Project ORAS NU Theorymons

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Shadestep

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Welcome to the NU Theorymon project!
Much of this OP is taken from bb skarm 's version of the thread

Here, we will be discussing potential buffs (a new ability, a new move, or a new typing) on a Pokemon, and how it will positively impact its niche in the NU metagame.

The system will go as following: There will be a slate of 4-5 Pokemon that have been submitted from different users and handpicked by myself (except for the first slate, which are my own picks to get the project started). We will then discuss these "theorymons" for about 2-3 days, and then a voting period will commence, which last 4-5 days. It's dat boi. After this period, the winning Pokemon will be put into our archive.

You may submit theorymons any time you want, but please try to keep it at a maximum of 1-2 submissions per post. When submitting a theorymon, please don't make it mindless like Aerilate Swellow. Make it actually be logical, and give it an actual use.

You can play NU Theorymons matches at any time on Quite Quiet's sever at http://numetas-quitequiet.rhcloud.com-80.psim.us/. Simply build your team by manually overriding the appropriate moves / abilities etc of your Pokemon and challenge your opponent to the appropriate format. There's a metagame with only the winners as well as a metagame with all of the slate entries!

When discussing the slates, here is what you want to be looking at:
  • How will this buff positively impact the Pokemon?
  • How will this buff impact the entire NU Metagame?
  • Is this buff outclassed by other Pokemon?
  • Can this Pokemon now take on different roles?
PLEASE follow these rules:
  • Don’t suggest changes that make or may make a Pokemon broken
  • Only theorymon ideas that bring positives to the NU metagame and have useful implications will be picked, which means no Huge Power on random Pokemon and other similar buffs.
  • You can only add a secondary typing to Pokemon of one type, or change the second type of a dual-typed Pokemon.
  • Those changes should at the very least not contradict flavor. They don’t have to fit a Pokemon’s flavor perfectly, but don’t suggest a secondary Fire-type for Grass-types for example.
And this is where I'll put our archive, AKA winning theorymons. quziel made a spreadsheet you can see here:
Week 1 winners
1. Arbok + Dark-type

2. Mantine + Roost

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Week 2 winners
1. Sliggoo + Dragon Tail

2. Claydol + Recover

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Week 3 winners
1. Skuntank + Guts

2. Regirock + Solid Rock

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Week 4 winners
1. Rotom-fan + Roost

2. Poliwrath + Close Combat & Drain Punch

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Week 5 winners
1. Piloswine + Slack Off

2. Primeape + Knock Off

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Week 6 winners
1. Haunter + Nasty Plot

2. Floatzel + Analytic

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Week 7 winners
1. Sandslash + Mold Breaker

2. Lapras + Regenerator

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Week 8 winners
1. Ampharos + Tail Glow

2. Klinklang + Earthquake

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Week 9 winners
1. Articuno + Gale Wings (BANNED)

2. Vileplume + Toxic Spikes + Spore

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Week 10 winners
1. Lanturn + Wish

2. Dodrio + Reckless

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Week 11 winners
1. Pinsir + Fighting-type

2. Lapras + Lightning Rod

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Week 12 winners
1. Stunfisk + Volt Switch

2. Marowak + Sucker Punch

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Week 13 winners
1. Combusken + Close Combat

2. Samurott + Calm Mind

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Week 14 winners
1. Scyther + Superpower

2. Garbodor + Slack Off

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Week 15 winners
1. Torterra + Thick Fat

2. Mr. Mime + Moonblast

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Week 16 winners
1. Pyroar + Base 109 Atk + Flare Blitz

2. Mismagius + Fairy-type

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Week 17 winners
1. Probopass + Levitate

2. Wigglytuff + Prankster

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Week 18 winners
1. Noctowl + Boomburst

2. Luxray + Dark-type + Strong Jaw

3. Phione + Eviolite

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Week 19 winners
1. Electivire + Bolt Strike

2. Sandslash + Dark-type

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Week 20 winners
1. Whiscash + Simple

2. Armaldo + Skill Link + Pin Missile

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Week 21 winners
1. Torterra + Shell Smash

2. Rapidash + Base 115 Speed

3. Rotom-Frost + Ice Beam

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Week 22 winners
1. Meganium + Fairy-type + Unaware + Play Rough + Moonblast

2. Altaria + Dragon/Fairy type

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Week 23 winners
1. Trevenant + Shadow Sneak

2. Vanilluxe + Ice/Poison type + Sludge Bomb + Poison Jab

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Week 24 winners
1. Sudowoodo + Grass/Rock type + Head Smash

2. Bouffalant + Normal/Ground type

---------------------------------------------

Here are some sample teams that may / may not be good. Feel free to discuss them in the thread and suggest changes as the metagame progresses:
Noctowl @ Life Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Shadow Ball
- Agility
- Roost

Piloswine @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 220 HP / 252 Atk / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Slack Off

Primeape @ Choice Band
Ability: Vital Spirit / Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Skuntank @ Black Sludge
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 112 SpD / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Poison Jab
- Pursuit
- Taunt

