Metagame Workshop

[lydian]

Sky Battle

Metagame premise

Plain and simple, only Pokémon avaiable in X and Y's Sky Battles are allowed here, Ubers are also banned as Sky Battles would be OU based. Certain Moves are also not allowed, just like in the in game counterpart.

Potential bans and threats

Zapdos looks really good, walling most of the tier and hitting most Pokémon Super Effectively, Thundurus-T is also great because it hits most of the tier quite hard and it also provides an Electric-type immunity which would be amazing in this kind of Metagame. Landorus-T also provides a Rock- and Electric-type switch in and can also set up Stealth Rock which hurt the whole tier really really hard. Skarmory also stands out as one of the tier's few reliable Deffogers due to its neutrality to SR.

Questions for the community

- Would you even play this? Is this Metagame concept interesting to you?
- Should Volcarona, Nihilego, Alolan Raichu and other Pokemon become eligible to add more diversity to the tier or is sticking with the official banlist better?
- Is Stealth Rock banworthy?
- Are any of the Pokémon in the 'Potental bans and threats' section banworthy?

Eligible Pokémon

Charizard
Mega Charizard X
Mega Charizard Y
Butterfree
Pidgeotto
Pidgeot
Mega Pidgeot
Fearow
Zubat
Golbat
Ghastly
Haunter
Koffing
Weezing
Scyther
Gyarados
Mega Gyarados
Aerodactyl
Mega Aerodactyl
Articuno
Zapdos
Moltres
Dragonite
Noctowl
Ledyba
Ledian
Crobat
Togetic
Xatu
Hoppip
Skiploom
Jumpluff
Yanma
Misdreavus
Unown
Gligar
Mantine
Skarmory
Lugia (banned!)
Ho-oh (banned!)
Beautifly
Swellow
Wingull
Pelipper
Masquerain
Ninjask
Vibrava
Flygon
Swablu
Altaria
Mega Altaria
Lunatone
Solrock
Baltoy
Claydol
Duskull
Tropius
Chimecho
Salamence
Mega Salamence (banned!)
Latias
Latios
Rayquaza (banned!)
Mega Rayquaza (banned!)
Staravia
Staraptor
Mothim
Combee
Vespiqueen
Drifloon
Drifblim
Mismagius
Honchkrow
Chingling
Bronzor (requires Levitate)
Bronzong (requires Levitate)
Carnivine
Mantyke
Togekiss
Yanmega
Gliscor
Rotom
Uxie
Mesprit
Azelf
Crescelia
Tranquill
Unfezant
Woobat
Swoobat
Sigilyph
Archeops
Swanna
Emolga
Tynamo
Eelektrik
Eelektross
Cryogonal
Braviary
Mandibuzz
Hydreigon
Tornadus
Thundurus
Landorus
Fletchinder
Talonflame
Vivillon
Noibat
Noivern
Yveltal (banned!)
Rowlet
Dartrix
Trumbeak
Toucannon
Vikavolt
Oricorio
Minior
Celesteela

In-eligible Moves

Body Slam
Bulldoze
Dig
Dive
Earth Power
Earthquake
Electric Terrain
Fire Pledge
Fissure
Flying Press
Frenzy Plant
Geomancy
Grass Knot
Grass Pledge
Grassy Terrain
Gravity
Heavy Slam
Ingrain
Land's Wrath
Magnitude
Mat Block
Misty Terrain
Mud Sport
Muddy Water
Psychic Terrain
Rototiller
Seismic Toss
Shore Up
Slam
Smack Down
Spikes
Stomp
Substitute
Surf
Toxic Spikes
Water Pledge
Water Sport

 

[Ludicrousity]

Sky Battle

Metagame premise

Plain and simple, only Pokémon avaiable in X and Y's Sky Battles are allowed here, Ubers are also banned as Sky Battles would be OU based. Certain Moves are also not allowed, just like in the in game counterpart.

Potential bans and threats

Zapdos looks really good, walling most of the tier and hitting most Pokémon Super Effectively, Thundurus-T is also great because it hits most of the tier quite hard and it also provides an Electric-type immunity which would be amazing in this kind of Metagame. Landorus-T also provides a Rock- and Electric-type switch in and can also set up Stealth Rock which hurt the whole tier really really hard. Skarmory also stands out as one of the tier's few reliable Deffogers due to its neutrality to SR.

