(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

Karxrida

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There's probably no Dawn Forme since Dusk Forme is called Twilight Forme in other languages.
I know I didn't want Lycanroc to be competitive in any way or forme (in fact, I want it to be terrible) but are the guys at Game Freak even paying attention at what they are doing?

Giving Tough Claws to something that is almost certainly going to be pure Rock-type like the other two formes when Rock is all about non-contact moves...
Accelerock is a contact move, so it's got that + coverage going for it.
 

Pikachu315111

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Well, at least they said it will not be available in the wild through conventional methods, so unless it gets plot exposition (please don't, Game Freak; pick a reptile or dinosaur instead) we won't be coming across it, so it compensates.

Dusk Lycanroc's design has plenty of problems... but it being way too similar to the Midday form is far from the worst. The worst one is the kind of animal it's based on.
I know I didn't want Lycanroc to be competitive in any way or forme (in fact, I want it to be terrible) but are the guys at Game Freak even paying attention at what they are doing?
I take it you're not a dog/wolf person. If you're only reason not wanting to give Lycanroc an extended story role (which I don't think they were going to do anyway, at most maybe make it into a Totem Pokemon if they were going to create new ones) or be good in battles is because of that then that's all on you. While I don't think it would ever become an uber or have more than a niche role in OU, I personally would like to see it a least be battle competent as I would any other Pokemon. Beside many people like wolves, I also them (maybe not as much as others, though I'm glad there's finally a wolf Pokemon. Now we just need to work on that werewolf...).

Giving Tough Claws to something that is almost certainly going to be pure Rock-type like the other two formes, when Rock is all about non-contact moves...
Accelerock is a contact move, so it's got that + coverage going for it.
And Counter also makes contact. Though I'd imagine that, in addition to Accelerock, people will opt for Return, Crunch/Sucker Punch, Brick Break, Fire Fang, Thunder Fang (why not Ice Fang?).

There's probably no Dawn Forme since Dusk Forme is called Twilight Forme in other languages.
Ah, I get it. English probably didn't want to associate it with a certain book series (sad the word "twilight" is now afflicted with that stigma, stupid book series). If they wanted to be fancy they could have gone with "Crepuscular Form" (crepuscular refer to animals who are more active during the twilight times). They could have also gone with "Afterglow Form".
 
A Dawn form would look like a recoloured Midnight form with a minor difference. It's gimmick would be having both Counter (woo...) and Accelrock rather than Accelrock and Counter. Totally different and very worthwhile.

Though since that isn't going to happen, I actually prefer the name 'Twilight form'. I'd name mine Edward and make sure it was shiny.
 
A Dawn form would look like a recoloured Midnight form with a minor difference. It's gimmick would be having both Counter (woo...) and Accelrock rather than Accelrock and Counter. Totally different and very worthwhile.

Though since that isn't going to happen, I actually prefer the name 'Twilight form'. I'd name mine Edward and make sure it was shiny.
Except it's likely going to be given via the event Rockruff at USUM's launch, thus shiny locked.
 

Deleted User 400951

Banned deucer.
A Dawn form would look like a recoloured Midnight form with a minor difference. It's gimmick would be having both Counter (woo...) and Accelrock rather than Accelrock and Counter. Totally different and very worthwhile.

Though since that isn't going to happen, I actually prefer the name 'Twilight form'. I'd name mine Edward and make sure it was shiny.
Why not Jacob, the actual wolf dude from the Twilight series?
I'm pretty certain being associated with the Twilight series in any way is going to hurt sales a hefty bit. Twilight also has to do with those magic thingies like werewolves and vampires when many Christian groups already hate Pokémon for this kind of thing (they said kadabra has a pentagram lol).

With it getting both its contemporary's "signature" moves I'm further pushed to thinking there's no Dawn form. What would they even do with the Dawn form, not give it any of its contemporary's signature moves? Instead have it focus on an Ability gimmick, even a signature Ability?

Also, can we stop treating Counter as something special? It's not, at least not on Lycanroc Midnight. I sorta get what they were going for with Midnight being a sort of blood knight, but I think there could have been a better way to show that off and not compromise it's battling capabilities.
I personally have no idea why they didn't at least make Midnight form Rock-Dark type. I get it's not evil but it's supposed to be a blood knight so that works, and that would have truly separated it from Midday, which is much better in just about every way imo. They really messed up Midnight Lycanroc.
 