Hitmonchan @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 124 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Mach Punch
- Rapid Spin

Jynx @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock
- Energy Ball
- Lovely Kiss

Phione @ Eviolite
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rain Dance
- Scald
- Toxic
- Rest

Probopass @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Power Gem
- Volt Switch

Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Rapid Spin
- Psychic
- Recover

Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 148 Def / 112 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Protect

Arbok @ Black Glasses
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Pursuit
- Coil

Wigglytuff @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Disable
- Dazzling Gleam

Whiscash @ Life Orb
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Vileplume @ Black Sludge
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Moonlight

Miltank @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 240 HP / 168 Def / 80 SpD / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Body Slam
- Milk Drink
- Heal Bell

Pyroar @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hyper Voice
- Return
- Will-O-Wisp

Jynx @ Leftovers
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock

Skuntank @ Black Sludge
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 108 SpD / 148 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Poison Jab
- Pursuit
- Defog
 
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+ Grass/Rock typing + Head Smash,
+ Normal/Ground typing.

Congratulations to the above winners! We're going to wrap this project up for now with Sun and Moon being released; you can probably expect Sun and Moon theorymon tournaments and a new thread in the future however! All of these mons will also still be available to play with on QQ's server in the ORAS metagame. Feel free to discuss the finished metagame here if you want.

Thanks to everyone for contributing!
 
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quziel

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So, hitmonchan often has problems with hitting rotom, or many other spin blockers at all, which really makes its ability to spin questionable. Thus, adding shadow punch would give it more, fun coverage, while fixing one of its main problems, while remaining fairly true to flavor, with iron fist.

This buff would let it hit flimsy ghost types such as rotom or mismagius for very high damage, provided that it isn't will-o-wisped first, and would increase the reliability of its spins. In general, this would allow for more SR weak pokemon to be used on teams, without worrying about the effects of a blocked spin, and this would make mons such as zard, articuno, and archeops much easier to fit on a team.


With the current slate, the most wide reaching of the changes would probably be giving lilligant earth power, as this would allow it to play much more aggressively during the midgame, as it can now easily threaten magmortar when unboosted, but it doesn't entirely fix its 2-move coverage, leaving it walled by most flying and grass types unless it decides to forgo sleep powder. In addition, its scarf set finally would get a third useful type to hit with, making it much easier to use, and giving the tier another at least semi-viable healing wish user.
 
Alright, Mach Punch Hariyama just aint logical. Defog Hariyama tho... And tbh, what difference would mach punch make? Fake out+Bullet punch doesnt really miss out on anything, and Bullet Punch actually hits more stuff neutrally than Mach Punch would hit SE. And better yet, Mach Punch is resisted quite a bit. The stab doesn't really help either, when it's still a weak move. All in all, I just feel like double priority for Yama is just... good. Whenever I have used it, it's used to pick off things like a weakened Vivillon, which would normally resist the Mach. I really fkin hope this made sense I wrote this in fury at 5 am.
 

Psycho Boost Malamar

This opens up a wide variety of options for Malamar in terms of sets and diversity. It's a psychic type that gets a bunch of psychic moves(Malamar also just gets a ton of weird moves... Flamethrower? Thunderbolt?) so logical enough.


Rock Head Rampardos

Considering this thing's armored cranium, it and it's counterpart being known for destructive headbutts, and the fact that it gets Head Smash, it's fair enough. Switch-in is where, exactly?


I'll talk about the slates later.
 
I could see Arbok being a cool psychic pursuit trapper as it has unnerve which allows it to effectively pursuit the psychic type without activating the colbur berry.
Arbok @ Life Orb
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch/Crunch
- Gunk Shot
- Earthquake/Aqua Tail
That's the set I was thinking it could use.
252+ Atk Life Orb Arbok Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xatu: 252-299 (75.4 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Arbok Pursuit vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 226-268 (52.1 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Arbok Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Grumpig: 398-468 (109.3 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It's definitely a weak attacker and I honestly don't see it being that much better with Dark Typing. Maybe C rank if it got it?

Also, wanted to put up my own nom-mon

Dodrio @ Life Orb
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Double-Edge
- Knock Off
- Low Sweep
BOOM! Dodrio with rock head to avoid recoil damage from Brave Bird and so it can run double-edge for more power. Low Sweep would be cool for hitting rock types and steel types like Regirock, Rhydon, and Steelix; I would have used Low Kick but, it would've made it a lot harder to counter and not that balanced of a mon. Just two changes to make Dodrio just that more awesome.
 

lax

cloutimus maximus
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Regarding Roost Mantine, that would be great actually. One problem with Mantine is that it has no real way of healing itself and can be wittled easily, the only current ways being little lefties recovery, chesto resto, or rest talk. Roost allows it to serve as a better, consistent switch in to the usual mon it beats and helps preserve it a lot easier. I'm assuming the set will be something like Roost, Defog, Scald, Signal Beam/Toxic.