Questions for the community

- Would you even play this? Is this Metagame concept interesting to you?
- Should Volcarona, Nihilego, Alolan Raichu and other Pokemon become eligible to add more diversity to the tier or is sticking with the official banlist better?
- Is Stealth Rock banworthy?
- Are any of the Pokémon in the 'Potental bans and threats' section banworthy?

Eligible Pokémon

Charizard
Mega Charizard X
Mega Charizard Y
Butterfree
Pidgeotto
Pidgeot
Mega Pidgeot
Fearow
Zubat
Golbat
Ghastly
Haunter
Koffing
Weezing
Scyther
Gyarados
Mega Gyarados
Aerodactyl
Mega Aerodactyl
Articuno
Zapdos
Moltres
Dragonite
Noctowl
Ledyba
Ledian
Crobat
Togetic
Xatu
Hoppip
Skiploom
Jumpluff
Yanma
Misdreavus
Unown
Gligar
Mantine
Skarmory
Lugia (banned!)
Ho-oh (banned!)
Beautifly
Swellow
Wingull
Pelipper
Masquerain
Ninjask
Vibrava
Flygon
Swablu
Altaria
Mega Altaria
Lunatone
Solrock
Baltoy
Claydol
Duskull
Tropius
Chimecho
Salamence
Mega Salamence (banned!)
Latias
Latios
Rayquaza (banned!)
Mega Rayquaza (banned!)
Staravia
Staraptor
Mothim
Combee
Vespiqueen
Drifloon
Drifblim
Mismagius
Honchkrow
Chingling
Bronzor (requires Levitate)
Bronzong (requires Levitate)
Carnivine
Mantyke
Togekiss
Yanmega
Gliscor
Rotom
Uxie
Mesprit
Azelf
Crescelia
Tranquill
Unfezant
Woobat
Swoobat
Sigilyph
Archeops
Swanna
Emolga
Tynamo
Eelektrik
Eelektross
Cryogonal
Braviary
Mandibuzz
Hydreigon
Tornadus
Thundurus
Landorus
Fletchinder
Talonflame
Vivillon
Noibat
Noivern
Yveltal
Rowlet
Dartrix
Trumbeak
Toucannon
Vikavolt
Oricorio
Minior
Celesteela

In-eligible Moves

Body Slam
Bulldoze
Dig
Dive
Earth Power
Earthquake
Electric Terrain
Fire Pledge
Fissure
Flying Press
Frenzy Plant
Geomancy
Grass Knot
Grass Pledge
Grassy Terrain
Gravity
Heavy Slam
Ingrain
Land's Wrath
Magnitude
Mat Block
Misty Terrain
Mud Sport
Muddy Water
Psychic Terrain
Rototiller
Seismic Toss
Shore Up
Slam
Smack Down
Spikes
Stomp
Substitute
Surf
Toxic Spikes
Water Pledge
Water Sport

I remember when this was a ladder in early gen 6. I used to dominate with Mega Gyarados, as most of it's weaknesses won't be used in Sky Battles (Bug, Grass and Fighting). Skarmory covers the Fairy Weakness and Landorus covers the Electric weakness of both. Here's a core for a teambuild:

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Stone Edge

The mega in the group. Able to get round most of it's weaknesses due to it's typing in sky battles. It's hard walled by Skarmory though, which is a little unfortunate...

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 24 SpD / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn
- Psychic / Filler

The Stealth Rocker of the group. It's able to tank hits thanks to intimidate, and can pivot out with U-Turn.

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic
- Counter

Considering Stealth Rocks are going to be in almost every team, Skarmory is a natural pick. With a neutrality to SR and the ability to defog them away.

 

[AquaticPanic]

While it was playable in Gen 6 I do remember it doing very... Well, just not recieving much attention at all. You could try re-submitting it but I think it'd die pretty quickly.

 

[Ludicrousity]

Oh, I wasn't even aware that it was a thing gen 6. Was it like an OM as well? If it was then I'd have to ask permission to the former leader of it, right? But for sure, Mega Gyara looks pretty threatening tbh. Btw any reason for Psychic on Lando-T? Am I missing something you're trying to lure? Stone Edge is probably better isn't it?

true. It was originally Earthhquake, and idk why I changed it to Psychic

 

[Yahooboo]

true. It was originally Earthhquake, and idk why I changed it to Psychic

probably because almost all the mons in sky battles are flying types?

