It should make the unnerve user ignore the immunities, since theyre technically using the berry's effect to get an immunity, and the description for unnerve is "while this pokemon is active, it prevents opposing pokemon from using their berries"
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Choice items.
Cursed Body seems strong.
Speed Boost + Baton Pass, since priority will be rare.
Forewarn would be situational.
Intimidate might be nerfed, since there are more switches?
the only way speed boost + baton pass does anything is in the case of a flinch or status because your only option is to bp which will happen before you get your speed boost.
spite and pressure both seem like they could be annoying
the hazard battle on this mode would be really interesting to see as well
I saw intimidate more like a phaze, or just a pression for the opponent to switch. Cursed body will definitively be strong, I will need to see that in action
Speed Boost + BP can make one of your slower offensive pokemon more dangerous, sometimes almost invicible
And for the hazards, I feel like each team should need to run at least one hazard control, because if you can't do anything about it you have a direct handicap
I would not play this ever. OMs that restrict generally don't do well - if you look at all the more sucessful OMs like STABmons, AAA etc. the general idea is that they give your Pokemon more options, not less (monotype notwithstanding).
Might as well pitch somethin:
(Edit: Urkerab informed me that a similar concept meta exists, or existed at one point, called Hawluchange, though the mechanics of this one differ pretty substantially in a couple ways I'll explain at the bottom of this post)
Two-for-One
Metagame premise:
Every pokemon's first move gains a secondary typing, like with Flying Press. This type would be either the pokemon's primary type, or their secondary type if shiny. Unlike flying press, this move will automatically receive a STAB bonus regardless of what the moves original type may have been, except in cases in which the move would have already received STAB, so no 2.25x STAB modification or whatever.
This allows something like Kyurem-B or Kartana access to more powerful STAB's, with a few drawbacks, while granting other mons the ability to add some extra coverage to their moveset while retaining STAB coverage, or the ability to add a move that's 4x (or higher) super effective against mons that may otherwise be too beefy for them to break.
Eg. An adamant Arcanine's Wild Charge does roughly 50% to a (lol) adamant Celesteela with 228/116 Defensive investment, in this meta, with Wild Charge in the first slot, the added fire typing and STAB means it deals 133-157%, not an insignificant difference. I know that Celesteela set is goofy and that's not Arcanine's best option anyway, but just an example.
Similarly, Nidoking, by running Thunderbolt in it's first slot and Ground as it's additional typing, is able to decimate specially defensive toxapex variants who would previously be able to survive an Earth Power and switch out to live another day.
Potential bans and threats:
Standard OU banlist, otherwise nothing sticks out as immediately banworthy to me, but I could be underthinking.
Pokemon with powerful STAB types that compliment other types well will rule the roost here, while moves like extremespeed and boomburst get a new lease on life with powerful new STAB users.
Alolan-marowak now has a powerful fire STAB that doesn't require recoil in Bonemerang+Fire, with the added benefit of being a fire move that kills Heatran. While Maro-A may still want to run standard Flare Blitz or Earthquake, to deal with Celesteela or Toxapex respectively, the addition of an incredibly spammable STAB move is nothing to scoff at.
Two-for-One blesses Kyurem-B with Return+Dragon, secondary dragon typing is an incredible gift due to secondary typing not calculating immunities, in conjunction with now having a powerful dragon STAB not called Outrage. While packing more resistances than a typical dragon STAB would, Kyurem no longer has to run things like Iron Head to deal with fairies, and can deal with Return+Dragon's resistances (Rock and Steel) easily by packing Earth Power.
While Fly is typically considered a filler move on Landorus-T, it's a bit more viable when you realize that with an added Ground type, it's a completely unresisted move off of base 145 attack. Alternatively, Earthquake+Flying is unresisted by all but other flying types, making EQ+Flying along with Stone Edge an extremely potent attacking combination. (Gliscor can also make use of this with Acrobatics, though I'm not sure how effective it would end up being)
Questions for the community:
Would you play? Do any of the mechanics seem unnecessary or confusing? Are there any tools that could be developed that would help you want to play this meta? Are there any threats that stick out as being overpowered to you?
QA:
How do these moves respond to type-based abilities:
Abilities like Flash Fire, Pixilate, Water Absorb etc. will only respond to a moves primary typing. This means that if something like Marowak-Alola with a Ground/Fire Bonemerang used the move against Heatran, Flash Fire would not trigger. The downside of this being that an Araquanid with normal/water Return won't be seeing that Water Bubble boost.
What about boosts from weather/terrains:
Same as abilities, only respond to primary typing. This means that Tapu-koko with normal/electric Return won't be gaining an electric Terrain boost.
How do immunities work?
Immunities also only respond to the primary typing of a move. If the secondary type of a move is one that the defending pokemon would typically be immune to, the damage modifier is 1x.
Meaning Salandit using Flamethrower with added poison typing will be supereffective against a steel type pokemon, but Salandit using Sludge Wave with an added fire typing will remain ineffective.
Can moves be 8x super effective?
Moves can be as strong 16x super effective and as weak as 0.0625x not very effective
A move combo wherein one move is 2x super effective and another is 4x super effective (Eg. A Water/Fighting move against a Rock/Steel type) will lead to the move being 8x super effective, a move where both are 4x will lead to 16x. Etc. Just multiple the first types damage modifier by the second types and you'll have your answer.