I don't actually know how effective Earth Power Lilligant would be because ground coverage doesn't seem like the best coverage to me on a sleepsweeper, considering 2 move slots are already used up by Sleep Powder and Quiver Dance. There are better coverage moves and Earth Power really only helps with poison mons, poison mons that can get wittled by Hidden Power you choose on lili (Ice/Rock) and sleep. You can't cover them all, which is a given. However, I can see it being useful on the scarf set that would run Earth Power, Healing Wish, Hidden Power [Rock], and Leaf Storm/Giga Drain.

Freeze-Dry Jynx is pretty interesting because it allows you to hit any water type in the tier super effectively, but is weaker than Beam and won't be as good in other situations where you just want strong stab (possibly super effective) damage, unless you choose to run both.
 
Poison/Dark Arbok exchanges the snakes Fairy and Fighting resistance for an immunity to Psychic. This may be a double-edged sword for some, but being able to Sucker Punch is a really nice boon. Gets coverage moves like Earthquake, Aqua Tail, and Seed Bomb depending on what you want to hit. Probably won't make that big an impact, but it improves a mediocre Pokemon in the metagame and makes it a surprisingly decent option. It can be both a Coil sweeper and Pursuit trapper. Whether or not it'll be better than Skuntank or not is unsure.

Giving Mantine recovery makes it so much better in my opinion. With its massive special bulk it can take a lot of hits, and it has so much utility to bring to the team. Add recovery, and it's the clear choice for a Defogger on bulkier teams. The physical bulk is still garbage though.

Jynx getting Freeze-Dry gives it coverage against Water-types, which it usually lacks. Really though, this isn't going to change much, except this makes Jynx an even bigger fuck you to Water-types than it already is.

Earth Power Lilligant is in the same boat. 4MSS at its finest. Choice Scarf sets become a bit better though.

Mach Punch Hariyama is pointless in my opinion. Fake Out and Bullet Punch are more than enough. To be fair though, someone explained why this isn't much of a good choice, so I leave it at that.

Here's a few suggestions of my own.

Ground/Dark Sandslash + Mold Breaker:
Menacing appearance and stuff. Dark-typing gives it STAB Knock Off, and Mold Breaker lets it be a fuck you to Rotom and Haunter. Makes it a much more viable hazard remover in my opinion.

Electivire + Sheer Force:
With this change, Electivire gets that oomph of power it so desperately needed. A mixed set with Thunderbolt/Ice Punch/Earthquake/Volt Switch is probably your best option.

Fighting/Ghost Golurk:
Removing many weaknesses, STAB Drain Punch with Iron Fist, STAB Dynamic Punch with No Guard. This simple switch of typing makes it much more viable in the current meta. And besides, it basically is a fucking fighting robot. It's still slow though, thus it's easy to take advantage of its new weaknesses.
 

etern

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NU Leader
Freeze-Dry Jynx: Looks pretty good on paper, but it might be a little difficult to fit over something like Focus Blast/Nasty Plot, simply because you're still 2HKOing most water types with Psyshock anyway, (or at least putting them out of commision with Lovely Kiss). It'd definitely be nice, but nothing major in the grand scheme of things.

Roost Mantine: Roost would definitely solidify Mantine as the best defogger in the tier, and would prob result in a decline in the usage of Pelipper. HP Electric would also prob become a lot more common on Special Otter, Floatzel, Wrath, and Omastar.

Dark Arbok: Arbok has always been a fun mon, and giving it STAB Sucker Punch, and Pursuit would make it even more fun. It'd still face competition from Skuntank as a pursuit trapper though, and it would have an even tougher time setting up. Probably wont make too much of an impact, but I could definitely see it gaining some usage.

Now onto my nomination o:



Zebstrika @ Life Orb
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Flare Blitz
- Jump Kick
- Volt Switch

Originally I was gonna suggest giving Zeb an additional Fire-typing, but after doing some calcs, it was borderline broken. With Reckless, Zeb can still hit hard with it's new moves in Flare Blitz, and Jump Kick, while also boosting its main physical STAB. This would make Zeb a lot more dangerous since it's super fast, and can hit hard from both sides of the spectrum.
 
i never thought about using unnerve to bypass colburs on poison dark arbok thats p sweet. also we've seen from poison dark skunk that its just an awesome typing overall so i think that'd be the most practical one.

one think i think would be super practical and also cool to see would be Bug/Water Masquerain. basically we get a good check to fighters and physical attackers w/ access to intimidate, recovery, scald, defog etc. also a defensive webs setter seems alright but i dont think you could fit a slot for it. offensive sets would be cool too w/ access to quiver recovery and STAB water moves since bug water has rly good coverage already.
 

nv

The Lost Age
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Jynx + Freeze Dry
Jynx is an absolutely amazing threat already with its access to a sleeping move in Lovely Kiss and a powerful setup move in Nasty Plot. Giving it Freeze-Dry makes it the ultimate Water killer thanks to its ability, Dry Skin. Freeze-Dry also means it doesn't have to worry about bulky Water-types such as Samurott walling it with Psyshock doing not enough and them resisting Ice Beam. The problem with Jynx is that it still has the issue of pitiful bulk and not the best Speed tier considering the other offensive threats that are currently in NU. Overall, this is a major upgrade in my opinion and one that might even may Jynx suspect worthy if not at least S rank (it currently sits at A) as it gives it more coverage, in a sense, against the Water-types it checks via its ability.