 

[Nospho Dhemmos]

Sky Battle

Metagame premise

Plain and simple, only Pokémon avaiable in X and Y's Sky Battles are allowed here, Ubers are also banned as Sky Battles would be OU based. Certain Moves are also not allowed, just like in the in game counterpart.

Potential bans and threats

Zapdos looks really good, walling most of the tier and hitting most Pokémon Super Effectively, Thundurus-T is also great because it hits most of the tier quite hard and it also provides an Electric-type immunity which would be amazing in this kind of Metagame. Landorus-T also provides a Rock- and Electric-type switch in and can also set up Stealth Rock which hurt the whole tier really really hard. Skarmory also stands out as one of the tier's few reliable Deffogers due to its neutrality to SR.

Questions for the community

- Would you even play this? Is this Metagame concept interesting to you?
- Should Volcarona, Nihilego, Alolan Raichu and other Pokemon become eligible to add more diversity to the tier or is sticking with the official banlist better?
- Is Stealth Rock banworthy?
- Are any of the Pokémon in the 'Potental bans and threats' section banworthy?

Eligible Pokémon

Charizard
Mega Charizard X
Mega Charizard Y
Butterfree
Pidgeotto
Pidgeot
Mega Pidgeot
Fearow
Zubat
Golbat
Ghastly
Haunter
Koffing
Weezing
Scyther
Gyarados
Mega Gyarados
Aerodactyl
Mega Aerodactyl
Articuno
Zapdos
Moltres
Dragonite
Noctowl
Ledyba
Ledian
Crobat
Togetic
Xatu
Hoppip
Skiploom
Jumpluff
Yanma
Misdreavus
Unown
Gligar
Mantine
Skarmory
Lugia (banned!)
Ho-oh (banned!)
Beautifly
Swellow
Wingull
Pelipper
Masquerain
Ninjask
Vibrava
Flygon
Swablu
Altaria
Mega Altaria
Lunatone
Solrock
Baltoy
Claydol
Duskull
Tropius
Chimecho
Salamence
Mega Salamence (banned!)
Latias
Latios
Rayquaza (banned!)
Mega Rayquaza (banned!)
Staravia
Staraptor
Mothim
Combee
Vespiqueen
Drifloon
Drifblim
Mismagius
Honchkrow
Chingling
Bronzor (requires Levitate)
Bronzong (requires Levitate)
Carnivine
Mantyke
Togekiss
Yanmega
Gliscor
Rotom
Uxie
Mesprit
Azelf
Crescelia
Tranquill
Unfezant
Woobat
Swoobat
Sigilyph
Archeops
Swanna
Emolga
Tynamo
Eelektrik
Eelektross
Cryogonal
Braviary
Mandibuzz
Hydreigon
Tornadus
Thundurus
Landorus
Fletchinder
Talonflame
Vivillon
Noibat
Noivern
Yveltal (banned!)
Rowlet
Dartrix
Trumbeak
Toucannon
Vikavolt
Oricorio
Minior
Celesteela

In-eligible Moves

Body Slam
Bulldoze
Dig
Dive
Earth Power
Earthquake
Electric Terrain
Fire Pledge
Fissure
Flying Press
Frenzy Plant
Geomancy
Grass Knot
Grass Pledge
Grassy Terrain
Gravity
Heavy Slam
Ingrain
Land's Wrath
Magnitude
Mat Block
Misty Terrain
Mud Sport
Muddy Water
Psychic Terrain
Rototiller
Seismic Toss
Shore Up
Slam
Smack Down
Spikes
Stomp
Substitute
Surf
Toxic Spikes
Water Pledge
Water Sport

One way to add more variety for Sky Battles would allowing pokemon that can learn Magnet Rise, Telekinesis, or Fly. This would allow many Electric, Steel, Psychic and Ghost Pokémon. Of course, there would be some weird cases like allowing Aggron, Aurorus and Steelix, but would be worth for the sake of variety. Of course, these pokemon should be under the effects of Magnet Rise/Telekinesis/Levitate(for Fly, since we don't want a almost invicible Golurk). Another way is looking if the sprite is levitating or the lore says it can fly. The dex for both Garchomp and Tapu Koko mentions flying, however, Garchomp would be unable to use Earthquake while Koko's Terrain would be useless. This variety would make Stealth Rock less powerful, but not irrelevant obviously. I would also allow A-Exeggutor just for the giggles.