Here's a handy spreadsheet to help you figure out the effectiveness of different multitype move combinations. It even has a calculator for figuring out effectiveness against dual-type'd mons. Just change the info in the 'Move Type 1' and 'Move Type 2' areas to choose your moves type and change the info in 'Defender Type 1' and 'Defender Type 2' to figure out the effectiveness against the mon you're targeting.
Please select Data > Filter Views > Create New Temporary Filter View from the menu to avoid clashing with other people who are attempting to use the spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tjgjfpJEZFqM-FqjhSz14LwJDGGlrUTW_do-pzDjbXo/edit#gid=0
Note: I'm not sure if it's an error, but if you write 'Ground/Ground' or any combination of two of the same type, the calculator will double up that types effectiveness, though only on certain types as I was in the middle of removing that until I realized that might just be how the actual mechanics would work. For the moment, I would just avoid trying to use the calculator for that, as it's pretty easy to figure out on your own.
(Edit: Urkerab informed me that a similar concept meta exists, or existed at one point, called Hawluchange, though the mechanics of this one differ pretty substantially in a couple ways I'll explain at the bottom of this post)
Two-for-One
Metagame premise:
Every pokemon's first move gains a secondary typing, like with Flying Press. This type would be either the pokemon's primary type, or their secondary type if shiny. Unlike flying press, this move will automatically receive a STAB bonus regardless of what the moves original type may have been, except in cases in which the move would have already received STAB, so no 2.25x STAB modification or whatever.
idk Javascript so this might fail horribly but
if ((moveSlot == 1) && (! == move.hasSTAB))
{baseDamage = this.modify(baseDamage, move.stab || 1.5)}
if ((moveSlot == 1) && (! == move.hasSTAB))
{baseDamage = this.modify(baseDamage, move.stab || 1.5)}
This allows something like Kyurem-B or Kartana access to more powerful STAB's, with a few drawbacks, while granting other mons the ability to add some extra coverage to their moveset while retaining STAB coverage, or the ability to add a move that's 4x (or higher) super effective against mons that may otherwise be too beefy for them to break.
Eg. An adamant Arcanine's Wild Charge does roughly 50% to a (lol) adamant Celesteela with 228/116 Defensive investment, in this meta, with Wild Charge in the first slot, the added fire typing and STAB means it deals 133-157%, not an insignificant difference. I know that Celesteela set is goofy and that's not Arcanine's best option anyway, but just an example.
Similarly, Nidoking, by running Thunderbolt in it's first slot and Ground as it's additional typing, is able to decimate specially defensive toxapex variants who would previously be able to survive an Earth Power and switch out to live another day.
Potential bans and threats:
Standard OU banlist, otherwise nothing sticks out as immediately banworthy to me, but I could be underthinking.
Pokemon with powerful STAB types that compliment other types well will rule the roost here, while moves like extremespeed and boomburst get a new lease on life with powerful new STAB users.
Alolan-marowak now has a powerful fire STAB that doesn't require recoil in Bonemerang+Fire, with the added benefit of being a fire move that kills Heatran. While Maro-A may still want to run standard Flare Blitz or Earthquake, to deal with Celesteela or Toxapex respectively, the addition of an incredibly spammable STAB move is nothing to scoff at.
Two-for-One blesses Kyurem-B with Return+Dragon, secondary dragon typing is an incredible gift due to secondary typing not calculating immunities, in conjunction with now having a powerful dragon STAB not called Outrage. While packing more resistances than a typical dragon STAB would, Kyurem no longer has to run things like Iron Head to deal with fairies, and can deal with Return+Dragon's resistances (Rock and Steel) easily by packing Earth Power.
While Fly is typically considered a filler move on Landorus-T, it's a bit more viable when you realize that with an added Ground type, it's a completely unresisted move off of base 145 attack. Alternatively, Earthquake+Flying is unresisted by all but other flying types, making EQ+Flying along with Stone Edge an extremely potent attacking combination. (Gliscor can also make use of this with Acrobatics, though I'm not sure how effective it would end up being)
Questions for the community:
Would you play? Do any of the mechanics seem unnecessary or confusing? Are there any tools that could be developed that would help you want to play this meta? Are there any threats that stick out as being overpowered to you?
QA:
How do these moves respond to type-based abilities:
Abilities like Flash Fire, Pixilate, Water Absorb etc. will only respond to a moves primary typing. This means that if something like Marowak-Alola with a Ground/Fire Bonemerang used the move against Heatran, Flash Fire would not trigger. The downside of this being that an Araquanid with normal/water Return won't be seeing that Water Bubble boost.
What about boosts from weather/terrains:
Same as abilities, only respond to primary typing. This means that Tapu-koko with normal/electric Return won't be gaining an electric Terrain boost.
How do immunities work?
Immunities also only respond to the primary typing of a move. If the secondary type of a move is one that the defending pokemon would typically be immune to, the damage modifier is 1x.
Meaning Salandit using Flamethrower with added poison typing will be supereffective against a steel type pokemon, but Salandit using Sludge Wave with an added fire typing will remain ineffective.
