Manaphy discussion.

MANAPHY



Manaphy. What comes to mind when hearing "Manaphy"?

1 Pure Water typing.
2 Base stats of 100.
3 Small movepool.
4 Treathening Tail Glow sweeper.
5 Hydration.
6 Almost never used in its tier. Used frequently in Suspect.

Now let's go deeper into it.

TYPING

Manaphy has a pure Water typing. Its typing has adventages and disadventages. On the offensive side, Manaphy has Water STAB. This is good because the most common Uber (Kyogre) means it is raining often. This boosts Manaphys STAB. Unfortunately, Dragons (Dragon is a very common type in Ubers) and Kyogre (The most common Pokémon) resist its STAB. On the defensive, its typing gives Manaphy an useful Water resistance, and an Ice resistance too. Choiced Kyogre locked into Ice Beam or Surf are good chances to switch in. Specs Water Spout is too strong. A Fire and a Steel resistance are also a benefit. A downside is an Electric weakness, and Electric moves (Thunder) are common in the Uber tier. Its Grass weakness is less problematic, Grass is less common. Manaphy is leight too, so Grass Knot won't do too much. Shaymin-S' Seed Flare is a problem for Manaphy, but Shaymin-S isn't common. Overall, a typing that is both good and bad.

ABILITY

This is a good thing. Hydration heals Manaphy from status problems in the rain. This means Rest without Sleep Talk is a possibility as long as you use Kyogre (Rain) and/or Rain Dance on Manaphy. Then you use Rest. At the end of the same turn, Manaphy wakes up if it is Raining. This is named Rain-Resting. Manaphy has no recovery barring Rest, so it is very useful. However, there is a risk. If a Groudon, Tyranitar, Hippowdon or Abomasnow switches in when Manaphy uses Rest, there is no Rain, so Manaphy will sleep for two turns. Rayquaza has Air Lock to make Manaphy sleep for two turns. Knowing the opponents team and predicting is important when using this strategy. Rain-Rest might be risky, but very useful.

STATS

All stats are 100. This means both offensive and defensive sets are possible as for Manaphys movepool allows it. 100 is not very high for Uber standards, but also definitely not low. Its HP means 101 Substitutes are possible. Its Speed means most Ubers (base 90, Rayquaza base 95) can be outran. A speed tie with Palkia is possible, although nobody uses max Speed Manaphy.

MOVEPOOL

Useful moves.
- Acid Armor.
- Calm Mind.
- Grass Knot
- Heal Bell.
- Heart Swap.
- Hidden Power.
- Ice Beam.
- Icy Wind.
- Knock Off.
- Light Screen.
- Psych Up.
- Rain Dance.
- Reflect.
- Rest.
- Return.
- Safeguard.
- Shadow Ball.
- Signal Beam.
- Skill Swap.
- Sleep Talk.
- Substitute.
- Surf.
- Tail Glow.
- Toxic.
- U-Turn.
- Waterfall.
- Whirlpool.

As you see, I noted every single move that is reasonably useful. Some of them are never used by Manaphy. This might be useful for ideas for new movesets. Some examples: Whirlpool trap, Screen setup, Heart Swap abuse, Skill Swapping useful abilities of the opponent. There are more ideas. Be creative and try to make up a new set! That is what this thread is about.

On the offensive, Manaphy has a small movepool, but it is enough for good coverage. Water+Grass/Ice offers great coverage. Hidden Power if you really want to hit a certain Pokémon for 4* effective damage. For 2* damage, it isn't worth it because Surf is almost as strong as a 2* effective Hidden Power. With Tail Glow, Manaphy can double its Special Attack in one turn. Calm Mind is almost never used on Manaphy, but is good too. With a physically defensive EV spread, it is sturdy. Its Special Defense will be boosted by Calm Mind and its Special Attack too. Ice Beam is good because Dragons are so common. This is a good move to make a set about. Going physically offensive isn't smart. The only Physical move that is useful is U-Turn, and that has nothing to do with power.

On the defensive/supportive, Acid Armor and a special defensive EV spread makes Manaphy bulky. Manaphy can use both screens to lower damage done to itself and teammates. Heal Bell makes Manaphy a cleric.

