly is when you've experienced it.
How is being from African descent a 'qualification' to talk about a pressing issue in American society? Anyone who has a half-functioning brain and a sense of justice has the right to voice their opinion. In fact, a third party is essential, as they help to objectively adjudicate the dispute and propose solutions which appease both parties. Without this opinion, no real progress will materialize, as both parties will have their own interpretations of the problem and will likely have significant difficulty in understanding another's point of view. Consequently, a consensus between both the police and African american population would become significantly more difficult to obtain.


Okay, just resist and see what happens. Police brutality is a thing, but if you think that they don't shoot whites at a similar if not increased rate; you are delusional.

If you think black people get killed more than white, by police, you are delusional. I'm not talking about adjusted rates to account for the actual white population in comparison to the black population. That's just conjecture.
Breakdown of those shot by police in 2016

Here's a resource which exhibits the total number of people killed by U.S. law enforcement thus far. Mathematically, you are correct -- nearly twice as many caucasians have perished at the hands of police so far in 2016. However, what really matters is the proportion of those killed relative to the population. Of course more white people are shot by police given that they make up the majority demographic of the U.S. No one here is arguing otherwise. The issue is that while African Americans make up ~13% of the State's population, they make up ~25% of those shot by the police, whereas caucasians, who make up ~63% of the population, make up only ~46% of those shot. We can clearly deduce that as an African American, you are more likely to die at the hands of the police. Therefore, issues exist, meaning that this thread holds validity. This isn't a 'conjecture' -- a conjecture is something that is baseless and has no hard facts to support it. Here are your hard facts.
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
Alfred Olango had mental illness. His sister called 911 for aid because he wasn't acting like himself. Police came and shot him.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nyda...shoot-man-witnesses-unarmed-article-1.2809204

from the article said:
"I called for help, I didn't call for you guys to kill him!" she screams in the video. "Oh my God, you killed my brother!"

...

"Why couldn't you guys Tase him? Why, why, why, why?" the sister wails. "Why couldn't you Tase him? I told them he's sick."
 

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
Of course more white people are shot by police given that they make up the majority demographic of the U.S. No one here is arguing otherwise. The issue is that while African Americans make up ~13% of the State's population, they make up ~25% of those shot by the police, whereas caucasians, who make up ~63% of the population, make up only ~46% of those shot. We can clearly deduce that as an African American, you are more likely to die at the hands of the police. Therefore, issues exist, meaning that this thread holds validity. This isn't a 'conjecture' -- a conjecture is something that is baseless and has no hard facts to support it. Here are your hard facts.
When adjusted per capita, yes, black people are shot by police more. But when adjusted by murder rate per race (https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....f_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls) where black people commit around the same amount of murder, then there isn't an issue. Studies have also shown that black people are more likely to resist arrest. I think this a a chicken v egg problem: some blame the police for killing black people and then say anti-cop sentiment is justified, some blame black people for having a higher murder rate and then say that police actions are justified. But calling this hard facts when adjusting it on race and not criminality is misleading.
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
The people being shot by police aren't murderers.

And: criminal activity doesn't warrant death sentences by police.
 
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thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
I would be more likely to resist arrest if I knew that holding my hands in the air still gets me gunned down.
Michael brown never had his hands up. the guy in tulsa was reaching into his car (EDIT: and also high on pcp, like wtf). keith lamont scott had a gun.
Now, the one 2 years ago where the cop shot the guy in the back, that was police brutality. AND HE WAS CONVICTED FOR IT. When it is police brutality, they get punished. When it isn't, police don't. Not all cases are justified, but not all cases are brutality either.
So please don't say garbage like this, encouraging people to resist arrest... that will just lead to more police shootings and more shootings of police. People like you and Black lives matter encouraging anti police actions just makes the situation worse.
 
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vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Michael brown never had his hands up. the guy in tulsa was reaching into his car. keith lamont scott had a gun.
So they all must have deserved to be murdered? The guy in Tulsa DID have his hands up, video shows. Way to miss that. Officers said otherwise but you should probably trust video evidence. And on the subject of clear-cut lies, the allegation that Keith Lamont Scott had a gun has in no way been proven. But how about this http://abcnews.go.com/US/unarmed-man-hands-shot-cop-justification-lawyer/story?id=40770046? Where is this conviction?

And because I had to edit that post that was just too mean for you, I feel I should I say the same things in a nicer way. You say chicken and the egg. The chicken is racial prejudice leading to police brutality. The egg is black people are inherently murderers who should always be shot first in order to keep the officer safe. Now, I'm not calling YOU a racist. But maybe you hadn't considered just how fucking racist this assertion is. And I wholeheartedly encourage you to formulate an argument and try and show me that I'm wrong, cause that's how these forums are supposed to work. You don't get a blank check to say whatever awful things you feel like and then get protected from being called out on it.
 

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