Mantine + Roost
This was originally a submission, and subsequently a winner, in the OU Theorymon thread so it goes to show how many ppl really want this (come on GameFreak). But this would be an amazing step up for Mantine as it can now have access to reliable recovery while also getting rid of its Rock weakness and weakening its Electric weakness for one turn. The problem I see with Mantine is that Pelipper is already such an amazing pivot as it has a better Defense stat, access to U-turn, and as such can check Fighting-types better and as such it can still potentially overshadow Mantine. That being said, Mantine has amazing special bulk which can help better with special attackers thanks to the reliable recovery meaning it can not be worn down as easy anymore.

Hariyama + Mach Punch
Hariyama gaining Mach Punch is nice as it now has access to STAB priority (fk Bullet Punch and Fake Out imo), but I feel like it suffers competition from Hitmonchan considering the current popularity of it, providing utility in Rapid Spin. Hariyama hits slightly harder thanks to its better base Attack stat as well as having access to Knock Off for Ghost-types so I can see Assault Vest sets gaining a ton of more popularity as it now can be a nice pivot to pick off weakened threats while Band sets appreciate a way to get around its subpar Speed stat. Belly Drum sets can actually have a nice niche now as +6 Mach Punch means only faster priority can get around such a powerful attack.

Lilligant + Earth Power
Giving Lilligant Earth Power is the best thing it could ask for as it now has something to fill out its lacking movepool allowing it to run a more specific Hidden Power in Ice for Grass-types that now wall this coverage while most Fire-types in NU are bopped by Earth Power (looking at you Charizard <_<). The problem with this is that it has to give up on coverage or on setup opportunities as it has to either drop Hidden Power for Earth Power or Sleep Powder, giving it a slight case of 4MSS.

Arbok + Poison/Dark Typing
Arbok gaining another STAB is really nice especially with its access to Sucker Punch, meaning it no longer has to worry about Psychic-types as well as gaining a nice Ghost resistance. Only having one weakness aids in it setting up as well especially considering most Ground-types in NU are physical based and it has access to Intimidate. Honestly, I would go so far as saying that this could potentially outclass physical Skuntank as it has the same typing, access to Pursuit and Sucker Punch, as well as sporting a setup move in Coil, making it a massive threat.
 

Em

formerly Based Sexy Pants
Certainly like the ideas listed here. I think Lilligant and Mantine would have the biggest impact on the meta.
Lilligant is really restricted in teambuilding right now, with just the Quiver Dance set, however adding Earth Power helps make the Scarf set heaps ton more viable, while still not remaining broken.
Mantine is not necessarily unacknowledged, but it is fairly unloved due to its lack of reliable recovery. Giving it Roost solidifies it as a more concrete Fighting/Fire check to the NU meta, and allows it to check slow Rock types better. Could also be interesting to see on Rain teams with Swift Swim.

Wanted to give my girl Jerky some love, since she deserves more out of her life. Without boosting Sudowoodo's BST, little can be done to make Sudowoodo anything but a teambuilding niche. Often described as "directly outclassed by Golem", who in turn is often viewed as a worse Rhydon, Sudowoodo's unique access to Rock Head, and Wood Hammer definetly leave some potential while Theorymoning.

Jerky (Sudowoodo) (F) @ Choice Band
Type: Rock/Grass
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Head Smash
- Wood Hammer
- Sucker Punch

Using something like this presents Sudowoodo in a unique position for Trick Room teams. Similar to Marowak and Octillery, this could function as a very niche Trick Room Mon. (Alternatively you can use it to wall break some slower Mons if you wanna invest EV's on Speed.)
252+ Atk Choice Band Sudowoodo Head Smash vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 270-318 (62.3 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sudowoodo Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 205-243 (50 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sudowoodo Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Cradily: 343-405 (91.2 - 107.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Sudowoodo Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 270-318 (76.2 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sudowoodo Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Weezing: 231-273 (69.1 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Sudowoodo Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 612-724 (147.8 - 174.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sudowoodo Wood Hammer vs. 40 HP / 152 Def Lanturn: 668-788 (166.5 - 196.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sudowoodo Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hariyama: 403-475 (93.9 - 110.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Sudowoodo Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 432-510 (106.9 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sudowoodo Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Regirock: 264-312 (72.5 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sudowoodo Wood Hammer vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 145-172 (41.1 - 48.8%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sudowoodo Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Torterra: 229-270 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


An alternative way to make Sudowoodo viable whilst keeping its flavour is to give it Swords Dance! Sudowoodo is a lovely dancer for those of you that did not know, and Sudowoodo dances every time it uses an attack in Pokemon XY (search it up, it's so cute)! SD helps Sudowoodo obliterate not super bulky offensive Mons like Tauros and Charizard, while still remaining manageable.
 