Another cool thing to have would be simply dont banning moves, but instead making them useless for ungrounded Pokémon. This way, if you wanna use earthquake or benifit from terrain, you need Gravity or Smack Down (Except for Exeggutor, who is there for the giggles).

Only issues with my suggestions is that it would make some Pokémon better (Steel and Electric losing their weakness) and the fact that it works different from the Actual Sky Battles (Well, not really a problem here, its mostly because what was suggested was the actual mode in the game, its not like this couldn't be its own thing), this is more like "Ungrounded Battles" really.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

One way to add more variety for Sky Battles would allowing pokemon that can learn Magnet Rise, Telekinesis, or Fly. This would allow many Electric, Steel, Psychic and Ghost Pokémon. Of course, there would be some weird cases like allowing Aggron, Aurorus and Steelix, but would be worth for the sake of variety. Of course, these pokemon should be under the effects of Magnet Rise/Telekinesis/Levitate(for Fly, since we don't want a almost invicible Golurk). Another way is looking if the sprite is levitating or the lore says it can fly. The dex for both Garchomp and Tapu Koko mentions flying, however, Garchomp would be unable to use Earthquake while Koko's Terrain would be useless. This variety would make Stealth Rock less powerful, but not irrelevant obviously. I would also allow A-Exeggutor just for the giggles.

Another cool thing to have would be simply dont banning moves, but instead making them useless for ungrounded Pokémon. This way, if you wanna use earthquake or benifit from terrain, you need Gravity or Smack Down (Except for Exeggutor, who is there for the giggles).

Only issues with my suggestions is that it would make some Pokémon better (Steel and Electric losing their weakness) and the fact that it works different from the Actual Sky Battles (Well, not really a problem here, its mostly because what was suggested was the actual mode in the game, its not like this couldn't be its own thing), this is more like "Ungrounded Battles" really.

Sky battles takes its mechanics directly from the in game format of the same name. Changing basic mechanics is probably a bad idea.

 

[Summonerrisa4o1]

One way to add more variety for Sky Battles would allowing pokemon that can learn Magnet Rise, Telekinesis, or Fly. This would allow many Electric, Steel, Psychic and Ghost Pokémon. Of course, there would be some weird cases like allowing Aggron, Aurorus and Steelix, but would be worth for the sake of variety. Of course, these pokemon should be under the effects of Magnet Rise/Telekinesis/Levitate(for Fly, since we don't want a almost invicible Golurk). Another way is looking if the sprite is levitating or the lore says it can fly. The dex for both Garchomp and Tapu Koko mentions flying, however, Garchomp would be unable to use Earthquake while Koko's Terrain would be useless. This variety would make Stealth Rock less powerful, but not irrelevant obviously. I would also allow A-Exeggutor just for the giggles.

Another cool thing to have would be simply dont banning moves, but instead making them useless for ungrounded Pokémon. This way, if you wanna use earthquake or benifit from terrain, you need Gravity or Smack Down (Except for Exeggutor, who is there for the giggles).

Only issues with my suggestions is that it would make some Pokémon better (Steel and Electric losing their weakness) and the fact that it works different from the Actual Sky Battles (Well, not really a problem here, its mostly because what was suggested was the actual mode in the game, its not like this couldn't be its own thing), this is more like "Ungrounded Battles" really.

There are a fair number of pokemon(including genesect and pikachu) who learn fly but logically can't.
Most of the pokemon who have the necessary appendages for flying are already flying- type.

 

[Nospho Dhemmos]

Sky battles takes its mechanics directly from the in game format of the same name. Changing basic mechanics is probably a bad idea.

Well yes, i did list as a issue that it would work way different from the actual sky battles. I mostly suggested the mechanic change to make it more interesting, since as said before, Sky Battles did not get much attention in gen 6. Of course, we can keep the original intention of just having the original with minor tweaks, but my suggestion adds more options.

There are a fair number of pokemon(including genesect and pikachu) who learn fly but logically can't.
Most of the pokemon who have the necessary appendages for flying are already flying- type.

Again, i did mention this as a issue, giving the example of Aggron and Aurorus. Also, Genesect can indeed fly, with his High Speed Flight Form from Adventures, he is a semi-artificial pokémon after all. The point is that Sky Battles are very limiting as is, so we would need some extra rule if we want to add variety.
Also, for you second point, "Most" does not mean "a 100%", Volcarona, Venomoth and Dustox have wings but were excluded, and in Dustox case, we have his counterpart allowed. Even without my suggestions these should be allowed (Venomoth and Dustox would not be worth using, but no reason to ban them).