Can moves be 8x super effective?
Moves can be as strong 16x super effective and as weak as 0.0625x not very effective
A move combo wherein one move is 2x super effective and another is 4x super effective (Eg. A Water/Fighting move against a Rock/Steel type) will lead to the move being 8x super effective, a move where both are 4x will lead to 16x. Etc. Just multiple the first types damage modifier by the second types and you'll have your answer.
Here's a handy spreadsheet to help you figure out the effectiveness of different multitype move combinations. It even has a calculator for figuring out effectiveness against dual-type'd mons. Just change the info in the 'Move Type 1' and 'Move Type 2' areas to choose your moves type and change the info in 'Defender Type 1' and 'Defender Type 2' to figure out the effectiveness against the mon you're targeting.
Please select Data > Filter Views > Create New Temporary Filter View from the menu to avoid clashing with other people who are attempting to use the spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tjgjfpJEZFqM-FqjhSz14LwJDGGlrUTW_do-pzDjbXo/edit#gid=0
Note: I'm not sure if it's an error, but if you write 'Ground/Ground' or any combination of two of the same type, the calculator will double up that types effectiveness, though only on certain types as I was in the middle of removing that until I realized that might just be how the actual mechanics would work. For the moment, I would just avoid trying to use the calculator for that, as it's pretty easy to figure out on your own.
In Hawluchange, each pokemon received their own variant of the move Flying Press that was always physical and would change type based on the pokemon's type, similar to what happens here. The key difference is that in Hawluchange, it copied the users type exactly, no matter if they were monotype or not.
Here, all moves are granted this potential, and the number of potential combinations with each pokemon is greatly increased. Garchomp could use a Steel/Dragon Iron Head, or Rock/Ground Stone Edge to circumvent common immunities to it's STAB moves, rather than being forced to run a 100 BP Dragon/Ground move, which isn't necessarily better than Earthquake even.
Also, with the addition of STAB to the first moveslot, things like Jirachi running STAB Hidden Power Ice(+Psychic) or Ice Punch(+Psychic) allow it to deal with Landorus-T who would otherwise rain on it's parade.
Special attackers are also given a much higher chance at survival as they're able to take advantage of the meta's mechanics, unlike in Hawluchange.
Here, all moves are granted this potential, and the number of potential combinations with each pokemon is greatly increased. Garchomp could use a Steel/Dragon Iron Head, or Rock/Ground Stone Edge to circumvent common immunities to it's STAB moves, rather than being forced to run a 100 BP Dragon/Ground move, which isn't necessarily better than Earthquake even.
Also, with the addition of STAB to the first moveslot, things like Jirachi running STAB Hidden Power Ice(+Psychic) or Ice Punch(+Psychic) allow it to deal with Landorus-T who would otherwise rain on it's parade.
Special attackers are also given a much higher chance at survival as they're able to take advantage of the meta's mechanics, unlike in Hawluchange.
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Don't forget that the effectiveness raises in powers of two. A single weakness causes x2 damage, a double weakness causes x4 damage, a triple weakness (like a Scizor afflicted with Forest's Curse) causes x8 damage and a quadruple weakness would be x16 damage. In your meta, a fire/fighting move would do 8x damage to a Ferrothorn (Grass/Steel), and a ground/fighting move would do 16x damage to a Probopass (Rock/Steel).
Oh, and it is yet another meta where Noivern gets STAB Boomburst :D
I could be wrong but I think Flying Press has weird mechanics regarding how it handles that sort of stuff, so I don't think 16x effectiveness is a thing.
Also yeah, Noivern gets STAB Boomburst, but with the drawback of still not being able to hit ghost types. Likewise, Kyurem-B now gets STAB return, but suffers the same fate, while also no longer hitting rock types for neutral.
I'd like to try and make a spreadsheet that would calculate the effectiveness of different type combo's, but until I know what the exact mechanics of Flying Press' damage calculation are, I'll have to hold off on that.
Also yeah, Noivern gets STAB Boomburst, but with the drawback of still not being able to hit ghost types. Likewise, Kyurem-B now gets STAB return, but suffers the same fate, while also no longer hitting rock types for neutral.
I'd like to try and make a spreadsheet that would calculate the effectiveness of different type combo's, but until I know what the exact mechanics of Flying Press' damage calculation are, I'll have to hold off on that.
As far as I know, there are no weird mechanics involved; it is simply the typing of the attack that prevents 8x or 16x effectiveness in normal circumstances. No type is weak to both Flying and Fighting (and likewise for Flying+Normal and Flying+Electric), which means nothing can take 8x or 16x damage from it (even under the influence of Normalize or Electrify), unless the target has a third type (Weavile, after getting hit by Forest's Curse, is 8x weak to Flying Press). However, Aggron does have a 16x resistance to normalized Flying Press (see replay+calc below), and likewise I'm pretty sure a theoretical Ground+Fighting move would be 16x supereffective against Aggron.
Here's the calc I used:
0 Atk Aggron Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 14-16 (4.9 - 5.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Double-Edge has the same base power as Flying Press would after the Normalize boost. If Aggron only had a 4x resistance to Normalized Flying Press, it would do about 5% damage, but as you can see from this replay, it actually does about 1/4 of that, therefore there actually is a 16x resistance involved.