erisia

Innovative new design!
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Woo, so glad to see that they approved this thread. :)

Jynx + Freeze Dry: This is pretty cool but I don't think it would actually make Jynx much more threatening than it already is. Jynx lacks the space to run it over anything but Ice Beam, and having a weaker Ice-STAB makes Jynx better against the Water-types it checks but weaker against everything else. The improved matchup against Samurott is notable, as Jynx can now KO it more reliably before it can go for a Megahorn, but Freeze Dry's power against neutral targets without a Life Orb or Nasty Plot boost is pretty underwhelming. I think Jynx would stay A rank with Freeze Dry but its usage would increase significantly as a more reliable offensive check to Water-types.

252 SpA Jynx Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mesprit: 102-120 (33.8 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mesprit: 129-153 (42.8 - 50.8%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Mantine + Roost: Obviously this would make Mantine a lot more reliable as a Defog user for stall teams (Roost over Air Slash) and balanced teams (Roost over Toxic?), but it might also make it easier to deal with overall due to the lack of coverage and Poison-status respectively, making it easier to set up on. I think Mantine would easily jump to A- rank but people would find ways to capitalize on it and prevent it from getting higher.

Hariyama + Mach Punch: This is a decent improvement tbh, don't know why people are underselling it, it basically lets Yama deal 25% more damage with Fake Out + Mach Punch and it increases the range of mons it can revenge kill quite significantly, being particularly useful against Normal-, Steel-, Fire-, Water-, and Electric- types. I think Hariyama would stay at A- rank but it would be able to revenge kill mons a lot more consistently, with Kanga + Yama probably becoming a key core for spike-stacking teams. Oh, and Belly Drum becomes real scurry.

Lilligant + Earth Power: This is an interesting improvement, but if Lilligant runs EP instead of HP Rock/Ice it still gets walled easily by Flying-types (particularly Charizard) and if it runs EP instead of HP Fire/Ice it makes Lilligant very easy to wall with a Grass-type of your own. Grass + Ground just isn't great coverage, so I reckon the main impacts of this change would be the Scarf set getting more usage, and a Quiver Dance + 3 Attacks set becoming standard (Grass + Ice/Rock + Ground is great, just ask Sceptile). Lilligant doesn't require Sleep Powder to become dangerous, and Vivillon is much better at that approach anyways as it doesn't have a 25% chance to give the opponent a free turn (2.5% is a lot smaller!). In fact I think Lilligant could go up to A+ rank with the latter set alone; the coverage is fantastic, Lilligant hits a good speed-tier, and bulky opponents just get set up on while Giga Drain mitigates residual damage. Vulnerability to priority attacks is the only real downside I can see.

Arbok + Poison/Dark typing: This is my favorite change from a flavor and competitive standpoint. The main differences between this and Skuntank is -40 Base HP, Unnerve/Intimidate over Aftermath, and a different movepool. I don't think Intimidate would get much usage as if anything this Arbok would be even more vulnerable to most physical attackers, losing its Fighting-type resistance. It would probably function best as an offensive trapper with Pursuit / Sucker Punch / Gunk Shot / Earthquake or Aqua Tail (not having to go mixed to hit Rhydon/Steelix decently hard is great), Life Orb, and Unnerve to bypass Colbur Berries. Alternatively, Haze could be used to stop things like mono-attacking Musharna, but Arbok will fold pretty easily to repeated Signal Beams. Being able to bypass Colbur Berry as an NU pursuit trapper is unbelievably good, although defensive teams will probably still prefer Skuntank due to its ability to switch in more easily, Aftermath, and defensive items like Lum Berry and Black Sludge to give it more consistent matchups. I think B rank would be a good place for it as a niche but highly-effective support Pokemon for offensive teams, particularly Fighting-spam teams.

252+ Atk Life Orb Arbok Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mesprit: 198-237 (54.3 - 65.1%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Arbok Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rotom: 346-408 (113.8 - 134.2%)

Okay, so time for my own nomination: Vivillon + Focus Blast

Rhydon + Solid Rock



Rhydon is already one of the most dangerous sweepers in the tier, but its crippling 4x weaknesses to Grass- and Water-type attacks along with its low SpD even with Eviolite make it easy for random special attackers to run Hidden Power and beat this thing. However, with the multiplier reduced to a 3x weakness, things start to look a little different.

252 SpA Life Orb Manectric Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Solid Rock Rhydon: 273-324 (77.7 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Magmortar Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Solid Rock Rhydon: 261-309 (74.3 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

The defensive tank set will also become a lot more viable, now that its decent SpD can't be bypassed quite so easily. I think this would probably push Rhydon into S-rank but do you think it would be banned to BL3 or would it still be manageable due to its low Speed?
 