There is much more than this. Manaphy has a small movepool, is an Uber that is overlooked, but maybe this thread might change this. It would be very nice if you make up a set and popularize it making Manaphys usage go up. If you think your set is good but are bad at teambuilding or want to check if you want to know if your team is good, you could make a RMT. If that one is good, Manaphy can be popularized. So do your best.

USEFUL TEAMMATES

- Kyogre, to provide rain support. Can also Thunder Wave Latias, Latios, Dialga and Palkia, which Kyogre lures in.
- Deoxys-S, Spikes and Stealth Rock to help Tail Glow Manaphy.
- Dialga, sets up Stealth Rock and checks Kyogre. Resists Manaphys weaknesses.
- Latias, checks non-Scarfed Palkia and Kyogre.
- Scizor, checks Mewtwo, Darkrai, Shaymin-S, Latios, Latias and Garchomp locked into Outrage
- Metagross, much like Scizor.
- Blissey, Wish support and taking most special attacks.
- Lugia, to check Rayquaza and Groudon.
- Something to set up screens.

COUNTERS/CHECKS

Blissey, Dialga, Palkia, Latias, Latios, Rayquaza, Kyogre, Groudon, Tyranitar, Shaymin-S, faster revenge killers not named before in this section (like Garchomp).

SETS FROM THE ANALYSIS

These are the sets from the Manaphy analysis, with copied description. Maybe you want to make up a new set by changing a standard. Maybe you want to make sure your set is original. Maybe you want to change an EV spread and nothing more.



Manayphy @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 80 HP/252 SAtk/176 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Rest
- Tail Glow
- Surf
- Ice Beam/Grass Knot

This is Manaphy’s best sweeping set, allowing it to easily increase its Special Attack to astronomical levels with Tail Glow, Rest off the damage, wake up instantly thanks to Hydration, and sweep. Make sure you are packing rain support when using this set, as that is what makes Manaphy truly shine.

Ice Beam is generally the better option in the last slot, giving Manaphy an easy OHKO on Rayquaza, who can negate rain's side-effects with Air Lock, making Hydration useless. It also helps against the other Dragon-types, like Giratina, Latias, and Latios. Grass Knot ensures an OHKO on Kyogre, hits Palkia harder than Ice Beam, and can hit Groudon and Tyranitar who may come in to stop the rain. Neither option leaves you entirely helpless against certain foes, however. For example, if you go with Ice Beam, you can still 2HKO Kyogre with Surf, thanks to boosts from Tail Glow, Life Orb, and Drizzle. If you opt for Grass Knot, then you can still 2HKO Rayquaza with a Life Orb Surf after a Tail Glow boost. Latios can also be 2HKOed by boosted Surfs in rain, even accounting for Soul Dew (his more defensive sister will usually survive two hits though).
The choice of item depends on your personal preference. Leftovers makes for a sturdier Manaphy and can ease set-up. Life Orb gives it some extra kick, and the 10% recoil can be made up for with Rest, especially with Hydration.

The EVs are fairly straightforward. Max Special Attack is necessary to inflict as much damage as possible. The Speed EVs allow Manaphy to outrun all base 90s who do not hold a Choice Scarf, including Kyogre, Groudon, and Dialga, while also letting Manaphy beat Max Speed Adamant Rayquaza. The HP EVs give Manaphy decent bulk to assist in setting up, while also minimizing Life Orb recoil. One could also elect to pull EVs from HP to increase the Speed to 319 (Timid, 216 EVs), if you are paranoid about Jolly Rayquaza.

