Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

Images from the spinoff games and the anime show flames being involved... though it does leave the question of how all those Flying-types in the tutor pool are able to pull it off.
 
And what about Shell Trap and Sunny Day? And what about Scald and Beak Blast?
Sunny day just gets rid of clouds no heat involved :<, Scald might burn your pokemon but try lighting something on with hot water
no idea how Shell Trap and Break Blast even work so I won't comment :X

Images from the spinoff games and the anime show flames being involved... though it does leave the question of how all those Flying-types in the tutor pool are able to pull it off.
friction?
 

TMan87

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Well since it's a flammable powder, it may include oily elements, thus making it heavier and not as easily affected by Tailwind.
As to why it works in rain or in Strong Winds, I have nothing.
Also re: Sunny Day. Maybe it's a chemical mix that has a very low flash point, and the Pokémon using Sunny Day releases a sufficient amount of heat (to drive off the clouds around) for it to reach flash point near the Pokémon, where the air would be hotter?
 

Inspirited

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Volc's dex entries state that it scatters its scales in order to perform Fiery Dance among other fire attacks. There is a chance that these scales may be able to separate charge like volcanic ash when it comes into contact with ice particles and, assuming it doesn't scatter its scales very far, it could produce a charge around its body and not much more area than that (Wild Charge). The whacky charge of plasma (its scales might be able to produce the stuff given that it's the personifacation of the sun) or photovoltaic energy, as Johta pointed out, are also good explanations to me.

There are multiple ways to understand why it can Magnet Rise too with Pikachu315111's stellar magnetic field and Solar Dynamo Theory explanation being the best. Assuming its scales can create charge separation when scattered and that it might be able to produce plasma on its own, it could theoretically create a state where it could hover without its useless-looking wings. This could be why it is airborne to begin with as its wings are rather disproportional and are probably only used as stableizers when you think about it.
 
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Pikachu315111

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Not to mention Mega Charizard X, Beedrill, Dustox, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem, Decidueye, Lunala, Cutiefly family, and Buzzwole.

They really need a non-specific Levitate move; I like the word "Flutter". Though I guess "Float" would also work, especially for the Pokemon who are flying without wings (Jigglypuff family, Clefairy family, Mega Gyarados, Mega Alakazam, Mewtwo, Mew, Celebi, Mega Altaria, Deoxys, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Darkrai, Arceus, Victini, Munna family, Solosis family, Deino family, Meloetta, Flabebe family, Spritzee family, Inkay family, Zygarde, Hoopa, Comfey, Island Guardians, Cosmog, Cosmoem, Necrozma, Nihilego, & Kartana).
 
The whole "has wings / floats but does not actually fly" has been a issue with the entire design of Flying type sadly, and Levitate just further amplified the issue.

Sadly I don't think there's a realistic design way to make the "floating/flying" thing consistent, on top of several Pokemon who would gain stupidly big benefit from it (see Chari-X, Nihilego, Magnezone, Mega-Metagross to mention a couple big offenders)
 

Deleted User 400951

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Not to mention Mega Charizard X, Beedrill, Dustox, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem, Decidueye, Lunala, Cutiefly family, and Buzzwole.

They really need a non-specific Levitate move; I like the word "Flutter". Though I guess "Float" would also work, especially for the Pokemon who are flying without wings (Jigglypuff family, Clefairy family, Mega Gyarados, Mega Alakazam, Mewtwo, Mew, Celebi, Mega Altaria, Deoxys, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Darkrai, Arceus, Victini, Munna family, Solosis family, Deino family, Meloetta, Flabebe family, Spritzee family, Inkay family, Zygarde, Hoopa, Comfey, Island Guardians, Cosmog, Cosmoem, Necrozma, Nihilego, & Kartana).
Of those, Jigglypuff, Clefable, Mewtwo, Deoxys, the Timespace Trio, Darkrai, Arceus, Victini, Deino, Meloetta, Aromatisse, Malamar and Zygarde all spend most of their time on the ground. As for the other mons, I could see a float move work, but tbh I think that some of these are just better with Levitate. Munna, Solosis, Cosmog, Flabebe, Cosmog and Cosmoem should all have Levitate as at least a hidden (with solgaleo/lunala's ha being telepathy like most other legendaries with HAs). The rest IDK about.

Really tho, I think it's that if they're not specified to have flying/levitating as a main aspect of them they don't add levitate/flying.

On a final note, the Clefairy line should learn Magnet Rise, with their meteoric aspects and all.
 

Pikachu315111

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Of those, Jigglypuff, Clefable, Mewtwo, Deoxys, the Timespace Trio, Darkrai, Arceus, Victini, Deino, Meloetta, Aromatisse, Malamar and Zygarde all spend most of their time on the ground. As for the other mons, I could see a float move work, but tbh I think that some of these are just better with Levitate. Munna, Solosis, Cosmog, Flabebe, Cosmog and Cosmoem should all have Levitate as at least a hidden (with solgaleo/lunala's ha being telepathy like most other legendaries with HAs). The rest IDK about.

Really tho, I think it's that if they're not specified to have flying/levitating as a main aspect of them they don't add levitate/flying.

On a final note, the Clefairy line should learn Magnet Rise, with their meteoric aspects and all.
Darkrai is constantly floating. And all the others have shown the Ability that they can float too.


Deino was a mistake, though.
 
