Platinum Updates for the Threat Lists.

[Tangerine]

Jumpman pointed out that the threat list was very outdated and that we need to update it to account for Platinum Changes.

See the previous update thread to see how you should approach this.

For your reference the offensive threat list is here, The Defensive threat list is here

The things that need to be updated are the Pokemon and their descriptions to account for Platinum and tier list changes.

Not much more to say!

 

[Tangerine]

Things that Need to be Updated:

Changes to Offensive Threat List:

Trick. Every Pokemon that can learn Trick should be noted since Trick is one potentially damaging move and everyone needs to know that "This Pokemon can Trick you". I think it's important to add.

Rhyperior needs to be added again, considering the Rock Polish sets seem to be all the rage nowadays, considering Bulky Water isn't as prominent anymore.

Jirachi: Psychic/Steel. 100 Base in every stat, boasts Calm Mind, Psychic, Grass Knot, Thunderbolt, Wish, U-Turn, Reflect, Thunder Wave and greatly benefits from "Serene Grace".

Jirachi gained Iron Head, which has a 60% flinch rate with Serene Grace and it's a much better offensive typing than Zen Headbutt. Physical Jirachis are also common meaning that we should also add the Elemental Punches

Salamence: Dragon/Flying. 135 Base Attack, 110 Base Special Attack, 100 Base Speed, "Intimidate", and the ability, with either Choice Band or Choice Specs, to hit EXTREMELY hard off the bat from both ends of the damage spectrum. Besides Dragon Dance, its large movepool includes: Draco Meteor, Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Rock Slide/Stone Edge, Brick Break, Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, Dragon Pulse and Roost.

Outrage needs to be added.

Dragonite: Dragon/Flying. 134 Base Attack, 100 Base Special Attack, 80 Base Speed. Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Fire Punch, Focus Punch, Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, Thunderbolt, Flamethrower/Fire Blast and Ice Beam are among its impressive myriad attacking moves, and Dragonite also has Roost, Heal Bell, Thunder Wave and Safeguard as great support options.

Dragonite "Probably should be removed" mostly because I think if you can cover DD Mence You can cover Dragonite quite well.

Kingdra: Water/Dragon. 95 Base Attack, Defense, Special Attack and Special Defense, 85 Base Speed, 75 Base HP. Sports two fun abilities in "Swift Swim", which doubles its speed in the rain, and "Sniper", which grants its critical hits 3× power instead of 2×. Among the most effective moves for Kingdra are: Rain Dance, Surf, Waterfall, Dragon Pulse, Draco Meteor, Dragon Dance, and Yawn. It's worth noting that with Swift Swim, the single turn it takes to set up Rain Dance will not only double Kingdra's speed but boost both its physical and special Water-type moves one stage, which makes both Life Orb and Mystic Water look great on it.

Outrage should be added

Scizor: Bug/Steel. 130 Base Attack, 100 Base Defense, 65 Base Speed. Makes great use of its new "Technician" ability, which grants a 1.5× boost to all attacks 60 Base Power or less, and can still benefit from "Swarm" which grants the same boost to Bug-type Attack when at 33% or less HP. Scizor's decent movepool includes, X-Scissor, U-Turn, Iron Head, Brick Break, Pursuit, Aerial Ace, Quick Attack, Swords Dance, Agility, Baton Pass, and Roost. It very much welcomes the benefits of Life Orb, Choice Band and Choice Scarf.

Bullet Punch should be added.

Defensive Threat List:

Rotom A: I don't think there's any reason not to add this considering it's a much better Dusknoir. On that note, Dusknoir should likely be removed and replaced for Rotom A.

Poliwrath: I have never ever seen a Poliwrath used in competitive play... yet. I think Machamp can take its place.

Tangrowth - 100/125/50
Grass. A very reliable Earthquake resistance, with a highly diverse movepool that includes Leech Seed, Knock Off, Sleep Powder, Reflect and Stun Spore on the supportive side. Can use Sunny Day/SolarBeam effectively, or use another Grass attack like Energy Ball, Power Whip or Grass Knot, can be accompanied by Earthquake.

Lack of reliable recovery means that "if you can get past Celebi you can probably get past Tangrowth"

Steelix - 75/200/65
Steel/Ground. A typing that laughs at many, many opposing types, and with Defense like that it can shrug off Earthquakes if it has to from say, Metagross. It can set up Stealth Rock and phaze with Roar, but beyond that it usually doesn't hurt anything with some kind of defense. Earthquake and Gyro Ball are used to inflict damage against enemies weak to it.

Steelix is also something I don't really find the point of keeping, I think if you can get past Metagross and friends you should be able to deal with Steelix comfortably.

 

[kd24]

I think Swampert should be added to offensive threat list, Curse / Rest / Sleep Talk / Waterfall is very dangerous as well as Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Ice Punch, Earthquake, Earth Power, Stone Edge, Hammer Arm, and other such attacks make Swampert a threatening Pokemon.

 

[Great Sage]

I agree with removing Tangrowth, Steelix, and Poliwrath from the defensive threats list. At 72, 94, and 128 on the OU ladder's usage, respectively, they aren't particularly things you need to "look out" for when building a team.

 

[Jibaku]

Other things that would be nice if added:

Heat Wave on Zapdos
Remove the illegality of Thunderpunch + Poison Heal on Breloom
Aqua Tail on Tyranitar (which nicely hits Hippo and Rhy)
Ice Punch on Lucario
Earth Power on Celebi
SuperPower on Mamoswine ?

 

[Colonel M]

Rock Polish Rhyperior isn't ALL the rage. >_>;

| Rhyperior  | Move         | Earthquake       |    98.1 |
| Rhyperior  | Move         | Stone Edge       |    79.3 |
| Rhyperior  | Move         | Megahorn         |    55.6 |
| Rhyperior  | Move         | Substitute       |    30.8 |
| Rhyperior  | Move         | Swords Dance     |    24.0 |
| Rhyperior  | Move         | Rock Polish      |    15.9 |

And:

42. RHYPERIOR (Usages: 19277)
 
Typical moveset:
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Megahorn
- Substitute
 
* Swords Dance and Rock Polish can replace any of the four moves listed.

But anyway, more things to add:

- Superpower on Scizor, perhaps removal of Choice Scarf.
- I'm not sure about removing Dragonite personally. From what I recall it can still be a good Mixed Sweeper with Superpower.
- I'm also unsure about the removal of Dusknoir because it is still OU.
- Starmie needs more in-depth on how it is a threat. It can perfectly use Expert Belt or Life Orb with little problems, and it does do a lot of damage to Pokemon that are weak to its attacks.
- DX-S needs to be removed. Probably same with Roserade.
- Flygon and Empoleon should be added on the offensive threat list, I guess.
- Magnezone should probably be an offensive threat, not a defensive threat.
- Ditch Weezing, Umbreon possibly, Garchomp, and possibly many others.

My only qualms thus far. On that note, I think we should avoid removing anything that is technically "OU" now despite it being outclassed.

 

[Imran]

Venom posted what was originally here in the "regariding the rules of the Team Rate forum." thread. Thanks!

Regarding the Overused mons that you have mentioned:

I agree with almost everything that you have said. Poliwrath needs to go, as do any other mons who end up being involved in the Underused tier (which covers Tangrowth and Steelix neatly.) This may end up covering Gallade, Roserade, Slowbro, Weezing, Umbreon, Porygon 2, Crobat, Shuckle, Miltank, Ludicolo, Hariyama, Cradily, Milotic, Walrein, the Regi's, Drapion, Uxie, Mesprit, and Shaymin. I feel these could be incorporated into a threat list "for their tier" that I made mention of in the RMT rules thread.