Good to know, thanks pal.
On that note, immunities do seem to take priority over everything, even if the secondary type is super effective against the opponent.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7customgame-175001
(Hawlucha using electrified Flying Press on Torterra, immune to electric, weak to flying, immunity takes priority)
On that note, immunities do seem to take priority over everything, even if the secondary type is super effective against the opponent.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7customgame-175001
(Hawlucha using electrified Flying Press on Torterra, immune to electric, weak to flying, immunity takes priority)
Stored Trip
Ever wish stat boosts gave more than just stat boosts? Ever wish that a move with an awesome secondary effect could just gain a little more BP (Base Power)?
Well fret not, Stored Trip to the rescue! In this OM, every move that has a regular BP of less than 60 will have it's BP boosted by 20 for each of the users stat boosts. Well it's pretty simple, but if you don't understand, I have a couple of example to help you out.
Example 1: You have a Hawlucha with +2 Atk (Swords Dance) against a Dragonite with +1 Atk +1 Spe (Dragon Dance). Hawlucha still outspeeds Dragonite due to Unburden and it still having no item. Hawlucha uses Acrobatics. Acrobatics' power is first modified due to it having no item. Since it becomes 110 BP, it's BP is no longer boosted. However Hawlucha's Atk has been doubled and is still doing more damage.
Acrobatics still doesn't do so much damage due to Multiscale, but then the opposing Dragonite dished out an Aerial Ace which gets 40 more BP because of Dragonites 2 stat stage boosts because 2 x 20 = 40 and because Aerial Aces BP is not over 60, thus making it a grand total of 100 BP. With this immense power, the Super-Effective STAB hit OHKO's Hawlucha easily.
Example 2: You have a Clefable with +3 Def and +3 SpD (Cosmic Power) that is battling a Suicune with +3 SpA and +3 SpD (Calm Mind). They use HP Fire, whose BP is boosted by 120 because 6 x 20 = 120 and because HPs normal BP is not over 60. Since Clefable has Unaware, it ignores Suicunes boost's in SpA. However it does not ignore the boosts in BP that HP has got with Suicunes +6 positive stat stage boosts. So it is more like Suicune uses an un-boosted 180 BP move on Clefable. Clefable tanks it up pretty nicely because of Cosmic Power and then dishes out a 180 BP super-effective Shock Wave (which ignores Suicunes SpD boosts because of Unaware) and OHKO's it.
Strategy:
The Parental Bond nerf still isn't big enough to stop this. A few Power-Up-Punches into Covet isn't something to scoff at.
Another Pokemon which can easily convert bulk into power. A few Stockpiles and you'll be KOing things with Razor Leaf and Bulldoze xD.
Yes, I know I've mentioned this Pokemon several times now, but think of it this way: if it weren't so great, I wouldn't mention it as much.
Shift Gear + Gear Grind = STAB 220 BP Innately Sturdy/Focus Sash Breaking with +1 Attack. This is probably the most threatening Pokemon in the entire OM and is already banworthy. However I do not know how the meta will progress and what counters will be set up on teams for this. Therefore, I will not ban it yet but if it becomes too OP then it will be banned
Q&A
Q: Wouldn't Stored Power and Power Trip be OP if they get their normal boost and the boost from this OM?
A: No, Stored Power and Power Trip only gain the effect once, like they normally do.
Q: Do abilities/items like Unburden, Pure Power, Huge Power, Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Choice Specs and Assault Vest count as stat boosts.
A: No, they don't.
Q: If I use Power-Up-Punch, will the power be boosted that first time when I used it?
A: No, but it would be boosted the next time it's used.
Banlist/Ruleset
Standard OU Ruleset
Bans: Speed Boost, Any move that boosts more than 2 stats at a time.
What inspired me to make this metagame: I've always liked the moves Stored Power and Power Trip, and I was always thinking of an idea to make moves like Razor Leaf/Water Gun/Ember viable.
Is this playable: Yes, Urkerab (coder who created the ROM server) has been kind enough to code this on the ROM server.
Pokemon Showdown Link: play.pokemonshowdown.com
ROM Server Link: rom.psim.us
Edit: Mega-Kangaskhan is now rebanned, due to a lot of people saying it didn't make sense to unban it.
Edit: Multi-Hit Moves and Priority Moves no longer gain a boost. (due to it being too OP)
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This... is actually good. Wow...Stored TripEver wish stat boosts gave more than just stat boosts? Ever wish that a move with an awesome secondary effect could just gain a little more BP?
Well fret not, Stored Trip to the rescue! In this OM, every move that has a regular BP of less than 60 will have it's BP boosted by 20 for each of the users stat boosts. Well it's pretty simple, but if you don't understand, I have a couple of example to help you out.
Example 1: You have a Hawlucha with +2 Atk (Swords Dance) against a Dragonite with +1 Atk +1 Spe (Dragon Dance). Hawlucha still outspeeds Dragonite due to Unburden and it still having no item. Hawlucha uses Acrobatics. Acrobatics' power is first modified due to it having no item. Since it becomes 110 BP, it's BP is no longer boosted. However Hawlucha's Atk has been doubled and is still doing more damage.