On a side note, ignoring my suggestions, i do think Stealth Rock should be banned. It would eliminate the vast majority of flying types and would make the meta filled with only Levitate Pokémon (which would basically be the same as having most of the team without a ability, aside the flyers that dont mind Stealth Rock).

 

[Summonerrisa4o1]

If we simply included every pokemon capable of flying, not just those who are flying type, we'd have a pet mod, not sky battles.
It probably wouldn't be much of a pet mod anyway, as we'd be doing regular pokemon with an arbitrary and subjective banlist.
It would be like banning all pokemon who are incapable of walking or sneezing.

 

[Yahooboo]

If we simply included every pokemon capable of flying, not just those who are flying type, we'd have a pet mod, not sky battles.
It probably wouldn't be much of a pet mod anyway, as we'd be doing regular pokemon with an arbitrary and subjective banlist.
It would be like banning all pokemon who are incapable of walking or sneezing.

'All Pokemon that can learn Fly' isn't arbitrary, though.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Metagame premise: When you defeat your opponent's pokemon they join your team for the rest of the battle!
Potential bans and threats:
Similar to OU. Beat Up may be stronger than in standard, but I doubt op, because you'd have to have the numerical advantage for it to do significant damage anyway.

Stall may also be better thanks to it's reliance on not losing team members.

Questions for the community:
So this tier could potentially have really, really long battles (especially since Stall might be better than HO thanks to less likelihood of losing mons), which nobody wants except maybe those crazy stall people and would seriously discourage interest in the tier. To avoid this I was thinking Somme sort of penalty would be necessary when mons switch teams. I had three ideas.

• Mons come back with half health and 5 PP per move a la imposter.
• Mons lose ten (or some other number) levels every time they switch teams.
• Mons can only switch once or twice before fainting normally. (To opp or to opp and back)

I don't feel like any of these is perfect so I want to know what you think about them / other options.

...
Btw this is possible now (Or should be I'm no coder) thanks to PS' new ability to host 24 mon teams in Custom Battle. I have a replay but it doesn't look like much... try it out yourself if you need more proof. Apparently replays can't handle more than 6 mons yet.

I'm willing to address any questions or concerns so hit me with 'em :)

Sorry about poor formatting I'm on mobile. Might fix it up when I get back on comp.

Edit: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7customgame-630278676 7 mon replay schmanx tyler and racool

 

[Yveltal for PU]

Matches are too long, gg.

 

[Akumeoy]

Perhaps institute some method of not letting mons join the opposing team. Like... if they use a suicide move (Final Gamit, Explosion, etc.) or are otherwise KO'd by their own move (from Ghost-type Curse, recoil damage, Rocky Helmet), they don't join the other team. Or, alternatively, mons will only join the opposing team if they're KO'd by a STAB attack.

Something like this would institute a layer of strategy beyond "don't let your mons faint" and give players a strong incentive to play offensively, limiting game length to something manageable.

 

[lydian]

Metagame premise: When you defeat your opponent's pokemon they join your team for the rest of the battle!
Potential bans and threats:
Similar to OU. Beat Up may be stronger than in standard, but I doubt op, because you'd have to have the numerical advantage for it to do significant damage anyway.

Stall may also be better thanks to it's reliance on not losing team members.

Questions for the community:
So this tier could potentially have really, really long battles (especially since Stall might be better than HO thanks to less likelihood of losing mons), which nobody wants except maybe those crazy stall people and would seriously discourage interest in the tier. To avoid this I was thinking Somme sort of penalty would be necessary when mons switch teams. I had three ideas.

• Mons come back with half health and 5 PP per move a la imposter.
• Mons lose ten (or some other number) levels every time they switch teams.
• Mons can only switch once or twice before fainting normally. (To opp or to opp and back)

I don't feel like any of these is perfect so I want to know what you think about them / other options.

...
Btw this is possible now (Or should be I'm no coder) thanks to PS' new ability to host 24 mon teams in Custom Battle. I have a replay but it doesn't look like much... try it out yourself if you need more proof. Apparently replays can't handle more than 6 mons yet.

I'm willing to address any questions or concerns so hit me with 'em :)

Sorry about poor formatting I'm on mobile. Might fix it up when I get back on comp.