I feel Dragonite should be made mention of, Superpower is "enough" to differentiate it from Salamence + it's additional bulk (especially on the special side), but maybe we should mention that it is unlikely to be seen due to Salamence, and also if it is to be seen, what users that choose it over Salamence could be trying to achieve.

 

[Lee]

BUMP

KD24 and I are working on getting this up and running atm. Please continue posting if you'd like to add anything else.

 

[SoT]

Snorlax, with CB now Pursuit + Elemental punches are allowed. That's a good Offensive threat now. As well as Defensive, RestTalk with Pursuit is viable for hitting ghosts.

Flygon, now that chomp is gone. And maybe Crobat????? I guess Nasty Plost, Brave Bird, U-Turn, Roost, Hypnosis, Air Slash, Heat Wave etc. are all effective. Coming of that base speed as well, just a thought though.

 

[Lee]

Okay, here's the initial draft of the offensive threat list, updated to Platinum standards.

Note that these were written by Jumpman16. I've merely added things and removed bits here and there. Under each Pokemon, I'll list the things I changed just to make it a little easier to read.

Tyranitar: Rock/Dark. Choice Banded Crunch, Stone Edge/Rock Slide, Pursuit, Earthquake and Aqua Tail from 134 Base Attack. Tyranitar can also boast Dragon Dance or 101 HP Substitutes and utilize Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, and Flamethrower/Fire Blast with 95 Base Special Attack and great all around defenses. Its "Sand Stream" also limits the durability of non-Rock, -Steel and -Ground Types, while also boosting by 1.5× the Special Defense of itself and all other Rock type pokémon.

- Added Aqua Tail.

Gyarados: Water/Flying. 125 Base Attack, 100 Base Special Defense, 95 Base HP, Dragon Dance, "Intimidate", fantastic typing, and physical STAB in Waterfall and Bounce to replace its lost physical Hidden Power Flying from Advance. Also boasts Stone Edge, Earthquake, Ice Fang and, possibly its most threatening move, Taunt, which now lasts 3-5 turns instead of always two.

- Added Bounce.

Infernape: Fire/Fighting. Nasty Plot, Swords Dance, 108 Base Speed, 104 Base Attack and Special Attack, and a very, very diverse movepool, including, of most importance: Close Combat, Flamethrower, Hidden Power Ice, Grass Knot, Flare Blitz, Thunderpunch and Stone Edge.

- No changes.

Azelf: Psychic. 115 Base Speed, 125 Base Special Attack and Attack, Nasty Plot, "Levitate", Psychic, Flamethrower, Grass Knot, Thunderbolt, U-turn, Trick and Explosion.

- Added Trick.
- Decided against adding Zen Headbutt and elemental punches.

Electivire: Electric. 123 Base Attack, a unique Ability in "Motor Drive" that raises its speed by 1.5× whenever an electric attack is used on it, 95 Base Speed, and the ability, with a Thunderpunch/Cross Chop/Earthquake/Ice Punch moveset, to score a Super Effective Hit on 13 of the 17 pokémon types (all but Psychic, Ghost, Bug and Fighting types). Can also take advantage of his 95 Base Special Attack with attacks such as Thunderbolt, Flamethrower and Hidden Power Ice or Grass.

- Added last sentence about special attacks.

Heracross: Bug/Fighting. 125 Base Attack, an Ability in "Guts" that raises its attack by 1.5× when afflicted with a status condition (PAR, BRN, PSN, SLP), 85 base Speed, 95 base Special Defense, and a great physical movepool, including, of most importance: Close Combat, Megahorn, Stone Edge/Rock Slide, Pursuit, Swords Dance, Night Slash, Facade, Sleep Talk, Endure and Reversal. Can also utilize Choice Scarf to boost its average speed to surprise enemies.

- Added Sleep Talk and Facade
- Added SLP to the status condition section

Salamence: Dragon/Flying. 135 Base Attack, 110 Base Special Attack, 100 Base Speed, "Intimidate", and the ability, with either Choice Band or Choice Specs, to hit EXTREMELY hard off the bat from both ends of the damage spectrum. Besides Dragon Dance, its large movepool includes: Draco Meteor, Outrage, Earthquake, Rock Slide/Stone Edge, Brick Break, Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, Aqua Tail, Dragon Pulse and Roost.

- Added Outrage and Aqua Tail

Togekiss: Normal/Flying. 120 Base Special Attack, 115 Base Special Defense, 80 Base Speed, and an Ability in "Serene Grace" that doubles the extra effects of moves that have them. Its movepool includes: Nasty Plot, Air Slash (60% flinch with "Serene Grace"), Aura Sphere, Wish/Softboiled/Roost, Thunder Wave (or Body Slam to paralyse foes immune to Thunder Wave), Baton Pass, Tri Attack (illegal with Nasty Plot), Trick and Grass Knot. Can also utilise a Choice Scarf set to further abuse Air Slash's flinch rate.

- Added Trick, Body Slam
- Added sentence about Choice Scarf.

Gengar: Ghost/Poison. 130 base Special Attack, 110 Base Speed and "Levitate". Its fantastic movepool includes: Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Hypnosis, Trick, Focus Blast, Will-o-wisp, Energy Ball and Destiny Bond. Poor 65 Base Attack but can abuse the high base powers of Focus Punch and Explosion to hit special walls.

- Removed Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb.
- Added Energy Ball.
- Added sentence about physical attacks.

Lucario: Fighting/Steel: 110 Base Attack, 115 Base Special Attack, 90 base speed. Its obscene movepool includes: Close Combat, Swords Dance, Crunch, Ice Punch, Stone Edge, Endure, Reversal, ExtremeSpeed, Aura Sphere, Vacuum Wave, Bullet Punch, Agility, Shadow Ball, Dark Pulse, Hidden Power Ice and Dragon Pulse.

- Removed Calm Mind and Bulk Up
- Added HP Ice, Ice Punch, Vacuum Wave and Stone Edge

Starmie: Water/Psychic. 115 Base Speed, 100 Base Special Attack and "Natural Cure". Can work very well with or without Choice Specs thanks to a great movepool that includes: Surf, Psychic, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Grass Knot, Recover, Rapid Spin and Trick. Its adequate, somewhat-overlooked 85 base Defense and Special Defense make it a surprisingly durable threat with Recover.

- Added Trick.

Weavile: Dark/Ice. 120 Base Attack, 125 Base Speed, Swords Dance, Night Slash, Ice Punch, Brick Break and a STABbed Pursuit and Ice Shard make this a threat with or without Choice Band.

- No changes.

Dugtrio: Ground. 120 Base Speed, 80 Base Attack. Only used for its "Arena Trap" trait, which prevents all pokémon that aren't Flying types or that don't have the Levitate ability from switching, making Dugtrio's Choice Banded or Life Orbed Earthquake, Aerial Ace, Night Slash or Sucker Punch quick and efficient. Can even run Choice Scarf to revenge kill enemy Choice Scarfers. A "threat" because it can stop other threats like Tyranitar, Infernape and Raikou from running rampant, and makes you think twice about building a team loaded with pokémon Dugtrio can kill off easily.

- Added sentence about Choice Scarf.
- Fixed link to analysis.