Acrobatics still doesn't do so much damage due to Multiscale, but then the opposing Dragonite dished out an Aerial Ace which gets 40 more BP because of Dragonites 2 stat stage boosts because 2 x 20 = 40 and because Aerial Aces BP is not over 60, thus making it a grand total of 100 BP. With this immense power, the Super-Effective STAB hit OHKO's Hawlucha easily.
Example 2: You have a Clefable with +3 Def and +3 SpD (Cosmic Power) that is battling a Suicune with +3 SpA and +3 SpD (Calm Mind). They use HP Fire, whose BP is boosted by 120 because 6 x 20 = 120 and because HPs normal BP is not over 60. Since Clefable has Unaware, it ignores Suicunes boost's in SpA. However it does not ignore the boosts in BP that HP has got with Suicunes +6 positive stat stage boosts. So it is more like Suicune uses an un-boosted 180 BP move on Clefable. Clefable tanks it up pretty nicely because of Cosmic Power and then dishes out a 180 BP super-effective Shock Wave (which ignores Suicunes SpD boosts because of Unaware) and OHKO's it.
Strategy:
The Parental Bond nerf still isn't big enough to stop this. A few Power-Up-Punches into Covet isn't something to scoff at.
Another Pokemon which can easily convert bulk into power. A few Stockpiles and you'll be KOing things with Razor Leaf and Bulldoze xD.
Yes, I know I've mentioned this Pokemon several times now, but think of it this way: if it weren't so great, I wouldn't mention it as much.
Shift Gear + Gear Grind = STAB 220 BP Innately Sturdy/Focus Sash Breaking with +1 Attack. This is probably the most threatening Pokemon in the entire OM and is already banworthy. However I do not know how the meta will progress and what counters will be set up on teams for this. Therefore, I will not ban it yet but if it becomes too OP then it will be banned
Q&A
Q: Wouldn't Stored Power and Power Trip be OP if they get their normal boost and the boost from this OM?
A: No, Stored Power and Power Trip only gain the effect once, like they normally do.
Q: Do abilities like Unburden, Pure Power or Huge Power count as stat boosts.
A: No, they don't.
Q: If I use Power-Up-Punch, will the power be boosted that first time when I used it?
A: No, but it would be boosted the next time it's used.
Banlist/Ruleset
Standard OU Ruleset
Bans: Technician
Potential Threats: Multi-Hit Moves + Skill Link, Klinklang, Kangaskhan-Mega
Unbans: Kangaskhan-Mega
What inspired me to make this metagame: I've always liked the moves Stored Power and Power Trip, and I was always thinking of an idea to make moves like Razor Leaf/Water Gun/Ember viable.
Is this playable: No, but I will ask Urkerab on ROM to code this.
Pokemon Showdown Link: play.pokemonshowdown.com
ROM Server Link: rom.psim.us
But why is mega kangaskan unbanned?
pazza
Banned deucer.
BETTER BH BANS = wonder guard,ohko moves
actually good om but why " Unbans: Kangaskhan-Mega"?Stored TripEver wish stat boosts gave more than just stat boosts? Ever wish that a move with an awesome secondary effect could just gain a little more BP?
Well fret not, Stored Trip to the rescue! In this OM, every move that has a regular BP of less than 60 will have it's BP boosted by 20 for each of the users stat boosts. Well it's pretty simple, but if you don't understand, I have a couple of example to help you out.
Example 1: You have a Hawlucha with +2 Atk (Swords Dance) against a Dragonite with +1 Atk +1 Spe (Dragon Dance). Hawlucha still outspeeds Dragonite due to Unburden and it still having no item. Hawlucha uses Acrobatics. Acrobatics' power is first modified due to it having no item. Since it becomes 110 BP, it's BP is no longer boosted. However Hawlucha's Atk has been doubled and is still doing more damage.
Acrobatics still doesn't do so much damage due to Multiscale, but then the opposing Dragonite dished out an Aerial Ace which gets 40 more BP because of Dragonites 2 stat stage boosts because 2 x 20 = 40 and because Aerial Aces BP is not over 60, thus making it a grand total of 100 BP. With this immense power, the Super-Effective STAB hit OHKO's Hawlucha easily.
Example 2: You have a Clefable with +3 Def and +3 SpD (Cosmic Power) that is battling a Suicune with +3 SpA and +3 SpD (Calm Mind). They use HP Fire, whose BP is boosted by 120 because 6 x 20 = 120 and because HPs normal BP is not over 60. Since Clefable has Unaware, it ignores Suicunes boost's in SpA. However it does not ignore the boosts in BP that HP has got with Suicunes +6 positive stat stage boosts. So it is more like Suicune uses an un-boosted 180 BP move on Clefable. Clefable tanks it up pretty nicely because of Cosmic Power and then dishes out a 180 BP super-effective Shock Wave (which ignores Suicunes SpD boosts because of Unaware) and OHKO's it.
Strategy:
The Parental Bond nerf still isn't big enough to stop this. A few Power-Up-Punches into Covet isn't something to scoff at.
Another Pokemon which can easily convert bulk into power. A few Stockpiles and you'll be KOing things with Razor Leaf and Bulldoze xD.
Yes, I know I've mentioned this Pokemon several times now, but think of it this way: if it weren't so great, I wouldn't mention it as much.
