NP: UU - Bye Bye Bye

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If you thought Porygon-Z was bad, Heracross will be much worse. They have approximately the same power level, but Heracross has 2 good stab moves instead of one, and Weezing =/= physical Blissey. Weezing isn't even really a counter to Heracross. As has been mentioned, Fire Blast and Sludge Bomb don't OHKO, and Will-o-wisp...bad idea. The best bet for beating Hera is Moltres, and even then you better watch out for Stone Edge on the switch, not to mention that SR completely ruins that since they can just go to their Moltres switchin as you attack and force you out before you can heal again.

I have tried a Rock Polish team that led with Hippopotas. It worked fairly well because Golem and Regirock can explode on anything that Rhyperior can't OHKO.

I have also used a lot of ss recently because I love how it messes with status, and the best way to win with it is to play it like Curse Umbreon semistall from last format. They have similar weaknesses and can be played essentially the same way. Cradily has an advantage over other special walls (With the exception of the banned Umbreon ) in that it can take out both ghosts and Moltres without much trouble. Better yet, it walls those lame leech seed Sceptile and Venusaur sets. I have found Curse, Rest, Seed Bomb, Rock Slide to be an effective set. Losing to anything with toxic is terrible, so Recover is a terrible option, and 1 attack is hard to sweep anything with so I go with 2.

I always enjoy using alternative stalling methods, because people always prepare themselves for traditional stall teams rather than more innovative strategies. Cradily is capable of beating the typical Chansey-breaking sets, so it puts a lot of teams in a bind.
 
Golbat checks Hera (and Venu lol!) too and so does Aerial Ace Nidoqueen/Gligar. The latter of which is prolly the most reliable Hera counter in UU actually.

If it does come down, im gonna use Sub +3 Attacks Cross, dont ask but it sounds like a hell of a lot of fun. Seriously though Rest Talk Hera seems interesting to me, makes a nice switch in to all those Venu spamming Sleep Powder with resistance to grass, ground and good s.def.

Mainly want to see Tenta UU though. =P
 
Heracross will never come down to UU so don't dream on it. What the fuck is going to switch into Choice Band @ Close Combat / Megahorn / Stone Edge / Facade? He doesn't even need to run Pursuit anymore.

Weezing just doesnt do enough damage and the Swords Dancer fucks it over.

Also, Bulk Up Heracross can get awfully tough to take down...

I mean this is all theorymon but i dont see that being any fun :(
 

SJCrew

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Bulk Up Hera will be a joke in UU, since there are actually Fire types there and all of them are faster. I'm leaning almost exclusively on the CB set ripping through the metagame though, and possibly a sub set if you don't mind getting "walled".
 
How about switch in Arcanine with Intimidate to "revenge" Heracross with Flare Blitz. Hey, it doesn't sound all that bad, unless, of course, I'm missing something.
 

shrang

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Golbat checks Hera (and Venu lol!) too and so does Aerial Ace Nidoqueen/Gligar. The latter of which is prolly the most reliable Hera counter in UU actually.

If it does come down, im gonna use Sub +3 Attacks Cross, dont ask but it sounds like a hell of a lot of fun. Seriously though Rest Talk Hera seems interesting to me, makes a nice switch in to all those Venu spamming Sleep Powder with resistance to grass, ground and good s.def.

Mainly want to see Tenta UU though. =P
<3 Golbat. I've been testing that thing recently and it's actually quite good. It's not the flashiest thing out there, but it can check threats while being badass at the same time. I've been running an NP set with it lately and it's swept a few teams, but in general, made sure Venusaur stayed down. Base 65 Special Attack may seem crappy, but after an NP, it reaches 458 Special Attack, and if you don't like eating Moltres' Air Slashes, you certainly won't like taking NP Golbat's ones either. It's defenses aren't terrible, considering his numerous resistances (Grass, Poison, Fighting and immunity to Ground).
 