Machamp: Fighting. 130 Base Attack, 90 Base HP, 80 Base Defense, 85 Base Special Defense. Already a viable threat with "Guts", Machamp's "No Guard" gives all of its attacks — and its opponents' — 100% accuracy, which is great news for its Dynamicpunch which causes all sorts of problems for potential counters with it's 100% confusion rate. Cross Chop and Stone Edge also benefit. Machamp also has Close Combat, Thunderpunch, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Payback, Bullet Punch and Bulk Up at its disposal.

- Added Payback.
- Removed Mega Kick.

Snorlax: Normal. 160 Base HP, 110 Base Attack and Special Defense, 65 Base Defense. With Curse, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Thunderpunch, Pursuit, Return/Frustration/Body Slam, Earthquake, Fire Blast, Selfdestruct and Crunch, Snorlax can contend with Skarmory a little better in this generation. Its "Thick Fat" Ability still halves the damage from Fire and Ice attack, and Rest can annoy you with or without Sleep Talk if you're not prepared.

- Added Pursuit.

Porygon-Z: Normal. 135 Base Special Attack, 90 Base Speed, two unique Abilities in "Adaptability" that makes its Same Type Attack Bonus 2× instead of 1.5× and "Download" which grants Porygon-Z +1 Special Attack if the opponent's Defense is higher than his Special Defense. Nasty Plot, Tri Attack, Shadow Ball, Recover, Agility, Hidden Power Fighting for Rock and Steel types and the ability to use Trick to screw over special walls.

- Added explanation for Download.
- Removed mention of OHKOing Bliss with NP LO Hyper Beam since Blissey runs SpD now.
- Added Trick.

Zapdos: Electric/Flying. 125 Base Special Attack, 100 base Speed, 90 Base HP, Attack and Special Defense, 85 Base Defense. With Thunderbolt, Roost, Discharge, U-turn, Heat Wave, Hidden Power Ice or Grass, Substitute, Agility, and Baton Pass, Zapdos can be quite the nuisance, not to mention how well it can use Rest/Sleep Talk with its "Pressure" Ability.

- Added Heat Wave.

Suicune: Water. 100 Base HP, 90 Base Special Attack, 115 Base Defense and Special Defense, 85 Base Speed. Calm Mind, Surf, Ice Beam, Roar, Rest and Sleep Talk with its "Pressure" Ability make this virtually unchanged threat from Advance just as hard to beat in DP if you're not ready. Suicune's natural bulk also allows him to use a Life Orb and invest heavily in his Special Attack and Speed to run a more offensive set than what was seen in ADV.

- Added bit about LO set after discussing in irc, not 100% on this one though so speak up.

Breloom: Grass/Fighting. 130 Base Attack, 70 Base Speed. Spore is the best move in the game hands down, and "Poison Heal", which grants Breloom 12.5% HP Recovery (to Leftovers' 6.25%) when Poisoned (easy to accomplish with Toxic Orb), is arguably a top-five Ability when you consider it will grant Breloom immunity to other status as well. To complement these unique tools, Breloom can utilize Focus Punch, Seed Bomb, Mach Punch, Substitute, ThunderPunch, Superpower, Sky Uppercut, Stone Edge and Leech Seed.

- Removed bit about illegality with Thunderpunch/Poison Heal
- Added Superpower

Ninjask: Bug/Flying. 90 Base Attack, 160 Base Speed, an Ability in "Speed Boost" that raises its speed by one stage every turn. Among its main options: Substitute, Swords Dance, Baton Pass, Aerial Ace, X-Scissor, U-Turn and Protect. Mainly a threat on full-fledged Baton Pass teams that utilize Ingrain to keep both it and stat-ups from getting Whirlwinded away, but Ninjask can probably beat you in the right hands anyway if you don't have Haze, Taunt, Roar or Whirlwind handy.

- No changes.

Metagross: Steel/Psychic. 135 Base Attack, 130 Base Defense, 80 Base HP, 70 Base Speed, 95 Base Special Attack, 90 Base Special Defense. Doesn't need a Choice Band to wreak havoc with moves like Meteor Mash, ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Earthquake, Zen Headbutt, Agility/Rock Polish, Trick, Explosion, Grass Knot and Pursuit. Its "Clear Body" prevents its stats from being lowered, most notably by Intimidate.

- Added bit about his SpA
- Added Grass Knot
- Brought more attention to Intimidate immunity

Heatran: Steel/Fire. 130 Base Special Attack, 106 Base Defense and Special Defense, 77 Base Speed, 90 Base Attack. Can utilize its "Flash Fire" ability to boost its Overheat, Fire Blast and Flamethrower. Also boasts: Earth Power, Dragon Pulse, Metal Sound, Lava Plume and Explosion. Unique typing grants him many oppurtunities to switch in making him a perfect candidate for either Choice Specs or Choice Scarf.

- Added bit about typing in the last sentence

Celebi: Psychic/Grass. 100 Base in every stat, boasts Calm Mind, Swords Dance, Recover, Baton Pass, Psychic, Energy Ball/Grass Knot, Leaf Storm, Earth Power, Seed Bomb, Zen Heabutt, U-Turn, Heal Bell, Leech Seed, Trick, Perish Song and "Natural Cure".

- Added Earth Power, Seed Bomb, Zen Headbutt and Trick
- Removed Giga Drain and Shadow Ball

Jirachi: Psychic/Steel. 100 Base in every stat, boasts Calm Mind, Psychic, Grass Knot, Thunderbolt, Wish, U-Turn, Reflect, Thunder Wave, Iron Head, Body Slam, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Thunderpunch, Trick, Zen Headbutt and greatly benefits from "Serene Grace".

- Added Iron Head, Body Slam, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Thunderpunch, Trick and Zen Headbutt

Mamoswine: Ice/Ground. 130 Base Attack, 80 Base Speed, 70 Base Special Attack. Boasts one of the strongest STAB Earthquakes in the game, which, coupled with its STAB Ice Shard and Avalance, grant it great physical STAB coverage. Stone Edge, Ice Fang, Curse, Superpower and Blizzard round out the main options of a monster that works very well with a Choice Band.

- Added Superpower

Yanmega: Bug/Flying. 116 Base Special Attack, 95 Base Speed, 86 Base HP and Defense. Has two very useful abilities in "Tinted Lens", which doubles the power of NVE (not very effective) hits, and "Speed Boost". Yanmega can use Air Slash, Bug Buzz, Hypnosis, Protect, and Choice Specs, Choice Scarf or Focus Sash very well.

- Fixed link to analysis.

Kingdra: Water/Dragon. 95 Base Attack, Defense, Special Attack and Special Defense, 85 Base Speed, 75 Base HP. Sports two fun abilities in "Swift Swim", which doubles its speed in the rain, and "Sniper", which grants its critical hits 3× power instead of 2×. Among the most effective moves for Kingdra are: Rain Dance, Surf, Waterfall, Dragon Pulse, Draco Meteor, Dragon Dance, Outrage, Substitute and Yawn. It's worth noting that with Swift Swim, the single turn it takes to set up Rain Dance will not only double Kingdra's speed but boost both its physical and special Water-type moves one stage, which makes both Life Orb and Mystic Water look great on it.

- Added Outrage and Substitute.

Roserade: Grass/Poison. 125 Base Special Attack, 95 Base Speed, 105 Base Special Defense. Has Leaf Storm, Sludge Bomb, Sleep Powder, Weather Ball, Leech Seed, Spikes (illegal with Sleep Powder), and Toxic Spikes. Further, the constant switching associated with using a rather handy Choice Scarf or Choice Specs makes "Natural Cure" a great ability on Roserade.