Manaphy needs to mainly watch out for powerful attackers who are faster than it and resist Surf. Palkia has a 4x resistance to Water-type attacks, is not particularly weak to Ice Beam or Grass Knot, and will fry Manaphy with Thunder. Latios and Latias also defeat Manaphy in a similar fashion, but must watch out for Ice Beam. Dialga is not weak to any of Manaphy’s assaults, and it also has Thunder to hit Manaphy. Kyogre will also make mincemeat out of those Manaphy running Ice Beam over Grass Knot and can even set up on poor Manaphy with Calm Mind. Manaphy will be unable to get past Blissey if it has Calm Mind or Psych Up. While they can’t switch in on a boosted attack, Rayquaza, Groudon, and Tyranitar can come in on the turn Manaphy uses Rest, forcing it to sleep for two turns, while all of them can employ their own stat-boosting moves to prepare for a sweep of their own. Finally, Manaphy is also vulnerable to being revenge killed from Pokemon such as Garchomp, Mewtwo, Shaymin-S, and Darkrai. Blissey can take any special attack thrown at Manaphy and respond with debilitating status, such as Toxic or Thunder Wave. A Choice Scarf Palkia makes a good check to all of these threats (except opposing Choice Scarf Palkia), destroying them all with its powerful Dragon-type attacks. Wobbuffet can trap and KO all of these threats, sans Choice Specs Kyogre or Darkrai, or employ Encore and Safeguard to turn these Pokemon into set-up bait for Manaphy. A specially defensive Dialga provides resists Manaphy's Grass and Electric weaknesses and can cripple the above threats with Thunder Wave, making them less of a threat for Manaphy. Thunder Wave Kyogre, while sharing weaknesses with Manaphy, acts as a great lure for Manaphy’s counters, so it can render them useless by paralyzing them. A Latias of your own is also a great partner, as it is capable of taking down Kyogre and most Palkia with relative ease, although it cannot switch in directly for fear of Spacial Rend or Outrage, while also being able to take any Electric- or Grass-type move thrown at Manaphy. Choice Scarf Garchomp can also provide Manaphy with an Electric-type immunity and will outspeed and KO all of these threats with its powerful Earthquake or Outrage. Scizor is also a good teammate to deal with Mewtwo, Darkrai, Shaymin-S, Latios, and Latias, all of whom may try to revenge kill Manaphy, with Bullet Punch or U-turn. Scizor can also take on Choice Scarf Garchomp locked into Outrage.

 


Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 240 HP/164 SAtk/104 SDef
Nature: Calm
- Rest
- Surf
- Ice Beam/Grass Knot
- Toxic

This set is designed to abuse Toxic and Rest. Poison your foes and stall them out with Rest, while they slowly die from the intensifying damage. Ice Beam is present to kill off Rayquaza, lest he spoil your fun with Air Lock. Grass Knot will hit Kyogre and also takes a big chunk out of Groudon. Light Screen and Reflect are options in the final two slots for more stalling potential and team support. Heart Swap could also be used here to prevent foes from setting up on you.

Since this is a defensive set, the EVs should reflect it. You'll want this Manaphy to be slow so it can take hits, as even Thunder Choice Scarf Kyogre fails to OHKO, barring a critical hit. The Special Attack EVs ensure you will always OHKO minimum HP Rayquaza and then can Rest up to full health. Because Manaphy still has a slight chance to OHKO Rayquaza even with minimum Special Attack, it is possible, although not recommended, to switch the Special Attack EVs to either of the defensive stats. You can also opt to simply max out HP and Special Defense. This gives you a chance to survive a Thunder from Modest Choice Specs Kyogre, as Manaphy will always survive a hit from Timid versions.

This Manaphy, while being able to outstall some of its common counters with Toxic, still needs to watch out some for the above threats, more specifically Choice Specs Kyogre, Calm Mind Latias and Latios, and Dialga (especially Bulk Up variants), as they can set up on you now that Dialga does not have to fear boosted Ice Beams and is immune to Toxic. Rest + Sleep Talk Kyogre with Calm Mind can set up on Manaphy without Grass Knot and can Rest off Toxic. Choice Scarf Garchomp is once again a great partner, as it is able to switch in on Thunder aimed at Manaphy, outrun all of these threats, and KO them with strong Dragon- and Ground-type strikes. Latias can CM alongside Kyogre and defeat it with Grass Knot.
Again, this set fears opposing weather changers, such as Groudon, Tyranitar, and Rayquaza, from coming in on Rest and setting up a sweep that could spell doom for your team. Choice Scarf Palkia is a nice check for these threats, able to severely hurt or KO them all with a powerful Draco Meteor (or Aura Sphere for Tyranitar). You can also use Choice Scarf Dialga, who makes a better check to Swords Dance Rayquaza, but will be outsped by Jolly variants of Rayquaza after a single Dragon Dance, meaning you will be unable to revenge kill it. Make sure to use Kyogre to replace the rain after these threats are eliminated.