Pikachu315111

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I personally have no idea why they didn't at least make Midnight form Rock-Dark type. I get it's not evil but it's supposed to be a blood knight so that works, and that would have truly separated it from Midday, which is much better in just about every way imo. They really messed up Midnight Lycanroc.
Because Rock/Dark would make it quadruple weak to Fighting. Being OHKO kind of makes it difficult to use Counter (though I guess they could have also given it a defensive Ability like Sturdy or Solid Rock). Actually I think we can all agree that Lycanroc Midnight just needs a complete redo, they did not do enough to make what they want it to do work:

Stats: 85/115/75/55/75/82//487. This is for a Pokemon who's main gimmick is suppose to be Counter? This Pokemon is suppose to take a hit and then dish out double the damage back, but if it faints before doing that it kind of defeats the purpose. Let's take a look at another Pokemon who's gimmick is countering: Wobbuffet. 190/33/58/33/58/33//405. Wobbuffet is an HP sponge, it's doubtful you're taking it down with one hit. Its defenses are also high enough to ensure this which means it's likely to get out at least one Counter or Mirror Coat. That is pretty much the way to do a Counter Pokemon. I guess it can also do high defense, but that will lower the damage it'll be sending back. Also, middling Speed is pointless on a Counter Pokemon. Either a Counter Pokemon is slow as its always intended to go last, or it's fast so that when it can use some status moves. Status moves specifically because its main way of attacking should be Counter, if it's also relying on other offensive moves it might as well go normal offensive which, oh look, Lycanroc Midnight sets often opt for.
Half A Move: Speaking of Mirror Coat, a Counter Pokemon isn't worth it if it also doesn't have Mirror Coat. Without Mirror Coat, the Pokemon is left open on the Special side.
Ability: Not a requirement, but the right Ability can really help cement a Pokemon's role. Taking a look at Wobbuffet again, it gets Shadow Tag so Pokemon can't escape it thus have to take a gamble and attacking it (or find other ways to wear it down) or has Telepathy so its strategy isn't ruined by allies. Lycanroc Midnight gets Keen Eye (prevents Accuracy loss, useless), Vital Spirit (prevents Sleep, useful but not helpful), and No Guard (all moves taken and used by this Pokemon will hit, very useful but not for a counter Pokemon). Midnight has no Abilities that really helps in its countering, nothing either to trap the opponent nor reduce the damage taken (Sturdy & Solid Rock would have been pretty good, and help it if it was also make a Rock/Dark).

"Okay, stop now. WHO CARES ABOUT COUNTER! Why are you so obsessed with Lycanroc Midnight being a Pokemon to use Counter?"

Because Midday got a cool Signature Move, a Rock-type Quick Attack, and the stats to be a fast attacker while Midnight's stats and chance of getting a cool signature move was compromised because they decided to make it a blood knight and have Counter instead of Accelerock. When GF does something like that, I kind of expect the Pokemon to be good at what they're changing it to do otherwise it would make the Pokemon feel like an inferior version of its other form.
 
To be honest, No Guard could have been *fine* for Lycanroc Midnight as sort of signature ability... if it had something to actually make use of it. The release of the event Lycanroc Midnight clearly shown that their main aim was for players to use that ability since it's overally not common at all.
However simply having 100% Stone Edge and... uh.. Fire/Thunder Fang while having bad speed tier, average bulk and not exactly stellar attack also did not really end up making it get any sort of niche... At least the other 2 notable No Guard users (Machamp and Mega-Pidgeot) do get moves that give them a niche, as in Dynamic Punch (-and Stone Edge-) and Hurricane.

Kind of a shame, yes. Lycanroc could really have been much more, in all forms.

If the Lycanroc Dusk gets confirmed to have Though Claws and access to Accellerock and Counter, depending on the moveset and actual stats there could be the chance it carves a niche. Ideally a slow/bulky version could make use of both for example, and so would a high attack with good speed tier.

But seeing the other 2 formes, I don't consider impossible for it to just go add to the huge list of "Pokes with potentially awesome design who ended up mediocre" that both Gen 6 and Gen 7 sport.
 

Pikachu315111

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Lycanroc Dusk Form Update:
Clearer image from this month's CoroCoro have come and it's saying that a distribution of a "Special Rockruff" will be done, the special thing about this Rockruff is that it evolves into Lycanroc Dusk. So yeah... sounds like we might be getting another Ash-Greninja type deal. Only "Special Rockruff" can evolve into Dusk, so the question is whether we can get more or is it event exclusive (or event exclusive but we can breed more)? I'm hoping the former, giving us a free one for early buyers for the main game but can get Special Rockruff another way in the game (though hopefully not random).

BTW, I can't help but notice that, despite GF seemingly having USUM info for us ready, we're still waiting for CoroCoro (a monthly magazine which we need to wait third party scans for) to give us the news instead of, say, release the news on the Pokemon Website and Youtube...
 