Been playing on shoddy instead of wifi... where did all the Moltres go? I figured the higher I got the better chance I would see one but they are very few and far between and none of them have done a damn thing. Now, before someoen goes "those people obviously don't know how to use moltres..." how high up do you need to go before people can use something that some considered "broken?" Hell, I cracked the leaderboard...

What is even weirder is half my matches are played without rocks for one reason or another, which is an environment moltres should feast on, and yet still... no moltres pwnage.

And I have still yet to have any trouble whatsoever with Venusaur, but I haven't seen any of the mixed variety people clamor about. People are still using the horrible SD set for some reason.

Now Milotic on the other hand... seems like if you don't keep direct pressure on it the thing never ever dies. Still don't think it is broken but I see where it comes from.
 
<3 Golbat. I've been testing that thing recently and it's actually quite good. It's not the flashiest thing out there, but it can check threats while being badass at the same time. I've been running an NP set with it lately and it's swept a few teams, but in general, made sure Venusaur stayed down. Base 65 Special Attack may seem crappy, but after an NP, it reaches 458 Special Attack, and if you don't like eating Moltres' Air Slashes, you certainly won't like taking NP Golbat's ones either. It's defenses aren't terrible, considering his numerous resistances (Grass, Poison, Fighting and immunity to Ground).
Makes me want Crobat back just to laugh every time Venusaur came in, check half of every team, and then sweep late game.
 
hmm

I suppose lolbat does check toxicroak, physical venu, pinsir (lol) and hera if it comes down, but it is also complete rhyperior setup bait, which is...not good.

My favorite 'bat set is a rest / sleep talk / calm mind / sludge bomb set: "Cro" bat. LOL.

EDIT: I know it doesn't learn CM...it was a joke
 
What the fuck is going to switch into Choice Band @ Close Combat / Megahorn / Stone Edge / Facade? He doesn't even need to run Pursuit anymore.
What can switch into Blaziken @ Choice Band: ThunderPunch / Superpower / Flare Blitz / Stone Edge? (Or @ Fire Blast / Superpower / Hidden Power Grass / Stone Edge?)

What can switch into Magmortar @ Life Orb: Fire Blast / Thunderbolt / Cross Chop / Hidden Power Ice?

There are a lot of Pokemon that this argument applies to. I don't think Heracross is going to be as horrifying as people think, especially this Choice Band set. I think the Swords Dance set will destroy the shit out of the tier with the Scarf set a close second, but it's not about "2HKOing the whole tier based on prediction".
 

PK Gaming

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Honestly, who even needs prediction with Heracross? Just spamming CB Close Combat will net you a crap load of kills. Hell, Heracross KO's Moltres with SR in play
(53.3% - 62.6%) And 1-2HKO's possibly every conceivable UU physical wall

(with the possible exception of Weezing... who can't even touch you)
Of course, ghosts ruin the *spam CC plan* Good thing CB Stone Edge OHKO's
them all.

This thing is going to rip up the UU tier, and I'm going to literally love every minute of it.
 

FlareBlitz

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The only things in the tier that can even think about checking Heracross are defensive Intimidate Arcanine, defensive Moltres, Weezing, and.....wow, that was a short list! And that's assuming it only attacks with its STABs; those Pokemon are literally the only ones who can switch into a +1 Close Combat or Megahorn and pose some sort of threat to Heracross. Their ability to check heracross disappears if you take its coverage options (Stone Edge, Earthquake, Facade) into account. It doesn't help that it's immune to burn, meaning that Rotom and Mismagius go from being checks to being temporary annoyances before becoming a purple smear on the wall.
 
Why are we talking about Heracross?
Because it is low in usage for OU so there is a chance it will drop to UU. I don't know how good that chance is, but that's why people are speculating about what it (and Electivire, similar circumstances) would be like in UU. Plus, there aren't any glaring suspects, so there's nothing else to talk about.

Speaking of, both of them could benefit the metagame, since both have the SpDef, Atk, and coverage to beat Milotic and Venusaur.
 