- No changes.

Scizor: Bug/Steel. 130 Base Attack, 100 Base Defense, 65 Base Speed. Makes great use of its new "Technician" ability, which grants a 1.5× boost to all attacks 60 Base Power or less most notably to Bullet Punch, and can still benefit from "Swarm" which grants the same boost to Bug-type Attack when at 33% or less HP. Scizor's decent movepool includes, X-Scissor, U-Turn, Superpower, Brick Break, Pursuit, Quick Attack, Swords Dance, Agility, Baton Pass, Reversal and Roost. It very much welcomes the benefits of Life Orb and Choice Band.

- Added Bullet Punch and Superpower
- Removed Choice Scarf mention
- Considering removing mention of Swarm and Iron Head.

------------

The following were written by me from scratch so feel free to rip them apart.

Gliscor: Ground/Flying. 95 Base Attack, 125 Base Defense, 95 Base Speed. Can use Hyper Cutter to block Intimidate or Sand Veil to grab an Evasion boost if Sandstorm is present. Great resistances and Defense allow Gliscor to make good use of Earthquake, Swords Dance, Ice Fang, Stone Edge, U-Turn, Roost, Rock Polish, Taunt and Baton Pass.

Empoleon: Water/Steel. 86 Base Attack, 88 Base Defense, 111 Base Special Attack, 101 Base Special Defense, 60 Base Speed. Empoleons plethora of resistances (12 to be exact) allow it to switch in frequently and use Surf, Ice Beam, Grass Knot, Agility, Swords Dance, Waterfall, Aqua Jet and Drill Peck. Easily the best abuser of Torrent thanks to his Sandstorm immunity and resistance to popular priority moves.

Magnezone: Electric/Steel. 115 Base Defense, 130 Base Special Attack, 90 Base Special Defense, 60 Base Speed. Primarily used for its "Magnet Pull" ability which allows it to prevent opposing Steel-types from switching out of battle. Boasts the strongest STAB Thunderbolt in the game and often compliments it with Hidden Power Ice. Other common moves include Substitute, Magnet Rise, Explosion, Thunder Wave and Metal Sound.

Flygon: Ground/Dragon. 100 Base Attack, 80 Base Defense, Special Attack and Special Defense, 100 Base Speed. "Levitate," resistance to Stealth Rock and immunity to Sandstorm and Electric attacks offer plenty of oppurtunities for Flygon to switch in and use Earthquake, Outrage, U-Turn Stone Edge, Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, Fire Punch and Roost. Can also utilise Choice Band or Choice Scarf to great effect.

Rhyperior: Ground/Rock. 115 Base HP, 140 Base Attack, 130 Base Defense and a Rock typing that grants him a 1.5x boost to his Special Defense when in a Sandstorm. "Solid Rock" reduces the damage taken by super-effective attacks by 1/4. STAB Earthquake and Stone Edge are the mainstay attacks of any offensive Rhyperior with Megahorn, Aqua Tail, Fire Punch, Swords Dance and Rock Polish available to compliment them.

Rotom-A: Electric/Ghost. 50 Base HP, 107 Base Defense and Special Defense, 105 Base Special Attack. Rotom-As fabulous typing combined with "Levitate" makes it pretty tough to kill. Works very well with or without Choice Specs or Choice Scarf and has an excellent movepool that includes Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, Will-o-Wisp, Thunder Wave, Charge Beam and Trick. Depending on which variant of Rotom-A is used it also has access to one of Air Slash, Blizzard, Hydro Pump, Leaf Storm or Overheat.

(Rotom-A link is not clickable atm but I'll update it as soon as the analysis is up)

So the current threat list is -

Tyranitar
Gyarados
Infernape
Azelf
Electivire
Heracross
Salamence
Togekiss
Gengar
Lucario
Starmie
Weavile
Dugtrio
Machamp
Snorlax
Porygon-Z
Zapdos
Suicune
Breloom
Ninjask
Metagross
Heatran
Celebi
Jirachi
Mamoswine
Yanmega
Gliscor
Empoleon
Magnezone
Flygon
Rhyperior
Rotom-A

Note that Dragonite and Gallade have been removed completely.

If you feel strongly that something needs to be added (I've heard talk of Crobat, Raikou, Staraptor and Gallade's removal was controversial to begin with) then please speak up!

Likewise if you'd like to see something removed, now's your chance.

 

[Caelum]

Togekiss: It appears a decent number of people have taken a liking to a Mixed Set (see analysis). Here are some stats

Togekiss | Ability | Hustle | 11.2
| Togekiss | Move | Extremespeed | 10.0

It messes up it's counter so it might be nice to give a mention. Possibly Encore as well since that can screw you up.

Lucario: Technicality but in-game it's ExtremeSpeed not Extremespeed. Mine as well change it .-. Also, the lack of Vacuum Wave should probably be changed (I mean Focus Blast is there and nobody uses that lol). BTW, you also dropped Bulk Up and forgot to mention it.

Machamp: Confusion rate from DynamicPunch should be mentioned since even your "counters" (unless you use like Slowbro) can be screwed up by it.

Scizor: Nobody uses Aerial Ace Scizor. Just remove that entirely.

Rotom-A: Each analysis for the formes has a seperate link so I'm not sure how the link is going to work but whatever.

I'd consider adding Jolteon to the offensive list since Choice Specs + it's Speed can be quite threatening.

Other than that, this looked good to me Lee.

I started on the defensive list so I'll probably post that later unless someone else started it. (Probably sometime later today - few hours since i'm working on something else also).

 

[Imran]

I would consider expanding on Celebi a bit, the most offensive sets seen pre-plat were bulky Calm Minders. Celebi now can potentially utilise fast, Band sets are with that people have also started to consider offensive Special sets. It is occasionally seen using Life Orb and Choice Scarf. I guess I'd like to see a greater distinction between them. The same goes for Jirachi, physical sets are a lot more viable, and can be run more offensivly.

I would agree with removing Swarm and Iron Head from Scizor. Empoleons most popular sets are generally Sub + Boost, so that would be worth mentioning, unless you think mentioning Torrent already is enough. Magnezone could do with a mention of Hidden Power Fire, its the Hidden Power I generally see in RMTs.

 

[Stellar]

Maybe mention Trick under Gengar?

 

[Caelum]

def list.

Removing (opinions?):

Poliwrath: It's never really used in OU (#128 on the standard ladder in December behind Cloyster and just barely beating Shedinja). Average stats / move pool weaken the use of its good typing.

Tangrowth: Aside from Sleep Power, if you can beat Celebi; you can almost always beat Tangrowth.

Steelix: I don't feel this is much of a physical defensive threat. It's not used very much in OU (#94 on the standard ladder, just below Staraptor and just above Magmortar) and it doesn't have phenomenal typing to take physical Attacks (weakness to Fighting / Ground hurt it in OU), no recovery move, and only real support options are Stealth Rock & Roar. Usually, if you can beat Skarmory you can almost always beat Steelix.

Regice: It was #122 on the standard ladder in Decemeber (below even Slowking and getting slightly more use than Glaceon). It's weakness to Stealth Rock means it can't switch in repeatedly, no reliable recovery, bad Special Defensive typing. Even it's Explosion is fairly harmless. If you can dispose of Blissey, you can easily dispose of Regice.

Garchomp: It's uber now :o

Considering Adding (i.e. give me your opinions):

Machamp: Bulky utility counter, Rest-Talk, DynamicPunch confusion's a bitch etc.

