SPOILERS! Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon News & Discussion

[R_N]

I think if anything killed alolan forms its the z moves.
& I don't mean from a "there was no time!" stand point
They keep having the z moves as their "big" multi-month reveals like the megas in ORAS were even though they...really...really aren't

I could easily see gamefreak, in their extremely weird brand of nonsense, think z moves are the defining feature because its the new battle add on like megas were. And thus the huge constant focus on z moves from:
-Presumably 3 of the moves being part of the initail reveal trailer
-The enhanced z ring being the stinger for the initial trailer
-Having an extended part of the first real trailer be about the z ring
-Dedicating the worlds reveal to...a z move
-Every time a z move (OR MORE) is in a trailer it gets like half the run time
-Literally, the last trailer reveal was almost 2 minutes on 2 z moves and the enahnced rotom dex, and one of those features was using more z moves
-z crystal merchandise all over the place

Z moves have gotten more attention and focus from gamefreak than the actual new pokemon

E: I bet that next month's ~big reveal~ will be Mimikyu & Togedemaru's z moves and one other thing shoved to the side like the battle tree or w/e

 

[Deleted User 400951]

Hey, so looking through the Monotype server on Discord, I found something of concern:

That's really not that much more. It worries me, because if this is true, then those Ultra Portals are really pretty much just corridors to the UBs and nothing else. We might not be getting much more...

 

[Gabe]

I suspect Gamefreak’s focus on Z-moves coincides with their shift towards a Shonen-anime influence on their franchise. Pokémon such as Lucario & Greninja feel like responses to hugely popular anime like Naruto/DBZ. Z-moves are just like Naruto’s Rasengan, Goku’s Kamehameha, Yusuke’s Spirit Gun, etc. Signature finishing moves have been such a core element in so many anime/manga I’m surprised it took them so long tbh.

I do think that Alolan forms were a cooler core concept from Gen 7, so I would be disappointed if we didn’t get more.

 

[Mova]

Yeah, regional variants were pretty cool to see in Alola, but I'll be disappointed if we don't get any more this generation or later.

 

[R_N]

Hey, so looking through the Monotype server on Discord, I found something of concern:
View attachment 89679

That's really not that much more. It worries me, because if this is true, then those Ultra Portals are really pretty much just corridors to the UBs and nothing else. We might not be getting much more...

Well nothing about what we saw of the ultra space really implied more than a fancy corridor (possibly with obstacles) so that's hardly surprising.

That said, the file size shouldn't be that big an indicator of anything. SM was almost twice as much as XY were. ORAS was 1.8 to XY's 1.7.
It's more about coding practices than anything else for the marginal shifts, honestly.

 

[jordanthejq12]

Is it possible that some of that is optimized code? This is the second game on this engine and system, after all.

 

[TenshouYoku]

Is it possible that some of that is optimized code? This is the second game on this engine and system, after all.

I won't put my hopes on that too much, given that XY to ORAS the coding still sucked balls and is laggy as hell 3D or not.

 

[R_N]

I won't put my hopes on that too much, given that XY to ORAS the coding still sucked balls and is laggy as hell 3D or not.

the sad thing is am pretty sure ORAS was more optimized. It still had lag, but less so.

 

[Johta]

Is it possible that some of that is optimized code? This is the second game on this engine and system, after all.

The more optmized the code is, the smaller the file should be, not the other way around so no.
If anything I expect USUM to have slightly smoother animation, but no more than that.

 

[Karxrida]

I'm pretty sure what Jordan meant was the file size is only slightly bigger because the new stuff might have been coded in optimially, and thus didn't take up much space.

 

[Siggu]

The more optmized the code is, the smaller the file should be, not the other way around so no.

Well, technically it can be optimized and still have a metric ton of more assets that end up taking more space than before... but who seriously expects that to be the case? Not me, for instance.

Let's think instead of which areas could have been sacrificed in order to add Mantine Surf and the new Ultra Space zones.

 

[Deleted User 400951]

Well, technically it can be optimized and still have a metric ton of more assets that end up taking more space than before... but who seriously expects that to be the case? Not me, for instance.

Let's think instead of which areas could have been sacrificed in order to add Mantine Surf and the new Ultra Space zones.

Likely none. 400 MB is enough for this all, especially if they're optimizing it as people are saying. I definitely don't believe they cut anything. If they did, maybe they cut a Poké Ride? Hope so, I hated those.

I barely know anything about programming and storage, so idrk. This guess is just from what I do know, which may be wrong.

 

[TenshouYoku]

the sad thing is am pretty sure ORAS was more optimized. It still had lag, but less so.

Except opening 3D mode still causes so much lag it is almost unbearable....

 

[R_N]

Except opening 3D mode still causes so much lag it is almost unbearable....

horde battles in xy without 3D caused single digit frame dips on my 3ds while i never encountered that in oras

which is still ridiculous, mind you, since other 3ds games don't have this problem but this drum has been beaten for the past 5 years

Well, technically it can be optimized and still have a metric ton of more assets that end up taking more space than before... but who seriously expects that to be the case? Not me, for instance.

Let's think instead of which areas could have been sacrificed in order to add Mantine Surf and the new Ultra Space zones.

You might be joking but I think nothing was dropped since there's nothing to drop. We've seen basically every area and several returning areas have more vibrant/elaborate assets.

If anything was dropped it was probably old assets like the stuff on route 1 that gets replaced with fancier stuff.

 

[Magcargo]

Looking forward to using the new Necrozma forms, though I feel a bit disappointed that they keep the same typing as Sogaleo and Lunala. Makes them feel more like upgraded versions of Pokemon we already had before. A somewhat similar situation happened in BW2 with the Kyurem forms, but they at least retained their Ice typing to make them feel more unique compared to Reshiram and Zekrom.