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This looks like a great idea, hope it succeeds. My thoughts on the submitted (can't post sprites on my phone):

Mantine with Roost


Hell yes, reliable recovery would be a godsend for Mantine, making it much more efficient at its job of walling and Defogging

Jynx with Freeze Dry


Eh it already walls most special Water types anyway, and without Focus Blast it loses to Steel types.

Poison/Dark Arbok


An immunity coupled with 4 resistances and Intimidate will give Arbok an easier time setting up. STAB Sucker Punch is also nice


Earth Power Lilligant


While hitting Fire and Poison types is nice, it can't touch Bug and Flying types unless it run HP Rock, which of course means no Sleep Powder.


Mach Punch Hariyama


STAB Priority's always a good thing, it means it won't have to run the weak Fake Out and Bullet Punch



My Nominations:

Dodrio with Close Combat
Reasoning: This bird is completely outclassed by Guts Swellow, but with Close Combat it would have near perfect neutral coverage with its STABs (only resisted by Rotom). It would be something of a glass cannon, since it has solid Attack and Speed but can't take hits well.

Kingler with Tough Claws and Water / Normal typing

Reasoning: Between Kabutops and Samurott, Kingler is thoroughly outclassed. With new typing it could hit all of NU bar Ferroseed for netural damage. Tough Claws makes sense (I mean look at this thing!), and would make it incredibly strong with its 130 base Attack. However, it would still have average at best Speed and low Special Defence.
 
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poh

<?>
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Freeze Dry on Jynx: Hmm idk if it would be that beneficial to use it over Ice Beam. It would make a nice switch in to Water types with Dry Skin in mind. Freeze Dry OHKOs Mantine which is nice.

Roost on Mantine: Great! Actual reliable recovery is really nice. Would definitely make Mantine the defogger to go maybe even the best hazard remover of NU.

Mach Punch on Hariyama: Not sure if it would change anything. I don’t feel like Yama really needs it, Fake Out+Bullet Punch isn’t all that bad anyway.

Earth Power on Lilligant: I feel like HP-Rock/Fire/Ice are way better options than Earth Power. Ok it lets you hit Poison, Steel and Fire types bar Zard but then you would miss out on Flying types and fearing Bug types and Ice types more.Grass types would just simply wall it. I don’t think it would make Lilligant stronger than it is now.

Poison/Dark Typing on Arbok: Nice! The added Dark type would make it easier to set up along with Intimidate. Arbok can already learn Sucker Punch and Pursuit to trap Psychics which makes the Dark typing a logical choice.

My own nominations:



Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch / Aqua jet
- Close Combat
- Waterfall
- Bulk Up

Give this thing CC already!! Mach Punch / Aqua Jet to give it nice priority.
You could run it mixed with Hydro Pump which is really nice.

Oblivious instead of Healer as Mega-Audinos new ability. Since Audino likes to use moves like Wish, Protect, Calm Mind and Heal Bell. Not able to taunt it would make it even harder to deal with!

Giving Weezing a Fire type. In combination with Levitate giving Weezing a Fire typing would make it really good. It would also resist the special Fire attacks its currently suffering. Weezing actually learns a few Fire type moves like Will-o-Wisp, Fire Blast and Flamethrower
 
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This is a really cool thread Aurosis and I already love it. Gonna talk about the sets I would run and how they would change the viability of the mon!


Jynx (F) @ Life Orb/Focus Sash
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Psychic
- Focus Blast/Ice Beam
- Lovely Kiss

So this is the least game changing theorymon but still a good one. Freeze-Dry would help it out with things like Samurott, Lanturn, Ludicolo, Mantine etc. It provides a way to OHKO or 2HKO a pokemon Jynx usually couldn't take on before, and this provides a great boost since Jynx is so frail and unable to take more than one or two hits.
I wouldn't run it on a nasty plot or scarf set however as with those sets I value power over being able to hit water types more effectivly so LO/Focus Sash suits it well. Overall it would be a nice touch to Jynx's moveset, however I doubt it would change its overall viabilty on the viability rankings.
252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Freeze-Dry vs. 40 HP / 208+ SpD Lanturn: 244-291 (60.8 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 364-437 (108.9 - 130.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Samurott: 367-432 (110.8 - 130.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SpD
Calm Nature
- Roost
- Scald
- Toxic/Air Slash
- Defog

This would be absolutely huge for Mantine, it would instantly become our best defensive defogger outclassing pelipper by almost everything except u-turn. It can reliably switch in on mons it couldn't before at the fear of being worn down, it provides reliable recovery and would force more pokemon to run an electric type move, for example combusken, mesprit and samurott. It's main problem of being worn down by hazards before it gets the chance to defog is now no longer anywhere near as significant as a threat. I believe it would rise to A in the viability rankings if it got roost since it solves so many of Mantines previous flaws and brings no new ones.


Hariyama @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 240 Atk / 240 SpD / 28 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- Earthquake
- Knock Off

Mach Punch would be a cool move for hariyama, it hits significantly harder than bullet punch, while still keeping the main uses of it. It would still often run AV since it is such a good set, however mach punch would let it runs sets like Bulk Up, Choice Banded and Flame Orb Guts a lot more effectivly. It also provides hariyama a way to hit shiftry, liepard and pawniard without taking damage and lowering your defenses.
Again, it wouldn't raise viability by an incredible amount, but being able to make use of more sets and hitting mond harder is nice.