MANAPHY OVERVIEW

Stats: Good stats allowing it to be offensive and defensive.
Movepool: Small, but enough to provide it with most of what it needs.
Ablilty: Good, but abusing it is risky.
Typing: Has adventages and disadventages.

IDEAS

If you don't know where to start when making your new Manaphy set, here are some ideas to make a set around.
- New EV spread for a standard set.
- Choice Manaphy.
- U-Turn/Protect scout.
- Sleep Talk/RestTalker.
- Whirlpool trapping.
- Calm Mind.
- Heal Bell.
- Heart Swap.
- Psych Up.
- Acid Armor.
- Icy Wind.
- Knock Off.
- Screen support.
- Utility/specific counter for what you want it to counter.

I know RestTalk seems stupid with Hydration, but this might allow Manaphy to deal with Rayquaza and Groudon. Or even a CroPhy. Then Manaphy is less dependant on the rain. I don't think it is good, but testing will be the only way to be sure.

CLOSING WORDS

Now you read all this, I hope you can make up new Manaphy set. If you can't or don't want to make up new sets, I hope you learned about Manaphy and/or want to use Manaphy.
Thank you for reading this and I hope you enjoyed it.

Altaria
 
Why did you copy+paste the analysis? Although it's cool you're trying to give manaphy some exposure, I never realised manaphy could screen before!
 
I thought: "If I post the analysis sets, people don't have to search the analysis when they want to make a new EV spread for a standard set. Why going to the analysis if everyone can read it here?" I tried to be helpful. Sorry. This thread does bring discussion: Making new sets. I gave many ideas for that.
 
I like the your Manaphy Thread, but I don`t think someone should post a RestTalk set, even though Hydration is risky, it should be used.
 
A chocie scarf set utilizing heart swap could be interesting.

Manaphy @ Choice Scarf
Timid
252 Sp atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP

Surf
Ice Beam
Grass Knot
Heart Swap

The idea here is to use Heart Swap as a last resort move against pokemon with an insane amount of boosts, like calm mind mewtwo or kyogre. Then switch out to a pokemon that could actually deal with the opponent in question. It can also be used against walls as well, possibly heart swapping any defense boosts the walls may have accumulated. The other two moves, surf and ice beam, are for true revenge killing of things like rayquaza and garchomp.

Edit: Manaphy doesn't get trick, so that also means grass knot is guaranteed in the third slot. Sorry lol
 

Theorymon

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Heart Swap is glitched on Shoddy, so I dont recommend talking about it. Also, Manaphy does not get Trick.
 
I am actually in the middle of constructing a team based around Manaphy, who is going to use this CMSub set I made:

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SAtk / 176 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Ice Beam / Grass Knot
- Substitute

The objective is simple: Switch into something that cannot harm you and set up Substitute and Calm Mind. This allows Manaphy to avoid status moves from the likes of Lugia, Groudon and Giratina without Rain support. This set also overcomes one of the main problems that most Special Attacks have; Blissey. Manaphy can Calm Mind up behind its 101HP Sub, whilst Blissey fails to break it with a Sesmic Toss. However, this set still cannot beat CMBliss, as it can set up along side Manaphy and stall it too death.

Damage Calc for +6 Manaphy vs 4 HP / 252 SpD (Standard) Blissey (In rain):

1024 Atk vs 405 Def & 652 HP (95 Base Power): 385 - 454 (59.05% - 69.63%)

Another advantage this set has is that it does not use rest, so Groudon, Tyranitar and Rayquaza can no longer switch in and set up on it.

Ice Beam is the usually the superior option, giving better overall coverage. It hits Dragon types harder (bar Palkia) and gets the OHKO on Garchomp / Rayquaza with SR. Grass Knot can be used to KO Kyogre and deal with Groudon and Tyranitar better, but Ice beam is overall the better choice.

Leftovers is the best option in the item slot, as recovering HP is critical for setting up a Substitute. However, Wacan Berry can be used to reduce the damage from a Thunder, giving you some extra time. This may sound pointless, but it can actually be extremely useful at times. With leftovers, Palkia can come in on Manaphy, and Thunder for a 3HKO (2HKO + Substitute). However, provided Manaphy has a Sub + 2 Calm Minds and Wacan berry, Manaphy can Ice Beam whilst the Sub is destroyed, take about 39% damage from Thunder and finish Palkia off.