Maybe it's just me, but I think Lycanroc Midnight could have adhered to its Counter (and just Counter) idea with one simple basis: make it difficult to KO on the special side. Solid Rock for its weaknesses, and give it competent Special bulk (maybe semi-usable recovery). Either the opponent has to whittle down its more competent Special defense, or has to risk being predicted and taking a counter attack. Then give it its higher attack stat so that it presents a threat to pressure the opponent if they go for the special route. It also averts the Wobuffett issue of being completely passive if the opponent has non-damage means to exploit it (ignoring the competitive side where it's more for things like Tickle and Encore) and also doesn't have to pigeonhole its BST to match a role of the sort.

Even then, I feel like Lycanroc should have a signature move, like some kind of Rock clone of Metal bursts o if doesn't require a specific attack type. I also feel like it's missing some thematic moves in the form of Feint Attack and Sucker Punch, moves that involve the idea of catching the opponent off guard when they attack. If anything, I think they fit Lycanroc better because the idea doesn't seem like rope-a-dope get hit to make the opening, rather about exploiting the opening when the opponent is poised to attack but before they do, which is the explanation for Feint Attack's perfect hit rate and Sucker Punch's priority, which also enforces some conjecture about it being a Rock/Dark type
 

Pikachu315111

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Lycanroc Dusk Form Update 2:
And Lycanroc Dusk Form cements its place as USUM's Ash-Greninja:
Serebii said:
Following Tuesday leak of CoroCoro, a clearer image has now come showcasing the full details of Lycanroc Dusk Form. It is confirmed to be a pure Rock-type and be 2'07/0.8m tall and weigh 55.1lbs/25kg. It also confirms once and for all that Dusk Form cannot be obtained during normal gameplay and only through the Special Rockruff distribution. Finally, it also states the confirmation that when it attacks, its eyes turn red akin to Lycanroc's Midnight Form as it unleashes its fighting spirit.
So is this a thing now? Mythical Pokemon aren't enough anymore, now we need special event forms for normal Pokemon? Or is this only going to something that happens once every gen when the anime decides it wants to give Ash a special Pokemon (Gen VII only getting two since they never made a Z which would have been where Ash-Greninja be introduced... and also AZ's Floette which was never released despite having its own stats and Signature Move)?

And yes, I know we've had special Pokemon forms before such as Spiky-Eared Pichu, but just something about this and Ash-Greninja feels almost pandering in a way (pandering to who? No clue). Actually, what really bothers me about these forms is the question are they going to carry over to the next gen or, like Spiky-Eared Pichu, be a gen exclusive? And if not, does that mean they'll ever release them again or make them obtainable in-game?

This is a problem we already have with Mythical Pokemon. There's so many now but only so many Events they can do. Infact they recently de-mythified one: Deoxys. And you know what, it worked! They made Deoxys part of a story and getting to battle & capture it was the icing on the cake for ORAS Delta Episode. Yet Deoxys is the only one they've done it with. I say if they do a Sinnoh remake that Deoxys and Manaphy should both be de-mythified. Or make Manaphy the Ash-Greninja/Dusk Lycanroc for those games and just de-mythify Darkrai, probably a post game plot involving it and Cresselia.

Sorry, got off track there. Still, my interest for Dusk Lycanroc has now pretty much got shot down because of this. Why? Because like with Ash-Greninja with SM, it has little to do with USUM. It's that they're giving Ash's Rockruff a special evolution form and so giving players it too, something related to anime thus not connected to the games at all.

GIVE US USUM NEWS ALREADY!
 
If they go for same route of Ash-greninja, might just have fixed IV with variable nature.

After that screw the soft reset for IV, *runs to the hypertrainer*
 
Or make Manaphy the Ash-Greninja/Dusk Lycanroc for those games and just de-mythify Darkrai, probably a post game plot involving it and Cresselia.
If they did that, it would be awesome, but I think that gen IV (Specifically Platinum) already has a good enough postgame. And also, they better bring back the battle frontier for gen IV remakes.
 

DHR-107

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Orange Islands
Please direct all the Dusk Forme discussion to Discord - https://discord.gg/KjZuZ7j

I'm keeping the USUM thread locked at the moment because of the nature of this sort of talk. It's all highly speculative at best. I will happily unlock the main USUM thread when there is actual news to discuss. Yes, I know everyone is chomping at the bit for any information we might get hold of, but let's not let it spill into threads which shouldn't really be discussing it. We are all disappointed with the lack of information we have got so far. Yes Dusk is ass. We all know it. When we get something else "big" (ie not a shitty event only mon which is tied to Ash again) then go for it and talk how you want.

Use Discord to discuss anything else in real time with a fair few other users. We don't bite! It's been active almost all day today and we are always welcoming of new users!