Edit: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7customgame-630278676 7 mon replay schmanx tyler and racool

To make things quick I thing it'd be better to allow a mon only to switch teams once, so say your Lele faints, it goes to the opponent's team, then once you KO it is finally out of the game. Overall tho, it's a cool concept, but I'm not sure if it'll be fun enough to play.

 

[Xfing]

I haven't been posting much, so I don't know if this has been tried up to now, but what do you think about holding metas that restrict you to Pokemon from say only gen 1, gens 1-2, 1-3 etc, all the while including all the most recent moves, type relationships items and other mechanics? If anything, it would be interesting from a research perspective, to find out how these new additions to the games would change old generation metas if your mon choices were restricted only to those generations.

 

[Nospho Dhemmos]

Metagame premise: When you defeat your opponent's pokemon they join your team for the rest of the battle!
Potential bans and threats:
Similar to OU. Beat Up may be stronger than in standard, but I doubt op, because you'd have to have the numerical advantage for it to do significant damage anyway.

Stall may also be better thanks to it's reliance on not losing team members.

Questions for the community:
So this tier could potentially have really, really long battles (especially since Stall might be better than HO thanks to less likelihood of losing mons), which nobody wants except maybe those crazy stall people and would seriously discourage interest in the tier. To avoid this I was thinking Somme sort of penalty would be necessary when mons switch teams. I had three ideas.

• Mons come back with half health and 5 PP per move a la imposter.
• Mons lose ten (or some other number) levels every time they switch teams.
• Mons can only switch once or twice before fainting normally. (To opp or to opp and back)

I don't feel like any of these is perfect so I want to know what you think about them / other options.

...
Btw this is possible now (Or should be I'm no coder) thanks to PS' new ability to host 24 mon teams in Custom Battle. I have a replay but it doesn't look like much... try it out yourself if you need more proof. Apparently replays can't handle more than 6 mons yet.

I'm willing to address any questions or concerns so hit me with 'em :)

Sorry about poor formatting I'm on mobile. Might fix it up when I get back on comp.

Edit: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7customgame-630278676 7 mon replay schmanx tyler and racool

There is a fourth option: Less pokemon at the start of battle. Though i fear having only 3 or 4 might limit teambuilding too much.
I do like Akumeoy's idea of avoiding the switch by suicide. In fact, without it Explosion would be more dangerous, imagine failing to faint someone and having to worry about it being used against you (well, a single move shouldnt dictate the choice of mechanic, but i find it to be a cool thing).

Edit: Just realized, Final Gambit and Explosion would be literally a 1:1 trade without that rule in most cases, since they can easily kill, and the opponent would use it again too. This could potentially make matches really long if they can switch more than one time. So it is better to either have no switching on suicide moves or limit the times a pokemon can change teams.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Matches are too long, gg.

Do you have anything to say that could help fix this problem? I did mention that I was looking to fix it if possible...

Also I do prefer constructive criticism if possible. :/

Perhaps institute some method of not letting mons join the opposing team. Like... if they use a suicide move (Final Gamit, Explosion, etc.) or are otherwise KO'd by their own move (from Ghost-type Curse, recoil damage, Rocky Helmet), they don't join the other team. Or, alternatively, mons will only join the opposing team if they're KO'd by a STAB attack.

Something like this would institute a layer of strategy beyond "don't let your mons faint" and give players a strong incentive to play offensively, limiting game length to something manageable.

I like your idea of having some method of preventing mons from joining the other team, but I don't think the options you mentioned would work very well.

To explain further: While I agree with you and Nospho Dhemmos that suicide moves and self-damage shouldn't swap mons I don't think that's a solution to the big problem of long battles.

Only STAB moves feels extremely arbitrary and doesn't really have much to do with the basic premise of the metagame.

I like this line of thought but I don't think it's quite there.

To make things quick I thing it'd be better to allow a mon only to switch teams once, so say your Lele faints, it goes to the opponent's team, then once you KO it is finally out of the game. Overall tho, it's a cool concept, but I'm not sure if it'll be fun enough to play.

What worries me is that eventually players might end up with more of the other person's team than theirs and the less talented team builder might win just because of that. This may be the solution though and I'll keep it in mind.

Thanks everyone who had responded so far! ^_^

 

[lydian]

What worries me is that eventually players might end up with more of the other person's team than theirs and the less talented team builder might win just because of that. This may be the solution though and I'll keep it in mind.