Amazingly, Manaphy will take 80% from Palkia's Hasty Thunder even without a SpD boost, which means that Palkia won't OHKO. So unless it is holding a Life Orb, Wacan Berry isn't very useful and is only helpful in a select few situations, so you are almost always better of with Leftovers anyway.

The EVs are simple; The 252 EVs in HP give Manaphy the all important Bulky 101-subs, whilst 176 speed EVs lets Manaphy out speed all non-scarfed Base 90s. 180 speed EVs can be used to out speed all Rayquazas also trying to hit the 308 Speed mark, whilst 216 Speed EVs can be used to out speed Max Jolly Rayquaza. The rest is poured into SpA to deal the most amount of damage as possible.

Whilst this Manaphy isn't as easily revenge-killed as the Tail-Glow sweeper, a lot of Pokemon can still stop it in its tracks. Palkia outspeeds Manaphy, has a 4x resistance to Manaphy's STAB Surf and doesn't fear Ice Beam / Grass Knot at all (Only being 2HKO'd by a 2+ Manaphy's Grass Knot). Latios and Latias also make rather good counters, as Soul Dew raises there SpA and SpD to extremely high levels, not to mention also using Calm Mind. However, both must be careful not to be KO'd by a boosted Ice Beam/s. If Ice Beam is being used over Grass Knot, Kyogre can come in on Manaphy and either destroys Manaphy or sets up on it. Taunt + CM Mewtwo is similar to Kyogre, but can stop Manaphy setting up altogether. Anything faster than Manaphy can come in on it and revenge kill it, but if Manaphy has a Substitute up, it can effectively stop them. Garchomp and Shamyin-S are easily OHKO'd by Ice Beam (Be wary of Yache Berry Garchomp's though) and Darkai can be KO'd by a boosted Surf. Mewtwo is only 2HKO'd, but Manaphy's excellent 100/100/100 defenses insure that Manaphy survives a Timid 252 SpA Thunder by the skin of its teeth (Maximum damage is 86% + SR damage) which means it can effectively win if Mewtwo's first attack hit its Substitute (Unless its Specs or has Life Orb). To solve these problems, you can use a Choice Scarfed Garchomp who not only can KO each threat, but also has a useful immunity to Electric-types. Wobbefett also makes a good team mate, as it can KO those annoying Choiced pokemon and even use the Encore + Safeguard strategy to give Manaphy a good amount of time to set up. Defensive Pokemon such as Dialga, Blissey and even Kyogre who have access to moves such as Thunder Wave and Toxic to cripple the opponents pokemon also work well with Manaphy. Dialga resists Electric and Grass moves, whilst slowing down the opponent to help Manaphy sweep. Blissey can take special attacking moves such as Thunder and Leaf Storm, and can either poison or paralyze the enemy. Kyogre may seem like a bad choice since it has the same weaknesses, but it can also set up rain for Manaphy aswell as cripple the opposition.

To work efficiently, Manaphy desprately needs Kyogre's rain support. Without rain, Surf cannot secure some KOs against certain Pokemon. Example: 1+ Manaphy does a minimum of 64% damage to 4 / 0 Darkrai, but does 96% in the rain. This is a huge difference for Manaphy, who desparetly needs to get those certain KOs. In addition to boosting its water moves, Manaphy's ability 'Hydration' heals its status in the rain. With rain falling, Manaphy can sucessfully switch into Darkrai's Dark Void, heal its status and KO with Surf the next turn.


PS: Should I contribute this to the Anlaysis? I really want to know what you think.

And yes, this did take half a day. :P
 
Kyogre runs a Sub-CM set much better, due to 150 SpAttk vs 100 SpAttk, and guaranteed double-STAB. It is also much specially bulkier, and the loss of 10 speed doesn't hurt it that much, as the only significant pokemon Manaphy outruns over Kyogre is Rayquaza, who will rarely switch into Kyogre. It's stats are only mediocre (even below average!) and its movepool is shallow, especially in the Uber tier, so a choice set is somewhat outclassed by the likes of Palkia, or Mewtwo.
In my opinion, Manaphy is outclassed in Ubers, and while perhaps not OU, has few uses in Ubers. Okay, I honestly think it deserves to be OU. After all, Celebi and Jirachi are OU, and there's Sandstorm to worry about in OU and (most importantly!) no Kyogre backup. Mew is Uber due it's movepool (i.e. Baton Pass and +2 moves) which Manaphy can only dream of having. Tail Glow+Rest gives only two attacks, so it will be walled by either Kyogre or Lati@s (and even Rayquaza with Grass Knot). Kyogre can actually 2hko opposing Kyogre with a +1 Surf while a non-specs Kyogre cannot 2hko back, even with Thunder. Basically, I'm sorry, but Manaphy does not deserve to be Uber. (I'm looking at you, Wynaut)
 