Shift Gear + Gear Grind = STAB 220 BP Innately Sturdy/Focus Sash Breaking with +1 Attack. This is probably the most threatening Pokemon in the entire OM and is already banworthy. However I do not know how the meta will progress and what counters will be set up on teams for this. Therefore, I will not ban it yet but if it becomes too OP then it will be banned
Q&A
Q: Wouldn't Stored Power and Power Trip be OP if they get their normal boost and the boost from this OM?
A: No, Stored Power and Power Trip only gain the effect once, like they normally do.
Q: Do abilities like Unburden, Pure Power or Huge Power count as stat boosts.
A: No, they don't.
Q: If I use Power-Up-Punch, will the power be boosted that first time when I used it?
A: No, but it would be boosted the next time it's used.
Banlist/Ruleset
Standard OU Ruleset
Bans: Technician
Potential Threats: Multi-Hit Moves + Skill Link, Klinklang, Kangaskhan-Mega
Unbans: Kangaskhan-Mega
What inspired me to make this metagame: I've always liked the moves Stored Power and Power Trip, and I was always thinking of an idea to make moves like Razor Leaf/Water Gun/Ember viable.
Is this playable: No, but I will ask Urkerab on ROM to code this.
Pokemon Showdown Link: play.pokemonshowdown.com
ROM Server Link: rom.psim.us
Just please don't let it interact with Priority Moves. We don't want a 80 BP Bullet Punch from a +2 Scizor. Or maybe...Stored TripEver wish stat boosts gave more than just stat boosts? Ever wish that a move with an awesome secondary effect could just gain a little more BP?
Well fret not, Stored Trip to the rescue! In this OM, every move that has a regular BP of less than 60 will have it's BP boosted by 20 for each of the users stat boosts. Well it's pretty simple, but if you don't understand, I have a couple of example to help you out.
Example 1: You have a Hawlucha with +2 Atk (Swords Dance) against a Dragonite with +1 Atk +1 Spe (Dragon Dance). Hawlucha still outspeeds Dragonite due to Unburden and it still having no item. Hawlucha uses Acrobatics. Acrobatics' power is first modified due to it having no item. Since it becomes 110 BP, it's BP is no longer boosted. However Hawlucha's Atk has been doubled and is still doing more damage.
Acrobatics still doesn't do so much damage due to Multiscale, but then the opposing Dragonite dished out an Aerial Ace which gets 40 more BP because of Dragonites 2 stat stage boosts because 2 x 20 = 40 and because Aerial Aces BP is not over 60, thus making it a grand total of 100 BP. With this immense power, the Super-Effective STAB hit OHKO's Hawlucha easily.
Example 2: You have a Clefable with +3 Def and +3 SpD (Cosmic Power) that is battling a Suicune with +3 SpA and +3 SpD (Calm Mind). They use HP Fire, whose BP is boosted by 120 because 6 x 20 = 120 and because HPs normal BP is not over 60. Since Clefable has Unaware, it ignores Suicunes boost's in SpA. However it does not ignore the boosts in BP that HP has got with Suicunes +6 positive stat stage boosts. So it is more like Suicune uses an un-boosted 180 BP move on Clefable. Clefable tanks it up pretty nicely because of Cosmic Power and then dishes out a 180 BP super-effective Shock Wave (which ignores Suicunes SpD boosts because of Unaware) and OHKO's it.
Strategy:
The Parental Bond nerf still isn't big enough to stop this. A few Power-Up-Punches into Covet isn't something to scoff at.
Another Pokemon which can easily convert bulk into power. A few Stockpiles and you'll be KOing things with Razor Leaf and Bulldoze xD.
Yes, I know I've mentioned this Pokemon several times now, but think of it this way: if it weren't so great, I wouldn't mention it as much.
Shift Gear + Gear Grind = STAB 220 BP Innately Sturdy/Focus Sash Breaking with +1 Attack. This is probably the most threatening Pokemon in the entire OM and is already banworthy. However I do not know how the meta will progress and what counters will be set up on teams for this. Therefore, I will not ban it yet but if it becomes too OP then it will be banned
Q&A
Q: Wouldn't Stored Power and Power Trip be OP if they get their normal boost and the boost from this OM?
A: No, Stored Power and Power Trip only gain the effect once, like they normally do.
Q: Do abilities like Unburden, Pure Power or Huge Power count as stat boosts.
A: No, they don't.
Q: If I use Power-Up-Punch, will the power be boosted that first time when I used it?
A: No, but it would be boosted the next time it's used.
Banlist/Ruleset
Standard OU Ruleset
Bans: Technician
Potential Threats: Multi-Hit Moves + Skill Link, Klinklang, Kangaskhan-Mega
Unbans: Kangaskhan-Mega
What inspired me to make this metagame: I've always liked the moves Stored Power and Power Trip, and I was always thinking of an idea to make moves like Razor Leaf/Water Gun/Ember viable.
Is this playable: No, but I will ask Urkerab on ROM to code this.
Pokemon Showdown Link: play.pokemonshowdown.com
ROM Server Link: rom.psim.us
BEHOLD YOUR DEMISE (Azumarill) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Bulldoze
- Play Rough
Did I make my point clear?