Salamence: Gyarados is there so I was considering adding this. The analysis pages now have bulky sets for special & physical, Intimidate, Roost, good-typing / offenses etc.

Added: Rotom-A, obviously.

Also, these don't link to the analysis (and the current ones don't); I'll chance it later.

Name - Base HP/Base Def/Base SpDef
Typing. Notable characteristics and strategic summary

Tentacruel - 80/65/120
Water/Poison. Tentacruel is an effective user of Toxic Spikes that can switch into most Water-type and set them up. It also can utilize both Rapid Spin and Knock Off. Its oft-overlooked 100 Base Speed also helps it to move faster than many other defensive threats.

- Rapid Spin + Knock Off are legal now.

Slowbro - 95/110/80
Water/Psychic. A premiere "Bulky Water" with the ability to take physical hits and shrug them off with Slack Off. It can paralyze with Thunder Wave, scare off Dragons with Ice Beam and sometimes Gyarados with Hidden Power Electric. Also has access to Fire Blast and Flamethrower. Occasionally sets up Calm Mind or Trick Room.

- Added Flamethrower / Fire Blast for bulkier Scizor, Metagross, SpD Celebi etc.

Magnezone - 70/115/90
Steel/Electric. Traps every Steel Pokemon foolish enough to leave the house without a Shed Shell, and provides a nice list of resistances including the famed Thunderbolt/Ice Beam combo. Magnet Rise makes it very tough to take down if Earthquake is relied on. Can set up Reflect/Light Screen and paralyze with Thunder Wave.

- No change.

Weezing - 65/120/70
Poison. Highly useful anti-physical attacker due to great Defense, Will-o-Wisp to halve attack and cause residual damage and Haze to erase stat boosts. Often hailed as one of the very few real Heracross counters due to resistance to Megahorn and Close Combat while not being weak to any of Heracross' other moves. Immune to Earthquake due to Levitate ability. Can go toe to toe with Gyarados with Thunderbolt and other top physical threats.

- Remove Garchomp / Sand Veil mention.

Rhyperior - 115/130/55
Rock/Ground. A defensive powerhouse that earns most credit with its trait, Solid Rock, which reduces super-effective damage by 25%. Combined with immense HP and Defense as well as the 50% Special Defense boost from Sand Stream, it shrugs off almost anything not Water or Grass. Can set up Stealth Rock, pHaze with Roar, or absolutely wreck with good offensive capabilities.

- no change.

Blissey - 255/10/135
Normal. The single best Special wall in the game, as the stats suggest. Softboiled or Wish can get it to recover that immense HP once in a while, Natural Cure makes sure status effects are no problem. Heals the team with Aromatherapy, can use Toxic or Thunder Wave for status and attack with high diversity, optionally boosted by Calm Mind, or bounce back a huge hit with Counte

- no change. I removed Sing because it's almost never used and the accuracy is very off-putting but if people really want it back I'm not opposed.

Starmie - 60/85/85
Water/Psychic. Its defensive stats may look a little lackluster, but it's the high speed Recover and Rapid Spin that makes Starmie a true asset to the team. Can take on Gyarados rather reliably with Thunderbolt due to Waterfall resistance and has access to Ice Beam for additional coverage. Thunder Wave, Reflect and Light Screen are other supportive options.

- Removed Garchomp and Salamence reference (it's not very good at countering Salamence now-a-days).

Scizor - 70/100/80
Bug/Steel. Excellent typing that allows it the luxury of having only one weakness. Can scout with U-Turn, kill something weak that switches with Pursuit or something that doesn't with Quick Attack and Bullet Punch helped by Technician. Can Baton Pass Iron Defense, Swords Dance, Substitute and/or Agility or use them himself with his good 130 Attack. May recover HP with Roost without it affecting his typing.

- Added Bullet Punch. Correcting in-game spelling of U-turn.

Gyarados - 95/79/100
Water/Flying. Intimidate and resistance to Megahorn and Fighting moves in addition to an Earthquake immunity makes this a good switch-in on many threatening physical attackers such as Salamence, Infernape, Heracross and even other Gyarados. You need to watch out for Stone Edge/Thunderpunch when appropiate and be sure to Spin away Stealth Rock when relying on Gyarados as a wall. Can also use Rest-Talk effectively for walling. With its offensive diversity in Ice Fang, Earthquake, Waterfall, Avalanche and Stone Edge (which it needs to counter these mentioned Pokemon appropriately) Gyarados can also easily set up Dragon Dances and sweep, Taunting status and Haze/Roar/Whirlwind when needed.

- Added Avalanche & Rest-Talk , removed Chomp.

Vaporeon - 130/60/95
Water. Stands out as a bulky Water thanks to Water Absorb and Wish. Can Baton Pass extremely high HP Substitutes or Acid Armors, and uses Wish to heal itself and the team. Protect is often used in tandem with Wish because it is tough to heal yourself on Wish alone

- no change.

Umbreon - 95/110/130
Dark. Umbreon posesses one of the most dangerous combo's in the Pokemon world in Mean Look, Baton Pass and Taunt, and has the defenses to actually trap something, Taunt phazing attempts and Baton Pass out to a more desirable counter which can proceed to set-up and/or destroy. Can also Baton Pass Curse and can recovery from and pass Wishes. STAB Pursuit can hurt frail Ghosts such as Gengar, but other than that Umbreon is restricted to indirect offense with Yawn, Toxic or Charm.

- Added CursePass & Wish

Porygon2 - 85/90/95
Normal. The new D/P Trace allows Porygon2 to effectively backfire Gyarados/Salamence Intimidates. Coupled with Recover and its decent defensive stats and the ability to use both Thunderbolt and Ice Beam from high Special Attack, it makes a great counter to them, especially Gyarados. Thunder Wave/Toxic is often used to inflict status.

- no change

Snorlax - 160/65/110
Normal. While not as good at Special walling as Blissey due to lack of Natural Cure, Softboiled and overkill HP/Special Defense, Snorlax is still able to laugh at many Special Attacks and can actually pack a punch with its huge physical movepool, which contains Body Slam, Return, Earthquake, Crunch, Superpower, Fire Punch and Selfdestruct. As well as Fire Blast for Steels. Curse, Rest and Sleep Talk variations can make it hard to take out quickly.

- updated move-pool info, removed things like Double-Edge & Focus Punch which aren't really used & added Return & Superpower.

Zapdos - 90/85/100
Electric/Flying. Stripped off its former glory as a 100% Gyarados counter due to Stone Edge, the physical Waterfall and the addition of Stealth Rock, but nonetheless a very effective counter to Metagross as long as it doesn't run into Rock Slides. Roost keeps it alive, and Zapdos can get in a Substitute or Agility to Baton Pass around rather easily. Can also use Light Screen to take special hits better. Zapdos is also the only decent counter to Togekiss and the threat it poses behind Nasty Plot and Air Slash/Aura Sphere.

- added Light Screen.

Togekiss - 85/95/115
Normal/Flying. A maniac supporter in itself that may very well sweep your team with a bit of luck due to Serene Grace, paralyzing possibilities with Thunder Wave/Body Slam and the 60% flinch Air Slash. Its Stealth Rock weakness is amended with Wish, Roost or Softboiled to recover HP. Can set up Nasty Plot OR use Tri Attack as well. Encore can also be an annoyance against slower Pokemon.

- added Encore because Encore is a broken move.