Competitively, both Necrozma forms look like they'll be fun to use, moreso the dusk-maned form since it has a more advantages over Solgaleo than the Dawn-winged form does over Lunala. Sunsteel Strike / Moongeist Beam and Photon Geyser mostly remedy Necrozma's barren offensive movepool, and access to moves that Solgaleo and Lunala don't have like Sword Dance, Autotomize, and Stealth Rock go a long way in improving its versatility and utility.

The exclusive Z-Moves for Solgaleo and Lunala don't really excite me, though I do imagine they'll be the go-to item for Swords Dance / Calm mind sets. They only seem like slightly better versions of Corkscrew Crash and Never Ending Nightmare. The animation for Solgaleo's looks funny though.

Rotom-Dex seems like it will be a way better version of the O-Power system in X and Y. Looking forward to using that for grinding / egg-hatching. 2 Z-Moves per battle is likely going to just be for in-game stuff based on the trailer they showed off. Considering that Trainers have way bulkier and stronger Pokemon in Sun and Moon than the player, I think this will help "even" the playing field.

 

[Rapti]

For anyone wondering why on earth does Gamefreak put more emphasis on Z-Moves than on regional variations
never forget
this

therefore this

 

[Usernamesarestupid]

Has anyone else noticed that the Rotom Powers are consumables?

And since we're getting them from the Roto Loto thing, like it might be limited in a way or two like time locked?

 

[mertyville]

I assume Photon Geyser will be a Psychic Type move but I didn't expect both forme of Necrozma to learn it. Makes me wonder if GF intends to do something based on the Form of Necrozma to change the attribute of the attack to physical or special... probably not.

Kinda funny that Lunala gets a signature Z-Move since one of his best sets in Ubers requires Ghostium Z, or should I say required.

 

[Magcargo]

I assume Photon Geyser will be a Psychic Type move but I didn't expect both forme of Necrozma to learn it. Makes me wonder if GF intends to do something based on the Form of Necrozma to change the attribute of the attack to physical or special... probably not.

Kinda funny that Lunala gets a signature Z-Move since one of his best sets in Ubers requires Ghostium Z, or should I say required.

Photon Geyser goes off whichever one of Necrozma's attacking stats is higher.

 

[_Data_Drain_]

Okay, so Serebii confirmed that there's a Mimikyu Z-Move.

https://twitter.com/SerebiiNet/status/919091991081873408

(Don't worry, it's not tied to this toy, the toy's just marketing the Z-Move.)

So... What are your thoughts on this? Mimikyu is actually already pretty good as is. I wonder if this move will actually make it better?

 

[ToadBrigade]

Okay, so Serebii confirmed that there's a Mimikyu Z-Move.

https://twitter.com/SerebiiNet/status/919091991081873408

(Don't worry, it's not tied to this toy, the toy's just marketing the Z-Move.)

So... What are your thoughts on this? Mimikyu is actually already pretty good as is. I wonder if this move will actually make it better?

I'm assuming we know nothing about the Z-Move yet? If it's base move is Shadow Claw, it's reasonable to guess that it'll be a high powered Ghost move with a high crit rate such as Cap Pikachu's Z-move.

 

[_Data_Drain_]

I'm assuming we know nothing about the Z-Move yet? If it's base move is Shadow Claw, it's reasonable to guess that it'll be a high powered Ghost move with a high crit rate such as Cap Pikachu's Z-move.

Yeah, we don't know anything about it. Other than the fact it exists. And well, part of the animation for it too, thanks to the first US/UM trailer.

 

[Siggu]

By the way, I've been thinking about Photon Geyser... how is it going to work as a Z-Move? Which Shattered Psyche would it get? It's a fairly interesting matter.

 

[Rarycaris]

Despite Necrozma being special attack oriented, I’m more worried about Dawn Wings’ movepool than Dusk Mane’s. Dusk Mane will get two reliable STABS, EQ, Stone Edge, Stealth Rock, Autotomize/Rock Polish and Swords Dance, as well as keeping basically every useful move from Solgaleo’s pool except for Flare Blitz. Dawn Wings, on the other hand, will gain Photon Geyser, Stealth Rock and Autotomize, but will in return lose any reliable way of hitting Dark types, especially Yveltal. It loses all of Moonblast, Ice Beam, Thunder(bolt) and Focus Blast — most sets run at least one of those. Adding the extra hard counters added by losing those coverage options would make a double dance set a lot less viable than on Dusk Mane, no matter how impressive its special attack is on paper.

This assumes Necrozma’s standard movepool remains largely unchanged, of course.

 

[Martin890]

Despite Necrozma being special attack oriented, I’m more worried about Dawn Wings’ movepool than Dusk Mane’s. Dusk Mane will get two reliable STABS, EQ, Stone Edge, Stealth Rock, Autotomize/Rock Polish and Swords Dance, as well as keeping basically every useful move from Solgaleo’s pool except for Flare Blitz. Dawn Wings, on the other hand, will gain Photon Geyser, Stealth Rock and Autotomize, but will in return lose any reliable way of hitting Dark types, especially Yveltal. It loses all of Moonblast, Ice Beam, Thunder(bolt) and Focus Blast — most sets run at least one of those. Adding the extra hard counters added by losing those coverage options would make a double dance set a lot less viable than on Dusk Mane, no matter how impressive its special attack is on paper.

This assumes Necrozma’s standard movepool remains largely unchanged, of course.

I just hope they will give Necrozma some good moves in the TM and Tutor department (the fact that it doesn't learn Dazzling Gleam is just ridiculous, or Focus Miss considering how many random things learn it)