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In what way is Cloyster not stupidly broken in this? After a Shell Smash, each hit of Icicle Spear has a ridiculous 145 BP, letting it potentially OHKO even Max HP/Max Defense Heatran after Stealth Rocks damage. Scarf users that might outrun? Turned into putty by a 160 BP Ice Shard. Excadrill in sand? OHKO'd by Ice Shard. Scarf Kartana? OHKO'd by Ice Shard. Max attack technician CHOICE BAND Scizor's Bullet Punch doesn't OHKO Cloyster either, even after the defense drop from Shell Smash, while Icicle Spear OHKO's any possible Scizor variant, even Max Defense Mega Scizor.
Even Mega Slowbro, one of the bulkiest resists to Icicle Spear in the game, is OHKO'd.
Also, why is Kang unbanned and why is Technician banned? Tech would stop working after the moves have accumulated boosts so it's not exactly much better than in standard, whereas Kangaskhan is more broken than ever, since power-up-punch's boosts are even more effective than in the past.
So anyway, while multi-hit moves may prove to be a problem, Cloyster specifically needs to be quickbanned due to the combination of Skill Link, Multi-hit moves and most importantly, a +6 boosting move. Mega-kang probably shouldn't be sticking around either, but it's not quite as pressing.
Anyway, some other scary stuff:
Up to this point Mimikyu required a combination of Shadow Sneak and Shadow Claw to get the job done, as the former simply didn't carry enough power behind it to break through many common threats. Now however, Mimikyu can run Z-Splash to bring Shadow Sneak's power up to a devastating 100BP at +3 Attack, while running having an extra slot in it's moveset for coverage. Near guaranteed set-up opportunities assure that Mimikyu is worth looking out for.
Z-Conversion is straight up absurd, but wait, only 60 BP moves are affected by this meta, so how threatening can it be? Pretty threatening, as Porygon-Z can convert into Electric and proceed to ruin your day with a 150 BP Charge Beam now backed with Adaptability STAB, bringing it's BP to 300 and due to the nature of charge beam, 340 the next turn, 380 the next, so on and so on until your team is dust. Running either scarf or ground types will be essential to taking GonZ out, as it's capable of 2HKOing even Eviolite Chansey after Z-Conversion.
Even Mega Slowbro, one of the bulkiest resists to Icicle Spear in the game, is OHKO'd.
Also, why is Kang unbanned and why is Technician banned? Tech would stop working after the moves have accumulated boosts so it's not exactly much better than in standard, whereas Kangaskhan is more broken than ever, since power-up-punch's boosts are even more effective than in the past.
So anyway, while multi-hit moves may prove to be a problem, Cloyster specifically needs to be quickbanned due to the combination of Skill Link, Multi-hit moves and most importantly, a +6 boosting move. Mega-kang probably shouldn't be sticking around either, but it's not quite as pressing.
Anyway, some other scary stuff:
Up to this point Mimikyu required a combination of Shadow Sneak and Shadow Claw to get the job done, as the former simply didn't carry enough power behind it to break through many common threats. Now however, Mimikyu can run Z-Splash to bring Shadow Sneak's power up to a devastating 100BP at +3 Attack, while running having an extra slot in it's moveset for coverage. Near guaranteed set-up opportunities assure that Mimikyu is worth looking out for.
Z-Conversion is straight up absurd, but wait, only 60 BP moves are affected by this meta, so how threatening can it be? Pretty threatening, as Porygon-Z can convert into Electric and proceed to ruin your day with a 150 BP Charge Beam now backed with Adaptability STAB, bringing it's BP to 300 and due to the nature of charge beam, 340 the next turn, 380 the next, so on and so on until your team is dust. Running either scarf or ground types will be essential to taking GonZ out, as it's capable of 2HKOing even Eviolite Chansey after Z-Conversion.
I'd say it should be made so the total of hits equal 145 Base Power, ot just not affect multi-hit moves.
PsyKick Medicham Sounds really cool, but what about starting with just +10? Or lower the damage requirements? Or both? It sounds like a really offensive meta haha
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_moves_that_do_damage
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_moves_that_do_damage
Let's see a few moves that will come in handy:
- Phasing moves. They actually do really good damage now
- Hidden Power is self-explained
- Bulldoze, which has a distributions to some mons who don't get Equake, and lowers foe's speed
- FROST BREATH ALWAYS CRITS
- There are a lot of "This doesn't chech accuracy moves" with 60 BP for some random reason
- Aerial Ace has huge distribution
- Shadow Punch Golurk? (I don't think it can boost it's stats tho)
- Snarl, Electroweb and Icy wind
- Draining Kiss. This one is really relevant, specially on Calm Mind users.
- Flame Charge, which keeps getting stronger until it reaches 170 BP
- Gear Grind + Shift Gear
- Poison Fang. Toxic Poisoning the foe without the need of Status Moves.
- Struggle is going to be hilarious
- Acid Spray is anti-meta for Calm Mind users
- Mega Drain eventually outdamages Giga Drain
- Pursuit is op as hell
- ROLLOUT AND ICE BALL MEME SETS WITH DEFENSE CURL
- Rapid Spin
- C L E A R S M O G
- Beat Up...