Crobat - 85/80/80
Poison/Flying. Crobat is able to outspeed almost everything not carrying a Choice Scarf, and that alone helps him to contribute. When you factor in pretty much the fastest Hypnosis in the game (again, barring Choice Scarfers), Roost, U-turn and Taunt as treasured utility moves, there seems to be no reason left anymore not to try out Crobat. And then you factor in that the bat resists Fighting, Bug and Grass 4x while being immune to Ground, so you realize that he can serve as a very capable counter to threats such as Breloom and Heracross. Make sure to U-turn him out of harm's way and not to Roost on an Earthquake, and he will be quite fine.

- no change

Shuckle - 20/230/230
Rock/Bug. With 10 in both attacking stats, this could easily be called the most lopsided Pokemon out there. Do not be fooled by his horrid 20 HP, as he is arguably the best mixed wall out there, as long as you invest significantly in HP and Def and let the sand rage through the arena. Shuckle's main utility comes from Stealth Rock, Toxic, Knock Off and Encore, all of which it can do very effectively. Encore in particular is an important trump card of his, as it stops him from being set-up or Sleep Talk bait. Other uses include Wrap and Safeguard for a semi-Wobbuffet effect.

- no change

Forretress - 75/140/60
Bug/Steel. Like Scizor it is only weak to Fire and has a gazillion resistances. Forretress can set up Stealth Rock, Spikes or even Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin away opposing Spikes and Explode when done. It has little to no offensive capabilities besides that and Gyro Ball, but it can Counter effectively and support with Reflect/Light Screen. Forretress is also capable of countering Gyarados in a pinch with Zap Cannon.

- no change

Gliscor - 75/125/75
Ground/Flying. The best, if not the only, Heracross counter in the game, and generally a great physical wall with two immunities to very common attacking types (Ground and Electric), it resists Bug and Fighting while taking neutral damage from Rock and can recover HP with Roost. Stealth Rock and Knock Off are there for utility, it can Baton Pass Rock Polish, Substitute and Swords Dance nicely or use these for itself with STAB Earthquake and Aerial Ace, complimented by the elemental fangs. And thanks to Sand Veil, Gliscor also enjoys benefiting from the ever-present Sand Stream, let alone not taking any damage in a sandstorm.

- small grammar nitpick

Skarmory - 65/140/70
Steel/Flying. Ever since GSC it has been the premiere physical wall of choice and little has changed. Immune to Earthquake and resistant to about everything else, posesses the unique ability to Spike AND phaze, making it difficult to get past. Uses Roost to restore HP and often holds Shed Shell to prevent it from being trapped by Magnezone. Alternatively it can set up Stealth Rock.

- no change

Donphan - 90/120/60
Ground. Anything you would expect from a utility-based Ground-type. It can set up Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin, and Knock Off effectively and quickly ward off Dragons with Ice Shard if need be. Its 120 attack Earthquake usually is not going to sweep teams, but does a nice job on Tyranitar, who it can counter nicely.

- No change. Considered dropping since if you can beat Hippowdon you can beat Donphan but left it because of Rapid Spin / Knock Off / Ice Shard.

Miltank - 95/105/70
Normal. Miltank can be compared to Blissey, except it is more balanced and takes physical hits instead. It does this quite nicely, can paralyze with Body Slam/Thunder Wave, totes Heal Bell and Curse, and shrug off sustained damage with Milk Drink. Usually not a good attacking threat due to an average-at-best 80 Attack, but don't entirely write it off as an offenseless Pokemon because it gets Earthquake and Hammer Arm to toy with.

- nobody really uses Gyro Ball Miltank, removed that.

Suicune - 100/115/115
Water. Takes most neutral hits as if it is nothing, though it can't switch in on extreme powerhouses like Choice Band Heracross or Tyranitar, or Choice Specs Salamence. Lacking the reliable recovery move that Starmie, Slowbro and Milotic all possess, but can be quite threatening once it starts setting up Calm Mind. It can Rest/Sleep Talk nicely, and throw Roar in the mix for Spikes/Stealth Rock abuse. Probably the best user of the Pressure trait, with a little bit of luck it can run Stone Edge out of PP.

- no change

Tyranitar - 100/110/100
Dark/Rock. Mostly known as an offensive Pokemon, but Tyranitar also makes a very potent counter to many Psychic threats due to immunity to their STAB, resistance to Fire, capability to use STAB Crunch/Pursuit and the 50% bonus to Special Defense thanks to auto-Sand Stream. This ongoing Sandstorm causes for quite a lot of residual pain. While much, much rarer than the Dragon Dancing, Choice Banding or mixed attacking Tyranitar, it can Roar as well.

- no change

Celebi- 100/100/100
Grass/Psychic. A Pokemon about as tough as Blissey thanks to the same Recover + Natural Cure syndrome. Resistance to Ground, Fighting, Electric and Water and an immense supporting movepool in Leech Seed, Heal Bell, Baton Pass (Calm Mind, Substitute, Swords Dance), Reflect, Perish Song, and Thunder Wave. The only thing that lets it down is 7 weaknesses, among others one to Pursuit.

- added Reflect & Perish Song.

Swampert - 100/90/90
Water/Ground. A bulky Water with about the same purposes as the others, except it is resistant to Stealth Rock and Rock in general, and immune to Electric and Sand Stream. This comes at the price of being 4x weak to Grass and not having a reliable Recovery move, but it more than compensates with the ability to lay down Stealth Rock, use Roar, counter non-Grass move Electrics, take on Tyranitar, Aerodactyl and other scary Stone Edging attackers and use a STABed Earthquake, boosted by Curse if desired.

- no change.

Ludicolo - 80/70/100
Grass/Water. Unique typing that shrugs off Water hits as well as Earthquake, making a Thunderpunch or HP Electric Ludicolo a very good idea for countering Gyarados. Leech Seed and Toxic allow it to support and sap HP, attacks with Surf, Energy Ball/Grass Knot and/or Ice Beam as well. Can run a Swift Swim set with Rain Dance rather effectively to

- no change

Slaking - 150/100/65
Normal. Slaking's stat lay-out screams "wreck stuff", which is exactly why it is a nice Pokemon to play defensively thanks to the immense HP combined with a nice 100 Speed. It can switch in on about anything at least once or twice and hit them with a super effective hit or, failing that, an extremely powerful Return or Double-Edge and OHKO more often than not. A great example is Gyarados, who can hardly do anything to Slaking but gets hit by a Thunderpunch.

- no change

Hariyama - 144/60/60
Fighting. Arguably the best switch into Blissey in the game with high HP, Guts to absorb status or Thick Fat for Ice Beam and the choice of many different Fighting assaults (Cross Chop, Close Combat and Force Palm). With Thick Fat also makes a splendid switch into Weavile without Aerial Ace, and Tyranitar has a tough time getting past it as well, both thanks to the awesome resistances of the Fighting type. Knock Off, Fake Out and Whirlwind give some utility while Counter can catch a heavy hitter off guard. It can also Bulk Up and use elemental punches, Earthquake, Rock Slide and Stone Edge.

- no change

Cradily - 86/97/107
Grass/Rock. While offensively retarded, Cradily's defenses are extreme, especially when you consider it cannot be phazed (due to Suction Cups) and it doesn't lose any health from Sand Stream - in fact, it gains a 50% Special Defense boost from it. It gets Mirror Coat to bounce back strong Special hits (like Ice Beams), Sand Stream may hinder that. Usually its only "offense" is Toxic, Confuse Ray, Stealth Rock or a super effective attack, though, unless it is using a Swords Dance set with Earthquake and Stone Edge/Rock Slide. It can make a pretty decent Electric counter as long as said Electric's name isn't Electivire.