Lilligant (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Giga Drain
- Sleep Powder
- Quiver Dance

Earthpower would be a cool move for lilligant, it provides a great way to beat the poison types that annoy lilligant like garbodor and skuntank. It also stops things like vital spirit magmortar and electivire which is great since they can annoy lilligant a lot, however it does open up the likely chance that you get walled by certain mons like weezing and ferroseed. Although it also adds a great option to the choice scarf set . It adds an extra offensive option and still allows it to run a hidden power move if it desires unlike the quiver dance set. Overall it would be a great option for Lilligants repertoure. It would limit lots of mons from freely switching in on it.
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garbodor: 400-473 (109.8 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Skuntank: 421-497 (121.3 - 143.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Earth Power vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar: 161-190 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



Arbok @ Black Sludge
Ability: Shed Skin/Intimidate
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Aqua Tail
- Sucker Punch
- Coil

If Arbok got Dark type, its viability would fly through the roof. It adds stab sucker punch and a psychic immunity, both are amazing and give arbok many oppertunities to set up. It also resists dark and ghost as well, this only furthers set up chances more. Stab sucker is perfect as it now has great priority even when you haven't set up. Overall, it would be great.


Quagsire w/ Stealth rock
 

Hello! I don't play NU, but I do love to theorymon! Above are two things that would be really cool if they actually happened.
  • Mismagius has the Ability Technician
This pokemon already has a lot going for it, but its ability is a little unnecessary and its strongest attack is Shadow Ball. With technician, Mismagius now has a 90 base power stab in the form of Ominous Wind. It also gets its hidden powers boosted to base 90 power. This is basically gives Miasmagius an "earth power" vs Skuntank and Pyroar. Icy Wind seems like a cool option but I don't know what circumstance you would use it under.
Mismagius @ Life Orb/ Colbur Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Ominous Wind
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Dazzling Gleam


252 SpA Life Orb Technician Mismagius Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Skuntank: 273-322 (78.6 - 92.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Technician Mismagius Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pyroar: 309-367 (98.7 - 117.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Mismagius Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Claydol: 252-299 (77.7 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Technician Mismagius Ominous Wind vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Claydol: 283-335 (87.3 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

  • Weezing can learn the move Gunk Shot
Weezing has some sucky stabs which is unfortunate since it does have a decent attack stat at 90. The damage output is absolutely stunning compared to that of sludge bomb!
0 SpA Weezing Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Primeape: 114-135 (42 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Weezing Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primeape: 178-210 (65.6 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You maintain the 30% to poison while having the extra power to kill the attacker or prevent the attacker from setting up on you so easily. Although this is a very small change, I believe is would make a major impact on the meta as Weezing now is a garbador with levitate and wilo. Mega Audino can also not set up on you now since it does not boosts its physical side. Here is the set I was thinking about.
Weezing @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Gunk Shot
- Fire Blast/ Pain Split
- Pain Split/ Toxic Spikes
 

Shadestep

volition immanent
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
I think most of what could be said about the slates has been said already so I'm gonna post some ideas I came up with myself:
  • Analytic (+ Thunderbolt) Floatzel
Floatzel @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt / Taunt

Floatzel is a pretty strong special attacker to begin with, and Analytic + Life Orb makes it even harder to switch in to. Normal counters to special Floatzel are things like Lanturn and Mantine, which now all get blasted on the switch for a buttload of damage (idk if Thunderbolt is reasonable or if that would make it beyond broken). Think of it as an Analytic Starmie but without a reliable secondary STAB-move.

  • Natural Cure (+ Leech Seed) Vileplume
Vileplume @ Black Sludge
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 SpD
Calm Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis
- Leech Seed / Hidden Power [Fire]
Vileplume is pressured a lot by burns, say by getting Wisped by Rotom or burned by Scald. normally it wouldn't really be able to get rid of that status itself and would have to rely on a teammate using Heal Bell, but now not anymore. Vileplume can now more safely switch into Rotom, Lanturn, Poliwrath, etc. as it can easily shrugg off burns. It will also be compatible with Leech Seed so you can abuse that too!
 

Take Azelfie

More flags more fun
+ Freeze-dry
Now this is really nice touch to Jynx as it lets it actually use its ability Dry Skin to its full advantage. Obviously hitting Water-types is important but for what sets will get a boost. I really think that Nasty Plot + Lovely Kiss will be the most buffed since it now gives it the ability to plow through Water-types which might have given it trouble before (primarilly having a way to beat Mantine.) Regarding how this change will affect it I feel that it will pretty only reduce the stress on Stealth Rocks. Oh I forgot to mention that this is pretty much now the best Samurott check since it can't get killed by Aqua Jet.
+ Mach Punch
This changed really nothing for Hariyama except it now has stronger priority and can hit Steel-types. I actually think this small little change gives it a buff its Guts set since now it has a really cool priority move that deals a lot of damage surprisingly. This can be really useful against Swellow as it will always be able to land a 2HKO and versus Guts can effectively trade off if needed after Stealth Rocks.