To keep the thread roughly on topic:
If they did that, it would be awesome, but I think that gen IV (Specifically Platinum) already has a good enough postgame. And also, they better bring back the battle frontier for gen IV remakes.
You'll be waiting a long time for this to happen. If it didn't happen in ORAS it won't happen anywhere. Tree/maison is here to stay and nothing is going to change that. GameFreak have stated multiple times that Battle Facilities are not played enough for the amount of effort they put in. Sure, we have a high concentration of players here, but out of millions of players? Less than 1% probably use them.
 
Please direct all the Dusk Forme discussion to Discord - https://discord.gg/KjZuZ7j

I'm keeping the USUM thread locked at the moment because of the nature of this sort of talk. It's all highly speculative at best. I will happily unlock the main USUM thread when there is actual news to discuss. Yes, I know everyone is chomping at the bit for any information we might get hold of, but let's not let it spill into threads which shouldn't really be discussing it. We are all disappointed with the lack of information we have got so far. Yes Dusk is ass. We all know it. When we get something else "big" (ie not a shitty event only mon which is tied to Ash again) then go for it and talk how you want.

Use Discord to discuss anything else in real time with a fair few other users. We don't bite! It's been active almost all day today and we are always welcoming of new users!

To keep the thread roughly on topic:


You'll be waiting a long time for this to happen. If it didn't happen in ORAS it won't happen anywhere. Tree/maison is here to stay and nothing is going to change that. GameFreak have stated multiple times that Battle Facilities are not played enough for the amount of effort they put in. Sure, we have a high concentration of players here, but out of millions of players? Less than 1% probably use them.
... though only offering a regional variant of the Battle Tower probably isn't encouraging players to mess with the Battle Facilities more. It's a little annoying, but it's not like they'll never get my money ever again. I'll certainly be getting USUM, and very likely the Pokemon games for the Switch whatever those may be.
 
I do not expect them to go again for the "multiple battle facilities" route, but I could definitely see Battle Tree getting some extras in the Ultra version, and I'm still in the hope that with Switch hardware potential available, we might see Triples (and maybe rotational?) again in the 8th generation titles.
 

Pikachu315111

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I do not expect them to go again for the "multiple battle facilities" route, but I could definitely see Battle Tree getting some extras in the Ultra version, and I'm still in the hope that with Switch hardware potential available, we might see Triples (and maybe rotational?) again in the 8th generation titles.
I would like to see Triples back, but I don't think Rotation really had enough to it to make it stand out (if they brought it back I think they'd have to expand upon it, maybe finding a way to do Double Rotations). After that the only other battling style I think everyone else would want would be Inverse Battles (seriously GF, why are you ignoring this awesome idea?).

Thinking about it, instead of making them their own challenge, maybe make multiple "modes" you can switch on and off and combine. I'd imagine the options looking like this:

Style: Single, Double, Tag, Triple
Inverse Mode: Yes/No
Rotation Mode: Yes/No (only Single (maybe Double/Tag too, though don't see them doing it with Triple))
Little Cup Mode: Yes/No

That way you can also mix and match modes like Double Inverse, Tag Little Cup, Inverse Rotation Little Cup, Triple Inverse Little Cup, etc..

"What about Sky Battles?"

What about Sky Battles? We don't talk about Sky Battles...
 

Deleted User 400951

Banned deucer.
I do not expect them to go again for the "multiple battle facilities" route, but I could definitely see Battle Tree getting some extras in the Ultra version, and I'm still in the hope that with Switch hardware potential available, we might see Triples (and maybe rotational?) again in the 8th generation titles.
I personally don't think that Triples will come back, and I'm glad. It was never very popular because it's very complicated. There's too much to do with placing and order, along with the complications of Doubles, that it becomes very difficult to get into. They've shown no sign of it returning and I don't think it will.
Rotations are gone for sure. They were never liked as a result of the sheer prediction needed to battle. It simply is too difficult to play competitively, and it ultimately ends up luck based, almost.
After that the only other battling style I think everyone else would want would be Inverse Battles (seriously GF, why are you ignoring this awesome idea?).

"What about Sky Battles?"

What about Sky Battles? We don't talk about Sky Battles...
This is controversial for sure, but I liked sky battles. They weren't meant to be different in mechanics, but in aesthetics. I loved battling in the sky.

In addition, Inverse battles are kind of lazy on their part. It was something that was bound to come up, yes, but it's just not very creative. It's a cool idea, I will agree, but I don't think that it was very deep. In addition, the new battle chart is confusing and somewhat unbalanced. Grass, normal, ice and bug dominate more than Fairy & Steel in the standard meta (2 types I believe need a heavy nerf). The current type chart was designed for balance; inversing it makes things pretty broken.
 

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