- no change

Milotic - 95/79/125
Water. A very sturdy Pokemon, in no small part thanks to the Marvel Scale ability that gives it a 50% Defense boost when afflicted by status. That and Recover make it quite difficult to OHKO. Still, Recover and Marvel Scale can only goes so far to make up for its raw defensive stats and so it makes only an average counter at best to threats like Tyranitar, Lucario, and Salamence due to its tendency to get (nearly or completely) 2HKOed after a boost, but it can switch in on the weaker Grounds like Donphan all day long. Hypnosis allows it to disable at least one threat on the switch.

-I felt Milotic's walling abilities were a bit over-played so I toned down the hype a little bit

Dusknoir - 45/135/135
Ghost. Immunities to Fighting and Normal and immense defenses are what places Dusknoir at the top (it certainly isn't that 45 base HP). He can easily be tailored to counter Infernape and Electivire with Earthquake, or a Dragon with Ice Punch, or about any Psychic with Shadow Punch, or Heracross with Fire Punch - the possibilities are endless. An easy switch into Staraptor, Tauros and many Fighters. The Pursuit weakness is what breaks him most of the time.

- I actually disagree with you Tangerine that Dusknoir should be removed. Yeah, it's better than Rotom-A but Dusknoir is usuaully using a physical move - pool (and hence can be crippled by WoW), has access to Pain Split, and can use Sub/Punch CB etc. So it's "different" enough to warrant it's own spot. Anyway, "no change"

Walrein - 110/90/90
Ice/Water. Mostly useful in tandem with Abomasnow and its Snow Warning, Walrein can overcome its weakness to Stealth Rock thanks to its Ice Body ability that allows it, with Protect, Toxic, Substitute and Roar in its arsenal, to be an annoyingly sturdy wall. It gains 12.5% of its HP with every turn in the Hail because of Ice Body and Leftovers, and can accomplish this often when it uses Protect. Walrein can also utilize Curse, Rest and Sleep Talk effectively. Along with Abomasnow, Walrein sometimes enjoys the outside support of a Toxic Spikes user to free up one of its own moveslots.

- no change

Metagross - 80/130/90
Steel/Psychic. Great defensive typing AND defenses. Metagross' offensive typing with Meteor Mash isn't that amazing anyway, but it does do a good job at walling Weavile and Staraptor while also resisting Dragon. I am just listing it for that reason - while Metagross can go for a defensive moveset with Reflect, Light Screen, Stealth Rock, Rest/Sleep Talk and such, you should just look into its offensive movepool nonetheless (Thunderpunch, Meteor Mash, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Explosion) because otherwise you are just using a bad Bronzong/Jirachi.

- no change

Regirock - 80/200/100
Rock. Has Defense so huge that it can even absorb Earthquakes sometimes, making it a splendid safe switch into any Normal attacker. Thunder Wave and Stealth Rock are its main supporting options, but it can also pack a punch with Cursed Stone Edge/Rock Slide, Earthquake, elemental punches and of course Explosion. With a Sandstorm boost, it can easily take on about every competitively used Electric. Counter can work because of aforementioned defense enabling it to take things like Dragon Danced Earthquakes

- no change.

Registeel - 80/150/150
Steel. A virtually offenseless Pokemon due to lack of great attacking moves and only average-at-best attacking stats (75 each), but like the other Regi's it can Counter, Explode and Stealth Rock effectively. Ice Punch can hit the Grounds it can't paralyze. Can also use Curse. Mostly useful because of its resistances, a great switch into PorygonZ.

- added Curse.

Jirachi - 100/100/100
Steel/Psychic. It shares Metagross' awesome typing and can use it to be an utility Pokemon extraordinaire with Reflect, Light Screen, Stealth Rock, U-Turn and Wish at its disposal. Zen Headbutt and Body Slam allow it to utilize Serene Grace, or use elemental punches. It can also attack well from the Special side and tank with Calm Mind, followed by a sweep from Psychic, Thunderbolt, Thunder and/or Grass Knot.

- no change

Empoleon - 84/88/101
Water/Steel. While an Earthquake weakness makes it unfit for the "bulky Water" role, it makes a pretty good Special wall and it can lay down Stealth Rock and abuse it with Roar or Yawn. It's one of the best switches you can wish for into a Choice Specs Salamence, as well.

- no change

Bronzong - 67/116/116
Psychic/Steel. Basically it is a lot like Claydol with Metagross/Jirachi typing. It has the choice between two defensive traits, where Levitate is usually picked over Heatproof. It only has one effective weaknesses, and an extreme amount of resistances, most notably Dragon, Flying, Rock and Ground if it has Levitate. Can use Hypnosis, Stealth Rock and Reflect/Light Screen effectively, or use attacks to take some Pokemon one on one. Earthquake for Electivire, Grass Knot for Rhyperior, Charge Beam for Gyarados, and Gyro Ball for anything it's neutral on and fast enough to damage - examples are Salamence and Gengar.

- removed Garchomp reference

Spiritomb - 50/108/108
Dark/Ghost. Another Pokemon with the low HP/high defenses syndrome. Quite similar to Dusknoir, except with no weakness to Pursuit, or anything for that matter. Relies on Pain Split for recovery, and uses Pursuit and Sucker Punch to put opponents in checkmate position. Can Calm Mind or Nasty Plot to boost its okay Special Attack and go on the offense with Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball. Will-o-Wisp and Hypnosis disable opponents, and its Pressure trait allows it to outstall things like Blissey easily. Can be completely overrun with the right use of the move Substitute, however

- no change.

Hippowdon - 108/118/72
Ground. Pretty much the best balanced physical wall out there thanks to Slack Off. It can absorb even Heracross' STAB hits and Slack them Off. Lays down Stealth Rock with no problems, and can Roar anything that tries to set up on him. Earthquake from 112 base Attack hurts what it's supposed to, and it can use elemental fangs for things that it wants to hit hard (Salamence/Gliscor can be dealt with with Ice Fang, Gyarados with Thunderfang, etc). An extreme nuisance and a veteran player on stall teams, mostly because of the Sand Stream trait it shares with Tyranitar that effectively nulls most Leftovers recovery, hurts anything that doesn't have Leftovers and boosts the Special Defense of Rock-types.

- removed Garchomp ref.

Drapion - 70/110/75
Dark/Poison. At first sight, Drapion looks rather mediocre on paper to use defensively. Only average HP and SpDef means he completely relies on his 110 Def, and while his typing has only one weakness, it is to one of the most common attacking types out there (Ground). Where Drapion really shines is support moves: Knock Off, Whirlwind, Taunt and Toxic Spikes are all sought-after assets that other defensive monsters would kill to have. With the possibility of being totally immune to Critical Hits (thanks to his Battle Armor trait) and the option of a STABed Pursuit from a good 90 Attack, he can be a nearly foolproof counter to Psychics. What also makes him very worthy of including him in your squad is his ability to absorb any Toxic Spikes your opponent may have set simply by switching in

- no change

Mesprit - 80/105/105
Psychic. The balanced pixie, but plays defensively quite well, again Levitate helps this. Has roughly the same offensive movepool in U-Turn, Grass Knot/Energy Ball, Psychic, Thunderbolt/Charge Beam, but it has access to the infinitely useful Ice Beam as well as Calm Mind. This one, too, can set up Thunder Wave, Trick Room, Reflect, Light Screen and Stealth Rock, though it can't Yawn. Packs more of a punch than Uxie, but is less sturdy.