Thanks everyone who had responded so far! ^_^

Yeah, that was exactly why I didnt like it so much, because say you indeed decide to do one team swap and it will happen exactly what you said, it dicourages teambuilding, but if you limit it to two, then the battles would take like unbearbly even longer. I really don't know an option to fix this though, but tbh, even if you do limit it to more then one it still disconcourages teambuilding the same way, tho like in smaller proportions.

 

[Yveltal for PU]

Well I say the team switch only occurs once, and after that, they dead for reals.

 

[The Immortal]

I haven't been posting much, so I don't know if this has been tried up to now, but what do you think about holding metas that restrict you to Pokemon from say only gen 1, gens 1-2, 1-3 etc, all the while including all the most recent moves, type relationships items and other mechanics? If anything, it would be interesting from a research perspective, to find out how these new additions to the games would change old generation metas if your mon choices were restricted only to those generations.

I moved your post here as it is the appropriate thread.

 

[SadisticMystic]

You could have some useless level 1 Steel-type, deliberately lead with it for the purpose of getting it killed off and defecting (probably at least give it Toxic in case they let it stick around for a while), and go to a Red Card Magnet Puller (or even Alola Golem with Roar) in the hope of forcing out your "double agent" so that you trap the opponent with a completely useless Pokemon while you set up to the maximum. Shades of the old BH Imposter trap there.

 

[willdbeast]

Metagame premise: When you defeat your opponent's pokemon they join your team for the rest of the battle!
Potential bans and threats:
Similar to OU. Beat Up may be stronger than in standard, but I doubt op, because you'd have to have the numerical advantage for it to do significant damage anyway.

Stall may also be better thanks to it's reliance on not losing team members.

Questions for the community:
So this tier could potentially have really, really long battles (especially since Stall might be better than HO thanks to less likelihood of losing mons), which nobody wants except maybe those crazy stall people and would seriously discourage interest in the tier. To avoid this I was thinking Somme sort of penalty would be necessary when mons switch teams. I had three ideas.

• Mons come back with half health and 5 PP per move a la imposter.
• Mons lose ten (or some other number) levels every time they switch teams.
• Mons can only switch once or twice before fainting normally. (To opp or to opp and back)

I don't feel like any of these is perfect so I want to know what you think about them / other options.

...
Btw this is possible now (Or should be I'm no coder) thanks to PS' new ability to host 24 mon teams in Custom Battle. I have a replay but it doesn't look like much... try it out yourself if you need more proof. Apparently replays can't handle more than 6 mons yet.

I'm willing to address any questions or concerns so hit me with 'em :)

Sorry about poor formatting I'm on mobile. Might fix it up when I get back on comp.

Edit: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7customgame-630278676 7 mon replay schmanx tyler and racool

If you want to limit the course of the game to closer to its natural length you could make it so a fainted Pokémon as resurrected in the same state as it was before the killing move/event happened. For example if I Pokémon is at 75HP with no PP left and then dies to the next hit, it would be resurrected with 75HP and no PP. This would mean at least things will get worn down unless you OHKO everything and will gradually lose pp which limits the game significantly. Also it does give an inventive to kill things with a more convincing killing blow.
(Probably not carrying on status though, that seems a bit too much especially if they die to burn damage or something.)

 

[pazza]

• Metagame premise. Its BH but with ts boosts.

• Potential bans and threats. Slacking with a whopping 910 BST! 200 Attack and amazing speed will be hard to stop if u don't have imposers! Regigas is pretty much the same as Slaking.
  https://pokemonshowdown.com/dex/pokemon/regigigas

• 
  Question for the community.What are some ban ideas you think about?How should i improve it?

 

[willdbeast]

• Metagame premise. Its BH but with ts boosts.

• Potential bans and threats. Slacking with a whopping 910 BST! 200 Attack and amazing speed will be hard to stop if u don't have imposers! Regigas is pretty much the same as Slaking.

• 
  Question for the community.What are some ban ideas you think about?How should i improve it?

Tier shift BH is already playable on some side server btw (I think something like piccolo's server or something)

Edit: when I played it I can't remember seeing gigas or Slaking so presumably they're banned which would make sense.

Some things like Registeel and Mega Audino get a significant increase in bulk which lets them carry out the same roles but better. Gastrodon gets quite impressive bulk as do some things like Regirock (120/240/140!). Offensively there's not much that really stands out more than the common BH threats but rampardos can be a good wall breaker with Head Smash and Archeops looks threatening. Guzzlord is bulkier and silvally is a better arceus.