shrang

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Manaphy @ Choice Scarf
Timid
252 Sp atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP

Surf
Ice Beam
Grass Knot
Heart Swap/ Grass Knot
Wait why do we have Grass Knot twice?? Anyway, I've been using this Manaphy is Suspect and its been pretty effective (Replace the last move with U-Turn). Although it's a good revenge killer in Suspect and possibly OU, I honestly don't think this set does very well in Ubers. It is firstly, outclassed by Palkia, who has the same speed and 50 extra base points in Special Attack and a bigger offensive movepool, the only different thing it has over Palkia is U-Turn to escape Wobbuffet with, and that is if you can predict Wobb and escape. Secondly, who are you going to revenge kill with it?? Rayquaza OHKOs Manaphy with SD'd Extremespeed before you can do anything anyway. Heart Swap is nice, but it really does solve any problem, the sweeper could just come back in and set up again, and not to mention the fact that Heart Swap is banned on Shoddy anyway.
 
What about Dual Screen Manaphy? In Ubers, it could find itself a real niche, as it's light weight makes Grass Knot a non-threat, leaving Thunder as the only (reduced power) option against it.

Manaphy@Light Clay
Timid / Jolly; 252 HP / 76 SpA / 180 Spe

Rest
Reflect
Light Screen
Surf / U-Turn

309 speed allows it to outpace +Speed 176 Palkia, and anything underneath. The idea is to set up Light Screen first to defend on the side that the majority of Ubers hit (and where the majority of Manaphy's weaknesses lie), then Reflect. Surf gives Manaphy a way to do some damage, though U-Turn can be used to bring in a sweeper against faster opponents. Kyogre support is imperative, as it allows Rest to fully restore Manaphy before it switches, and can thus come back in and do it again.
 
I like the your Manaphy Thread, but I don`t think someone should post a RestTalk set, even though Hydration is risky, it should be used.
I agree; even though Manaphy is a pretty solid poke even without it's ability, it's not only a waste, but a hindrance to be forced to use RestTalk.
 
What about Dual Screen Manaphy? In Ubers, it could find itself a real niche, as it's light weight makes Grass Knot a non-threat, leaving Thunder as the only (reduced power) option against it.

Manaphy@Light Clay
Timid / Jolly; 252 HP / 76 SpA / 180 Spe

Rest
Reflect
Light Screen
Surf / U-Turn

309 speed allows it to outpace +Speed 176 Palkia, and anything underneath. The idea is to set up Light Screen first to defend on the side that the majority of Ubers hit (and where the majority of Manaphy's weaknesses lie), then Reflect. Surf gives Manaphy a way to do some damage, though U-Turn can be used to bring in a sweeper against faster opponents. Kyogre support is imperative, as it allows Rest to fully restore Manaphy before it switches, and can thus come back in and do it again.

Problem is that majority of Palkia run max speed, and 309 doesn't even outspeed Jolly max speed Quaza. This is outclassed by Latios, as it has momento, and can outspeed Garchomp. Mewtwo has taunt. Uxie has much better bulk. Deoxys-S has blistering speed. This maybe great for the first battle, but not consecutive ones. This set is outclassed by other dual screens.
 
It is good to see even though my thread is bad, there is still discussion. Keep up the effort! I might test the better sets out sometimes.
 