Also Aurosis. 1) Will you get this to be playable anywhere in the future or will it just be a thought exercise. Evan edit: read the OP

2) I think that maybe you should make nominations for the next slate be submitted through PM so this thread doesn't get extremely cluttered up.
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
+ Freeze Dry
A very interesting option that will put down the piece of shit that is Vanilluxe once and for all certainly make Jynx a lot more efficient at picking off Water-types that would otherwise just take a Psychic-type attack and retaliate (Ludicolo and Samurott come to mind), and further justifies the use of mono-attacking Jynx.
Already had the misfortune of facing this in an NU STABmons tour once, but obviously giving a Pokemon with amazing typing and sky-high SpD a method of reliable recovery is nothing short of a recipe for success. Would be unequivocally the best anti-hazard mon in the whole tier.
+ Mach Punch
STAB priority is certainly something Hariyama would appreciate, as it strikes down a lot more targets super effectively, such as Tauros, Pyroar, and Barbaracle. Can do the classic double-whammy combo with Fake Out too.

+ Earth Power
Quiver Dance Lilligant with effective 3-move coverage (most likely alongside HP Rock) is just about one of the scariest damn things in the whole tier, and almost alleviates the need for Sleep Powder entirely. Who needs to put things to sleep when u kill >70% of whatever stands in your way?

+ Poison/Dark Typing
This mon would actually outclass Skuntank as a Pursuit trapper, with Shed Skin allowing tit to shrug off burns and even Unnerve to disable Colbur Berries, plus unlike Skuntank, Arbok has the means to defend itself against bulky Poison resists using Earthquake or Seed Bomb. The Coil set would adore STAB Sucker Punch as well.

But these are just nitpicks at this point; other people have already said what I wanted to say. So instead I make a different kind of nomination from the rest that have been suggested:

Swap its Attack stat and Special Attack stat (all formes)

There's a good reason why Gourgeist doesn't use its STAB in NU, and not just because Foul Play is a decent attack. No, it's also because its physical movepool is pretty damn garbage. Its best STAB attack is Seed Bomb, but NU has a lot of physically bulky mons and Gourgeist-Super has the audacity to do such pitiful damage against one of the 4x weak ones without investment [0 Atk Gourgeist-Super Seed Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 204-240 (58.1 - 68.3%)]. Its only usable Ghost-type attack are Shadow Sneak and Phantom Force, both of which do absolutely nothing to deter Xatu from just waltzing right in. Aside from Foul Play, Rock Slide is the most useful attack in Gourgeist-Super's barren physical movepool for this meta, and you're in trouble if both your STABs aren't as good as your average coverage move.

Meanwhile, Gourgeist's special movepool is pretty damn colorful in comparison, not only with far superior STAB attacks in Giga Drain and Shadow Ball, but its coverage consist of attacks like Fire Blast, Psychic, and Focus Blast, which are pretty strong attacks that can certainly see use if Gourgeist's SpA isn't awful. We all know how annoying Vileplume can be to switch into partly due to its power, and 'stat-swapped Gourgeist' would fare ~as well in the same regard. Even Gourgeist-Small would have a usable SpA stat of 85, which combined with its Speed allows it to actually have some corebreaking potential.
 
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Hi using this post to address a few things:

Take an Azelfie : Quite Quiet was nice enough to add an "NU theorymon" metagame to an unregistered server of his, so the minitour will be playable on that server in the future. In regards to your 2nd point, you are not the only to suggest this change and I am considering it for the next round, thanks.

Also thank to Based Sexy Pants for providing me with a temporary banner until I find an official one, much appreciated!
 

Take Azelfie

More flags more fun
+ Drain Punch + Mach Punch
This could honestly fit in really well basically be a new replacement for Gurdurr (higher SpD but lower HP and Def)

Machoke @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off

There isn't really too much to say about this one except that it can replace Gurdurr hole very easilly.
 

Wandering Wobbuffet

formerly Based Honker
I think most of what could be said about the slates has been said already so I'm gonna post some ideas I came up with myself:
  • Analytic (+ Thunderbolt) Floatzel
Floatzel @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt / Taunt

Floatzel is a pretty strong special attacker to begin with, and Analytic + Life Orb makes it even harder to switch in to. Normal counters to special Floatzel are things like Lanturn and Mantine, which now all get blasted on the switch for a buttload of damage (idk if Thunderbolt is reasonable or if that would make it beyond broken). Think of it as an Analytic Starmie but without a reliable secondary STAB-move.
Honestly I don't think it's unreasonable to give this thing t bolt. Starmie is a gen 1 pokemon so obviously it has an absurd movepool however you know what other water type from sinnoh gets t bolt?
Sure it's part normal but still t bolt floatzel is reasonable despite no normal typing.
 
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