Reality check: tiers don't change until September. Last month's stats will have little impact on the tier calculations and trends in OU could change. So yes, this discussion is largely pointless.

How come you thought Hera was UU when it isn't?

Heracross was used for analogy purposes only.
1) Where does he imply he thinks that? His post clearly implies that a heracross discussion does not belong in an UU thread.

2) Heysup was the only one making comparisons. Everything else is full blown theorymon.
 

WECAMEASROMANS

Banned deucer.
If Gallade didn't make it, Heracross won't even last a week in UU. The SD set with Flame Orb/LO will completly decimate the metagame. Two good STABS with 120 BP and 125 base attack is absolutely deadly.
 

FlareBlitz

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Heracross' impact on UU is about as relevant as Milotic's defensive capabilities; the thread is here to discuss previous, current, and possible trends in the metagame, so I don't see how discussing Heracross is any worse or better than discussing anything else related to competitive Pokemon in UU.

That said, I'd rather discuss more interesting Pokemon like Tentacruel, Electivire, and Dusknoir. It's apparent to me that Heracross will either be insta-banned or be so broken that discussion about it will be pretty much unnecessary except to make fun of those people who will inevitably say "hurrr play around it".

I see Tentacruel, Dusknoir, and Electivire being pretty underwhelming. Electivire is basically a better Luxray. Dusknoir could be useful for teams that want a sturdy ghost without Spiritomb's horrendous physical movepool, but it will miss the Dark subtyping Spiritomb has. Tentacruel is outclassed by Milotic as a special wall except for being able to take on Toxicroak and some other fighting types better, but it has a Swords Dance set available to it. Having used Ludicolo though, I can say that +2 base 70 ATK is really nothing to write home about.

So any of those Pokemon could be a nice change in the metagame, but I don't see any of them really setting it on fire...
 
tentacruel: has a decent movepool. ice beam/surf/sludge bomb/giga drain anyone? but it will mean venasaur will be even more popular to absorb t-spikes. I could see this being donphan. initially troublesome, but then it dies down and becomes an excellent support mon that can either wall and stall or go offensive to take out anti-support.

Electivire: will mean no one will throw around thunder waves or thunderbolts. hp:grass will be popular for rhyperior and omastar. thunderpunch/cross chop/earthquake/hp:grass 252/252 will be the set.

Dusknoir: much higher overall defenses than rotom-a? yes please. I always thought dusknoir > rotom-a just for raw defensive stats. One of the few things that could stop hera, with fire punch.

Heracross: I will ladder like crazy this month to keep it OU. Of course, I'm just one guy...
 
I'd disagree on at least Tentacruel, FlareBlitz. While it's Special Walling capabilities are certainly not as good as ol' buddy Milotic, Tentacruel learns the ever-important Rapid Spin(that alone gives most teams a reason to run it over Milly). Additionally, poison helps protect it from the numerous grass types(specially-inclined Venusaur, most of all) in the tier, and gives an immunity to Toxic(which breaks so many other walls). And I haven't even started on the number of other thing Tentacruel can do that Milly can't(Knock Off and TSpikes are the two biggest).

Electivire would be underwhelming, but a good addition to UU I think. His main point is that he beats down the MiloSteel core with great prejudice. Being able to outspeed a large portion of the tier is nice too. Anything I could think to run Dusknoir with is played better with Spiritomb, but I'm not think too hard.
 
The thing about Tentacruel though is that it lacks recovery. I could see it being useful on stall where it can run Rest + a cleric or get passed Wish and offense when ev'd that way, but I don't find that Tentacruel would have much use on balance, where Milotic is superior.
 

Meru

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The thing about Tentacruel though is that it lacks recovery. I could see it being useful on stall where it can run Rest + a cleric or get passed Wish and offense when ev'd that way, but I don't find that Tentacruel would have much use on balance, where Milotic is superior.
Balance can use a Rapid Spinner like Tentacruel I'm sure.
 
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