- no change

Heatran - 91/106/106
Fire/Steel. The only Pokemon in existence that is resistant to the Dragon/Fire attacking combo, and by far the best Weezing counter in the game. It absorbs any kind of Fire hit with Flash Fire, and if this happens it gladly returns the favor in the form of a STABed, Flash Fire boosted 130 Special Attack Lava Plume, Fire Blast, Overheat or Flamethrower. Its resistances make it a good switch into threatening forces such as PorygonZ, Azelf and Choice Specs Salamence. If it finds the time it can set up Stealth Rock, and Will-o-Wisp or Roar things. One thing to be wary of when using Heatran to wall things is the nasty weaknesses, in particular the 4x one to Earthquake and other Ground moves.

- no change

Cresselia - 120/120/130
Psychic. One of the most popular walls in existance, it shrugs off about anything with a focused EV spread and its Levitate trait. With such defenses, it can be tailored to counter about anything. Usually wards off Dragons with Ice Beam, whatever version they are, and Gyarados gets a deal of Charge Beam. Can Reflect/Light Screen easily, its only problems are lack of offense, weakness to Pursuit and lack of a good recovery move. Usually the latter problem is solved with Rest/Sleep Talk. Thunder Wave brings down many of its threats as well, especially Weavile.

Shaymin - 100/100/100
Grass. Usually forgotten in the existence of Celebi and Tangrowth, but good enough to prepare against. Natural Cure Rest, good overall defenses and lack of a Pursuit weakness in combination with a 100 speed Leech Seed combined with a 101 HP Substitute makes it quite comfortable in your defensive line-up. Its personal move Seed Flare may have a crappy attacking type, but it can put a hurting if you happen to not resist it. Grasswhistle puts something to sleep, which is sadly its only means of "offense" besides Grass moves and Hidden Power. Aromatherapy is always handy as well.

- no change.

Ones I want to add / adding

Rotom-A - 50 / 107 / 107
Electric / Ghost. Excellent typing along with its ability, Levitate , give it useful immunities to Fighting, Normal, and Ground and resistances to Steel and Flying. Solid defenses allow it to take hits from both ends up the attacking spectrum. It has access to support option like Will-O-Wisp, Reflect, Light Screen, Thunder Wave, and Discharge. Depending on the forme, it may also carry one of Overheat, Hydro Pump, Leaf Storm, Blizzard, or Air Slash.

Salamence - 95 / 80 / 80
Dragon / Flying. Intimidate and handy resistances to Ground, Fighting, and Bug. Can be EVed to take both physical and special hits quite well. Access to a fast Roost, in particular when used with Dragon Dance, can make Salamence difficult to take down. Can also occasionally support the team with Wish. Salamence is no slouch offensively either with a base 135 Attack, 110 Special Attack, and Speed. Furthermore, with access to Dragon Dance and high-powered STAB moves such as Outrage and Draco Meteor; Salamence can be both a threat offensively and defensively.

Machamp - 90 / 80 / 85
Fighting. Decent defenses when coupled with No Guard DynamicPunch (which guarantees confusion against the target) or Guts Close Combat can make Machamp not only difficult to take down, but he packs quite a punch too. Rest / Sleep Talk are often used to increase Machamp's overall survivability and makes Machamp a fairly reliable counter to Tyranitar.

 

[Great Sage]

The new Rotom forms are definitely worth adding to the defensive threat list. Machamp also gets my support. I don't think Salamence is as much a defensive Pokemon as a Pokemon that sometimes uses its defenses to become a more powerful offensive threat, and I'm really iffy on Flygon, since 80/80/80 just isn't that good.

 

[Caelum]

The new Rotom forms are definitely worth adding to the defensive threat list. Machamp also gets my support. I don't think Salamence is as much a defensive Pokemon as a Pokemon that sometimes uses its defenses to become a more powerful offensive threat, and I'm really iffy on Flygon, since 80/80/80 just isn't that good.

Yeah you're right. Flygon was a really, really borderline case for me so I'm just removing it. The typing really doesn't make up for it's stats. Shame.

About Salamence, I was struggling with the semantics of it more than anything. If it even bothers to play "defensively" it's for offensive purposes, arguably that's offensive play (WishMence is basically never seen so yeah). I'll think about Salamence more but Flygon is gone.

 

[kd24]

lee, tyranitar should probably have earthquake listed as well, i guess you forgot that we mentioned it yesterday.

 

[Lee]

I would consider expanding on Celebi a bit, the most offensive sets seen pre-plat were bulky Calm Minders. Celebi now can potentially utilise fast, Band sets are with that people have also started to consider offensive Special sets.

I've never seen a Choice Band Celebi and Doug's usage statistics agree with me on that one. I've mentioned all his usable physical and special options and by mentioning Trick I've implied that he could be using a Choice item.

The same goes for Jirachi, physical sets are a lot more viable, and can be run more offensivly.

All of Jirachis's usable physical moves are already there.

I would agree with removing Swarm and Iron Head from Scizor. Empoleons most popular sets are generally Sub + Boost, so that would be worth mentioning, unless you think mentioning Torrent already is enough. Magnezone could do with a mention of Hidden Power Fire, its the Hidden Power I generally see in RMTs.

Removed Iron Head, gonna leave Swarm because Scizor still does have the potential to run a Reversal set and Agility/Baton Pass/X-Scissor/Sub @ Swarm and Liechi Berry is a decent set. I think Torrent was played up sufficiently on Empoleon. Bit sketchy on adding HP Fire, it's not really a move you have to be concerned about when choosing a 'Zone counter...it's more of a specialist move for killing Scizor.

Maybe mention Trick under Gengar?

Ooops. Added.

lee, tyranitar should probably have earthquake listed as well, i guess you forgot that we mentioned it yesterday.

Sure thing.

Putting this up in the RMT forum now.

EDIT: Actually, one more concern and this is with the ordering. Jump said in the intro that the Pokemon were in absolutely no particular order but there's something that just feels wrong with having Scizor towards the bottom, Electivire at the top and so forth. Should it be re-ordered based on usage (I know that raises the question of whether or not we will reorganise it every month based on the latest usage statistics but I just want to see what people think)?

EDIT 2: It's up now, still happy to reorder them if people would prefer it that way.

 

[SoT]

Not really on usage in my opinion. Maybe put them in order from most threatening to least threatening? It'd come down to opinion though, so usage could be a good back up. But, yeah Scizor is needed near the top. ^_^

 

[Havak]

I'd probably just keep them organised alphabetically, but I have OCD so do with it what you will.

 

[Bologo]

Hey guys, are we going to upload the defensive threat list sometime?

It seems that only the offensive threat list got updated, so the defensive one really needs to be updated too.

Also, are we going to add Latias to both since it's OU now?

 

[Jumpman16]

list the pokemon alphabetically or by pokedex number i'd prefer the latter actually

and thanks for all the help on this guys! (i wrote, "peer edited" and maintained the entire offensive threat article/list by myself fyi)

 

[Caelum]

Hey guys, are we going to upload the defensive threat list sometime?

It seems that only the offensive threat list got updated, so the defensive one really needs to be updated too.

Also, are we going to add Latias to both since it's OU now?

I'm sick today so I was finding stuff to do and realized the defensive one still wasn't updated, so I did that.

I also added Latias to both (mine as well be current) and alphabetized them.

edit: I'll take responsibility for updating it in response to the suspect tests (if that's okay with Jump).