- Mud Slap Trolls
- Nuzzle Memes
- Rage is honestly great
- Triple Kick
- Phasing moves. They actually do really good damage now
- Hidden Power is self-explained
- Bulldoze, which has a distributions to some mons who don't get Equake, and lowers foe's speed
- FROST BREATH ALWAYS CRITS
- There are a lot of "This doesn't chech accuracy moves" with 60 BP for some random reason
- Aerial Ace has huge distribution
- Shadow Punch Golurk? (I don't think it can boost it's stats tho)
- Snarl, Electroweb and Icy wind
- Draining Kiss. This one is really relevant, specially on Calm Mind users.
- Flame Charge, which keeps getting stronger until it reaches 170 BP
- Gear Grind + Shift Gear
- Poison Fang. Toxic Poisoning the foe without the need of Status Moves.
- Struggle is going to be hilarious
- Acid Spray is anti-meta for Calm Mind users
- Mega Drain eventually outdamages Giga Drain
- Pursuit is op as hell
- ROLLOUT AND ICE BALL MEME SETS WITH DEFENSE CURL
- Rapid Spin
- C L E A R S M O G
- Beat Up...
- Mud Slap Trolls
- Nuzzle Memes
- Rage is honestly great
- Triple Kick
I'm more in favour of just banning Cloyster, nothing else that can viably run multi hit moves is anywhere near as threatening. Cincinno's Tail Slap has shaky 85% accuracy, and it's boosting options are laughable, needing to run Work Up in hopes of boosting at all. Heracross-mega has Swords Dance and one of the game's highest attack stats, but Pin Missile isn't nearly as good as Icicle Spear type-wise, and after an SD reaches just 65 per hit. Incredibly powerful for sure, but nowhere near what Cloyster accomplishes. Along with being incapable of holding an item, lacking priority, and not gaining the +2 Speed Boost that Smash affords Cloyster. Also, capping the power of multi-hit moves and not other moves just sets a weird precedent and is more confusing for new players than just saying 'no Cloyster'.
Honestly, ban Cloyster and Azumarill and leave it at that. Belly Drum/Shell Smash, Priority, and Multi-hit moves are ridiculously good in this meta, no question's asked, but these two have unique attributes that make them, not the moves themselves, broken. For Cloyster it's the combination of all three elements (a +6 boosting move, priority and skill-link multi-hits), something that no other mon possesses. For Azumarill, it's the combination of STAB priority, Belly Drum, and a massive attack stat that allows it to OHKO, again, even Mega Slowbro with Aqua Jet after a Belly Drum. The only other Belly Drum user with STAB Priority is Linoone, who has nowhere near the bulk that Azu has, and whose priority move (ESpeed) doesn't even receive a boost in this meta. The only Belly Drum priority user aside from those two is Magmortar, who doesn't get STAB on Mach Punch and whose attack stat comes nowhere close to rivaling Azu's.
If you consider nerfing stuff like multi-hit moves and priority, or phasing moves or any moves that have an interesting effect, imo it runs the risk of removing a lot of aspects of the meta that seem appealing and that set it apart from standard OU. Why bother boosting up so I can use a 120 BP move with no cool effect when stuff like Ice Beam already exists, and doesn't have it's power reset if I need to switch out?
For the record, negative stat's don't lower Stored Power's BP at all, though this would be helpful for stopping mons that boost speed, and is just a generally nice offensive ground option.
Just ban the moves because every Shell Smasher will be top threats regardless. All shell Smashers would still receive +120 on top of their '60' power base moves; it'll be firing essentially 180BP Z-Moves turn after turn whatchu mean. Even moves like Shift gear, Coil, Quiver Dance will be somewhat broken. You're either going to have to tweak that formula a bit, or possibly ban some boosting moves that grants more than +2 at a time, or some mons that abuses those moves relatively well like Cloyster. Possibly. Speed Boost might be too much as well.
Respect the fact that you want to make "moves like Razor Leaf/Water Gun/Ember viable". B)
Respect the fact that you want to make "moves like Razor Leaf/Water Gun/Ember viable". B)
Stored Trip
Ever want stat boosts to not only give stats? Ever want that move with an awesome secondary effect to have just a little bit more power?
Idk lol, I just thought it'd be fun to use. Though if the majority think it should remain banned, I'll do that.
Right, I'll go ban stuff like that ASAP. Thanks for the advice!
I thought Kanga would be fun to use, but if the majority want it removed, I'll go do that
I didn't ban Cloyster and Azumarill, I banned Shell Smash and Belly Drum. I hope that should be enough because I don't want to ban the mons themselves, just their OP boostng moves. And I'll make it so that Priority and Multi-Hit moves don't get the boost.
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I don’t think it would be healthy, since with double Seismic Toss and double Crunch it can essentially 2HKO all the metagame. So, it’s better to keep it banned.
Also, use the Edit button below your post if you want to add something, rather than making double/triple posts.
Ok, I'll go unban it, alot of people think I should
BUt why ban Wonder Guard and OHKO moves, they have nothing to do with this.
OK thx.
Remember Technician is banned. Also, I have now banned Belly Drum
I did what you said. I banned Shell Smash/Belly Drum instead of Cloyster/Azumarill. Thanks for the co-operation to think of this.
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