Alright folks, are you ready for the most complicated and strange piece of movepool trivia I've ever run across? Get ready for...

The Moveset Lost to Time!

So, as is, The Gen II -> Gen III gap meant several previously possible movesets were impossible for the longest time. Fissure Machamp, Pay Day Mewtwo, Stomp Tauros... the list goes on. With the release of RBYGS on VC, a large majority of movesets that were previously possible back in Gen II are available now. The only exceptions being...

  • Crystal Exclusive Attacks - We'll regain these as soon as crystal is released on VC. Water Gun Phanpy is among the most interesting.
  • Gen 1 & 2 Event Exclusive Moves - A majority of these are lost forever, though it's cool to see a minority of them were eventually annexed onto the Pokemon's permanent movepool

Now, these are pretty expected given we completely lack a third version and those old events are just never getting distributed again. However, there's a third source of unavailable attacks that's actually waaay more complicated.

Gen II Level Up exclusive attack that can only be retaught by move relearner + Gen 1 exclusive attack - This is complicated and a bit hard to explain. There is not a move relearner in GSC, but there is a move relearner in Gen II. In Pokemon Stadium II, if you defeated Gym Leader Castle, you got the opportunity to reteach one of your Pokemon a level up attack. This move relearner is unaccessable for the virtual console releases as they have no release of Pokemon Stadium II to interface with. This generates a possibility for a lost moveset, but it has very strict criteria.

Initially it seems like all we need is a gen II level up attack only accessible by move relearner the Pokemon cannot learn in Gen 7. Sounds simple, right? Well, that's actually a really small list. Very few Pokemon have lost moves over the generations that use to be in their level up movepool. The only things I could remember losing moves immediately when I started looking for some were things like Stomp Tauros and Harden Snorlax. Neither of those attacks are move relearner exclusive either. They do, however, give an idea for a second sort of criteria.

If, say, Tauros learned Beat Up at level 9 in Gen II, then Stomp + Beat Up would be a now impossible combo that was previously possible in Gen II. To get a Tauros with both attacks, you'd need to transfer a Gen I Tauros with Stomp to Gen II, then use the move relearner to teach Beat Up. You obviously couldn't transfer a Beat Up Tauros to Gen I, as the move didn't exist back then.

So is there an actual Pokemon out there with a similar situation? As it turns out, yes! I searched for a while and I found one single Pokemon that had an instance of this. One single Pokemon that was previously 100% possible in Gen II back in 2002 that is impossible in Gen II now.

And that Pokemon is...


Arcanine
- Flame Wheel
- Teleport

How is this impossible now? Growlithe can learn Flame Wheel in any generation starting at Gen II. Arcanine only gets it as a level up attack in Gen II. Now, of course, you can just evolve a Growlithe with Flame Wheel into an Arcanine, but what if you want a Gen I exclusive attack too?

Teleport is a Gen I exclusive attack (TM 30 in that gen) and the only one that Arcanine can learn, but not Growlithe. This means that if you wanted a Teleport + Flame Wheel Arcanine back in 2002, you'd have to evolve your Growlithe, teach it Teleport in Gen I, transfer it to Gen II, and then defeat Gym Leader Castle with Arcanine in your party to reteach it Flame Wheel. That was possible now, but it isn't any more. It's a move set lost to time we won't get back unless we get Pokemon Stadium 2 back in some capacity!


There are probably a few other ways you could theoretically get a lost moveset with the lack of a move relearner. Not only are all the possibilities a little difficult to word in a non-confusing way, but they don't actually exist. Pokemon losing moves from their level up movepool is extremely rare. Of course, this is all barring glitches.

And that's it, the once possible but now impossible moveset not routed in an event or an unreleased game! Hopefully this was more entertaining than mind numbingly boring. I love ridiculous movepool trivia like this and finding something so strange just really made me want to share this.
 
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Codraroll

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Back to the "Wait, why can't it learn this?" category, I came across this one on Bulbapedia just now:

"All Pokémon who can learn TMs can learn Confide except Unown,
Wobbuffet, Wynaut, Kricketot, Burmy, Tynamo, Spewpa, and Guzzlord."

The "can learn TMs" part is really a technicality, as the Pokémon in question can't actually use any TMs other than for moves that exist in their (extremely limited) level-up movepool, amounting to one or two TMs for most Pokémon listed: Unown can only use TM10 Hidden Power, Wobbuffet and Wynaut learn TM20 Safeguard, Kricketot learns Struggle Bug (TM76 in Gen VI), Burmy learns TM10 Hidden Power and TM17 Protect, Tynamo learns TM57 Charge Beam and TM73 Thunder Wave, Spewpa learns TM17 Protect, and Guzzl- ... uh, what?

Indeed, that one really sticks out. Guzzlord has a healthy TM movepool of 36 moves, most of which are outside its level-up movepool. But for some strange reason, no Confide for Guzzlord. Why?
 
Indeed, that one really sticks out. Guzzlord has a healthy TM movepool of 36 moves, most of which are outside its level-up movepool. But for some strange reason, no Confide for Guzzlord. Why?
Gen VII has many inexplicable cases of Pokemon not getting the generic TM moves, such as Magearna not being able to learn Toxic.

(Perhaps Guzzlord cannot tell secrets because it's an alien and spends all the time eating so it does not know any secret?)
 
A wild idea about no Confide would be similar to why that guy can Swallow but not Spit up. I guess it also can't spit up secrets
 

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