Kyogre runs a Sub-CM set much better, due to 150 SpAttk vs 100 SpAttk, and guaranteed double-STAB. It is also much specially bulkier, and the loss of 10 speed doesn't hurt it that much, as the only significant pokemon Manaphy outruns over Kyogre is Rayquaza, who will rarely switch into Kyogre.
Whilst Manaphy has lower Special Defense, higher defense and speed means it can set up a substitute quicker and it is harder to be revenge-killed. Unlike Kyogre, it only takes a measly 20 base damage from Grass Knot, meaning the only Grass attacks it has to worry about are from Shaymin-S (Which it can beat with Substitute up). Also, with Substitute up it doesn't have to worry about being leech seeded by the likes of Ludicolo, who can't do anything to Manaphy.
 
In my opinion, Manaphy is outclassed in Ubers, and while perhaps not OU, has few uses in Ubers. Okay, I honestly think it deserves to be OU. After all, Celebi and Jirachi are OU.
Since Manaphy doesn't seem to have that much of a use, even if it were in OU, it might be considered BL, like Shaymin is.
The lack of rain support is a bad thing, too.
BTW Skymin should be OU.
 
To be a good sweeper you need either bulk or speed (preferably both) and by uber standards Manaphy doesn't have enough of either one to be threatening. Calm Mind Kyogre is better because 1. it supports itself, it doesn't depend on another pokemon to be good, 2. unlike Manaphy it can hit really hard without any set up, 3. it is significantly bulkier on the special side, especially after a calm mind, so it can get set up opportunities more easily and is less susceptible to revenge kills from things like Skymin, Mewtwo, or Palkia, and 4. unlike Manaphy, Kyogre gets Thunder and its 30% paralysis rate while Manaphy has to settle for grass knot. The only significant advantage Manaphy has over Kyogre is its immunity to status in the rain meaning that it doesn't fear Darkrai as much, and performs better against Blissey.

edit: to the poster above me, if Manaphy goes to OU there is no way it's going to BL lol
 
To be a good sweeper you need either bulk or speed (preferably both) and by uber standards Manaphy doesn't have enough of either one to be threatening. Calm Mind Kyogre is better because 1. it supports itself, it doesn't depend on another pokemon to be good, 2. unlike Manaphy it can hit really hard without any set up, 3. it is significantly bulkier on the special side, especially after a calm mind, so it can get set up opportunities more easily and is less susceptible to revenge kills from things like Skymin, Mewtwo, or Palkia, and 4. unlike Manaphy, Kyogre gets Thunder and its 30% paralysis rate while Manaphy has to settle for grass knot. The only significant advantage Manaphy has over Kyogre is its immunity to status in the rain meaning that it doesn't fear Darkrai as much, and performs better against Blissey.

edit: to the poster above me, if Manaphy goes to OU there is no way it's going to BL lol
Calm Mind Kyogre is often better, but not always, the ability to beat Darkrai and Blissey can be vital
 
Sub-CM Ogre beats both Darkrai and Blissey if they switch in on the Sub. Not much else can stop it either without sacrificing itself. Latias maybe, but that's about it.
 

shrang

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Wow, this thread hasn't been touched for a while. Time to revive it, because I think Calm Mind Manaphy has some potential in Ubers. Like the Tail Glow set, CM-Manaphy relies on RainRest, so Kyogre support is crucial. Here's the set:

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP/80 SpA/176 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Calm Mind
-Surf
-Ice Beam/Grass Knot
-Rest

Manaphy is quite a bulky Pokemon, so taking advantage of his bulk is a good idea. With this set, Manaphy can Calm Mind up with a safe switch-in, and continue CMing and Resting off damage. Here are some damage calcs:

_vs +1 Manaphy:
Neutral 252 SpA Kyogre/Dialga/Palkia's Thunder: 399 Atk vs 354 Def & 404 HP (120 Base Power): 194 - 230 (48.02% - 56.93%) (Assuming Manaphy is at >90%, he can Calm Mind again, and then Rest off the damage, and continue boosting in their faces - +2 Manaphy only takes 36.14% - 43.07%, so he won't get killed most of the time). Beware Scarfers.

Manaphy also has enough bulk to survive a +2 Extremespeed from SD Quaza (68.56% - 80.69%), so he is quite sturdy in the physical department. The EVs allow Manaphy to outspeed +ve natured base 90s.
 
I have used Manaphy in ubers for quite sometime now and I gotta say the results are a bit underwhelming. It just lacks the power needed to be a proper threat. And it isn't really that bulky anyway. Personally I would choose Jirachi or Ludicolo over Manaphy.
 

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